Code Words and Fallacies!!!

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noodle

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I am very happy to see SDN Back!! It is getting very old to her about Research vs. Clinical Institutions when it comes to the subject of undergraduate dental school. This is the truth and it is very important to understand the concept before final selection of a college you plan on spending four years and $$$$$$$$$$$! Research is a code work for going to class, studying and taking test. You may get a chance to work under a professor that has government dollars to do a study on Cad Cam or Periostat or HIV etc. but you are basically going to class, reading and taking test! Some of you may feel confortable doing this but it will not prepare you to do what 99% of DDS's and DMD's do several years out of Dental School. That is why these schools push their students in to specialties and GRP's. Because all the do is lecture and give tests. They use to code word Clinical Competence! Some even use to code work Cultural Competance what ever that means for you Wolvorine fans. The concept should be Clinical excellence and Professionalism! Clinical Institutions is the code word for become a fully functioning Dentist! That's right! A Dentist! Think about it before you spend four years reading, studying and taking tests. You are getting a DDS or DMD not a PhD! Hope we all make the right decision!😍 😍 😍
 
Tsk tsk tsk. Sounds like you got into a "clinical" school. Bitter?
 
Schools have code words so listen to what they say and read between the lines. I got offers at many schools and made an informed choice. This is the most important decision you will make. Bitter students get lawyers! You know, like the Supreme Court case to be decided in a few months. Be informed. This should not be an emotional decision. Hope you make the right choice. 😱 😱 😉
 
I wouldn't say it's THE most important decision you will make. It's pretty important, but a few short years after graduation, we'll all be shooting just about par as far as clinical kills are concerned.

I prefer a "clinical' school only because I know that is where I'll be happiest. It would be torture for me to know that I wouldn't even be seeing the clinic until the end of my second year. Can't wait to get some latex on these hands and the soft, sweet sound of a compressor in the background. 🙂
 
I don't know what school you're referring to be here at Michigan, where we are Wolverines incidentally, not "Wolvorines" (jeez man, how many misspellings can you have in one post? but I digress...), we're up in clinic the first month of school and every week thereafter. This includes doing sealants, placing and finishing composite restorations, etc. Not just sucking spit and handing amalgam carriers.

Oh, and next time you feel like knocking research, take a minute and think about where the latest and greatest clinical materials you're using are coming from. How about how composites have improved to decrease marginal leakage, improve esthetics, and last longer? Or what about tissue engineering technologies which will improve to the point where we will be able to regenerate the peridontia, alveolar bone, and maybe even let you drop in a few more implants (at $5G a pop) in places where you wouldn't be able to before. Remember, dentists aren't some mindless technicians. We're scientists first and must remember that. Whether you apply your scientific skill solely to clinical treatment of disease, bench research, or a mix of the two, you have to remember why it's important that you know all the science and know how you apply it to what you do on a daily basis. We're not cosmetologists, let's keep that in mind and act accordingly.
 
Dr. Emling @ PENN couldn't have said it better: "To understand research you must learn to do research."

Which dentist will apply new advancements better: A dentist who went to only a clinical school? Or a dentist who went to a school that had some emphasis on research?

In my opinion a dentist who knows what research is about and knows the importance of research will be able to evolve with the rapid progression of dental research.

I don't want to be a researcher however I do know the importance of research. Dentistry is approaching that phase where new techniques and products are coming out sooner than us dentists can adapt to them. For this reason, I chose to go to PENN to be able to adapt to the changing environment and to assimilate new techniques faster. I think dentists must be able to evolve and to evolve a dentist must master how to understand current research. However, clinical experience is important as well.

The main reason I did not choose Temple (I loved this school) was when Mark told my group: "If you want to do research don't come to Temple, we are just going to focus on clinical."

New techniques, New products, New advancements come from research alone. Granted some dentists discover new treatments serendipitously but reserach is what brings out new advancements.

DesiDentist
 
Very sad to see some dentists learn how to use new products from the salesman.

