Clinical Scientist Training Program--Advice?

[relentless11]

Hey guys,

Was just informed that at my school, they are allowing a few students 1st year PhD students like myself to apply into this program designed to train future scientists the art of clinical sciences (e.g.: rounds, doctoring, clinical pathology, etc). This is NOT a MSTP, but nevertheless appears appears to be quite competative. It is one year long, and pays for my tuition and provides a stipend (in addition to what i get as a grad student).

Pretty much it all comes down to my undergrad (UG) GPA. I need to take more undergrad classes even as a PhD student to boost my UG GPA. However this program will may only prevent me from taking 3-4 undergrad classes the whole year. I will have 2-3 years left in my PhD program, so plenty of time (estimate of about 18-20 classes) to take more classes. My UG GPA is currently 2.66 (with post-bacc included) therefore a lot of work is needed to get it to the magical 3.0 to not be screened...lol.

However this program has much to give. The clinical courses are the med school doctoring courses. This past year I have maintained my 4.0 graduate GPA in classes including med school courses. Although all of these courses will NOT impact my UG GPA, I believe they should have a relatively similar effect as an SMP (at least at our medical school here). So I unsure which way to go.

More post-bacc? or take 1 year doing doctoring stuff, and then do post-bacc my remaining years. In regards to my thesis project, I should have time to do that in either case so no problems there. From your perspective, which one do you think will add more value to myself as a physician-scientist, and/or med school applicant. ANyway as always thanks for your assistance

PS: Either way I will be happy, and this is assuming I get into this program..lol.

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[vtucci]

If they are having you take the same curriculum as medical students, then that will show your ability to suceed in medical school and will be of more value than taking extra post-bac courses on Orgo. Make sure you nail this though. If you don't do well, that can really hurt you.

How did you get into a PhD program with an average under 3.0? Was that from your long lost past? If so, don't worry as much about it as your recent coursework.

Make sure you have a kick ass personal statement, MCAT scores etc. Also, have a lot of leadership positions and since you are in a PhD program, make sure to get some publications.

 

[relentless11]

How did you get into a PhD program with an average under 3.0? Was that from your long lost past? If so, don't worry as much about it as your recent coursework.

Make sure you have a kick ass personal statement, MCAT scores etc. Also, have a lot of leadership positions and since you are in a PhD program, make sure to get some publications.

Oh yea thats a long story in its own right. Pretty much came down to the chair having to write special letter to the dean of graduate studies to justify my admissions. I think it also helped that I did 1.5 years of post-bacc (3.4 GPA), had 23 publications, and worked in my lab for 5 years before even applying. I don't think supporting my family and myself as an undergrad had much of an effect (seriously), since I actually saw the letter sent to the dean, and it didn't make much of a case about that. The other cool part was the chair waived my GRE requirement, and replaced it with my MCAT scores (36). Anyway, I ended up getting a "conditional admission" where I was in a non-degree earning program. I had to maintain a 3.0 for at least one quarter to get out of it. I can guarantee you that I wouldn't have been admitted to any other program, I was VERY lucky.

In regards to applying to med school later...I have to take the MCAT again...since my 3 years will be up..lol. Anyway, I need to ask that program a few more details since they may be emphasizing a background in basic science research, so I not qualify. Who knows! Thanks so much for the feedback

 

[RxnMan]

If you have 2-3 years left in your program, then you have 1-2 years to do ugrad courses and boost the ugrad GPA - AMCAS cuts everything short by a year.

Here's what I would do - do a cost/benefits analysis of the extra ugrad classes (& attendant GPA boost) that are the opportunity cost of doing the clinician PhD classes. That is:

- How much do you expect to boost your grades total?
- How does this compare to the amount of boost you expect to lose by not taking these classes?
- How does this compare to the perceived gains of taking classes 'just like the med students?' - remember, I'd put it in your essays somehow so the ADCOMs see this.

You should also see how much you can raise your GPA anyways if you take only ugrad classes - can you even break 3.0?

 

[relentless11]

If you have 2-3 years left in your program, then you have 1-2 years to do ugrad courses and boost the ugrad GPA - AMCAS cuts everything short by a year.

