Clinical experience: does this count?

[ClickityClack]

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I'm trying to come to terms with my lack of clinical experience.

(Disclaimer: I WILL be adding more over spring semester. My "ah-ha!" moment came very late...)

I'm applying this summer, but, so far, I only have some shadowing experience and 50 hours in a dental clinic. (I used to like dentistry.)
I wasn't a medic. I was a tank gunner. But, I did the following:

-I helped give catheters to old men in Macedonian villages; guys with swollen prostates...-
-Helped my first gunshot victim when I was 19 (left shoulder, single entry and exit, AK-47) pressure dressing, ran an IV, helped load litter onto helo
-Responsible for caring for a crewmember with frostbitten toes (they later fell off)
-Helped care for my friend, stabbed in the stomach in a bar fight (helped with bandaging, getting him dressed, out of bed, medication, day to day stuff)
-Helped render first-aid to a child who's cheek was ripped off by a dog, in Kosovo
-Helped deliver a baby (yes, seriously), also in Kosovo
(hospital wouldn't let her inside, she "chose the wrong religion")
-Rendered first-aid to a soldier with a compound fracture in the upper arm
-helped an old guy, who's eye had been punctured by the goat he was living with
(he'd been kicked out of his house, was living in the goat shed)
gangrenous, unfortunately
-taught Combat Lifesaver courses to over 300 soldiers, over a 6 year period
-gave IV's to my guys when they were dehydrated in Iraq
-helped my unit with the medical supply needs for various villages in various countries
-helped clean up the mess after IEDs
-helped in the evac of a platoon member, who's foot had been blown off
-helped at a mass burial site in Macedonia
-helped in the extraction of dead/wounded soldiers and civilians in various combat theatres

This stuff has to count for something. Seriously, I'm tired of listening to the pampered kids on here, with their "1.5 years" of experience, folding towels and answering phones.
What I'm wondering, though, is if adcoms will think I'm blowing the proverbial smoke up their asses.



They say clinical experience means being close enough to smell the patients. Well, what about the ones that smell like barbecued crap, because their colon exploded in the fire?
Is it gonna matter, if I walked around with brain matter on my boot for a month, hoping it'd fall off by itself so I wouldn't have to touch it?

 

[avksx]

Kosovo?


You're an old-timer. haha.


I don't think you could quantify it as clinical experience, but it would definitely count as a considerable life experience. In your personal statement and interviews include stories of how your experiences influenced you to want to become a doctor or how they shaped you into the person you are today.

 

[ClickityClack]

Explain to me why it's not clinical experience. Before I choke you through the interweb for calling me old.


I'm running into people all the time, claiming clinical experience for answering phones at the ped's office.
I've stopped arterial bleeding. How is that NOT clinical experience?

 

[avksx]

Explain to me why it's not clinical experience. Before I choke you through the interweb for calling me old.

Because there was nothing clinical about it. You've seen death, disease, and injury first hand, in ways most people haven't, but in the end it wasn't in a CLINICAL environment. It was in a military environment. That doesn't make it any less valuable of an experience, but it doesn't fall within the "clinical" aspect of "clinical experience".

If you were an attending or an orderly in a military clinic, that would definitely count, but you were a tank gunner doing his duty, and that duty didn't involve clinics. Again, it's probably a big part of who you are, but it just isn't "clinical".

 

[ClickityClack]

I see. Splinting a compound fracture means nothing, since we weren't inside an actual hospital.

Lavaging a cheek laceration, using radio instructions from the base physicians doesn't matter, because they weren't actually there.

And even though I've had the same training as combat medics, civilian EMT-B's and I's, I was simply a tank gunner doing his duty.

There are EMT's on here that have extracted people out of cars. I've extracted people out of tanks and Bradleys. I've ran IV's (an EMT-B can't), prepared and placed dressings, administered oxygen, stopped bleeding, placed patients on litters, secured them for mobilization...

EMT's are taught to place a cup over an eye before bandaging it, in case of protruding materials. I've done that.
You're gonna tell me that running a cath up some old dude's weener is simply "life experience"?

 

[ClickityClack]

What exactly do you do in these "clinical experiences", that's different from what I've done?

Watch an MD go through the ABC's? Stand out of the way while nurses give tetanus shots? Dip plaster wraps in water, so someone else can place them? Watch a surgical procedure from 10 feet away, without a clue of what's happening?

What part of "helped my first gunshot victim" is not clinical? I stopped bleeding with my hands and a field dressing, but it doesn't matter because no one was wearing scrubs?