🙄
 
Why do schools like PENN, UCSF, UNC, UF, Columbia, Harvard, UW, UCLA, Michigan, San Antonio, etc. are well known throughout the world. Because they have made a huge impact in the evolution of modern dentistry. New advancements such as Dent Sim's, Laser research, research on Flouridation and it's importance, etc.

New products and methods just don't come out. They have to be developed, implemented, and then they are spread to the "clinical" schools.

When you say "Hope we all make the right decision" Let me just put it this way: everyone will be making the right decision. We all are gonna be dentists.

Some just like to know more than what is written in the instructional manual. :hardy:

DesiDentist
 
I'd prefer to be the one who writes the instruction on manual. :laugh: :laugh: UCSF, UPENN, Harvard grads pass the state board, don't they? That's alone enough certify that they are competent enough to fix teeth 😀

😀 😀 :laugh: :laugh:
 
The reason that the detail men and women teach how products work is because almost all research is done by companies and scientists. Not Universities. Ford didn't go to college, Bill Gates dropped out of school, Edison didn't go to one U of M football game! Einstein had to leave his country to teach at Princeton. Some of you are just full of yourselves! Original thought comes from doing, not reading, studying and taking test. The code word for research!
 
Those companies do little research for themselves. They hire university labs to do it for them. My next door lab do research for Crest. 😱 😱 You don't like research, that's fine with us. Don't ditch research because researchers didn't ditch your clinical.
It's research that moves science forward. You can be a clinician as much as you want, no problem with researcher like me.

Tinker Bell-TEMPLE DENTAL 007😎
 
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt noodle.

Lets say all the schools were "clinical" what would happen to dentistry??

Answer that for me? If they were all clinical dentistry would just be a trade (like a carpenter), not a profession. New developments are a must in any profession.

I'm very comfortable with where I am going and I am happy you are going to an all clinical school. It's like a happy marriage. Both sides have to contribute.

We can develop and research and you can work on patients and use our ideas, if you will.

tit for tat.

DesiDentist
 
hey tink,

did you all of sudden decide to switch back to temple again? or did you forget to change your signature? 🙂
 
Go to PENN's research page and see how many companies give money to PENN to develop new ideas for them. PENN does the research and gets the patent, then they sell that to the companies who market it.

It's like Microsoft, if you will: 95% of the software you are using right now is developed in Banglore, India. Microsoft just markets and puts them in pretty boxes.

DesiDentist
 
Noodle,
Your post doesn't make sense. You are ranting about being thoughtful, but your underlying tone is, "If you choose a reasearch type of school you are foolish". Think man. Don't you realize that we have thought about it. I'm not knocking your decisions so don't knock mine. And trust me, I really, really, really want to.....
I can't criticize anyone's decision because both paths, research or clinical, have their advantages. If you can't see that Noodle, then there is nothing to be said.
 
Well said, Brand. In the mean time, I'll go to a research school and enjoy my priviledged as one of the few selected who get to go there. My school is not perfect, but it's one of the most difficult to get in any way. I'll get to beam laser to a caries lesion to kill the bacteria instead of drill and fill. I'll get to screen the teeth with laser instead of x-ray, my choice.:laugh: :laugh: I'll learn new technologies first hand instead of second hand or third hand....:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Love my rich public state school all the way...😀 Why is my public state school so rich? Research money, fyi....I'll get out of school owe just about 100K less than kids going to Temple.
 
You sound like Darth Vader! May the Force be with you! By the way, just a few days ago you were drilling and filling at Temple. Tinker Bell, you have become an intellectual over night. G.V. Black would be proud of you!😉
 
Noodle, say whatever you want to say because you don't even know me and I don't care. UCSF my research school is always near and dear to my heart. I've been here for two years and will continue to be here for a couple more years.

I got in one of the top school in the country and I'm going there. I got in because my CV is thick with research publications. People have to make choices because they don't get into their first choice. I know what is my first choice and I get in my first choice so I'll be there.

I hope u're not gonna tell your prof. at your clinical school that you hate research. As u might find out later, most profs are researchers and they hate kids who ditch research.
 
noodle:

I think Tinker Bell was being sarcastic by writing Temple Dental 007.

