MD & DO co'21 Residency Panic thread

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Ideally we would live in a world where saying thank you at the end of the interview in person is enough and that a second written version isn't needed. But since many like to abide by the thank you note tradition (not just in medicine mind you), it's probably okay to send one just to be on the ultra safe side, even though there's a 99.9% chance it makes to difference. I think that's about it.
 
mehc012 said:
The bolded sentence demonstrates EXACTLY why these are meaningless. Personally, I find it almost rude/inconsiderate to send an insincere note or say something nice that you don't mean...it's why I never want to live in the South again. Gives me a complex, knowing that people fake friendliness.
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lol at the idea that common courtesy is fake or meaningless.

Banco said:
Ideally we would live in a world where saying thank you at the end of the interview in person is enough and that a second written version isn't needed. But since many like to abide by the thank you note tradition (not just in medicine mind you), it's probably okay to send one just to be on the ultra safe side, even though there's a 99.9% chance it makes to difference. I think that's about it.
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I don't think most of us saying we would send thank you notes are saying it's necessary. I agree that it shouldn't be considered a requirement.
 
Judging from the IM spreadsheet, it feels like there's a ton of programs still that have yet to send out even a single invite. Idk if that's actually accurate or people just haven't been updating the chart.

I just find it hard to believe that we're a month+ in now and it feels like nothing but silence from a lot of programs
 
Doc-Thor said:
Judging from the IM spreadsheet, it feels like there's a ton of programs still that have yet to send out even a single invite. Idk if that's actually accurate or people just haven't been updating the chart.

I just find it hard to believe that we're a month+ in now and it feels like nothing but silence from a lot of programs
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Yes, this whole process has been very unpredictable and confusing.
 
boolin_1 said:
I know of at least one EM residency program that uses a point system for their rank list, and ‘post interview thank you note’ gets you a point. So I send them
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It's stuff like this that people get annoyed and frustrated at programs for intentionally adding more hoops and adding more uncertainty to the process
 
Doc-Thor said:
Judging from the IM spreadsheet, it feels like there's a ton of programs still that have yet to send out even a single invite. Idk if that's actually accurate or people just haven't been updating the chart.

I just find it hard to believe that we're a month+ in now and it feels like nothing but silence from a lot of programs
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On the surgery sheet also about 10% haven't sent a single invite.
 
Honestly, it takes less time to actually write a thank you letter (heck, even a personalized one) than the time people spent here typing arguments against them.

As meaningless they may be, it's nothing more than a courtesy move, just like every other time you say thank you to someone in your daily lives. They should be thanking you for taking the time to look up their program, prepare for an interview, and actually interview there. And you should be thanking them for taking the time to listen to you talk about yourself and answering the same questions about their program x500. Time is money after all.
 
Diphyllobothrium latum said:
As meaningless they may be, it's nothing more than a courtesy move, just like every other time you say thank you to someone in your daily lives. They should be thanking you for taking the time to look up their program, prepare for an interview, and actually interview there. And you should be thanking them for taking the time to listen to you talk about yourself and answering the same questions about their program x500. Time is money after all.
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Its one thing if I was like "Yo, no more questions, peace out *click*" But both me and the program said all that and thanked each other at the end of every interview. I've gotten more positive feedback out of a genuine "thank you" face-to-face vs a generic email. Like you said, time is money, and I'm not wasting time to write an email that gets deleted within seconds.
 
nervousbreakdown247 said:
Hey everyone,

Been on SDN for a long time now but this is my first post. I'm hoping someone can offer me some sort of advice or anything. I'm getting incredibly nervous and scared about this cycle.

I'm applying to FM and Peds - I only have 5 interviews so far (4 FM and 1 Peds) and have not really heard back from many other schools. Taken part in 3 of the 5 interviews so far and loved all the programs. I've only got about 10 rejections and applied to about 250 programs. I am a non-US IMG and will be graduating this year. Step 1 score is on the lower end (200-210 range) but went up 21 points on my CK (220-230 range), first pass for both. I have research experience, great work experience and a lot of volunteer experience. I honoured or got an A in all my clerkships. LORs are from IM PD, FM APD, Peds APD and FM doctor I shadowed for years. I'd say I'm an extremely friendly and normal individual so I feel like my interviews and future interviews (hopefully) should be great.