 

[Dr McSexy]

Cool, put it as your clinical experience, life experience, bad ass experience or whatever you want to put it as.

Now, what have you learned (whether it be through things mentioned above or through other experiences) about the medical profession? Did those experiences help affirm your decision to make medicine your career choice and life? Did you learn what it is to be a doctor? Is there anything else you can add to this?

I would think that these are far more important than what you choose to label your experiences as.

 

[halekulani]

nm

 

[halekulani]

I see. Splinting a compound fracture means nothing, since we weren't inside an actual hospital.

Lavaging a cheek laceration, using radio instructions from the base physicians doesn't matter, because they weren't actually there.

And even though I've had the same training as combat medics, civilian EMT-B's and I's, I was simply a tank gunner doing his duty.

There are EMT's on here that have extracted people out of cars. I've extracted people out of tanks and Bradleys. I've ran IV's (an EMT-B can't), prepared and placed dressings, administered oxygen, stopped bleeding, placed patients on litters, secured them for mobilization...

EMT's are taught to place a cup over an eye before bandaging it, in case of protruding materials. I've done that.
You're gonna tell me that running a cath up some old dude's weener is simply "life experience"?

it's not "clinical" as understood by adcoms.

clinical skills != clinical experience
they don't care what you can do in the field. that's exactly why you're applying to medical school. they will train you the way they want you to learn it and same for residency.
they want to know whether you know what it is like to work in a hospital or private practice setting. they want to know if you know what you've signed up for.

nobody is saying your experiences are worthless. they are significant if you can write about it. just don't confuse clinical skills with clinical experiences and don't get upset or offended because your definition does not correspond with what is expected. what you think "clinical" means is irrelevant. you need to do exactly what is expected of you rather than waste time trying to interpret why your opinion doesn't matter. go volunteer in a hospital. it's easier than going to class.

 

[halekulani]

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[halekulani]

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[halekulani]

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[halekulani]

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[halekulani]

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[halekulani]

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[halekulani]

sorry for the mass spam
browser being ******ed.

 

[ClickityClack]

.

 

[Dr McSexy]

Caffeine?

 

[Dr McSexy]

It taught me that there'll always be someone there to call you a pretentious "bad ass" for asserting yourself, simply for the sake of competition.

Someone's getting a little defensive it seems. I was merely trying convey that the main point is not the label you give the experiences, but what you take from them.

Though, that's a statement in itself as you are aware that that are many people who mainly "answer phones and fold towels" in the pursuit of the golden number of "clinical" hours to put on their application.

I just want to know where to quantify it, and if adcoms share the same sentiments as the person above.

I have a feeling most people on this board will tell you no and that what you have done doesn't equal clinical hours. Or at least doesn't quantify as such.

But in reality, what are you going to do about? If someone on this board tells you than you can quantify it and that these are true clinical experiences, are you not going to commit to volunteering in the spring? If someone tells you that these won't count as clinical hours whatsoever, are you going to delay applying just to get more "clinical" experience in?

In the end, it's not going to matter what a bunch of pre-meds, medical students, and even a few adcoms say in this thread because all that's going to matter is what you have to say about the collective experiences in your PS, on your AMCAS, or in the interviews with the actual human adcoms who will be evaluating you.

So, maybe I just don't understand what you want people to give you advice on.

Are you looking for a way to spin and justify these experiences into near-clinical experiences to make up for your lack of traditional clinical experiences? Or are you actually looking for a way to quantify these for the AMCAS?

 

[ClickityClack]

Very much caffeine. Got an A+ in Ochem, and I'm freaking out for lack of something to freak out about.

I'm so god-awful tired of the smugness of my local pre-med community. So many sons and daughters of physicians. Kids who's shoes have rarely seen mud, but they're rarely reluctant to remind you that yours have.
They've had years to accumulate experience and volunteer hours.
I just realized a couple of years ago, that I was as capable as them. I'm trying to show that I haven't been lazy in that process.


As to your question, the latter.
I know it's not traditional experience. That goes without saying.
Stand in line, do the time. Flip sheets, etc, pretend it mattered, the time-honored process... I'm in that stage, however late.
I'd just like to know if the experience I DO have will be acknowledged, or if I'll be seen as a country bumpkin vainly struggling to be respected for time spent outside the "cultured" norm.

 

[ClickityClack]

In two years, I've gone from embodiment of a redneck joke to "the example of what an Honors student should be" (according to the department chair).

