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TeethLikeGodsShoeshine

TeethLikeGodsShoeshine

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So I had this conversation with my brother last night and I wanted to see if anyone has had similar experiences.

My brother graduated with a bachelors last year in health science. He was wanting to go into medicine but due to various reasons finished up with a 2.9 GPA. Needless to say he was disheartened and about to give up on med school aspirations. I recently had done a good deal of research here on SDN, and told him all about D.O ( he had never heard of it before) and AACOMAS grade replacement. He was extremely excited and enrolled for an informal post bacc at the Local state Uni near where I live to do some grade replacement before taking the MCAT and improving his app.

One semester later and he is killing it, straight 4.0s and loving life. He goes to talk with his advisor yesterday and gets completely slammed. The advisor tells him that a post bacc is pointless because this "grade replacement" thing isn't how all DO schools run and he will only be averaging his grades by retaking the classes. He told him he should seriously reconsider his plans and plan an alternate route because med school doesn't seem realistic. My brother comes home upset because he trusts his advisor over " some information you got from some random Internet forum". I told him to call a DO school and ask about admission policies and about grade replacement. He goes on to call AZCOM and apparently some guy who picked up had no idea what grade replacement was and explained to him basically how AMCAS averages GPA.

At this point I'm completely lost. Has anyone run into similar problems and why the F*** is some admission person at AZCOM saying they done honour grade replacement?
 
The counselor doesn't know what he's talking about. You don't call the med schools since you would get some random person in admin who doesn't know a damn thing about the process. You need to go onto the AACOMAS website.

Yes, they do grade replacement for the DO application
AMCAS is the MD application and they do grade average.

Post bacc is ABSOLUTELY the way to do, that's how many of us got into med school the DO route.
 
Another example of advisors not knowing what the heck they are talking about. You can do a quick google search and realize how ignorant some of these counselors can be. It is sad that they dissuade so many awesome applicants.

Yea grade replacement has nothing to do with the schools, AACOMAS is the one that does the calculation, they are the ones that decide if retakes count and whatnot. Again to reiterate, AMCAS (MD schools) averages the grades instead of replacing them.
 
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The advisor is incorrect and cold calling random schools is not the way to go because you have no idea what ******* is going to answer the phone. Go to the AACOMAS website, that's where he will actually be applying from.
 
TeethLikeGodsShoeshine said:
So I had this conversation with my brother last night and I wanted to see if anyone has had similar experiences.

My brother graduated with a bachelors last year in health science. He was wanting to go into medicine but due to various reasons finished up with a 2.9 GPA. Needless to say he was disheartened and about to give up on med school aspirations. I recently had done a good deal of research here on SDN, and told him all about D.O ( he had never heard of it before) and AACOMAS grade replacement. He was extremely excited and enrolled for an informal post bacc at the Local state Uni near where I live to do some grade replacement before taking the MCAT and improving his app.

One semester later and he is killing it, straight 4.0s and loving life. He goes to talk with his advisor yesterday and gets completely slammed. The advisor tells him that a post bacc is pointless because this "grade replacement" thing isn't how all DO schools run and he will only be averaging his grades by retaking the classes. He told him he should seriously reconsider his plans and plan an alternate route because med school doesn't seem realistic. My brother comes home upset because he trusts his advisor over " some information you got from some random Internet forum". I told him to call a DO school and ask about admission policies and about grade replacement. He goes on to call AZCOM and apparently some guy who picked up had no idea what grade replacement was and explained to him basically how AMCAS averages GPA.

At this point I'm completely lost. Has anyone run into similar problems and why the F*** is some admission person at AZCOM saying they done honour grade replacement?
Click to expand...

This happened to my friend for MDs, she had a few Cs in pre reqs retook it and then they averaged it in AMCAS. Had about a ~3.4/~29, advisor said don't bother applying. Was from a top 10 pre med university. Got into 4 MD schools and matriculated into a mid tier school.
AACOMAS doesn't average the grades, it just the highest that replaces the grade.

The advisors often barely know anything. I remember going to mine, I got some good feedback but it was pretty obvious that I knew people who did the application in real life and have gotten in who would be far more helpful. He helped me chose which schools to apply to. He is friendly and nice but lacks a lot of information I was concerned about. He admitted I probably should apply to 10-15 DO schools and throw in 5 low tier MD schools (just to see what happens, he said you could end up getting a great MCAT score, a 32+ and it might help you get an interview at these places).

