co-applying match and 2nd degree

[adam73180]

Hi, I'm planning on applying for a 2nd degree after med school. But if I don't get in, I'd still like to match.

Timing-wise, I may receive notification of acceptance/rejection as early as January (before submitting ROL) or be waitlisted until as late as April or May (post-match/scramble).

What are my options and different scenarios I might encounter applying to both grad school and the match?
Is it possible to defer residency?
What happens if I submit my ROL, but then get accepted into grad school?
What happens if I match but then get accepted to grad school?
I'm assuming acceptance before ROL submission is the most ideal. But how would this affect me a few years from now when I apply to the match again?
How do you withdraw from the match? How does reapplying after withdrawing affect you?

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[Circumflex]

Once you sign up with the NRMP, it is fairly easy to get out as long as you do so prior to the ROL deadline. Your school has to reqest this. But, I don't think you have to sign up for the match until Dec (not sure on this). I would think that it would be difficult to get out of your match contract, but maybe not impossible.

If you plan on interviewing at the same programs in a few years, they are likely to remember you and that you were not honest about your intentions during your interviews (unless you tell them what you want when you interview).

Are you wanting to go to grad school at one specific place? It shouldn't be too difficult, so why go to the expense of going to residency interviews when you don't want to do a residency at that time?

 

[Dr34566]

When would you hear back from grad?

 

[adam73180]

I doubt I would hear of any acceptances or rejections before applying to the match (December?), and aren't you supposed to apply for the match earlier than December anyways?

So you're saying before February when you submit ROL it's easy to withdraw. What if I hear between Feb ROL submission and match day in March? Can I withdraw then?

What is the recommendation, that I tell interviewers that I'm co-applying to grad school? Or should I wait until I get into grad school first, and deal with reapplying to the same programs when the time comes?

I want to go to grad school in a specific place but if I do not get in I would like to do my residency. What do you suggest, putting all my eggs into the grad school basket?

 

[O Face]

It would seem to me that suggesting graduate school as an alternative to residency during your interviews, while it may be honest, would seriously diminish your chances of getting in there and actually just waste your time interviewing there. A lot of the programs I interviewed at asked me a lot of questions regarding my desire to be in that particular geographical location, such as questions about whether I had family or other ties to their city. Programs really try to get a sense of how committed you are to their program so they don't rank people high on their list who have no intention of coming there.

 

[Wednesday]

What if I hear between Feb ROL submission and match day in March? Can I withdraw then?

No. It's supposed to be a binding contract that once you submit a rank order list and the algorithm is run, you are supposed to keep the position you match into for one year. Why don't you just apply to grad school? I would be suprised if you don't get in, you're going to have an MD.

 

[adam73180]

Yeah, I thought I'd probably be better off not mention grad school to residency programs. Thanks O.

No. It's supposed to be a binding contract that once you submit a rank order list and the algorithm is run, you are supposed to keep the position you match into for one year. Why don't you just apply to grad school? I would be suprised if you don't get in, you're going to have an MD.

What if you submit a ROL but the algorithm hasn't been run yet?

So what is the best way to do this? Should I really not apply to residency? I'm only applying to extremely competitive programs, so not getting in is a real possibility. If I don't get in, I want to do residency. What should I do?

 

[Spooky]

Typically, people apply to programs starting in September, with most interviews in Dec/Jan. Once you submit your ROL on February 21st, it is legal and binding. That means that if you match and then try and withdraw, your program can sue you. It will also kill your chances at ever obtaining another good residency. People who typically change their minds after the match ride out intern year and reapply to another specialty.

The only way I figure that it makes sense to apply at the same time is if you are accepted to grad school (law school? PhD?), you can defer grad school and finish out intern year and then leave residency. That way you get your medical license too (need to complete an intern year).

However, you should consider that academic programs often encourage research years - which can also be spent getting a JD, MBA, or PhD, often with funding from your home program. Just something to consider.

 

[adam73180]

Typically, people apply to programs starting in September, with most interviews in Dec/Jan. Once you submit your ROL on February 21st, it is legal and binding. That means that if you match and then try and withdraw, your program can sue you. It will also kill your chances at ever obtaining another good residency. People who typically change their minds after the match ride out intern year and reapply to another specialty.

The only way I figure that it makes sense to apply at the same time is if you are accepted to grad school (law school? PhD?), you can defer grad school and finish out intern year and then leave residency. That way you get your medical license too (need to complete an intern year).

However, you should consider that academic programs often encourage research years - which can also be spent getting a JD, MBA, or PhD, often with funding from your home program. Just something to consider.

If you defer, finish intern year, leave residency, go to grad school, can you come back and finish your residency?

Is there a way to know what research programs offer funding for grad school and/or have research years?

But otherwise, are you suggesting not to apply to residency and just putting all my eggs in the grad school basket? I just would prefer to not wait around a year if I do not get into grad school.

 

[Spooky]

It would be helpful to know what kind of Grad school you are talking about. Going out and getting a Masters in International Relations is going to be harder to sell than an MPH, for example.

It may depend on what specialty you are interested in too. For surgery, many big name programs (MGH, BWH, Penn, Hopkins, UCLA, UCSF, etc) actually require (officially or unofficially) 2 years of research in residency. You are guaranteed funding for lab research, but if you can make a sound arguement for why something else fits into your career goals, they may provide funding for school too. I know Penn has on occasion sent people through Wharton, but you need a really good reason. UCLA actually encouraged taking 3 years research and getting a PhD. I'm sure that IM would offer opportunities as well.

I don't know if you can go back and complete residency after intern year at your home institution, I'm sre that would be up to them.. They may give you a leave of absence, but may want you to do it after PGY-2 year. I've never heard of anyone doing it after intern year. If you don't want to practice medicine though, you may as well just get your license and then leave for whatever other field.

 

[adam73180]

It would be helpful to know what kind of Grad school you are talking about. Going out and getting a Masters in International Relations is going to be harder to sell than an MPH, for example.

It may depend on what specialty you are interested in too. For surgery, many big name programs (MGH, BWH, Penn, Hopkins, UCLA, UCSF, etc) actually require (officially or unofficially) 2 years of research in residency. You are guaranteed funding for lab research, but if you can make a sound arguement for why something else fits into your career goals, they may provide funding for school too. I know Penn has on occasion sent people through Wharton, but you need a really good reason. UCLA actually encouraged taking 3 years research and getting a PhD. I'm sure that IM would offer opportunities as well.

I don't know if you can go back and complete residency after intern year at your home institution, I'm sre that would be up to them.. They may give you a leave of absence, but may want you to do it after PGY-2 year. I've never heard of anyone doing it after intern year. If you don't want to practice medicine though, you may as well just get your license and then leave for whatever other field.

I'm still considering a couple different programs but none will be a MPH. The closest thing to that I am applying for is a combined MPP/MPA program. So it will be a hard sell.

When you say "provide funding", do you mean they pay for it, or they just let you take time from residency to do it? Is there a centralized way to find out which programs would possibly provide funding for grad school?

You seem to be suggesting applying to a residency that allows time off first, but I would prefer to finish schooling before residency instead of taking time off during residency. Do you think double applying is wise or not so wise?

 

[adam73180]

bump

 

[Notmyrealname]

Many of those programs listed pay for your graduate education. I know a surgical resident at BWH who got his master's in education during residency, so don't definitely write off MPP/MPA as a stretch.