Clinical Psych Graduate School Chicago Area

[ccladybird]

I'm somewhat new to the area of Chicago. I graduated with my BA in psychology (3.72). I took the GRE but the results were painfully average. The pro to taking it was achieving a 98% on the writing portion. I have applied to:

PsyD in Clinical Psychology at Adler University (previously Adler School of Professional Psychology)
MA in Clinical Psychology at Roosevelt University
MA in General Psych at DePaul University
MS in Clinical Mental Health at Chicago State University

My end goal is to work in clinical psychology with a concentration in neuro. Adler offers this, but it is also the most expensive. I applied to the other programs (all MA) due to missing the deadline (did not know I would be moving to Chicago until December 20th) and also having the less than stellar GRE scores.

I wanted to know: is lacking a MA seen as a negative when applying for a PsyD? opinions on the programs, pros and cons, any alumni with advice? I was originally very excited about Adler but the cost is deterring, as are some of the reviews I've seen. Roosevelt is also a close second, but I'm worried that my GPA will not be strong enough for an acceptance.

Also: I have experience working in special education, primarily the autistic population and I have lab experience as well. But I am unsure as to how heavily that is weighed in comparison to the GPA/GRE scores.

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[WisNeuro]

Adler has terrible match rates, which will make it very difficult for you to get into a neuro internship and later a neuro postdoc.

 

[ccladybird]

Thank you for your response. I saw that their match rates float around 50% on a good year. I was curious if this had more to do with Adler as an institute, or with the students and their lack of application. The mixed reviews I have seen, I take with a grain of salt and wonder if maybe the student could have done something to make their experience more enjoyable (i.e. tried harder, done better), or if I was just kidding myself in thinking that. Perhaps it is just wishful thinking.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Adler is not known for their neuro training…..at all. Even if a student excelled during graduate school, competing against other neuro applicants for fellowship would be an uphill battle at best. Considering the cost, poor match rate, and generally poor reputation of the school, you probably should look elsewhere.

 

[ccladybird]

Thank you for your replies. Do you have any comments about the other schools mentioned? Also, do you both work as Neuropsychologists? As I stated previously, that is my intended goal. If, so, do you work primarily in research? Private practice? Hospital setting? Please bestow upon me pearls of wisdom!

 

[WisNeuro]

I do about 75% clinical, 25% research. As for the Chicago area, Rosalind Franklin and UIC come to mind as quality training programs.

 

[bcliff]

I do about 75% clinical, 25% research. As for the Chicago area, Rosalind Franklin and UIC come to mind as quality training programs.

NW Evanston & NW Feinberg

 

[ccladybird]

Thank you again for your responses. I was interested in UIC as well (it's a great school), but as I previously stated, I did not know I'd end up in the Chicago area until past the deadline. This appears to be the same case for NW and Rosalind. In your opinion, should I go through with obtaining a MA from any of the listed applications (and eventually reapplying for a PhD/PsyD), or should I wait another year and apply to one of these schools instead?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Thank you for your replies. Do you have any comments about the other schools mentioned? Also, do you both work as Neuropsychologists? As I stated previously, that is my intended goal. If, so, do you work primarily in research? Private practice? Hospital setting? Please bestow upon me pearls of wisdom!

1. I'm not familiar with the MA/MS programs in the Chicago area, so I'll defer that to other people.
2. Yes, I work as a neuropsychologist (in a rehab setting) at an R1 AMC. I'm probably 80% clinical, 20% research/admin/other.
3. Program reputation, mentor, and academic productivity (publications, papers, invited talks) are all major areas of consideration for me personally. I don't want, "research is icky" types in the field because research is such an important aspect for both neuropsych and rehab psych. The vast majority of neuropsychs are clinicians, but they need to be comfortable with consuming and utilizing research in daily practice.

I am on the review committee for our fellowship program, and there are far more applicants than spots, so program reputation is definitely a factor. Some faculty/reviewers will flat out toss apps from professional programs, others may consider them with some reservations. I strongly advise against attending a professional program because (whether it is fair or not) there is still a stigma associated with the programs and for competitive positions it is a consideration.

 

[ccladybird]

Advise against a professional program? That sounds counter intuitive to me, or am I misunderstanding you? What type of program would be beneficial then?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

University-based Ph.D. or Psy.D. programs…as opposed to any free-standing school. Tracks/Concentrations/etc. are mostly marketing, so don't get tricked into the idea you need to attend a program with one.

 

[bcliff]

I'm not sure what your career goals are, but if you do want to become a neuropsychologist, then wait and reapply to clinical psychology PhD programs next year.

You won't have to look very hard on SDN to learn that geographic limitations are a huge hurdle for aspiring psychologists, and it's often impossible to make it through grad school, internship, and post-doc w/o having to move at least once. All the clinical psychology PhD programs mentioned in this thread are very competitive, and fit between the applicant and POI (professor of interest) is a huge component of graduate admissions. Clinical psychology PhD programs will likely be funded (you won't pay tuition, and you'll receive a modest stipend), which is one of the major reasons why these programs are so competitive.

