Clinical experience: does this count?

[dokein]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

This stuff has to count for something. Seriously, I'm tired of listening to the pampered kids on here, with their "1.5 years" of experience, folding towels and answering phones.

You have no idea what people here have done, many of us have done something unique and challenging. Just because you meet a few people, here or in real life, who are pampered (might I add, a small group of people that does not statistically represent the premed population) doesn't mean ****.

Dealing with what you've dealt with and overcoming it is hard as hell, and it will mean a **** ton on your apps. But when people tell you that you should get clinical experience to know what it is like to work inside a U.S. hospital and fill out mundane clinical paperwork--which is what your future work environment is most likely to be (plans of moving to Europe aside)--you should listen and not get all pissy.

 

[ClickityClack]

.

 

[Old Grunt]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Chillax, heroes.


Just got my blood tests back. I've got some bitch of a virus that's been causing some serious moodiness.
Night sweats, nightmares, severe joint and muscle pain, swollen lymphs, sore throat, acute depression.
Naproxem's starting to help with the joint pain.
No, I don't know what it is. I only know it's not parvo, Epstein-Barr, or Hep.

Apologies to those I've offended.

I am not the world's greatest medical student, but I am fairly certain that there isn't any virus that causes a person to be abrasive on internet forums.

A lot of times there is sillyness in the pre-allo forum, but you picked this fight by implying that their experiences weren't meaningful/relevant/etc.

You've already got a compelling application, I wish you all the success in the world in your application.

If and when you get to medical school, your peers are going to come from all walks of life. If you treat them with the same disdain, your medical school experience will be a lonely one.

In my experience, being a veteran gains you a lot of respect and credibility from those who are not. However, it is not a blank check to be rude.

Good luck.

 

[ClickityClack]

.

 

[ClickityClack]

Hate to double post, but I wanna throw this out there:

The arguments against my rantings are entirely valid, with considerable merit.
Any frustrated non-trads out there, hoping to remain relevant in a world of intimidatingly gifted competitors... take note! You're probably better prepared than you think, so don't succumb to the dark side just yet.
Message me, and I can try to help without offending the others. Life's not fair, so try not to take it out on others.

Lesson learned.

 

[runawayclock]

-I helped give catheters to old men in Macedonian villages; guys with swollen prostates...-
-Helped my first gunshot victim when I was 19 (left shoulder, single entry and exit, AK-47) pressure dressing, ran an IV, helped load litter onto helo
-Responsible for caring for a crewmember with frostbitten toes (they later fell off)
-Helped care for my friend, stabbed in the stomach in a bar fight (helped with bandaging, getting him dressed, out of bed, medication, day to day stuff)
-Helped render first-aid to a child who's cheek was ripped off by a dog, in Kosovo
-Helped deliver a baby (yes, seriously), also in Kosovo
(hospital wouldn't let her inside, she "chose the wrong religion")
-Rendered first-aid to a soldier with a compound fracture in the upper arm
-helped an old guy, who's eye had been punctured by the goat he was living with
(he'd been kicked out of his house, was living in the goat shed)
gangrenous, unfortunately
-taught Combat Lifesaver courses to over 300 soldiers, over a 6 year period
-gave IV's to my guys when they were dehydrated in Iraq
-helped my unit with the medical supply needs for various villages in various countries
-helped clean up the mess after IEDs
-helped in the evac of a platoon member, who's foot had been blown off
-helped at a mass burial site in Macedonia
-helped in the extraction of dead/wounded soldiers and civilians in various combat theatres

This stuff has to count for something. Seriously, I'm tired of listening to the pampered kids on here, with their "1.5 years" of experience, folding towels and answering phones.
What I'm wondering, though, is if adcoms will think I'm blowing the proverbial smoke up their asses.

OP, i am not trying to sound patronizing but all of the above is insanely bad ass. like worthy of an action movie bad ass. Even if it doesn't count as clinical experience, you really should be talking about these experiences in your personal statement. List it under your military experience and let the adcoms decide whether or not this is clinical experience. Maybe they will or maybe they won't. Either way, i'm sure that your app will stand out.

 

[298609]

i agree with the above poster's first statement....when i initially read your post i imagined you as bruce willis.

 

[ClickityClack]

Hate to call you out, Grunt. I know very little about you; you sound like a decent person. And, doing it over the internet is just too easy.

Let's shake and be friends.

 

[Old Grunt]

Yes, I realize it looks like a childish cop-out. Especially to you, since I don't offer to blow you for graduating a training course and spending a year in the mountains, but fulfilling the rest of your service obligation in Hawaii. I respect those to whom the tab has been a burden, or who have forgotten it's even sewn to their shoulder.

