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Hi Everyone!
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Closing Window of Opportunity
- Thread starter Squiggy
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yeah i think it's a big mistake going to a carib or other foreign med school if you're starting out just now.. I think the top quality students that were going to SGU, ROSS and AUC will start getting accepted into US MD and DO schools and that worse caliber students will go to the carib, and those big schools will lose their credibility and will eventually fade away. Residency programs haven't expanded by a large % ever. and I don't expect them to expand any time soon. The US government doesn't care about USIMGs or FMGs, prematching is already pretty hard to do and will continue to get harder.. i think that if you're applying now and can't get into a US MD school DO is definitely the way to go. I would probably go DO if had to do it all over again.
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How many of these threads do you people have to create in order to beat this poor topic to death?
If you cannot get into a US/Canadian school then you go to somewhere that offers you a chance. If the IMG/FMG route is no longer an option, you change your career goals.
How hard is that to understand?
It's like asking what happens if we move to universal healthcare just as we finish medical school with $200,000 in the hole and have to work for 90k per year? There is no point to that thread because it is not happening, just like your bizarro idea that the extra 6000 annual residency spots will magically fill up in the next 10-20 years.
Stop posting nonsense.
If you cannot get into a US/Canadian school then you go to somewhere that offers you a chance. If the IMG/FMG route is no longer an option, you change your career goals.
How hard is that to understand?
It's like asking what happens if we move to universal healthcare just as we finish medical school with $200,000 in the hole and have to work for 90k per year? There is no point to that thread because it is not happening, just like your bizarro idea that the extra 6000 annual residency spots will magically fill up in the next 10-20 years.
Stop posting nonsense.
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If you're a mediocre student, then DO is the way to go. It gives you a spot no matter how aaverage you are as a applicant.
On the other hand, if you're a great applicant it won't matter as much.
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Yes, I think it would logically get harder for US IMG's and FMG's to match in the next few years, UNLESS residency positions expand. I wouldn't rule out that happening...particularly in primary care. But I wouldn't bet on it either...it takes more Medicare money, which I don't think the gov't wants to spend right now. That could change.
I think it will be a gradual thing (this pushing out of IMG and FMG's). I would certainly redouble my efforts to get in to a US school if I were currently a premed in the US. It should be a LITTLE easier now than it was in the past.
You would have to do the math to figure out how many new US grads there will be in 4-5 years, vs. how many residency spots, to see how much more difficult it will/would become to match then. From what I've seen,even with the current expansion of US schools, there will still be more residency spots than grads. I think there will still be opportunities for US IMG's who have good scores on their US medical license exam and good letters of reference from their 3rd and 4th years of medical school (i.e. the clinical rotations).
Would think that the current expansion of US med schools might hurt some of the Caribbean schools, but not that it's the doomsday scenario for them that some of her have postulated. There will still be Canadian students, and there will still be US students who either underperformed in college but ultimately can go down to the Carib, do well/suck it up, or those who really aren't prepared but still have made up their minds to get an MD anyway (i.e. the ones who end up failing out).
What's a fobby by the way? Is that some bizarre racial slur against FMG's (? south Asians). I don't blame them at all for coming over here for residency... I mean, it's an opportunity that is open that they are just taking. I think it's a problem for some patients who have a hard time understanding some of these docs w/their foreign accents, but that's not true in all cases.
I think it will be a gradual thing (this pushing out of IMG and FMG's). I would certainly redouble my efforts to get in to a US school if I were currently a premed in the US. It should be a LITTLE easier now than it was in the past.
You would have to do the math to figure out how many new US grads there will be in 4-5 years, vs. how many residency spots, to see how much more difficult it will/would become to match then. From what I've seen,even with the current expansion of US schools, there will still be more residency spots than grads. I think there will still be opportunities for US IMG's who have good scores on their US medical license exam and good letters of reference from their 3rd and 4th years of medical school (i.e. the clinical rotations).
Would think that the current expansion of US med schools might hurt some of the Caribbean schools, but not that it's the doomsday scenario for them that some of her have postulated. There will still be Canadian students, and there will still be US students who either underperformed in college but ultimately can go down to the Carib, do well/suck it up, or those who really aren't prepared but still have made up their minds to get an MD anyway (i.e. the ones who end up failing out).
What's a fobby by the way? Is that some bizarre racial slur against FMG's (? south Asians). I don't blame them at all for coming over here for residency... I mean, it's an opportunity that is open that they are just taking. I think it's a problem for some patients who have a hard time understanding some of these docs w/their foreign accents, but that's not true in all cases.
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It is a common misconception that anyone who enters the match from outside a LCME school is entering through a magical back door that gives them some sort of advantage or 'cheat' into the system.
