MD & DO co'21 Residency Panic thread

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@Matthew9Thirtyfive @Lawpy

So i had an idea. Correct me if I'm wrong but I did little bit of math on the Match Data in a non-competitive specialty like IM. Takes a-lot of different types of applicants so I figured that would be a good summary.

Step 2 reported 498 of unmatched/matched have reported score. 235 of matched+unmatched have a "score unknown" which I'm gonna assume means you did not take it.

67 % of DOs that applied to at least 1 IM spot took step 2.

Step 1 reported 561 of matched/unmatched w/ reported score. 206 of Unmatched + matched have reported "score unknown.

73% of DOs that applied to at least 1 IM spot took step 1.

Could different specialties like FM change the numbers maybe but i thought it was pretty cool stat.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Right. So if 2/3 to 3/4 of DOs are taking step now, and the difference is non-statistical, then the data show that the mean scores are the same for the vast majority of DOs.

But I’m curious what the actual percentage is.
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It's about 60% as of last year I believe. Don't have a source, but there's a thread discussing it in the DO forums.
 
getfat said:
@Matthew9Thirtyfive @Lawpy

So i had an idea. Correct me if I'm wrong but I did little bit of math on the Match Data in a non-competitive specialty like IM. Takes a-lot of different types of applicants so I figured that would be a good summary.

Step 2 reported 498 of unmatched/matched have reported score. 235 of matched+unmatched have a "score unknown" which I'm gonna assume means you did not take it.

67 % of DOs that applied to at least 1 IM spot took step 2.

Step 1 reported 561 of matched/unmatched w/ reported score. 206 of Unmatched + matched have reported "score unknown.

73% of DOs that applied to at least 1 IM spot took step 1.

Could different specialties like FM change the numbers maybe but i thought it was pretty cool stat.
Click to expand...

That’s an interesting thought. The only thing that kind of pokes a hole in that is that there are non-zero score unknown values for MDs for step 1 too lol.
 
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slowthai said:
It's about 60% as of last year I believe. Don't have a source, but there's a thread discussing it in the DO forums.
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Okay, so almost 2/3. That’s a pretty good proportion. Not quite enough to extrapolate though.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
That’s an interesting thought. The only thing that kind of pokes a hole in that is that there are non-zero score unknown values for MDs for step 1 too lol.
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Good point. ~38 of USMDs that applied to at least one IM spot do not have a step 1 score reported.

So quick math showed ~98.89% of USMD that applied to atleast one IM spot had a reported step 1 score.

Idk what that ~1.1% is doing. But i guess thats a question for another day.
 
getfat said:
Good point. ~38 of USMDs that applied to at least one IM spot do not have a step 1 score reported.

So quick math showed ~98.89% of USMD that applied to atleast one IM spot had a reported step 1 score.

Idk what that ~1.1% is doing. But i guess thats a question for another day.
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Yeah I dunno. An issue with reporting I’m guessing.
 
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getfat said:
Good point. ~38 of USMDs that applied to at least one IM spot do not have a step 1 score reported.

So quick math showed ~98.89% of USMD that applied to atleast one IM spot had a reported step 1 score.

Idk what that ~1.1% is doing. But i guess thats a question for another day.
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I could see that many people just not realizing they have to pay to release their scores from nbme lol
 
Speaking of pre-med shiz, my transcripts from my med school include my undergrad GPA/courses lmao (school cant separate them, went to UG and med school at same place). First thing these programs are seeing when they open my transcripts are the boat load of C/Ds i got freshman and sophomore year oooof
 
That is crazy! I didn't know this was a thing but it makes sense, thanks for sharing
 
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TheGift said:
This has probably been discussed to death on here but anyone else feel like interview hoarding is real? Hence the 4th round of the soap?
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Yes I don't think anyone thinks it's not real. Granted there's a sampling bias on SDN and Reddit because those who scored well and got lots of IIs were the ones who post there.....but looking at the threads from last year, IIs this year are going to folks with much better stats than last year.
 
Oligodinero said:
Yes I don't think anyone thinks it's not real. Granted there's a sampling bias on SDN and Reddit because those who scored well and got lots of IIs were the ones who post there.....but looking at the threads from last year, IIs this year are going to folks with much better stats than last year.
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Yeah 100% hoarding is real. I think it's going to hit some specialties a lot harder than others though
 
Oligodinero said:
Yes I don't think anyone thinks it's not real. Granted there's a sampling bias on SDN and Reddit because those who scored well and got lots of IIs were the ones who post there.....but looking at the threads from last year, IIs this year are going to folks with much better stats than last year.
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It is real! For surgery I got email from three or four mid-tier/low-tier programs saying that the interview slots were full and in prior years they had giant waitlist movements, but that wouldn't be the case this year since no one was dropping. Without financial limitations or logistics (you can't fly from one coast to another and the interview days were much longer last year), it's possible to go to way more.

