CNN: "Doctors going broke"

[Ferocity]

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/05/smallbusiness/doctors_broke/

Some pretty outrageous comments left by people at the bottom of the article...

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[flyhi]

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/05/smallbusiness/doctors_broke/

Some pretty outrageous comments left by people at the bottom of the article...

And THIS is why we need a new administration. The Medicare cuts are drastic and once they cut, they don't come back. If you want a real glimpse of where we are going, head over to Europe for a bit and spend some time around a few doctors and in a hospital. Totally different feel. They are owned by the government and are there to punch a clock. Truly dismal.

 

[347932]

And THIS is why we need a new administration. The Medicare cuts are drastic and once they cut, they don't come back. If you want a real glimpse of where we are going, head over to Europe for a bit and spend some time around a few doctors and in a hospital. Totally different feel. They are owned by the government and are there to punch a clock. Truly dismal.

Yes, that is true. It is much the same in Canada, the exception being certain specialties.

The BIG difference is that in these country you don't go into crazy debts to become a physician. My brother is an anesthesiologist in Canada, and makes very good money. You know what his TOTAL cost for med school was? About $20K, including books, not including room and board, of course. He spent, in four year, what we spend on less than a full year of tuition only. THAT is the truly dismal part imo.

 

[flyhi]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that little tidbit . In the UK they paid NOTHING. Not sure if that changed this year after it was proposed that students start paying for some of their education (remember the London riots last year?), but if so, it was minimal the amount they were discussing.

I would much rather have 250-500k in debt (not hard to do for an OOS med school) and have the ability to make a real living in a capitalistic environment, than be given my education and be told what to do, when to do it and be capped on my earnings.

 

[bobdolerson]

Wait a minute....

So are you saying that when the a private entity with no government oversight controls fiat currency, can print whatever money they please, and guarantees an endless supply of intangible monetary "stuff"....that it causes problems?

That when a government agency uses this "free" money to pay whatever exorbitant fees a college/university/graduate program chooses to charge...these programs will just charge more and more tuition because they can, knowing that Uncle Sam will foot the bill?

Shenanigans!

 

[vinnygo]

They're going broke because of the student loans and also the insurance they have to get if they get sue. It's a tough market even for doctors.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/05/smallbusiness/doctors_broke/

Some pretty outrageous comments left by people at the bottom of the article...

 

[Traum]

The country is changing, medicine is evolving, and practicing doctors will be/are hurting. Still no tort reform like other countries, basically docs are a walking lawsuit waiting to happen. Just watch those day time lawyer commercials.

The massive student loans (unlike other countries whereby it is free) will be suffocating, and ever decreasing reimbursements, increased paperwork/bureacracy will inhibit growth and innovation.

Does not matter that you may be a "doctor"--we are nothing more than taxpayers with few rights, and at the mercy of a govt that is too busy with foreign affairs than domestic issues that affect citizens. Many pay 40-60% taxes, even if you make 200K gross, net is only $~120K add in student loans, practice loans, medical/dental, used car payments, basic utilities, basic clothing/toiletries, and maybe a rental in a middle class neighborhood, the economic burden is very great for a long time (10-15+ years) to do the medicine thing.

Those that proclaim otherwise, either have a trust fund, inherited wealth, had few if any massive student loans, or have a family member in podiatry.

 

[347932]

They're going broke because of the student loans and also the insurance they have to get if they get sue. It's a tough market even for doctors.

No, they are going broke because they are poor business people and have no sense of PR.

 

[Ferocity]

The country is changing, medicine is evolving, and practicing doctors will be/are hurting. Still no tort reform like other countries, basically docs are a walking lawsuit waiting to happen. Just watch those day time lawyer commercials.

The massive student loans (unlike other countries whereby it is free) will be suffocating, and ever decreasing reimbursements, increased paperwork/bureacracy will inhibit growth and innovation.

Does not matter that you may be a "doctor"--we are nothing more than taxpayers with few rights, and at the mercy of a govt that is too busy with foreign affairs than domestic issues that affect citizens. Many pay 40-60% taxes, even if you make 200K gross, net is only $~120K add in student loans, practice loans, medical/dental, used car payments, basic utilities, basic clothing/toiletries, and maybe a rental in a middle class neighborhood, the economic burden is very great for a long time (10-15+ years) to do the medicine thing.

Those that proclaim otherwise, either have a trust fund, inherited wealth, had few if any massive student loans, or have a family member in podiatry.