My family's disowned me, for my lack of criminal record/trucker hat collection. I don't fit into any social circles. I've spent years to just get to everyone else's starting point. I'd like to think that it matters, somehow.

I'm gonna put in the hospital hours. Believe me.
I just don't want to stand before some dude in a tweed jacket that doesn't give a crap because I haven't put in the hours that his kid would have.

 

[halekulani]

I'd just like to know if the experience I DO have will be acknowledged

uh
that's what the amcas section is for
that's why you write a personal statement
that's why you write an in-depth explanation about your activities

if they didn't care about it, why would they ask you to write about these things in the first place?

did you have a real question or is this one of those posts where you ask a question but you're just waiting for someone to say what you want to hear?

you're not more worthy of a candidate because you have X clinical skills, and your X clinical skills do not make up for the lack of hospital hours. yes your experiences count for something, but did you really need to make a thread to tell you that?

if you ever do get an interview, the dude in the tweed jacket could have picked anyone else to interview but he picked you. it's your turn to live up to what he has read about. he's giving you an opportunity to prove to him in person what you're about. you could at least change your attitude and reciprocate that same respect rather than focusing on a negative presumptive scenario.

everyone loves a good rags to riches story, but they don't need a negative nancy, hey look at the chip on my shoulder kind of attitude.

 

[Catalystik]

I was a tank gunner. But, I did the following:

-I helped give catheters to old men in Macedonian villages; guys with swollen prostates...-
-Helped my first gunshot victim when I was 19 (left shoulder, single entry and exit, AK-47) pressure dressing, ran an IV, helped load litter onto helo
-Responsible for caring for a crewmember with frostbitten toes (they later fell off)
-Helped care for my friend, stabbed in the stomach in a bar fight (helped with bandaging, getting him dressed, out of bed, medication, day to day stuff)
-Helped render first-aid to a child who's cheek was ripped off by a dog, in Kosovo
-Helped deliver a baby (yes, seriously), also in Kosovo
(hospital wouldn't let her inside, she "chose the wrong religion")
-Rendered first-aid to a soldier with a compound fracture in the upper arm
-helped an old guy, who's eye had been punctured by the goat he was living with
(he'd been kicked out of his house, was living in the goat shed)
gangrenous, unfortunately
-taught Combat Lifesaver courses to over 300 soldiers, over a 6 year period
-gave IV's to my guys when they were dehydrated in Iraq
-helped my unit with the medical supply needs for various villages in various countries
-helped clean up the mess after IEDs
-helped in the evac of a platoon member, who's foot had been blown off
-helped at a mass burial site in Macedonia
-helped in the extraction of dead/wounded soldiers and civilians in various combat theatres

This stuff has to count for something.

Here's the first half of your Personal Statement. It shows you have compassion and responsibility, and underlying altruism. And it's not boring (huge points there). With the second half, detail how you were drawn to medicine as a career and how you explored your fitness for it (and lose the dental shadowing). Try not to mention job stability and good income. Your shadowing will show you know what day-to-day life as a US-based doc is all about with its documentation requirements, insurance issues, malpractice woes, ungrateful, demanding patients, and frankly occasional boredom, along with rare life saving or diagnostic coupes. Volunteering in a hospital shows you've experienced a US clinical environment and feel comfortable there, that you know about HIPAA laws and good handwashing.

You're almost there, and if your numbers are as good as you've alluded to, you'll do great in the application process. Please try to conceal any bitterness and impatience with the system during your interviews so you don't screw it up. Be nice. Play the game.

 

[LizzyM]

Here's the first half of your Personal Statement. It shows you have compassion and responsibility, and underlying altruism. And it's not boring (huge points there). With the second half, detail how you were drawn to medicine as a career and how you explored your fitness for it (and lose the dental shadowing). Try not to mention job stability and good income. Your shadowing will show you know what day-to-day life as a US-based doc is all about with its documentation requirements, insurance issues, malpractice woes, ungrateful, demanding patients, and frankly occasional boredom, along with rare life saving or diagnostic coupes. Volunteering in a hospital shows you've experienced a US clinical environment and feel comfortable there, that you know about HIIPA laws and good handwashing.

You're almost there, and if your numbers are as good as you've alluded to, you'll do great in the application process. Please try to conceal any bitterness and impatience with the system during your interviews so you don't screw it up. Be nice. Play the game.

Finally, a statement I can endorse. This is a good start of a personal statement. HOWEVER, there is nothing wrong with dental shadowing and it is good to be able to discuss other careers considered and why medicine was chosen.

OP, good luck to you.