Advisors are often hit or miss, some schools have great ones, some have very questionable ones.
 
Dreamstoo said:
This happened to my friend for MDs, she had a few Cs in pre reqs retook it and then they averaged it in AMCAS. Had about a ~3.4/~29, advisor said don't bother applying. Was from a top 10 pre med university. Got into 4 MD schools and matriculated into a mid tier school.
AACOMAS doesn't average the grades, it just the highest that replaces the grade.

The advisors often barely know anything. I remember going to mine, I got some good feedback but it was pretty obvious that I knew people who did the application in real life and have gotten in who would be far more helpful. He helped me chose which schools to apply to. He is friendly and nice but lacks a lot of information I was concerned about. He admitted I probably should apply to 10-15 DO schools and throw in 5 low tier MD schools (just to see what happens, he said you could end up getting a great MCAT score, a 32+ and it might help you get an interview at these places).

Advisors are often hit or miss, some schools have great ones, some have very questionable ones.
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Advisors are definitely hit or miss, my first advisor was totally useless. At my first meeting my freshman year, as soon as I walked in her office she gave me a list of classes I should take and told me she wasn't going to spend time with me because my high school grades weren't great and told me to leave. At the end of my sophomore year, I started asking her questions about when I should take the MCAT or where's a good place near school to get clinical experience. She told me that it's not her job to tell me about that stuff and that I should be finding out that stuff on my own. I asked, "then why am I coming here if you're not going to advise me on what to do?" She then asked me to leave and I got an email the next day saying that I now had a new advisor. The new advisor was awesome and helped me get up to speed on things the other advisor didn't tell me about.
 
gocougs339 said:
Advisors are definitely hit or miss, my first advisor was totally useless. At my first meeting my freshman year, as soon as I walked in her office she gave me a list of classes I should take and told me she wasn't going to spend time with me because my high school grades weren't great and told me to leave. At the end of my sophomore year, I started asking her questions about when I should take the MCAT or where's a good place near school to get clinical experience. She told me that it's not her job to tell me about that stuff and that I should be finding out that stuff on my own. I asked, "then why am I coming here if you're not going to advise me on what to do?" She then asked me to leave and I got an email the next day saying that I now had a new advisor. The new advisor was awesome and helped me get up to speed on things the other advisor didn't tell me about.
Click to expand...

LOL. I have friends who had crappy grades in high school that have 3.8-3.9 as pre meds.
 
gocougs339 said:
Advisors are definitely hit or miss, my first advisor was totally useless. At my first meeting my freshman year, as soon as I walked in her office she gave me a list of classes I should take and told me she wasn't going to spend time with me because my high school grades weren't great and told me to leave. At the end of my sophomore year, I started asking her questions about when I should take the MCAT or where's a good place near school to get clinical experience. She told me that it's not her job to tell me about that stuff and that I should be finding out that stuff on my own. I asked, "then why am I coming here if you're not going to advise me on what to do?" She then asked me to leave and I got an email the next day saying that I now had a new advisor. The new advisor was awesome and helped me get up to speed on things the other advisor didn't tell me about.
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There are a lot of people out there who don't know how to do their jobs, are too lazy to do their jobs, or both.
 
medickdb said:
There are a lot of people out there who don't know how to do their jobs, are too lazy to do their jobs, or both.
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Yea, it was really weird. About half of the premed students that I talked to hated her and the other half loved her and thought she was really helpful. One kid had a theory that the school's Psychology or Sociology department was paying her to be helpful to some students and dismissive to other students as part of some off the books, unethical social experiment. I doubt it's true but it doesn't seem too far-fetched.
 