My last invite was 2 weeks ago and have barely heard anything since then (only got like 2-3 rejections during this 2 week period). I'm getting nervous with this cycle as I thought I applied broadly enough to have received more invites than this. My goal was to get 10-15 invites which I thought was very reasonable..

I sent out a few letters of interests to my top programs, which are IMG friendly and very within my reach I would say based off their stats, but have not heard back from anyone yet. I keep telling myself that no answer is better than a rejection, but god spending my time on SDN and Reddit is slowly crushing all my hopes with everything.

Hoping someone could help me out with some advice here or even tell me if that number of interviews is appropriate at this stage? I know some of you USMD/DOs have >10 invites so I'm just very anxious about all of this lately.

Thank you all and good luck!
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Without wanting to come off as rude, I think you need to change your perspective - we have no official stats yet, but this seems to be an extremely competitive year for non-US IMGs, because of the huge increase in the average number of applications and interviews attended by US graduates.

FM and Peds are by no means at the same level as IM in terms of competitiveness, but I would consider 5 IIs as a huge win. According to the Interactive NRMP tool, there have been 128 applicants with the same Step scores as yours that applied to FM since 2016, and only 60 of them matched. That's less than 50%. For Peds, that's 27/61 (44%) and for IM that's a whopping 76/263 (29%). I've actually seen many people quit with similar scores. Given that you have this many interviews at this point, you have quite high chances of matching and so you should actually feel relieved and accomplished rather than dissapointed.
 
getfat said:
I would be ok w/ it for the 30+ IV horders w/ insane stats. Theres probably only a handful.

But you're literally screwing your collegues at this point.
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There are several in my class. I wouldn't put it past them to attend all 30.
 
Doc-Thor said:
Judging from the IM spreadsheet, it feels like there's a ton of programs still that have yet to send out even a single invite. Idk if that's actually accurate or people just haven't been updating the chart.

I just find it hard to believe that we're a month+ in now and it feels like nothing but silence from a lot of programs
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Participation in the google doc feels a lot lower compared to previous years.
 
Update for me: Sitting at 20 interviews and another 11 for TY. Have started dropping some already. I’ve had 6 interviews so far and seem to have gotten pretty good feedback (I know not to trust what PDs say completely). Not sure how many interviews I’ll actually take for PM&R, thinking 15-17. Some interview days are a breeze, others... not so much
 
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Lawpy said:
Thoughts on banning all post interview communication altogether? No more fake "we'll rank you #1 so dont bother interviewing" emails, and PDs wont be flooded with thousands of thank you notes
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This is actually what programs have been telling me along the interview trail, though. Nearly every program has said "Please do not feel you have to send a thank you note", and some have blatantly banned post interview communication of any sort.
 
Diphyllobothrium latum said:
Without wanting to come off as rude, I think you need to change your perspective - we have no official stats yet, but this seems to be an extremely competitive year for non-US IMGs, because of the huge increase in the average number of applications and interviews attended by US graduates.

FM and Peds are by no means at the same level as IM in terms of competitiveness, but I would consider 5 IIs as a huge win. According to the Interactive NRMP tool, there have been 128 applicants with the same Step scores as yours that applied to FM since 2016, and only 60 of them matched. That's less than 50%. For Peds, that's 27/61 (44%) and for IM that's a whopping 76/263 (29%). I've actually seen many people quit with similar scores. Given that you have this many interviews at this point, you have quite high chances of matching and so you should actually feel relieved and accomplished rather than dissapointed.
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Not at all rude, in fact, that was really friendly and reassuring. I know that this year is unlike any other application year with everything that is going on. I did not realize that those were the previous stats for FM/Peds/IM! I'm extremely grateful and happy to have as many interview invites as I do so far - just hearing about others having 2-4 times as much was beginning to really concern me for myself. Thank you for giving me a great answer and for making me feel better about my situation rather than disappointed. I've always wanted to go into FM from the start so it was never a back-up option for me so I'm hopeful that this match cycle will go in my favor. Thank you again for your advice, it's truly appreciated!
 
medstar11 said:
I have 13 out of 37 programs I applied to for FM. Average DO student with slightly below average COMLEX and no USMLE. No programs I have ties to though which is SUPER weird in my opinion. My home state and hometown programs have ghosted me.
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21 II. 48 applications. FM. Well below avg comlex. Must’ve had killer LORs or something.
 