 

[7starmantis]

I'm in the minority here I guess. While I do think your freaking out a bit and could be described (via the previous poster) as a negative Nancy, I think I can relate to you situation and feelings a bit. As to the experience I think it absolutely matters and will make your application stand out, way out, from the crowd, that is if you write your personal statement correctly and include all of this in your app in a positive way.

I also think it does qualify as clinical experience. No it doesn't take the place of shadowing or something like that, but you have experiences very few if any applicants will have. Make the most of it. Stop worrying about what others think or say and just run your own race, and fulfill your own goals.

If you get even a small amount of clinical (shadowing, scribe, etc) and non-med volunteer along with a decent MCAT and decent GPA....your getting interviews. Thats just my own opinion, but then how you act in the interview could be the deciding factor between acceptances and rejections. I think your experiences have you poised to have amazing success in the application cycle, you just have to articulate it, do a tad bit more and your there, I think.
How are your stats?

Edit: Those kind of experiences are what people like and want to ask you about in person (interview). I got asked in each interview about a survival experience I wrote about in one part.

 

[avksx]

Nobody actually listens to whats being said, everyone's just waiting for their turn to speak.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

OP, I think you'd have gotten much better advice here if you hadn't started out with "Seriously, I'm tired of listening to the pampered kids on here, with their "1.5 years" of experience, folding towels and answering phones." Did you really insult people here and ask for their advice in the same post?? And then you expected good advice?? Sheesh.

I agree that you should definitely write about these experiences in your PS. They will probably make for a great interview topic, too. However, I do think there is a difference between doing military first aid because you HAD to (not because you were trained to, it sounds, but correct me if you did have training) and the sort of clinical experience in a clinical environment that adcoms are generally looking for. Now you tell me, are your experiences any less valuable to you because you may not be able to quantify it and put it down in the correct box on AMCAS? I sure hope not. Get some clinical experience in the US, because I'm sure you are well aware that military medicine is VASTLY different from American hospitals and clinics, and you are applying to be a doctor who has qualifications to work in an American hospital/clinic. So you do need to have some quantifiable experience in clinical medicine in the US, as I'm sure you know.

Lastly, I would definitely put down your Combat Lifesaving courses in the "teaching" section. That is something that you can, and should, quantify and put down.

 

[FIREitUP]

maybe it's just me, but i think the classification of a clinical experience is a bit arbitrary. this experience sounds like a rich one, and pretty much dwarfs those that others have had. It demonstrates your ability to think on your feet, compassion, team work, etc., etc.

 

[avksx]

maybe it's just me, but i think the classification of a clinical experience is a bit arbitrary. this experience sounds like a rich one, and pretty much dwarfs those that others have had. It demonstrates your ability to think on your feet, compassion, team work, etc., etc.

So you're saying that clinical experience is any life experience that you've had that remotely demonstrates your virtues as it applies to the subject?

 

[FIREitUP]

So you're saying that clinical experience is any life experience that you've had that remotely demonstrates your virtues as it applies to the subject?

I'm saying that his experience involves providing medical care and exhibits excellent character traits. Just because it's not clinical per se doesn't mean it's not useful. I would say this experience is much more valuable than what some others consider a "clinical" experience.

 

[ClickityClack]

Okay, good things. I can use that.

I know the negativity spoils sthings. Developing a different perspective isn't immediate, though. You can only put so much faith in random comments from instructors and your own belief in your competitiveness.

The military medical training wasn't entirely required, Zelda Fan. Initially, yes. Blowing things up gets old pretty quick, so I volunteered for medical training. I was side by side with the medics, and eventually they let me teach the other guys.
They used to require an enlisted guy to help in the PA's troop clinic (they're always short on staff). I volunteered for it, consistently, to the detriment of my career (labels you as lazy/weird/ possibly gay). Some guys thought I just liked watching the STD swabbing...
That's why they didn't mind putting me on so much body removal detail...
I digress.


I guess it falls on me to mention these things in the best manner possible, then. Wish I could find a class in writing personal statements. I need tools for this stuff. Like "exploring my fitness" for medicine. Where do you guys find those nuggets o' awesome, when I've surpassed my support system's ability?



The tweed-clad interviewer, Halekulani... I had no idea of that perspective. Yes, I absolutely needed to be told that. Thank you. Care to drive that point home?
You seem to be comfortable with it. It scares me worse than a guy with a rifle, though. It's the silence that bothers me... what they may be thinking, etc. A dude with an RPG, you know where you stand with him. `


My stats aren't the greatest, 7starmantis.
cGPA~ 3.62
(Got a C, initially, in Ochem. Knocked me down from a 3.75. Just retook it for an A+)
B's here and there, but all A's over the last semester (18 hrs) for an upward trend.

