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it's not about sexism. it's simply against the law.

i should actually amend my earlier statement to say that i talked to my dad about interviews in general (including job interviews) and i know that there are many more laws surrounding employment than, erm, med school admission. but anyway, check this out.
 
dw2158 said:
it's not about sexism. it's simply against the law.

i should actually amend my earlier statement to say that i talked to my dad about interviews in general (including job interviews) and i know that there are many more laws surrounding employment than, erm, med school admission. but anyway, check this out.
Click to expand...

Hmm, that link seems to fall apart for med school admissions on the first topic. I still think that if you state you want a family at some point during your interview, asking how you will balance family life with work is a legitimate question.
 
JimmerJammerMrK said:
Really? Because when one of my interviewers asked me where I saw myself in 10 years, I mentioned that I wanted a family. He asked me (even though I'm male) how I would balance family life and medicine. I think it's a very valid question.
Click to expand...

I think it's one thing when you, the interviewee, bring it up. IMO, once you touch upon it, it's fair game. It's another thing when we're talking about community service, then ask how I anticipate juggling being a mom and raising kids with my career, and then jump to medical ethics questions. That's just not normal conversation...

But, these "illegal" questions don't really bother me. I actually like interviewing...in a weird twisted way it amuses me.
 
PinkIvy08 said:
I think it's one thing when you, the interviewee, bring it up. IMO, once you touch upon it, it's fair game. It's another thing when we're talking about community service, then ask how I anticipate juggling being a mom and raising kids with my career, and then jump to medical ethics questions. That's just not normal conversation...

But, these "illegal" questions don't really bother me. I actually like interviewing...in a weird twisted way it amuses me.
Click to expand...

OK, fair enough. I agree that anything even remotely related to a topic you bring up is fair game.
 
dw2158 said:
it's not about sexism. it's simply against the law.

i should actually amend my earlier statement to say that i talked to my dad about interviews in general (including job interviews) and i know that there are many more laws surrounding employment than, erm, med school admission. but anyway, check this out.
Click to expand...


See, that's why I wasn't sure. I know it is totally illegal for job interviews. However, I don't know how or if medical school admissions interviews fit into the same category.
 
look, whether or not it's *actually* illegal, i find it incredibly off-putting to be asked about family, marriage, religion, or any of these taboo topics. maybe this is my hippie-town, women's college, social justice fellowship kinda background talking, but i find it disrespectful when someone assumes that my future spouse, future children, or religion would get in the way of my potential to do whatever the hell i want.
 
dw2158 said:
look, whether or not it's *actually* illegal, i find it incredibly off-putting to be asked about family, marriage, religion, or any of these taboo topics. maybe this is my hippie-town, women's college, social justice fellowship kinda background talking, but i find it disrespectful when someone assumes that my future spouse, future children, or religion would get in the way of my potential to do whatever the hell i want.
Click to expand...

I agree completely. I personally believe it's an inappropriate set of questioning on it's own. However, I can see how it could easily be an appropriate follow-up question. So in JJMrK's situation, I think it was a legitimate follow-up.
 
lstone13 said:
See, that's why I wasn't sure. I know it is totally illegal for job interviews. However, I don't know how or if medical school admissions interviews fit into the same category.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on this.

I seriously doubt if any law is violated with these questions for medical school.

If it is a law, somebody please provide a cite.

I think it is an especially inappropriate topic for female interviewees to be asked.
 
dw2158 said:
look, whether or not it's *actually* illegal, i find it incredibly off-putting to be asked about family, marriage, religion, or any of these taboo topics. maybe this is my hippie-town, women's college, social justice fellowship kinda background talking, but i find it disrespectful when someone assumes that my future spouse, future children, or religion would get in the way of my potential to do whatever the hell i want.
Click to expand...

See, I agree that religion and race and other things that only apply to a certain subset of the population should be kept out of the interview. But juggling family and marriage and work is something that everyone entering medicine has to consider, so I understand why that might be fair game; like JJ said, as a guy I still had to answer that question at some of my interviews.