 

[ccladybird]

That is true. The main reason I applied to Masters programs now is primarily my GRE score. I enjoy clinical psychology, but I have grown fond of the neuro specialization. I think the brain is fascinating and honestly what will be most influential in the coming years. As for being limited to this area, I would not be opposed to moving so that should be somewhat of a plus. Thank you all again for your input.

 

[calimich]

Might want to consider Western Michigan U's clinical psych PhD program. It's not too far from Chicago, APA accredited, and has solid match rates.

 

[ccladybird]

How would my GRE scores fare when applying to PsyD/PhD programs? I felt they were just too low and along with missing the deadline, that was also a huge factor in deciding if I should even try

 

[ccladybird]

Verbal: 148
Quantitative: 151
Writing: 98

 

[DynamicDidactic]

It seems you are very hung up on applying this year. Most clinical psychology program deadlines have passed at this point. Adler is one of the few that hasn't. This should be a red flag for you.

Generally speaking, neuro is very competitive and attending a program with a (very) poor reputation is going to hinder your career goals. I knew a Chicagoland neuro intern that came from a for-profit Chicago PsyD program. The intern definitely regretted attending the program and often complained that they were being passed over b/c of the program. While this is only anecdotal evidence we also have a slew of empirical evidence showing that this type of program is detrimental to your career/life prospects.

If you are very serious about pursuing this goal I would steer clear of large cohort, low internship match rate, low EPPP pass rate, high debt programs. If you do not think that you are capable of being accepted to other programs you could improve your chances by taking this time to gain more research experience, work on your GREs, or apply to a solid masters program that will get you research experience.

Being regionally restrictive is also a barrier. Chicago has a lot of clinical psychology programs and commensurate competition. This includes for grad school, externships/external practica, and internship. I would definitely not chose to work as a clinical psychologist in Chicago. Not only is the winter a bit traumatizing but its still a center of outdated practices/old guard and competition. Mental health services are definitely overburden and underfunded in the city.

 

[ccladybird]

Thank you for your response. I am leaning toward going the MA/MS --> eventual doctoral route, as opposed to signing over my life for 5+ years and $100,000+ to Adler. But I'll have to wait and see if any other school accepts me. Thank you everyone for your input.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

Verbal: 148
Quantitative: 151
Writing: 98

there is a whole thread for "What Are My Chances"

 

[ccladybird]

I saw that too but I figured I'd add it here anyway. I'm somewhat new. Sorry!

 

[jadezomb]

Being regionally restrictive is also a barrier. Chicago has a lot of clinical psychology programs and commensurate competition. This includes for grad school, externships/external practica, and internship. I would definitely not chose to work as a clinical psychologist in Chicago. Not only is the winter a bit traumatizing but its still a center of outdated practices/old guard and competition. Mental health services are definitely overburden and underfunded in the city.

Can I ask what you mean by outdated practices/old guard?

 

[WisNeuro]

They still like projectives in Chicago on the assessment side.

 

[cara susanna]

I'd look at UW Milwaukee as well. It's only about two hours from Chicago.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

Can I ask what you mean by outdated practices/old guard?

http://chicagopsychoanalyticsociety.org/

I know we have a range of orientations on this site and my desire is not to argue the merits of psychoanalytic theory. But I was shocked at how many practitioners (usually older) actively disregard empiricism and positivism when it comes to treating health behaviors. Especially setting up near unethical treatment for certain disorders/behaviors (e.g., eating disorders, suicidality).

 

[ccladybird]

Oh, btw, as far as universities within proximity of chicago for clinical psych training, I'd look into the following in no particular order (they vary in competence and reputation, but I am not interested in ranking that at the moment):

Depaul
University of Illinois at Chicago
Rosalind Franklin (phd students were fully funded at some point, would check)
Northwestern
Loyola (know there are good psychs here, not sure if they have a phd program or not, check)
Notre Dame
Marquette
University of Wisconsin Madison
University of Wisconsin Milwaukee
University of Iowa (the furthest away of what I am suggesting; about 4 hours)

A few rules for clinical psych doctoral program selection:
- Fully funded only (this rules out almost all psyD programs and several for profit phd programs)
- Clinical science > scientist practitioner (mileage may vary). Other models probably should be ignored

Don't go to Adler. Don't go to the Masters programs. You've made this decision too late. Apply next year. This year, work on raising your GRE score to an acceptable level. Get some research experience. Make yourself competitive for a good program. Seriously, you DO NOT need to go to school NOW. You missed the application window. Pretend as if Adler does not exist.