-not sure of science GPA
-taking MCAT in May
-meager research in animal genetics (a semester)
-200+ hrs, Big Brother Big Sister
-40 hrs, cleaning storm drains, environmental stuff
-40 hrs, departmental Animal Research lab assistant
-TA'd a class in my freshman year (just engineering stuff)
-tutoring (chemistry, biology, others)
-just helped form a departmental Peer Mentoring group, specializing in helping non-trads
-founding a Veteran's Support organization (very excited about this...) in cooperation with university
counseling, local VA, local support services. Offering tutoring, events, fellowship, counseling,
etc.
-founding member of Sigma Alpha Pi chapter (leadership based group), Community Involvement Chair
-Community Service Coordinator for USNDA (pre-dental club)
-treasurer, MANRRS (agricultural club)
-various road clean-ups, minor things, Community Event Planning, Habitat for Humanity, YMCA, etc.
-University Honors, PKP, ALD, AC, SAP, honors in major, etc.
-Who's Who (twice nominated, once from Honors department) (Does this even matter?)


Sounds weak, I know. But, I'm doing more and more, each year. I wish I had another year to really prove what I can do.

 

[JJMrK]

Very much caffeine. Got an A+ in Ochem, and I'm freaking out for lack of something to freak out about.

I'm so god-awful tired of the smugness of my local pre-med community. So many sons and daughters of physicians. Kids who's shoes have rarely seen mud, but they're rarely reluctant to remind you that yours have.
They've had years to accumulate experience and volunteer hours.
I just realized a couple of years ago, that I was as capable as them. I'm trying to show that I haven't been lazy in that process.


As to your question, the latter.
I know it's not traditional experience. That goes without saying.
Stand in line, do the time. Flip sheets, etc, pretend it mattered, the time-honored process... I'm in that stage, however late.
I'd just like to know if the experience I DO have will be acknowledged, or if I'll be seen as a country bumpkin vainly struggling to be respected for time spent outside the "cultured" norm.

From what I've seen from going to interviews, many adcoms are really impressed with military service, especially if you have a good story to go with it.

It doesn't count for anything, but I'm impressed. Thanks for your service, OP. 👍

EDIT: I wanted to clarify here. I didn't meant that it doesn't count for anything in terms of medical school admissions, just that my being impressed doesn't count for anything. I do think it will help you in the application process.

In two years, I've gone from embodiment of a redneck joke to "the example of what an Honors student should be" (according to the department chair).

My family's disowned me, for my lack of criminal record/trucker hat collection. I don't fit into any social circles. I've spent years to just get to everyone else's starting point. I'd like to think that it matters, somehow.

I'm gonna put in the hospital hours. Believe me.
I just don't want to stand before some dude in a tweed jacket that doesn't give a crap because I haven't put in the hours that his kid would have.

This could be a problem. You have to at least make an effort to in your interviews.

 

[LizzyM]

I think that what you have is quite good. Play up the VA, too, because every medical school, IIRC, has affiliations with a VA and if you understand and have had experience with that population and enjoyed it, you may find that it will work in your favor.



For all you doubters out there: how is what the OP did different from the EMT-B work that so many people seem to think is a great cinical experience?

 

[7starmantis]

Sounds weak, I know. But, I'm doing more and more, each year. I wish I had another year to really prove what I can do.

Doesn't sound weak at all, just dont talk it down in your application. Sure you could use more clinical experience and even some non-med volunteer, but honestly, I think your app is pretty descent. You couple that with an above average MCAT and I think you got yourself a good application.

Just change your attitude and spend time finding and articulating the positives of everything you have mentioned and your on your way man.

Also, thanks for your service to our country!!

 

[Catalystik]

I'd agree that the VA support combined with a leadership role is golden. You have an abundance of nonmedical community service. The teaching/tutoring are great. You have at least some research. Your clinical patient experience is extraordinary. You can easily get the clinical environment experience and shadowing you need before application time in the six months before June.

 

[FIREitUP]

I think that what you have is quite good. Play up the VA, too, because every medical school, IIRC, has affiliations with a VA and if you understand and have had experience with that population and enjoyed it, you may find that it will work in your favor.



For all you doubters out there: how is what the OP did different from the EMT-B work that so many people seem to think is a great cinical experience?

i think it's a more in dept activity than EMT-B, which sometimes serve as glorified taxis drivers. i think it's a great activity and it is very relevant to the medical field.