I am currently on one waitlist but since no one is dropping so 0 hope for that one. I have a lot of invites I'd prefer over this program though, so not super bummed.
 
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why would PDs interview applicants that historically haven't matched their programs (other than pure ego)? Cant believe a bunch of $hitty HCA programs are acting stuck up this cycle. It's like the obese chick who's been getting too much tinder attention and is starting to believe it. Appreciate the responses.
 
We need application caps now!

Interview hoarding was 100% preventable if application caps were implemented and enforced! Zoom interviews just gave applicants a huge incentive to hoard as many interviews as possible because there's a much lower cost of doing so
 
TheGift said:
why would PDs interview applicants that historically haven't matched their programs (other than pure ego)? Cant believe a bunch of $hitty HCA programs are acting stuck up this cycle. It's like the obese chick who's been getting too much tinder attention and is starting to believe it. Appreciate the responses.
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Prestige matters a lot in medicine. I also guarantee some PDs think DOs are snake-oil using chiropracticing mf's.
 
Lawpy said:
We need application caps now!

Interview hoarding was 100% preventable if application caps were implemented and enforced! Zoom interviews just gave applicants a huge incentive to hoard as many interviews as possible because there's a much lower cost of doing so
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there should have been interview caps imo b/c the few places that have sent me interviews have been very random this year. If we limit all applicants to 12 then problem solved. Expecting a mega SOAP...
 
TheGift said:
there should have been interview caps imo b/c the few places that have sent me interviews have been very random this year. If we limit all applicants to 12 then problem solved. Expecting a mega SOAP...
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There should be both app and interview caps imo. Can't have the interview waitlist be piling up and an even bigger flood of LOIs
 
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Lawpy said:
There should be both app and interview caps imo. Can't have the interview waitlist be piling up and an even bigger flood of LOIs
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You don’t need both. If you have application caps, someone with a randomly weird cycle might end up with next to no interviews. If they can apply broadly, but you cap interviews then they can’t hoard but you don’t leave anyone in the lurch with a flawed system.
 
Lawpy said:
There should be both app and interview caps imo. Can't have the interview waitlist be piling up and an even bigger flood of LOIs
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Wait until you apply to a competitive specialty...and you are forced to cap the number of apps and interviews. I am getting interviews at couple top programs that if I was forced to cap the apps, I would have otherwise not applied...aka gotten interviews This process is completely unpredictable...and I can't imagine the stress having to really pick which programs to apply because of the cap number.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
You don’t need both. If you have application caps, someone with a randomly weird cycle might end up with next to no interviews. If they can apply broadly, but you cap interviews then they can’t hoard but you don’t leave anyone in the lurch with a flawed system.
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frenchyn said:
Wait until you apply to a competitive specialty...and you are forced to cap the number of apps and interviews. I am getting interviews at couple top programs that if I was forced to cap the apps, I would have otherwise not gotten. This process is completely unpredictable...and I can't imagine the stress having to really pick which programs to apply because of the cap number.
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Won't that make the interview waitlist even longer and worse by just having interview caps?
 
Lawpy said:
Didn't know that. Ok having only interview caps makes sense.

But who's enforcing that?
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ERAS could have easily enforced it since interview invites and scheduling goes through them. Then there could have been exceptions for couple matching etc...im suggesting a solution to a problem that has already happened so too late now. Just saying cant believe they couldnt figure this out. If those are the cream of the crop in medicine when it comes to basic common sense and intelligence then that explains alot of things that go on in this country.
 
Agreed. I think we should've had interview caps, but that would require programs to read for a month then send out releases. A lot of programs gonna SOAP this year since they keep picking the same candidates. lol. On the bright side? Probably need less interviews to match or a higher chance of matching at your top? On the negative a lot of lower stats people or people who applied to few programs are not getting interviews.
 
There are downsides to both application cap and interview cap. With an application cap, you may end up with 0 II even after carefully applying to only programs you're interested in. If you have an interview cap, then what happens if you're getting closer to the cap number and still haven't gotten interviews to your top programs. Do you start canceling IIs? If you do, then what if you end up never receiving those top IIs?
 
DrStephenStrange said:
There are downsides to both application cap and interview cap. With an application cap, you may end up with 0 II even after carefully applying to only programs you're interested in. If you have an interview cap, then what happens if you're getting closer to the cap number and still haven't gotten interviews to your top programs. Do you start canceling IIs? If you do, then what if you end up never receiving those top IIs?
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There are ways to mitigate the latter. Some specialties already release the bulk of their interviews on a certain day, no? Could easily do that.
 
Yeah I’ve come around. Interview caps is the best answer. I’ve gotten interviews at places I probably wouldn’t have even applied to with application caps. And I’ve been ghosted by programs I thought would be safeties.