Not surprised... From what I've seen and experienced, college pre-med advisors are about as useful as an aminoglycoside for an anaerobic infection.
 
gocougs339 said:
Yea, it was really weird. About half of the premed students that I talked to hated her and the other half loved her and thought she was really helpful. One kid had a theory that the school's Psychology or Sociology department was paying her to be helpful to some students and dismissive to other students as part of some off the books, unethical social experiment. I doubt it's true but it doesn't seem too far-fetched.
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It really depends on the school. The first undergraduate school I attended, the premed advisor would talk to you, but unless you were an honors student he always made it seem like you were wasting his time. It was here that I got the idea that unless I had a 3.8 with no bad grades/ withdraws, a 30+ MCAT score, and sacrificed sleep to volunteer at every opportunity, then any effort would be futile. I'd be lying if I were to say that having that kind of idea in one's head didn't make one feel depressed. Funny thing was, there were plenty of graduate health programs associated with the school. The school I eventually graduated from didn't have those kinds of connections and had just as many students. I don't know where I would check, but I would be willing to bet that the latter school had more interested, and successful applicants to graduate health programs.

My fiancee graduated from the first school and had to put up with the same things from him. In fact, he did write her a letter of recommendation, and an adcom asked her about its contents. He was the kind of guy to make it his job to act like the gatekeeper for graduate medical education. An advisor's job is to do whatever he or she can to provide guidance to the prospective applicants who come to him or her in the hopes that they will be successful. I understand the strength of a letter of recommendation depends on what the student puts into it, but other than that, why not be helpful unless you truly dislike your job?

Jokes on him though. She's about done with residency, and I'm off to school in July.
 
I find that with advisors, it's best to smile and agree so that they'll release you for registration, then go do whatever you know is right for you.
 
WalSlave said:
I find that with advisors, it's best to smile and agree so that they'll release you for registration, then go do whatever you know is right for you.
Click to expand...

Yup. Remember. You know nothing and they know everything until registration is available.
 
You know what's funny, I spent a good deal of time on SDN In high school so when I got to college I thought I knew better then my advisors. Turns out that my school has really good advisors and it took me awhile to realize that. And my advisors have a poor opinion of SDN
 
Mx300 said:
You know what's funny, I spent a good deal of time on SDN In high school so when I got to college I thought I knew better then my advisors. Turns out that my school has really good advisors and it took me awhile to realize that. And my advisors have a poor opinion of SDN
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Lol good luck with that
 
They are called advisors for a reason. You are your best advisor as you know your situation best. Take what everyone says with a grain of salt when incorporating it into your analysis. Ultimately (hopefully), you are the best decider as well.

See? Being an adult does have it's perks!
 
Mx300 said:
You know what's funny, I spent a good deal of time on SDN In high school so when I got to college I thought I knew better then my advisors. Turns out that my school has really good advisors and it took me awhile to realize that. And my advisors have a poor opinion of SDN
Click to expand...


I mean some are fantastic. Like at my school there was the pre-health adviser who had helped throughout her career get hundreds of people from my school into professional programs (vet, med, PA etc).

She retired as I was starting this process. So I got the new adviser who while wanting to be very helpful is very busy and just plan ignorant of American graduate programs. So she has led me astray several times. For instance she once said that I would not need my letters of recommendation until December haha



Sent from my RM-917_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk
 
I decided to post this here because its a thread about "advisement" and didn't want to create a whole new thread.

Basically, just found out that my friend has decided to pursue another career choice because his brother (an attorney) told him to change careers because his med friends said it wasn't worth it and were unhappy.

Though not my direct problem, but it really ticked me off potential physicians are being deterred by disgruntled med students and naive/clueless non-medical people (college advisors included btw).
 
Dr. Zombie said:
I decided to post this here because its a thread about "advisement" and didn't want to create a whole new thread.

Basically, just found out that my friend has decided to pursue another career choice because his brother (an attorney) told him to change careers because his med friends said it wasn't worth it and were unhappy.

Though not my direct problem, but it really ticked me off potential physicians are being deterred by disgruntled med students and naive/clueless non-medical people (college advisors included btw).
Click to expand...

There are many hurdles in this path. Your friend fell at one of them. Better now than later.
 
chizledfrmstone said:
There are many hurdles in this path. Your friend fell at one of them. Better now than later.
Click to expand...
This is so true. If someone lets a lay person deter them from even trying then they are not a strong enough person to go the distance because believe me dealing with medical school, the hatefulness of rotations, and the rigors of residency one must have a thick skin or you will never make it. Heck, I've been an attending for 5 years and got told I wasn't a real doctor last week by some holier than thou specialist. Have to learn to lived with the punches and move on for yourself.
 
cabinbuilder said:
This is so true. If someone lets a lay person deter them from even trying then they are not a strong enough person to go the distance because believe me dealing with medical school, the hatefulness of rotations, and the rigors of residency one must have a thick skin or you will never make it. Heck, I've been an attending for 5 years and got told I wasn't a real doctor last week by some holier than thou specialist. Have to learn to lived with the punches and move on for yourself.
Click to expand...