 

[halekulani]

For all you doubters out there: how is what the OP did different from the EMT-B work that so many people seem to think is a great cinical experience?

nobody is doubting his skills. i did EMT-B, but it didn't stop me from volunteering. i also didn't think i was better than someone else because i had X exposure. being able to do combat medicine is cool. thinking you're better than a pre-med whose only exposure is volunteer/shadow experience is not cool.

i just don't see the objective of his posts other than wanting a pat on the back. his experiences are highly unique and valuable. his entire PS is setup for him. but to come here and act like a victim? please. get some balls and grow up so you can realize your own self worth.

 

[298609]

Okay, good things. I can use that.

I know the negativity spoils sthings. Developing a different perspective isn't immediate, though. You can only put so much faith in random comments from instructors and your own belief in your competitiveness.

The military medical training wasn't entirely required, Zelda Fan. Initially, yes. Blowing things up gets old pretty quick, so I volunteered for medical training. I was side by side with the medics, and eventually they let me teach the other guys.
They used to require an enlisted guy to help in the PA's troop clinic (they're always short on staff). I volunteered for it, consistently, to the detriment of my career (labels you as lazy/weird/ possibly gay). Some guys thought I just liked watching the STD swabbing...
That's why they didn't mind putting me on so much body removal detail...
I digress.


I guess it falls on me to mention these things in the best manner possible, then. Wish I could find a class in writing personal statements. I need tools for this stuff. Like "exploring my fitness" for medicine. Where do you guys find those nuggets o' awesome, when I've surpassed my support system's ability?



The tweed-clad interviewer, Halekulani... I had no idea of that perspective. Yes, I absolutely needed to be told that. Thank you. Care to drive that point home?
You seem to be comfortable with it. It scares me worse than a guy with a rifle, though. It's the silence that bothers me... what they may be thinking, etc. A dude with an RPG, you know where you stand with him. `


My stats aren't the greatest, 7starmantis.
cGPA~ 3.62
(Got a C, initially, in Ochem. Knocked me down from a 3.75. Just retook it for an A+)
B's here and there, but all A's over the last semester (18 hrs) for an upward trend.

-not sure of science GPA
-taking MCAT in May
-meager research in animal genetics (a semester)
-200+ hrs, Big Brother Big Sister
-40 hrs, cleaning storm drains, environmental stuff
-40 hrs, departmental Animal Research lab assistant
-TA'd a class in my freshman year (just engineering stuff)
-tutoring (chemistry, biology, others)
-just helped form a departmental Peer Mentoring group, specializing in helping non-trads
-founding a Veteran's Support organization (very excited about this...) in cooperation with university
counseling, local VA, local support services. Offering tutoring, events, fellowship, counseling,
etc.
-founding member of Sigma Alpha Pi chapter (leadership based group), Community Involvement Chair
-Community Service Coordinator for USNDA (pre-dental club)
-treasurer, MANRRS (agricultural club)
-various road clean-ups, minor things, Community Event Planning, Habitat for Humanity, YMCA, etc.
-University Honors, PKP, ALD, AC, SAP, honors in major, etc.
-Who's Who (twice nominated, once from Honors department) (Does this even matter?)


Sounds weak, I know. But, I'm doing more and more, each year. I wish I had another year to really prove what I can do.

thank you for your service. couldn't say it enough if i tried.

you sound like you are on the right track. i agree with one of the other posters who mentioned to try to conceal any annoyance with the premed/med society at large in your application/interview. i'm sure you know this, but all the physicians who are giving you your chance at your goal were once premeds. some of them were jerks and still might be. we have to pretend we still like them, or at least respect them.

just as a side question, i don't think this was mentioned, but do you plan on working in a veteran's hospital? i've actually thought about this for when i actually get there...



anyway the main advice i could offer is:
don't let yourself be discouraged by this forum or your peers who want to become physicians. most of them view life as a huge pissing contest. sit back, focus on your own goals, and try not to get sprayed.

🙂

 

[TheMightySmiter]

The military medical training wasn't entirely required, Zelda Fan. Initially, yes. Blowing things up gets old pretty quick, so I volunteered for medical training. I was side by side with the medics, and eventually they let me teach the other guys.
They used to require an enlisted guy to help in the PA's troop clinic (they're always short on staff). I volunteered for it, consistently, to the detriment of my career (labels you as lazy/weird/ possibly gay). Some guys thought I just liked watching the STD swabbing...
That's why they didn't mind putting me on so much body removal detail...
I digress

This seems like something you can definitely put down as clinical experience. Did you have a title/can you make one up that sounds legit? From what you wrote in your initial post it sounded like you just sort of randomly did all those things, but if you were actually assigned to a medical unit (even as an enlisted guy) I think it's definitely clinical experience.