You trying to tell me that I won't be able to get a Ferrari a couple years out of residency? Damn...

 

[347932]

You trying to tell me that I won't be able to get a Ferrari a couple years out of residency? Damn...

Sure you can. If you want to live in it.

 

[bobdolerson]

Education isn't free, ever. Either the docs pay for it, or everyone pays for it via taxes, or the government promises payment to schools (which makes the cost explode like it is).

If a doctor is going broke, it's because he has poor business sense and hasn't gotten good teammates.

I worked for a man who never went to college and owned a construction company who told me some advice that's seemed pretty useful. Surround yourself with people who understand your field better than you, and learn from them. Get a good lawyer, and get a good accountant, and let them teach you.

Some people are broke from circumstances beyond their control, but it's almost always from a risky decision that didn't pay off, or just poor understanding of what to do to succeed.

There are people who make a hell of a lot less than 150k/year, and they're not all broke.

Cost of living in this country may be rising, but it's not more than that. My dad is a 35 year attorney, and he describes doctors as "the smartest people he knows that are absolute financial idiots". Obviously this isn't applicable to everyone, but for most "broke" doctors, I think it might be the case.

 

[347932]

Some people are broke from circumstances beyond their control, but it's almost always from a risky decision that didn't pay off...

I went broke because I had to rely on others for my immigration status and then trusted a close friend who screwed me, while still waiting for my green card to come through. At 38 years old, I started all over again (with a wife and 3 kids) and thanks to the guidance of a trusted mentor, am on my way to stability and success. The lesson is you can't always succeed, but even if you don't at first, have the fortitude and courage to grab that opportunity when it does come up, and then the good sense to know what to do and how to behave to keep that opportunity and make it yours.

Cost of living in this country may be rising, but it's not more than that. My dad is a 35 year attorney, and he describes doctors as "the smartest people he knows that are absolute financial idiots". Obviously this isn't applicable to everyone, but for most "broke" doctors, I think it might be the case.

The reality is some people have no interest in learning about how to succeed in any profession. That's ok, as long as they surround themselves with at least one person that is. There are also others who think they are gods gift to business, but really are only legends in their own minds. I worked with someone like that, and now he is serious trouble.

 

[bobdolerson]

From what I've gathered here, from other business owners and practicing professionals is to always be in the know regarding every aspect of your business, and while you always want people in your circle that are professionals at what they do, don't be out of the loop with your business.

I hear a lot about people getting blindsided by things and discovering they weren't nearly as successful as they thought they were, and it seems that much of that can be avoided by hiring others to do things so you can spend more time practicing, but not ignoring those issues entirely.

Thanks to all the practicing DPMs that responded to this thread, and all the others with questions about life as a podiatrist.

There aren't exactly a lot of places to go to get a wide batch of opinions, and I can always rely on this place to give advice that's helpful, respectful, and aimed towards helping us students as well as the profession as a whole.

To quote my high school's not-so-eloquent yet brilliant and genial valedictorian, "fo' real, ya'll...thanks."

 

[347932]

I hear a lot about people getting blindsided by things and discovering they weren't nearly as successful as they thought they were, and it seems that much of that can be avoided by hiring others to do things so you can spend more time practicing, but not ignoring those issues entirely.

Part of the issue is that as you get busier in practice you start to have to hand off some of the business side of things as you don't make money sitting at your desk crunching numbers, you make money seeing patients. After spending 10 hours a day seeing patients, do you really want to spend another 4 hours managing the practice?

The answer to that is,"it depends". If you trust your office manager or are in a big practice were the partners can share management duties, there aren't issues. How much do you trust your employees is the real question. People are people and when an employee has no vested interest in the business, trusting them with finances can lead to sticky fingers.

 

[Traum]

Many docs are very poor, VERY poor business people. Remember hearing from a financial expert that if you have junky mutually fund, sell it to dentists, if it is really, really bad, sell it to doctors as they are mostly clueless w/ regards to business, economics, and/or reality. There is much more to practicing medicine than bunions, triples, and ankle scopes. That is technician work.

The key is to learn and read as much as you can about business, money, P/L sheets, balance sheets, tax laws, coding, etc....That is the business savvy part.

Just b/c you do things "right" or work :"hard" does NOT guarantee anything. If working "hard" meant anything, than the vast majority of coal miners, bus drivers, plumbers, landscapers, lawyers, scientists, docs, dentists, would be sitting in the sand, drink in hand. We know otherwise.

Work smart, be very business savvy, and your time is money--just like a lawyer or CPA''s time.