Why did the specialist say that? I hope you gave him an appropriate response.
 
cabinbuilder said:
This is so true. If someone lets a lay person deter them from even trying then they are not a strong enough person to go the distance because believe me dealing with medical school, the hatefulness of rotations, and the rigors of residency one must have a thick skin or you will never make it. Heck, I've been an attending for 5 years and got told I wasn't a real doctor last week by some holier than thou specialist. Have to learn to lived with the punches and move on for yourself.
Click to expand...

Wait , what?? What kind of **** is that?
 
Dr. Zombie said:
Why did the specialist say that? I hope you gave him an appropriate response.
Click to expand...
Because he used some obscure ENT word on the phone and I was either too tired to remember what that meant or never learned that word in the first place. When I said I wasn't familiar with that term, his reply was, "and you call yourself a doctor?". Sigh. Sad but true. I said, "can you just tell me what that means so I can answer your question to help this patient?". All in a day.
 
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cabinbuilder said:
Because he used some obscure ENT word on the phone and I was either too tire to remember what that meant or never learned that word in the first place. When I said I wasn't familiar with that term, his reply was, "and you call yourself a doctor?". Sigh. Sad but true. I said, "can you just tell me what that means so I can answer your question to help this patient?". All in a day.
Click to expand...

maybe he has too many patients and is sick of getting referrals from the stupid PCPs? business must be thriving for him.
 
cabinbuilder said:
Because he used some obscure ENT word on the phone and I was either too tire to remember what that meant or never learned that word in the first place. When I said I wasn't familiar with that term, his reply was,"and you call yourself a doctor?". Sigh. Sad but true. I said, "can you just tell me what that means so I can answer your question to help this patient?". All in a day.
Click to expand...

Adults speaks like this?
 
SurgeDO said:
maybe he has too many patients and is sick of getting referrals from the stupid PCPs? business must be thriving for him.
Click to expand...
And I was calling as an ER doctor for a patient in trouble. Trust me it happens ALL THE TIME. The WORST in my world are cardiologists and ortho.
 
chizledfrmstone said:
I don't know anything about ENT.

Is this sarcasm or serious?
Click to expand...

unless they work in a serious knife and gun club, surgeons receive the majority of their cases from referrals. the PCP is usually who the pt. first sees for an issue. if you are an dingus to your PCPs, the PCPs will not recommend pts. to see you.

it is an interesting and necessary system of check and balances.

ex: next time dr. cabinbuilder comes across a pt. with chronic ear infections, it would behoove her to send the pt. to another ENT for the tympanostomy.
 
SurgeDO said:
unless they work in a serious knife and gun club, surgeons receive the majority of their cases from referrals. the PCP is usually who the pt. first sees for an issue. if you are an dingus to your PCPs, the PCPs will not recommend pts. to see you.

it is an interesting and necessary system of check and balances.

ex: next time dr. cabinbuilder comes across a pt. with chronic ear infections, it would behoove her to send the pt. to another ENT for the tympanostomy.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately in my current job I am in the ER and am forced to deal with the ENT who is on call for that day. Many times there is no ENT on call and in that case I can choose who I want to sent them too. It was luck of the draw. But, yes, in reality, if you are a specialist and you piss me off. NO MORE referrals from me. Done that many times.
 
pre-med advisors are often looking out for the best interest of school stats
 
cabinbuilder said:
Unfortunately in my current job I am in the ER and am forced to deal with the ENT who is on call for that day. Many times there is no ENT on call and in that case I can choose who I want to sent them too. It was luck of the draw. But, yes, in reality, if you are a specialist and you piss me off. NO MORE referrals from me. Done that many times.
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like that ENT probably knew you wouldn't know the obscure vocabulary and wanted a shot at an ego stroke of some sort.

I used to work in retail where people with GED's used to get their heads blown up as soon as they became floor supervisors or assistant managers with their 0.25 cent raises. They used to look down at us part-timers and spoke to us like we were imbeciles. I kept thinking "god i can't wait to be a doctor and be at peace."