Your other ECs sound great and your GPA is good, so I don't know why you're so down on yourself! Seems to me like the #1 thing you need to learn how to do is figure out how to talk about yourself in an endearing and non-confrontational way, lol. 😉

As far as writing your PS is concerned, do you have an English prof or teacher who you can still ask for help? Or even the writing center if you're still in school. Someone like that should be able to point you in the right direction towards organizing and solidifying your thoughts into an essay.

 

[ClickityClack]

No, I'm hoping to not go back to a VA hospital in any capacity, except for finding counseling services for my organization.
Their lack of funding is upsetting. Indicative of so many things.

I want to find my way back to Eastern Europe.
Maybe settle down in Poland or northern Czech, afterward. Maybe buy an old farmhouse.
Close enough to run short clinics in the Baltics, but still retain some degree of stability and safety for a family.
Live out my own version of The Dressing Station.
Have any of you read that?
I'd really like to talk to someone that's doing that sort of thing, sometime. It'd be nice to have a comrade with the same interests.



A Technical Writing professor that I had once said that she'd review my PS. I think I'll take her up on it. She wrote fiction when she was younger. Hopefully she can put a positive spin on things.
What about those services that people hire for reviewing their statements? I've heard good things about them.





The word "balls" just erased everything I ever remember you saying, Halekulani. I'm now just picturing an anthropomorphic scrotum in a short coat.
Self-worth is earned, not declared.

 

[Siggy]

For all you doubters out there: how is what the OP did different from the EMT-B work that so many people seem to think is a great cinical experience?

EMT-B is completely how you sell it. If you go along the lines of "look at all the interventions I can do" then EMT-B is just as terrible as the long list of interventions that the OP listed at the start of the thread. No one cares (at any level) about starting IVs, patching people up, and all that jazz about interventions (especially since EMT-B is so limited on available interventions). What I think can be sold about EMT-B (and, potentially the OP's experience if he gets past listing out all the skills he did) is interprofessional interactions (e.g. working with RNs and RTs on) and the general state of health care (for example, and excuse my bluntness, but the piss poor condition of a lot of nursing homes and long term care in general).

 

[JonathanMD]

To the OP:

Instead of the thread title being, "Is this clinical experience?" it sounds like it should be "This is clinical experience. Prove me wrong. I dare you." And you're just looking to pick a fight.

Either way, yes, I'd consider it clinical experience.

 

[ClickityClack]

If you go along the lines of "look at all the interventions I can do" then EMT-B is just as terrible as the long list of interventions that the OP listed

Exactly!

I don't want to list item after item, or I'll come across as a pretentious bore. I'd like to mention only enough that it spurs a conversation, but with the majority of the mention toward clinical experience being traditional pre-med stuff.
Talk about what it's taught me, how I've grown, my potential, undergrad challenges, exploring other areas to find exactly what I want, etc, and finish with flat-out begging.



I'll let everyone else talk about the state of health care in the nation.


Okay, thank you!
I'd like to be out of the spotlight, now.
Crisis is over. Thanks for all the help!

 

[Old Grunt]

I'm trying to come to terms with my lack of clinical experience.

(Disclaimer: I WILL be adding more over spring semester. My "ah-ha!" moment came very late...)

I'm applying this summer, but, so far, I only have some shadowing experience and 50 hours in a dental clinic. (I used to like dentistry.)
I wasn't a medic. I was a tank gunner. But, I did the following:

-I helped give catheters to old men in Macedonian villages; guys with swollen prostates...-
-Helped my first gunshot victim when I was 19 (left shoulder, single entry and exit, AK-47) pressure dressing, ran an IV, helped load litter onto helo
-Responsible for caring for a crewmember with frostbitten toes (they later fell off)
-Helped care for my friend, stabbed in the stomach in a bar fight (helped with bandaging, getting him dressed, out of bed, medication, day to day stuff)
-Helped render first-aid to a child who's cheek was ripped off by a dog, in Kosovo
-Helped deliver a baby (yes, seriously), also in Kosovo
(hospital wouldn't let her inside, she "chose the wrong religion")
-Rendered first-aid to a soldier with a compound fracture in the upper arm
-helped an old guy, who's eye had been punctured by the goat he was living with
(he'd been kicked out of his house, was living in the goat shed)
gangrenous, unfortunately
-taught Combat Lifesaver courses to over 300 soldiers, over a 6 year period
-gave IV's to my guys when they were dehydrated in Iraq
-helped my unit with the medical supply needs for various villages in various countries
-helped clean up the mess after IEDs
-helped in the evac of a platoon member, who's foot had been blown off
-helped at a mass burial site in Macedonia
-helped in the extraction of dead/wounded soldiers and civilians in various combat theatres

Why did you waste your time posting this in the pre-allo forum?