All in all, I'm confused you were the one who said it doesn't which school one goes to since we all are gonna be dentists anyway. Then why the hell are you bringing up new distinctions. Does Hawaii have a dental school?

How do you know there are code words? I work in a dental school, I work with private dentists, I never heard these code words you are talking about.

DesiDentist
 
Blah...blah...blah...

Thats the code word for "Noodle is trying to make himself feel better about his decision to go to a clinical school."
 
Just reading these posts are funny......my take on this is that both research and clinical schools have their pros and cons. And so what matters most is that the school suits you. I chose uop (clinical) over ucla (research) because I felt that getting more clinical experience than research was more important for me. But it doesn't mean that just b/c you go to a clinically oriented school doesn't mean you won't have research opportunities and vice versa.
 
I think I know what is going on! Most of you "research people" are acting like MD's. I see this attitude with medical students! How many of you had dentistry as your first choice? Dentistry is a beautiful profession. Don't taint it with this elite attitude!
 
Code word: Noodle

Translation-- Something to prove.
 
first you say we want to get a Ph.D, now you are saying we initially wanted to be M.D.'s ? Dude, noodle go out and take a deep breath and eat a guava or something. No need to accuse anyone of us "SDN" personalities what we want.

If I want a Ph.D I'll get one at John Hopkins with the PENN's combined DMD/Ph.D option. If I want an M.D. I'll get one by specializing in OMS. If I want an MBA I already got approval from PENN to get one. If I want a M.S.Ed PENN will help me get that too. Does your "clinical" school have these options. Usually schools with "money" that usually comes from research give their students more options. If I got into PENN I am very comfortable I could have gotten into Medical School as well. Why did I choose Dentistry? Because I enjoy it.

So, I think you need to calm down. I'm sorry you didn't get into your first choice. But you aren't gonna get any love from us, or sympathy for that matter.

DesiDentist

(notice the "Dentist" after my name, it's not DesiPhysician or DesiResearcher)
 
Hey guys, we got into dental school, lets just celebrate that and not get into a pissing contest about it. Everyone makes the decision that feels right for them. Clinical and Research are no better or worse than each other, moreover, there is no point in going to a school that focuses on something that you cant stand. If you dont like research, why would you want to put yourself through hell in something that just dosent make you happy for four years, when you could be somewhere with something that you love? The quality of a dentist's education is of no importance if they hate what they are doing. Go to school where you feel good, and love it. Dont go anywhere because people say its the best, if its not where your heart is.
 
Coombaya ma' Lord, Coombaya....

In the immortal words of the King (Rodney, that is), Can't we all just get along?

I think we all just need a great big group hug....

Come on people, feel the Love.....

Perc-

PS> The code words that we should really be concerning ourselves with are "Whose yo' Daddy?"😱
 
I'm trying to get along. But some of the stuff noodle is saying is uncalled for. I'm not going to sit here when someone thinks s/he is God and wants to spread the Gospel that 'clinical' schools is where everyone should go.

She's entitled to her own opinion but I think she should hear other's out as well rather than being childish and accusing us that we really want to get a Ph.D or an M.D. I don't take that kinda crap from anyone and no one should just sit back and listen to that kind of crap.

DesiDentist
 
The school you graduate from really doesn't matter, as long as you are passionate.

I am sure there are idiots that graduate from Stanford (tsk, tsk) and there are Geniuses who graduate from Community College.
It is the person's intentions and desires and motivations that make the difference.

DesiDentist
 
Desi,
You should create a rap song to display your feelings on this topic. It will give us a good belly laugh, I'm sure. You are very talented, and maybe bustin' a rhyme will help cool the flames of fury on this thread amongst everyone. This is getting people almost as riled up as slaveforMD did a while ago.
After all, Desi, You are Mr. Comic Relief on the SDN!!! (and we are all greatful for your humor).

Perc-

PS. Desi-I liked the music on your website. If you could change it to baby got back, from another seattle great, sir mix alot, it would be even cooler!
 
