class rank and gpa

[hematosis]

Two questions:

1. When applying for residency how important is class rank vs Overall GPA. Do residency programs look at both ? For example, say if your cGPA is 3.5 but your class rank is top 5% vs someone who has a 4.0 and is top 10%? who would be the more competitive applicant

2. How is the board part 1 graded? Specifically, i understand that there is a minimum passing score (74 or so) but is there a minimam for each section or is this an overall? So if you do poorly in one section can you make up for it in another section?

Thanks folks.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Ferocity]

I think residencies would look at both because all schools are not the same when it comes to GPA and rank.

But I thought if you went to a school where there are multiple students with a 4.0 wouldn't that mean they are all tied for the number 1 spot? I guess I'm unsure how that all works out at different schools. Myself and several other students finished our first year with a 4.0 and at that time we were all ranked number 1 in our class.

Wow, 4.0. That's impressive.

 

[hematosis]

I think residencies would look at both because all schools are not the same when it comes to GPA and rank.

But I thought if you went to a school where there are multiple students with a 4.0 wouldn't that mean they are all tied for the number 1 spot? I guess I'm unsure how that all works out at different schools. Myself and several other students finished our first year with a 4.0 and at that time we were all ranked number 1 in our class.

Ah i see. That makes sense.

 

[347932]

Don't be too impressed. That 4.0 is coming down this year. SCPM's new curriculum basically adds the old clinical courses students used to take during their 3rd year to the 2nd year. So I'm taking clinical courses right now and I haven't even completed all my basic science courses yet. So that gives me a total of 8 courses.

Oh and throw clinic in the mix as well. Plus I'm trying to complete my independent research study which is coming along at a snails pace right now.

Don't belittle your achievement. A 4.0 is still a 4.0. Congrats and well done!

 

[bobdolerson]

Don't belittle your achievement. A 4.0 is still a 4.0. Congrats and well done!

Seriously. Good job.

I'm a bit curious about this whole thing too. I keep being told by older students and faculty to not worry much about this until later and just do my best to keep the grades up, but it's hard not to worry with so much information to go through in so little time.

What's a competitive gpa/rank? Any sort of stats on residency spots filled compared to these, or the stats of people who didn't find a residency? I've got pretty good stats, and I'm assuming a lot of my residency opportunity/placement will be a result of the rotations and the impression I make then, but it would be nice to be able to think, "ah, just do well in rotations and you've got it" or the opposite.

 

[bobdolerson]

By the way, would you mind if I asked where you attend and whether they stagger grades for intermediates? i.e., is 89.5+ a 4.0?

I remember in undergrad it was frustrating to have a rough class and either get an 89, high A, whatever, and somebody with 7-8 points lower receiving the same grade. It definitely makes me work harder to get the 93+ my school requires for a 4.0, but I feel the grades are a lot more representative of the actual achievements.

 

[Adam Smasher]

I don't have a 4.0 but I'm in the upper-middle space of my class and I'm happy enough with what I've achieved. Will the valedictorian of my class make more money than me? Possibly. Will he or she make a lot more? I doubt it. Will he or she ultimately be happier than me? Who knows.

In my opinion, GPA and class rank are flawed measures of a student's quality. Unfortunately, it's the quickest and easiest way to evaluate someone so that's what they do.

Yes, there are people who honestly are brilliant and hardworking. There are also a lot of people who do things that are ethically dubious, who are only interested in learning something so long as it's on the test. By the way, I am not accusing anyone in this forum of anything, just stating what I see.

At the same time we have teachers who quiz us on minutiae. And so the examination process is basically a memorization contest, challenging more your sanity than your ability to think critically. I don't believe that's the make of a good doctor.

 

[347932]

I don't have a 4.0 but I'm in the upper-middle space of my class and I'm happy enough with what I've achieved. Will the valedictorian of my class make more money than me? Possibly. Will he or she make a lot more? I doubt it. Will he or she ultimately be happier than me? Who knows.

In my opinion, GPA and class rank are flawed measures of a student's quality. Unfortunately, it's the quickest and easiest way to evaluate someone so that's what they do.

Yes, there are people who honestly are brilliant and hardworking. There are also a lot of people who do things that are ethically dubious, who are only interested in learning something so long as it's on the test. By the way, I am not accusing anyone in this forum of anything, just stating what I see.

At the same time we have teachers who quiz us on minutiae. And so the examination process is basically a memorization contest, challenging more your sanity than your ability to think critically. I don't believe that's the make of a good doctor.

Agreed.

I've been thinking about this lately. I wonder what does make a good doctor. Thoughts?

 

[Adam Smasher]

Well said. What were your feelings of the P2 year? It's not terrible but I do question why we take podiatry specific clinical courses before we have even completed all of our basic science courses. You would never see that in a regular medical school curriculum. I also question why we do workshops during the year when they should have been completed the Summer before going into clinic. I still don't see the point of that.

My thoughts on P2 year? I don't think about it too much. It was too traumatic.

It never bothered me starting on clinical science classes before finishing Basic Science classes (i.e. Pharm and Path) because all the clinical science classes are basically Path anyway.

You take derm which is a more in-depth dermatologic pathology class. You take PVD which is a more in-depth vascular pathology class. Neurology is a more in-depth neurologic pathology class. Once you get past the technical part of Radiology (Compton's scattering, T1 vs T2 imaging, etc) it's basically skeletal pathology. Notice a pattern?

I agree that it is silly for us to have a lazy summer P1 year and then P2 is hellacious. Believe it or not though, it prepared me well for APMLE I.

Would I do it again?

 

[hematosis]

Any stud muffin know the answer to the 2nd part of my question?

 

[ldsrmdude]

Any stud muffin know the answer to the 2nd part of my question?

The test is graded as a whole, but if you fail you get a break-down that shows which sections you did poorly on so that you can study those sections. That's one reason it is a good idea to know lower extremity anatomy as well as possible because if you got all those questions (20% of the test) it would make up for a lot of questions you didn't know. Of course, knowing anatomy is important in just about everything you do for the rest of your career too, and now is a good time to learn it.

 

[DaneMonaghan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCjTUuNlu0M

 

[AZ25]

Any stud muffin know the answer to the 2nd part of my question?

"The criterion-referenced method approved by the National Board to determine passing scores for each of the Part I and Part II examinations was noted by William H. Angoff in 1971. The Angoff method is based on the idea that, since qualified persons should pass the examination while unqualified persons should fail, the candidate who scores exactly at the pass/fail point should be one whose level of knowledge is at the borderline between qualified and unqualified. This distinction between qualified and unqualified candidates is provided by convening a panel of judges, who represent a cross section of podiatric practice in the United States, to participate in a systematic cut-score study. The judges consider each question as a whole and make a judgment of the probability that a borderline candidate would answer the question correctly. Adding these probabilities for all questions yields the expected number of correct answers for the borderline, or minimally competent, practitioner. The National Board decides the passing scores for the Part I Basic Science examination and the Part II Clinical Science examination."

Everyone can pass or everyone can fail. Unlike some people will tell you, they do not just randomly decide to fail the bottom 15% of the students each year. It's important to get easy questions correct and it's somewhat alright to get the really difficult questions wrong. There is also some confusion about what happens with failing boards. Though you might think the difference between a 75% (passing) and a 74% (failing) is one or two questions you would be wrong. There can be a huge difference between one percent when it gets near the passing score. The difference between a 75% and a 74% could be 12 questions. Many people who fail by 1% think they barely missed passing, though they likely missed passing by several questions.