You are mistaken if you think my sentiments to you are based on anything other than your comments on this thread. (Yes, I saw you post to me in the other thread, and now this thread, and am completely un-interested in further perpetuating such boorish behavior here. It is not at all germane to the topic at hand. If you wish to further opine on my service record, do it in the proper place.)

Rather, as someone who is on virtually the same route as you (military service and combat to med school) and a couple years ahead of you, my comments are made out of annoyance that you would use your service to belittle traditional students.

Frankly, I see this entire thread as nothing but an excuse to do exactly that. There is no need for such behavior, and it only stigmatizes the rest of us and perpetuates the "angry/maladjusted/whatever" negative veteran stereotype.

As someone who has the advantage of age and experience, you should be above that.

I take it from the rest of your post (the part that I snipped out), that you have come to that conclusion on your own.

If you are being sincere, I respect that, commend you for having achieved some introspection, and wish you luck in your future endeavors. You don't have to "beg" me for anything. I also am not interested in "displays of manhood". We are both adults and don't need positive affirmation on message boards to get through the day.

At any rate, my only interest is that the traditional students who have read this thread don't walk away with a skewed perception of their potential future classmates who have served their country.

 

[ClickityClack]

Great. We're steel on steel.

Now, let's draw this out for a few months bickering over who's more righteous.


Happy New Year, crunchy.

 

[dokein]

Everyone's valuable in their own right, even this guy: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=685618

Well ... maybe not THAT guy.

 

[SarVA]

I think a lot of this is really more how you can sell these things as worthwhile experiences (regardless of whether the admissions committee will label it as "clinical"). I know that a few years ago I was told by the dean of admissions of a relatively prestigious medical school that rescue (EMT) experience absolutely doesn't count as clinical experience. When I asked him why he told me that in his mind clinical experience should involve close interaction with MDs because he saw the major point of clinical experience as ensuring that being a physician is really what you want to do. So, in that sense, I understand how my rescue experience does not qualify. I have done plenty of in-hospital hours as well so that I can have "clinical experience."
On the other hand, I think that my experience in rescue adds something huge to my application (and your experiences in the military add the same type of thing). It's something that I hope to have come up in my PS and my interviews (I'll be applying this summer for 2011). I think I'll just have to make it quite clear that I'm not trying to say that because of rescue I'll ace biochemistry but that I do think that through these experiences I have learned valuable skills (ie. being able to deal with death, interacting with patients, prioritizing conditions (and at times patients in triage situations), having confidence in making crucial decisions by myself, thinking outside the box about how to treat or evaluate a condition, etc.).

That's at least how I plan to approach this...I think if you did something similar you could hopefully make the admissions committee see your experiences as a major asset to your application, even if it is a little out of the box. Good luck!

 

[Old Grunt]

I think a lot of this is really more how you can sell these things as worthwhile experiences (regardless of whether the admissions committee will label it as "clinical"). I know that a few years ago I was told by the dean of admissions of a relatively prestigious medical school that rescue (EMT) experience absolutely doesn't count as clinical experience. When I asked him why he told me that in his mind clinical experience should involve close interaction with MDs because he saw the major point of clinical experience as ensuring that being a physician is really what you want to do. So, in that sense, I understand how my rescue experience does not qualify. I have done plenty of in-hospital hours as well so that I can have "clinical experience."
On the other hand, I think that my experience in rescue adds something huge to my application (and your experiences in the military add the same type of thing). It's something that I hope to have come up in my PS and my interviews (I'll be applying this summer for 2011). I think I'll just have to make it quite clear that I'm not trying to say that because of rescue I'll ace biochemistry but that I do think that through these experiences I have learned valuable skills (ie. being able to deal with death, interacting with patients, prioritizing conditions (and at times patients in triage situations), having confidence in making crucial decisions by myself, thinking outside the box about how to treat or evaluate a condition, etc.).

That's at least how I plan to approach this...I think if you did something similar you could hopefully make the admissions committee see your experiences as a major asset to your application, even if it is a little out of the box. Good luck!

Has "clinical experience" become an absolute requirement for admission? I know it's a nice thing to have, but is there actually a standard put forth by the AAMC that defines what is and is not "clinical experience"?

If not, it's entirely subjective and up to whoever is reading it and not really worth obsessing about (IMO). You can cite whatever experience you had as "clinical experience" and leave it up to the person reading your app. I did the typical "volunteer in an ER" thing to buffer my application, and can't say it really helped me to gain a vast insight into the world of medicine. It was more of a check the block thing.

If there are definitive standards that are set forth, than it becomes a different story.

I am just not sure if the application requirements have changed in the past couple of years.

 

[JonathanMD]

Everyone's valuable in their own right, even this guy: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=685618

Oh my.