I don't think by asking the question they are "assuming" anything; if they were assuming that it would get in the way, they would just outright tell you that you couldn't juggle family and work. However, I do think it's fair for them to at least see that you've put thought into how you're going to pull it off.
 
dw2158 said:
look, whether or not it's *actually* illegal, i find it incredibly off-putting to be asked about family, marriage, religion, or any of these taboo topics. maybe this is my hippie-town, women's college, social justice fellowship kinda background talking, but i find it disrespectful when someone assumes that my future spouse, future children, or religion would get in the way of my potential to do whatever the hell i want.
Click to expand...

lol - I love it!!!

My answer was basically that while I don't currently plan on getting married and/or raising children, if that so happened in the future I would make it work. Plain and simple. I have a good support network that would help with the children aspect, but regardless, I'd adjust and do what I have to in order to fulfill my desires and goals, blah blah blah. They seemed to appreciate my answer. But, who knows?
 
flip26 said:
I agree with you on this.

I seriously doubt if any law is violated with these questions for medical school.

If it is a law, somebody please provide a cite.

I think it is an especially inappropriate topic for female interviewees to be asked.
Click to expand...


So... I did a little research. Title IX may apply to medical school admissions, and if so, then those questions would be illegal.

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/cor/coord/titleixstat.php

What do you guys think? I can't tell if it does apply to medical schools because of the first exception.
 
lstone13 said:
I agree completely. I personally believe it's an inappropriate set of questioning on it's own. However, I can see how it could easily be an appropriate follow-up question. So in JJMrK's situation, I think it was a legitimate follow-up.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I see the difference now. Basically, if you don't want to talk about it make sure you don't bring it up. And if they ask you anyway, sorry. 🙁
 
GoSpursGo said:
But juggling family and marriage and work is something that everyone entering medicine has to consider, so I understand why that might be fair game; like JJ said, as a guy I still had to answer that question at some of my interviews.

I don't think by asking the question they are "assuming" anything; if they were assuming that it would get in the way, they would just outright tell you that you couldn't juggle family and work. However, I do think it's fair for them to at least see that you've put thought into how you're going to pull it off.
Click to expand...

No, it is not "fair game" or anything close to an equivalent question for men vs women.

Women bear the children, take the extended family leave, and shoulder the burden of the at home care for the younguns...

There is also the undercurrent of mistrust by med schools and employers beyond med school that women are more likely to "walk away" from a medical career than men once they get married and start having children, thus "wasting" the precious opportunity that was given to them...hence the laws that protect women from these kinds of questions when it is a job interview, but I don't believe there are any such protections for women in a school interview...
 
PinkIvy08 said:
lol - I love it!!!

My answer was basically that while I don't currently plan on getting married and/or raising children, if that so happened in the future I would make it work. Plain and simple. I have a good support network that would help with the children aspect, but regardless, I'd adjust and do what I have to in order to fulfill my desires and goals, blah blah blah. They seemed to appreciate my answer. But, who knows?
Click to expand...

I think that's a good answer.
 
this section shall apply only to institutions of vocational education, professional education, and graduate higher education, and to public institutions of undergraduate higher education;

It does apply.
 
GoSpursGo said:
See, I agree that religion and race and other things that only apply to a certain subset of the population should be kept out of the interview. But juggling family and marriage and work is something that everyone entering medicine has to consider, so I understand why that might be fair game; like JJ said, as a guy I still had to answer that question at some of my interviews.

I don't think by asking the question they are "assuming" anything; if they were assuming that it would get in the way, they would just outright tell you that you couldn't juggle family and work. However, I do think it's fair for them to at least see that you've put thought into how you're going to pull it off.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree. Even if by consider you've decided that at this point, you don't have plans to get married/have family. The trouble is that in some conservative parts of the country, a female applicant might be looked down upon for taking that stance. If they say where will you be in 10 years and you say with a family, then it's legit.
 
flip26 said:
No, it is not "fair game" or anything close to an equivalent question for men vs women.