The only way application caps work is if programs are transparent about what they’re looking for. And they never will be.
 
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Forget application caps and interview caps. All of this could be solved if they released matches much earlier and they spread SOAP to at least 2 weeks.
 
I like what ENT did with unlimited apps but 5 "tokens" to indicate your favorites. I can see a few overly optimistic people screwing themselves by spending all their tokens at big names. But for the average applicant that's a fantastic way to make sure a few of your favorite random/mid-tier/safety programs know you're actually interested and interview you, as well as telling your dream program or two that they're your favorites.
 
efle said:
I like what ENT did with unlimited apps but 5 "tokens" to indicate your favorites. I can see a few overly optimistic people screwing themselves by spending all their tokens at big names. But for the average applicant that's a fantastic way to make sure a few of your favorite random/mid-tier/safety programs know you're actually interested and interview you, as well as telling your dream program or two that they're your favorites.
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I love this system, it makes so much sense to me. Gets rid of the whole premise of programs trying to figure out who is actually interested.
 
Ho0v-man said:
Yeah I’ve come around. Interview caps is the best answer. I’ve gotten interviews at places I probably wouldn’t have even applied to with application caps. And I’ve been ghosted by programs I thought would be safeties.

The only way application caps work is if programs are transparent about what they’re looking for. And they never will be.
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+1 man I would’ve been screwed this year if there had been an application cap. If I were to make a list of programs I applied to based on my subjective intuition about where I believed I would’ve gotten an interview, with the exception of my two sub-Is there are maybe 2 programs that would’ve been in the top half. I haven’t really gotten any big reaches but I’ve definitely been ghosted by programs I thought would be a safe bet.
 
scrublyfe21 said:
+1 man I would’ve been screwed this year if there had been an application cap. If I were to make a list of programs I applied to based on my subjective intuition about where I believed I would’ve gotten an interview, with the exception of my two sub-Is there are maybe 2 programs that would’ve been in the top half. I haven’t really gotten any big reaches but I’ve definitely been ghosted by programs I thought would be a safe bet.
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That’s why application caps are a terrible idea.
 
TheGift said:
ERAS could have easily enforced it since interview invites and scheduling goes through them. Then there could have been exceptions for couple matching etc...im suggesting a solution to a problem that has already happened so too late now. Just saying cant believe they couldnt figure this out. If those are the cream of the crop in medicine when it comes to basic common sense and intelligence then that explains alot of things that go on in this country.
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Most of my interviews have been scheduled outside of ERAS... everyone would have to use ERAS scheduling in order to limit interviews that way.

I too have come around to the idea that interview caps are the answer, but only if there is a system in place that people don’t miss out on interviews to their top programs simply because those programs released interviews later. I have definitely received a number of invites from places I never would have applied to if there was an application cap.
 
So interview caps + tokens to show interest + everyone using ERAS for interview scheduling + batch interviews sent early from everywhere (so people don't miss out) + ban post interview "we'll rank you #1" emails is the way to go?
 
Prehealth1011 said:
Prestige matters a lot in medicine. I also guarantee some PDs think DOs are snake-oil using chiropracticing mf's.
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Ehhh idk about that overall. I'm sure there are quite a few who think that, but I've been fairly successful with my application thus far as a lowly DO applying to a surgical field with fairly average to a bit above average stats. Methinks the merger might honestly have been beneficial dare I say it
 
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TheGift said:
ERAS could have easily enforced it since interview invites and scheduling goes through them. Then there could have been exceptions for couple matching etc...im suggesting a solution to a problem that has already happened so too late now. Just saying cant believe they couldnt figure this out. If those are the cream of the crop in medicine when it comes to basic common sense and intelligence then that explains alot of things that go on in this country.
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If you think that these people are “the cream of the crop” you need to reevaluate. Those that can’t do, become administrators. Medical schools like to proclaim that we are all special snowflakes and are the best and brightest. Hate to burst everyone’s giant ego but there are a ton of smart people going into other fields as well. People in medicine just get off to thinking that they’re smarter than everyone else. If you think I’m wrong, wait until your IM rotation. What drives me especially nuts is when docs think that their medical degree suddenly makes them an authority on any/every subject.
 
efle said:
I like what ENT did with unlimited apps but 5 "tokens" to indicate your favorites. I can see a few overly optimistic people screwing themselves by spending all their tokens at big names. But for the average applicant that's a fantastic way to make sure a few of your favorite random/mid-tier/safety programs know you're actually interested and interview you, as well as telling your dream program or two that they're your favorites.
Click to expand...
I’m applying ENT and I actually think the token system has not worked that well. Programs cannot be forced to interview someone even if they give a token and they are inviting top applicants without tokens over average + token. In a year with 530 USMD applicants for 330 spots, every program knows that they will fill, token or not.
 
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