Here's what I would do - do a cost/benefits analysis of the extra ugrad classes (& attendant GPA boost) that are the opportunity cost of doing the clinician PhD classes. That is:

- How much do you expect to boost your grades total?
- How does this compare to the amount of boost you expect to lose by not taking these classes?
- How does this compare to the perceived gains of taking classes 'just like the med students?' - remember, I'd put it in your essays somehow so the ADCOMs see this.

You should also see how much you can raise your GPA anyways if you take only ugrad classes - can you even break 3.0?

Yea good point RxnMan, I'll have to sit on that for a bit. Regardless I'm going to apply anyway. My PI gave me his blessing to do it, and since it doesn't cost me much (other than $$ for sending transcripts), it doesn't hurt to apply anyway. As always, I appreciate your suggestions, as well as the rest of you all in these forums

 

[QofQuimica]

Yea good point RxnMan, I'll have to sit on that for a bit. Regardless I'm going to apply anyway. My PI gave me his blessing to do it, and since it doesn't cost me much (other than $$ for sending transcripts), it doesn't hurt to apply anyway. As always, I appreciate your suggestions, as well as the rest of you all in these forums

I'd ask the med school what they suggest. There's no better source for answers, right?

You started grad school with TWENTY-THREE papers???? That's freaking amazing; I hope I have that many before I retire. Props to you. So I have to ask, how many do you have now??? And are you sure you really want to go to med school with a research track record like that?

 

[relentless11]

I'd ask the med school what they suggest. There's no better source for answers, right?

You started grad school with TWENTY-THREE papers???? That's freaking amazing; I hope I have that many before I retire. Props to you. So I have to ask, how many do you have now??? And are you sure you really want to go to med school with a research track record like that?

Nah its mainly quantity. Most are clinical trials/evaluations, some review articles, and 3 are book chapters. Not all are first authors, but the vast majority were as 2nd author. I have about 25 as of today, with one currently under review. Thank you for the props though, but I have to admit, they are probably more diserving to those that burnt the midnight oil (longer than I) and cranked out a singular break through paper in something like Nature, Cell or Science. Those basic science research papers have always amazed me.

My goal though is to get 1 paper into a really high impact journal like JAMA, CCM, or NEJM. I got owned by JAMA and NEJM last month..hahaha, but now waiting word from CCM..so here's hoping. Its not too depressing though since our professors say that during their 20-odd careers, they might have gotten 1-2 papers accepted on the first try in these journals (if at all).

Anyway, I will definately follow-up with the med school here. What really sold me though was that apparently they will award us with a masters degree upon completing this program . Which pretty much means this thing is going to be uber competative so I hope I get in. But if i don't i'll be sad for a day or two, but hey.....aslong as I keep my eye on the real prize, which is that MD.

BTW QinQuimica, you going to still do research when you start med school next fall? Or are you going to take a break for a bit?.

 

[chrisjohn]

I was in the same boat, but completed a M.S. Be sure to apply to MD/PhD programs, especially UofI Champaign. You'll get in somewhere along as you duplicated or raise your MCAT score.

You're closer than you think, keep on keeping on.

 

[chrisjohn]

23 PUBS! Daaaaamnnn.

My wife has more than I do.

 

[RxnMan]

I was in the same boat, but completed a M.S. Be sure to apply to MD/PhD programs, especially UofI Champaign. You'll get in somewhere along as you duplicated or raise your MCAT score.

You're closer than you think, keep on keeping on.

I applied to those bastards because they asked me to and then they rejected me without an interview! It seems like a great program, but relentless11, they don't have the ability to look at guys like us (low ugrad GPA but with grad degrees, papers, etc).

I'd ask the med school what they suggest. There's no better source for answers, right?

As anywhere in science, the simplest answers are the best.

 

[chrisjohn]

Admissions process is arbitrary. What's new?

Champaign's too flat anyway.

 

[QofQuimica]

BTW QinQuimica, you going to still do research when you start med school next fall? Or are you going to take a break for a bit?.

Yes. I'm going to take a fifth year for research and do a post doc.

 

[relentless11]

Well the application for this bundle of joy is done and I will be submitting it in a few hours in person (never trusted mail..haha). Apparently there will be interviews, and they will let us know if we got in or not early June. Talk about a quick turnaround time.

Now I should refresh my memory regarding my research since I think they will borrow some of the faculty from the MD/PhD program to interview us. Should be exciting. Prolly a good practice for med school interview anyway...which is ages down the road.