Women bear the children, take the extended family leave, and shoulder the burden of the at home care for the younguns...

There is also the undercurrent of mistrust by med schools and employers beyond med school that women are more likely to "walk away" from a medical career than men once they get married and start having children, thus "wasting" the precious opportunity that was given to them...hence the laws that protect women from these kinds of questions when it is a job interview, but I don't believe there are any such protections for women in a school interview...
Click to expand...
I was asked about having a family... and I am a male...

I don't think that it is really something that is that huge of a deal. I mean, you guys realize that they have to inform the entire committee about their findings (and there are females on every adcom I've ever seen). It's not like "She wants to have babies" is going to make it into the report...
 
and for the record when I was asked about it I told them that I wanted to have a family and that having a family is one of the most important things to me. I mentioned that I know physicians with families and have talked with them about it and think it is totally doable. I don't buy into the "it's too hard". If you want to have a strong family and career you find the balance needed.
 
Caesar said:
this section shall apply only to institutions of vocational education, professional education, and graduate higher education, and to public institutions of undergraduate higher education;

It does apply.
Click to expand...

Well, I wasn't 100% sure because I didn't know if "this section" referred to the categorization of that line in the "exceptions" area or if it referred to Title IX as a whole or if it referred to the "Sex" area...
 
lstone13 said:
So... I did a little research. Title IX may apply to medical school admissions, and if so, then those questions would be illegal.

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/cor/coord/titleixstat.php

What do you guys think? I can't tell if it does apply to medical schools because of the first exception.
Click to expand...

Check out this link:

http://www.med-ed-online.org/res00063.htm

If you read far enough down the page, it lists as "illegal/inappropriate" questions about marital status and other schools you applied to, and according to the survey stats, very few schools asked these questions.

Which is not what many of you are reporting here.

For the record: I think any questions about where else you applied, or what your family plans are, or anything of that nature, are all inappropriate.
 
flip26 said:
No, it is not "fair game" or anything close to an equivalent question for men vs women.

Women bear the children, take the extended family leave, and shoulder the burden of the at home care for the younguns...

There is also the undercurrent of mistrust by med schools and employers beyond med school that women are more likely to "walk away" from a medical career than men once they get married and start having children, thus "wasting" the precious opportunity that was given to them...hence the laws that protect women from these kinds of questions when it is a job interview, but I don't believe there are any such protections for women in a school interview...
Click to expand...

I don't think we're going to agree here, so I don't want to belabor the point. Suffice to say, I didn't mean to imply that the question was equivalent for men and women, just that it is relevant for both. Once they start asking a woman how they would juggle taking time off to actually have the kids or whether they would leave medicine to become a full time stay at home mom, then I agree, a line has been crossed.
 
Caesar said:
ahhh.... It refers to "Sec. 1681. Sex"
Click to expand...

Edit: I forgot to reply to this quote! Thanks for clearing that up! Like I said, I wasn't sure, but that does make sense! 🙂

flip26 said:
Check out this link:

http://www.med-ed-online.org/res00063.htm

If you read far enough down the page, it lists as "illegal/inappropriate" questions about marital status and other schools you applied to, and according to the survey stats, very few schools asked these questions.

Which is not what many of you are reporting here.

For the record: I think any questions about where else you applied, or what your family plans are, or anything of that nature, are all inappropriate.
Click to expand...


Very interesting... Something tells me those schools weren't disclosing all the questions they asked accurately... Isn't there a name for that effect? Where survey participants give the socially acceptable answer, regardless of actual behavior or of anonymity?

And... I agree with those questions as inappropriate.
 
haha, aladdin, I remember that song. "I can show you the world. Shining shimmering splendor, tell me princess, yadadadadadada."
 
no, my desktop is connected to my brain, and my brain creates electricity.
 
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