Research is not limited to MD or PhD. Some of the best dentists at UCSF do research as well. The whole dental schools are employed by mostly dentists. So, if you can't find any thing else to say, don't name us as former pre-med because we are not.
I have been doing dental research eversince I'm an undergrad. If you say something, say it accurately, because mostly people come here to look for info. So, don't give them the wrong info.
And you have never been to a research dental school, you don't even know what it is inside, so don't ditch it.
 
A Research School or Clinical School?
Noodle thinks that Research is for a FOOL.
I know this may sound CRUEL.
Little does she know, how much she sounds like a TOOL.

I want to be a DDS or DMD.
But noodle is accusing me of once being a pre-MD.
I am OFFENDED,
But I humble myself and my heart is AMENDED.

I am glad I am entering a school where there is no NOODLE.
Dental school is no Kitten CABOODLE.
If she was in my CLASS,
I would have to open a can of Whoop ASS.

Ph.D or M.D. or D.O, or D.M.D
it doesn't matter they all need research, you SEE.
So go out and REALIZE,
without research our lives would have no SURPRISE.

So why don't we COMPROMISE
And get rid of that "clinical" DISGUISE
you believe in whatever you want TO
And we, the researchers, will have our CAKE TOO.

I hope you don't want to SPECIALIZE,
IF you do, its gonna be a SURPRISE
you need research for that, too?

Why you may ASK?
Because to specialize have to understand the TASK.
Not just the simple INSTRUCTIONS,
like those LEGO CONSTRUCTIONS.

You have to be an INNOVATOR,
not a COMPLICATOR.
Cuz time is money you SEE.
A clinician has to make sure they have the PROFITABILITY.

That is our other TASK.
What you may again ASK.
Research makes things SIMPLE.
Like Popping a PIMPLE.

You should thank US.
Not Cause a FUSS.
You should show us TRUST.
From us you will make some $$$ U.S.

Here is my RHYME
In four years it will be TIME
and then you can SEE
How important research is for a D.M.D

DesiDentist
 
BRAVO DESI!!!!

WELL DONE CHAP- We knew you had another rhyme in you.

BTW, When does the album come out?

P--
 
Dude or Dudatte Desi

you got way too much time on your hands to be comin up with that rythm yo.

Are you sure you don't want to get into the music industry. I gotta give yah props on that "throw down of words"

I gotta friends in the record business that would kill for that spill

latter dog
 
we'll all be shooting just about par as far as clinical kills are concerned.
Click to expand...
-YOSEMITESAM

I hope not!

Matt
 
Haha....clinical kills 😀 .
 
Well, if my typing is any indication, I might be just a little behind the resta y'all in clinical skills. lol 😀
 
I know things have become enlightened with Desi's masterful rap, but I can't help but contribute my opinion. Noodle, chill! Who cares if you bag on research, or if you feel that dental schools are deliberately deceptive by using codewords to disguise a discrepancy in their clinical teachings--we all choose what's best for us. What's more, when we graduate as dentists, we all have to pass the boards part two (save for maybe armed forces DMDs) to begin practicing. Granted, some of us may be further ahead of the game to begin with, but competency will be achieved through repitition, and experience. I SINCERELY doubt that a school that has strong research capacity neccessarily correlates diminished training in the practical application of dentistry.
In fact, I have a codeword for research:
Research=OPPORTUNITY
Opportunity to succeed by showing your desire to put forth extra effort in your studies.
Opportunity to pursue a specialty; post graduate programs look favorably upon extra curricular activities as a sign of enthusiasm and initiation
Opportunity to attend an institution w/a storied and successful past, and an equally rosy outlook for the future: Schools bank from the innovations they create, and these institutions have a good chance of not closing due to the $$$$$$$$ generated by endeavors in research.

Maybe somebody squirted ethyl alcohol in your eye during organic lab. That doesn't deem your experience as the information that we all should rely upon when choosing a school to attend. It is apparent from your posts that you are excited about the art of dentistry, and all of the skills that are required to excel at your craft. I commend your desire to become masterful, but it's insidious and shortsighted to insist that a school cannot be great at more than one area of expertise.
 
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