For people applying IM, will there be another "wave" of interview invitations? All my IIs were in the first couple weeks and nothing since then.
 
Lu_Xun said:
For people applying IM, will there be another "wave" of interview invitations? All my IIs were in the first couple weeks and nothing since then.
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I've had a few trickle in over the last two weeks. But yeah other than that, I'm the same way. I think there might be more programs sending some out throughout Nov and Dec if people start cancelling invites. But who knows. I'm sure hoping they send more
 
Lu_Xun said:
For people applying IM, will there be another "wave" of interview invitations? All my IIs were in the first couple weeks and nothing since then.
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I don’t anticipate many more waves, if any. I think there will be some bursts or trickles here and there.
 
I think I sent LOIs a little too late. I’ve had several interviews from them. But the ones I sent later only resulted in waitlists because everything is full or random last minute time slots, if anything at all.

I almost feel like I got gunned by buying into the whole “don’t send an LOI too early” business.
 
If a program (I won’t name them) reduced its residency class size within the past couple years, should this be a red flag? I didn’t want to ask why on interview day ‘cause I didn’t wanna piss anybody off in one of my first interviews. They said they were working to increase their class size back up when I asked what the program was trying to improve on so I feel like it isn’t a good thing but I don’t know.

EDIT: diagnostic radiology is the specialty
 
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NecrotizingFasciitis said:
If a program (I won’t name them) reduced its residency class size within the past couple years, should this be a red flag? I didn’t want to ask why on interview day ‘cause I didn’t wanna piss anybody off in one of my first interviews. They said they were working to increase their class size back up when I asked what the program was trying to improve on so I feel like it isn’t a good thing but I don’t know.
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My gut feeling would be that the volume isn’t high enough to support as many residents as they had. I don’t know if this applies to more hands-off specialties like psych and peds but I’d imagine for stuff like EM and surgery it would matter if you’ve got 3rd years who aren’t signed off on things. I might be biased because all my interviews emphasize that they meet their procedure counts by the end of intern year.
 
scrublyfe21 said:
My gut feeling would be that the volume isn’t high enough to support as many residents as they had. I don’t know if this applies to more hands-off specialties like psych and peds but I’d imagine for stuff like EM and surgery it would matter if you’ve got 3rd years who aren’t signed off on things. I might be biased because all my interviews emphasize that they meet their procedure counts by the end of intern year.
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I should have mentioned the specialty (diagnostic radiology) where volume is very important.

This program is known for having great volume though and has a large healthcare system so I wondered if it was something worse than just not having enough volume? But I don't know the ins/outs of how big a programs' class size can be.
 
NecrotizingFasciitis said:
I should have mentioned the specialty (diagnostic radiology) where volume is very important.

This program is known for having great volume though and has a large healthcare system so I wondered if it was something worse than just not having enough volume? But I don't know the ins/outs of how big a programs' class size can be.
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Lack of volume is the main reason why a program decreases class size. Sometimes it's a matter of a program overestimating its volume when they initially applied for an increase in complement and then having to give up those spots a couple years down the road. If the program you're talking about has not increased its complement recently and they have reduced their class size after years of stability, I would think something fishy is going on. Is the patient volume down? Is hospital losing money and not ordering borderline necessary imaging in order to save on costs? Are they training PAs/NPs to read films rather than giving them to their residents? These are all valid concerns and if this is a program you think you might rank highly, it's not impolite to be asking these questions.
 
curbsideconsult said:
Lack of volume is the main reason why a program decreases class size. Sometimes it's a matter of a program overestimating its volume when they initially applied for an increase in complement and then having to give up those spots a couple years down the road. If the program you're talking about has not increased its complement recently and they have reduced their class size after years of stability, I would think something fishy is going on. Is the patient volume down? Is hospital losing money and not ordering borderline necessary imaging in order to save on costs? Are they training PAs/NPs to read films rather than giving them to their residents? These are all valid concerns and if this is a program you think you might rank highly, it's not impolite to be asking these questions.
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This is very useful, thank you. I might reach out to one of the residents to clarify.
 
Ho0v-man said:
I think I sent LOIs a little too late. I’ve had several interviews from them. But the ones I sent later only resulted in waitlists because everything is full or random last minute time slots, if anything at all.