As far as neuro goes, you don't need a neuro track. Read this website thoroughly http://www.theabcn.org/content.aspx?id=5

What you want is a program, not that necessarily advertises a neuro track, but that has the requisite curriculum and a neuropsych/neuroscience mentor that can get you on the track to doing the right kind of research. You want access to practica that train you well in graduate school to prepare for internship. You want to publish neuro papers to increase your competitiveness for good neuro postdocs. Look at the faculty at the various universities I outlined above. Find the ones that do neuropsych. Read their papers. See if they are taking students. This year, you can volunteer as an RA in one of their labs or even apply to be a paid RA. Learn something about the field. Don't go to Adler. Don't go to school this year.

Thank you thank you thank you for your response. I was able to submit applications for the MA/MS programs at Roosevelt and DePaul, and those are the top two I'm hoping for. My only contention, is that I do want to go to school this year. I turn 25 this year and I feel like the clock is ticking. I think that doing a MA/MS program this year would be beneficial in applying later for a PhD program (hopefully with the same school), in both gaining experience, and proving myself at the post graduate level. I also think that will make me a stronger candidate when I do apply, as opposed to holding only a BA from 3+ years ago. I think my experience is strong. To elaborate, I volunteered in a laboratory at a university for two years (one of my LOR). After graduating/moving, I was hired with the DOD (school system) and worked in special education for two school years (another LOR). Before getting hired, I also volunteered as a caseworker for military personnel (another LOR). I honestly think the only thing (hopefully) that would hold me back would be my GRE score. BUT, that is why I wanted to post and see what is really out there. I guess my follow up question is, knowing all this, do you still think I should put it off for another year with just the hope of gaining experience + maybe raising my GRE? I've already taken it twice, without much change in between

 

[ccladybird]

What is the purpose of the masters degree? You'll have to pay for those, yes?

If you think it will help you get into the same school, I'd ask them about the rates of that occurring. Also, my understanding is that Roosevelt does not have much in the way of financial assistance for their psyd programs. 25 is young. Getting in at 26, 27 is pretty normal.

Do you have any technical experience in neuro labs? E.g., learning how to do neuroimaging processing. Learning how to use matlab. Do you have a technical background at all? Have you taken a lot of stats courses? Do you know how to use various statistical software packages? You haven't even applied yet for a serious doctoral program (funded). I am not familiar with the GRE scoring system you posted. How far off the mark are you? Can you hit the median scores at any of the programs I posted above?

The purpose of the Masters degree would be to create a more competitive application, with more experience + solid proof of handling post graduate work. I have extensive experience in SPSS (stats software), I've taken different stats and different math courses and earned all A's/B's. My GRE scores are not that strong, but retaking them once has not really raised my score (even with studying the Princeton Review for a month solid). I'm wondering if I DID retake the GRE, if I should maybe try the subject as opposed to the regular test. The programs I applied too didn't have a cutoff for the GRE, or else I wouldn't have applied.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Taking grad psych classes is typically over-rated due to grade inflation and less transferable skills. You'll want to have at least 2 years of research experience (working with a professor, with his/her research team), as those types of experiences will be viewed far more favorably than taking some grad level psych classes. If you want to work in neuropsych, then taking anatomy, physiology, etc. would be helpful, but not as a substitute for research experience. You can usually have one area of your app that isn't above avg (e.g. GRE scores) as long as you still meet the minimum cutoff of the program.

 

[ccladybird]

Taking grad psych classes is typically over-rated due to grade inflation and less transferable skills. You'll want to have at least 2 years of research experience (working with a professor, with his/her research team), as those types of experiences will be viewed far more favorably than taking some grad level psych classes. If you want to work in neuropsych, then taking anatomy, physiology, etc. would be helpful, but not as a substitute for research experience. You can usually have one area of your app that isn't above avg (e.g. GRE scores) as long as you still meet the minimum cutoff of the program.

I plan on getting more lab experience, regardless of starting this year or not. I'm taking a look at the required program courses now. If the MA/MS course list doesn't offer bio specific courses, I'm looking to load up on stats. Thank you all for your input. It should also be (somewhat sadly) noted that I have not heard back from any of the schools yet so I'm not even sure I would be able to start this year, even if I wanted to. But the knowledge you all provided is appreciated anyway!

 

[smalltownpsych]

I plan on getting more lab experience, regardless of starting this year or not. I'm taking a look at the required program courses now. If the MA/MS course list doesn't offer bio specific courses, I'm looking to load up on stats. Thank you all for your input. It should also be (somewhat sadly) noted that I have not heard back from any of the schools yet so I'm not even sure I would be able to start this year, even if I wanted to. But the knowledge you all provided is appreciated anyway!

From looking at the descriptions of these degrees on their websites, it does not look like they will prepare you to apply for a doctorate as much as prepare you to be a MA level counselor or to add experience to an existing job that you already have. Also, in looking at your GRE scores, they seem pretty low especially the verbal component which usually tends to be the higher score for psychologists. If you can't improve that score, that could be a significant barrier.