This stuff has to count for something. Seriously, I'm tired of listening to the pampered kids on here, with their "1.5 years" of experience, folding towels and answering phones.
What I'm wondering, though, is if adcoms will think I'm blowing the proverbial smoke up their asses.

That is, other than to insult traditional applicants medical experience as contrasted to your real world experience?

 

[Old Grunt]

Cool, put it as your clinical experience, life experience, bad ass experience or whatever you want to put it as.

Now, what have you learned (whether it be through things mentioned above or through other experiences) about the medical profession? Did those experiences help affirm your decision to make medicine your career choice and life? Did you learn what it is to be a doctor? Is there anything else you can add to this?

I would think that these are far more important than what you choose to label your experiences as.

What he said.

 

[Old Grunt]

Nobody actually listens to whats being said, everyone's just waiting for their turn to speak.

"No one wants advice, only corroboration."

- Steinbeck

 

[murfettie]

i have a small crisis like you from time to time too, social circle stuff...
it's a little stressful when I have nothing else to be stressed out about.

 

[Paramedic2DocMD]

EMT-B is completely how you sell it. If you go along the lines of "look at all the interventions I can do" then EMT-B is just as terrible as the long list of interventions that the OP listed at the start of the thread. No one cares (at any level) about starting IVs, patching people up, and all that jazz about interventions (especially since EMT-B is so limited on available interventions). What I think can be sold about EMT-B (and, potentially the OP's experience if he gets past listing out all the skills he did) is interprofessional interactions (e.g. working with RNs and RTs on) and the general state of health care (for example, and excuse my bluntness, but the piss poor condition of a lot of nursing homes and long term care in general).

Well to emt-b credit it depends on the place you serve an to discredit them in no real experience based on lack of skills or the fact we supposedly live never never land where nothing bad happens is unfair. Terrible things happen on the daily basis SIDS baby, gun shots,stabbing, dead burned body, mvcs, abuse neglect children an elderly, rape, I could go on. Skill wise im medic emt-p an in most states, mine in particular we have a great deal of skills the nurses have including some they don't perform. I not saying anything other than we all do alot and we are the sum our experiences and to discount others experience would be better time spent on our and conveying those to the med school through our personal statement. I can understand its blow that sometimes things we have don't count numbers wise the way we would like, adcoms will never view my years spent as a medic any different then the few times a month emt-b vol. rescue squad no offense to those folks. Though in the long run this will make me a better physician an if I can convey that to them then great if not o-well my patients will surely benefit.

Good Luck/Disclaimer Don't Take My Word I Wouldn't

Ps. Also im in agreement with the abive post, pretty much emt-b is a great way to be involved with health care system and patients. Thats what type of clinical experience to my knowledge their looking for. Not the how many deaths,birth,lives saved, people helped.

 

[Siggy]

Too bad medicine isn't about skills. Also, if you actually took the time to get over the butt hurt long enough to read my post, you'd see that I wasn't discounting experience. Saying, "ZOMG I intubated a patient and, gosh darn it, dem nurses can't do that [and, to be honest, most physicians shouldn't be intubating either]" is not an important experience.

 

[Paramedic2DocMD]

Siggy,
I read your post and I agreed with it as I stated at the end.
I belive I may have worded it wrong it was rather quick reply after reading it.
It was more of a general Statement to let folks understand EMS in general is not the same everywhere, and certainly not a you call we haul taxi service like in the past.
Just trying to let the OP understand that while even In EMS nothing I did matter In the eyes of adcoms just that I did it and I'm not upset by it just rather to use my experiences to make a decent PS. Like when he listed stuff he did I could list tons of things.
Also demostrate to him that many folks that he shot down that he belived that they have never had mud on their shoes as he put it. May have just aswell seen some sad,difficult,rough times through something as working as a EMT-B.

Good Luck/Disclaimer Don't Take My Word I Wouldn't