The fact of the matter is that the people of America need primary care physicians in underserved areas. If these non-LCME FMGs did not fill these spots, there would be Americans who will not have active healthcare. This is detrimental to the economy and to the national GDP as a whole.
If a less qualified candidate takes the spot of a qualified person, then that is sneaking in through the back door. This is not the situation.
The fact of the matter is that the people of America need primary care physicians in underserved areas. If these non-LCME FMGs did not fill these spots, there would be Americans who will not have active healthcare. This is detrimental to the economy and to the national GDP as a whole.
If a less qualified candidate takes the spot of a qualified person, then that is sneaking in through the back door. This is not the situation.
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There have been plans for LCME expansion since the mid-90s. Whether it materializes is not an issue for one important reason.
Those 1000-2000 (or so) American students who go to the Caribbean will fill most of the ranks of those new seats in LCME schools.
That means a net loss for Caribbean school profits, but no net difference for the average student who wants to attend medical school.
There are also cycles that people ignore that revolve around the state of the economy that attracts medical school applications during economic downturns and reduces applications during bullish economies (i.e. late 90s).
It seems that DNP, PA (etc) is going to be more and more attractive if the current trends continue...
Those 1000-2000 (or so) American students who go to the Caribbean will fill most of the ranks of those new seats in LCME schools.
That means a net loss for Caribbean school profits, but no net difference for the average student who wants to attend medical school.
There are also cycles that people ignore that revolve around the state of the economy that attracts medical school applications during economic downturns and reduces applications during bullish economies (i.e. late 90s).
It seems that DNP, PA (etc) is going to be more and more attractive if the current trends continue...
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DNP and PA are good jobs...actually pretty cush in a lot of cases. They are making more than I make now, and I've been out of med school since 2004. You have to remember about doing residency, then potentially research years and/or fellowships. The DNP and PA hit the ground running with a salary after a few years of school...and from what I hear they are probably getting better than a resident salary to start, then maybe 80k after a while. They have much less student debt and better hours than most docs. You have to understand your own personality though. I didn't think I'd be happy taking my marching orders from someone else, so I didn't think I'd do well in those fields. NP's, though, in certain situations have a great amount of autonomy...
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I actually wouldn't mind going the PA or DNP route as long as it allows me to be autonomous. I think in really podunk places (ie. some states) PA's are allowed to run their own clinics and they just have to have doctors look over their cases once a month. I wouldn't mind living in a rural area to practice as a PA as long as I stay the captain of the ship (clinic?).
And dragonfly99, even though PAs and DNPs are making more than you right now, you're a fellow. You're probably gonna make mad amounts of money when you're done and crush all of us financially in the long run.
And dragonfly99, even though PAs and DNPs are making more than you right now, you're a fellow. You're probably gonna make mad amounts of money when you're done and crush all of us financially in the long run.
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Not so sure about that...it depends on one's specialty. And you have to figure in the years of financial stress (not poverty, as some med students and residents who have most likely never been actually poor bitch about) during which you have no income (MD school) and then not a great income with big fat student loans (residency). Like I said, I've been working toward this about 10 years now (NOT counting undergrad) and still making 40k, so you can make of that what you want.
I think PA's and NP's can have autonomy in certain situations. You are right...it is mostly in the podunk places. And you won't be doing surgery, etc. (unless as a surgical assistant) or being a radiologist, etc. In most cases you won't have as much autonomy as an MD, but you also don't have to do residency, which really is quite painful in terms of hours and personal cost, much more so that I think the vast majority of PA's, NP's or med students would think. I know plenty of docs who wish they'd never gone to med school. I'm not one of those, but I understand where they are coming from. I think getting an MD is kind of like some other things such as getting a PhD in science...you should ONLY do it if there's really nothing else you want to do. I've got a lot more happy friends who got a master's degree in science and work in labs, than I do happy friends who got science PhD's. The opportunity costs for PhD and MD, and/or and MD/PhD, is just very high. But we all have to make choices in life, and some of them, such as picking a career or a spouse, are just very important.
I think PA's and NP's can have autonomy in certain situations. You are right...it is mostly in the podunk places. And you won't be doing surgery, etc. (unless as a surgical assistant) or being a radiologist, etc. In most cases you won't have as much autonomy as an MD, but you also don't have to do residency, which really is quite painful in terms of hours and personal cost, much more so that I think the vast majority of PA's, NP's or med students would think. I know plenty of docs who wish they'd never gone to med school. I'm not one of those, but I understand where they are coming from. I think getting an MD is kind of like some other things such as getting a PhD in science...you should ONLY do it if there's really nothing else you want to do. I've got a lot more happy friends who got a master's degree in science and work in labs, than I do happy friends who got science PhD's. The opportunity costs for PhD and MD, and/or and MD/PhD, is just very high. But we all have to make choices in life, and some of them, such as picking a career or a spouse, are just very important.