I almost feel like I got gunned by buying into the whole “don’t send an LOI too early” business.
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Yeah I sent my LOIs the first week just because I didn't want to risk it.
 
Ho0v-man said:
I think I sent LOIs a little too late. I’ve had several interviews from them. But the ones I sent later only resulted in waitlists because everything is full or random last minute time slots, if anything at all.

I almost feel like I got gunned by buying into the whole “don’t send an LOI too early” business.
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Eh. I sent way too many LOIs very very early and got a grand total yield of zero interviews from them.
 
I sent out LOIs 2 weeks ago and they have yielded 0 interviews. I don't think anyone was trying to sabotage by saying we should wait.
 
i wonder if LOIs have lost all value this cycle hearing how people are sending out double digits when traditionally, to my understanding, it was a more curated handful of programs you would reach out to. like, yes, some people report having had some success, but we can't say for sure whether that invite would have came even without the LOI.
 
soundnin said:
i wonder if LOIs have lost all value this cycle hearing how people are sending out double digits when traditionally, to my understanding, it was a more curated handful of programs you would reach out to. like, yes, some people report having had some success, but we can't say for sure whether that invite would have came even without the LOI.
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I was typing up an LOI to a program I was interested to last night, but never got a chance to finish. I was invited to the program today. Had I sent it, I'd say "Wow I got an II from a LOI!" But that wouldn't have been the case. Just food for thought.
 
I was personally emailed by a PD thanking me for the letter and telling me to expect an interview as they would love to meet me. Later that day I got an interview. It was not in the spreadsheet as a typical wave of interviews. This was for a top program and probably my number one choice.

This happened a couple of times. YMMV
 
mandu_cheeks said:
^same scenario happened to me twice! This is how I got invites from some of my reach programs. I also got ghosted by other programs I've sent letters to, though. This whole system is a crapshoot lol
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Samesies. This has only worked for reaches now that I think about it! Programs you’d think I’d just reasonably be extended an interview in a normal cycle that I’ve reached out to have ghosted me. It’s bananas.
 
Has anyone gotten logged off the psych spreadsheet? My friend got logged off of it and is super frustrated lol.
 
ace_inhibitor111 said:
Would it be appropriate to email orthopaedic residency programs regarding a new Step 2 CK score before they send out all their trickle interview invites? I feel like it would really help me (275+) and wasn’t sure if updating ERAS was sufficient.

Also, my friend has gotten an O-SLOE today that now makes his EM app complete (3/3 required now). Would it be a good idea to email the PC/PD about it as well?

Thank you!
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Not sure with your friends case, but in yours I would!
 
Anyone getting hardcore gunning in their respective specialty sheets? People in ortho are marking programs as having sent IIs that havent, deleting comments, messing with the interview # data, and even editing peoples phone numbers in the interview swap tab smh
 
Scrubs101 said:
Anyone getting hardcore gunning in their respective specialty sheets? People in ortho are marking programs as having sent IIs that havent, deleting comments, messing with the interview # data, and even editing peoples phone numbers in the interview swap tab smh
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Bruh as a fellow DO ortho applicant... how you holding up? And hows the IVs been for you?
 
throwaway199 said:
Bruh as a fellow DO ortho applicant... how you holding up? And hows the IVs been for you?
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Def feel f*cked by the DO degree, but I’m happy with what I’ve got. Got 6 and waiting on 2 more places i auditioned at to release and not so hopeful about 2 WLs. But two of my 6 have overlapping singular interview dates, trying to see if i can get it to work out.

Got completely shut down by my entire home state II wise though lol (aside from auditions)

hoping this trickle people are talking about is real, plus i think a good chunk of DO programs havent released yet
 
Scrubs101 said:
Def feel f*cked by the DO degree, but I’m happy with what I’ve got. Got 6 and waiting on 2 more places i auditioned at to release and not so hopeful about 2 WLs. But two of my 6 have overlapping singular interview dates, trying to see if i can get it to work out.

Got completely shut down by my entire home state II wise though lol (aside from auditions)

hoping this trickle people are talking about is real, plus i think a good chunk of DO programs havent released yet
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Dude same. We have very similar stats... and I knew going into this the DO bias but holy **** its for real smhhh
 
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