Then once I grew up and got exposed to the hospital environment, I realized losers like that don't just come with GED's but with doctorate levels too. You can't escape them, but just learn to tolerate them and maintain your respect if they get out of line.
 
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I'm going to be blunt here, kids. That counselor is an F'''ing *****. Just google "AACOMAS grade replacement policy".

Don't always rely on Admissions Office personnel to know about these things, unless you're talking to the Dean. He probably talked to some ******* Admin.

Have your bro PM me if he needs more advice.

TeethLikeGodsShoeshine said:
So I had this conversation with my brother last night and I wanted to see if anyone has had similar experiences.

My brother graduated with a bachelors last year in health science. He was wanting to go into medicine but due to various reasons finished up with a 2.9 GPA. Needless to say he was disheartened and about to give up on med school aspirations. I recently had done a good deal of research here on SDN, and told him all about D.O ( he had never heard of it before) and AACOMAS grade replacement. He was extremely excited and enrolled for an informal post bacc at the Local state Uni near where I live to do some grade replacement before taking the MCAT and improving his app.

One semester later and he is killing it, straight 4.0s and loving life. He goes to talk with his advisor yesterday and gets completely slammed. The advisor tells him that a post bacc is pointless because this "grade replacement" thing isn't how all DO schools run and he will only be averaging his grades by retaking the classes. He told him he should seriously reconsider his plans and plan an alternate route because med school doesn't seem realistic. My brother comes home upset because he trusts his advisor over " some information you got from some random Internet forum". I told him to call a DO school and ask about admission policies and about grade replacement. He goes on to call AZCOM and apparently some guy who picked up had no idea what grade replacement was and explained to him basically how AMCAS averages GPA.

At this point I'm completely lost. Has anyone run into similar problems and why the F*** is some admission person at AZCOM saying they done honour grade replacement?
Click to expand...
 
Hi all!

I have a question regarding grade replacement: Does anyone know if the class I wish to retake has to be the exact same class from the exact same University? Or can I take a class with a matching course description from a local university? And if so, how would I make the AACOMAS aware of this in the event the course names / numbers don't match up? My problem is, I received my undergrad from George Washington U, and have since received my Masters in CT. I'm working here now, and have to take my post-bacc around my work schedule. Suffice it to say, scooting back and fourth to D.C. every two to three days isn't a reality for me, but I really want to retake a biological science class -- BISC 2451, History of Life -- in which I received a "D."

Any help would be much appreciated..

Thanks!
 
As long as the class description and semester/quarter hours (depending on what your D came from) match up. I hear that it's perfectly fine to take it in another school.

It just can't be like Biochem (4 CR) replacing gchem (4 CR). Has to match up 1:1.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile
 
How do you guys feel about these course comparisons? -- 383 as a replacement for 2451..

BISC 2451. History of Life. 3 Credits.
A review of the origin of life, the geologic record, and the evolutionary history of the major groups of organisms, including the origin of life and evolution of invertebrates, vertebrates, and plants. Same as GEOL 2151. Prerequisite: BISC 1111– BISC 1112 except by permission of the instructor.

BIO 383 - Evolution
(4 cr.) (3 hours lecture, 3 hours laboratory) This course examines the mechanisms of evolutionary change and surveys the evolutionary and phylogenetic history of life on earth. Because evolution is often a focus of social debate about ways of knowing and about the nature of humanity, students also explore the history of this debate and its influence on society. Students enrolling in the graduate level of this course are expected to complete course goals beyond those students enrolled in BI 383. Prerequisite: 1 group; BIO 101, BIO 101L, BIO 102, BIO 102L; BIO 150, BIO 151; Every Year, Spring
 
ForensicOdontology said:
How do you guys feel about these course comparisons? -- 383 as a replacement for 2451..

BISC 2451. History of Life. 3 Credits.
A review of the origin of life, the geologic record, and the evolutionary history of the major groups of organisms, including the origin of life and evolution of invertebrates, vertebrates, and plants. Same as GEOL 2151. Prerequisite: BISC 1111– BISC 1112 except by permission of the instructor.

BIO 383 - Evolution
(4 cr.) (3 hours lecture, 3 hours laboratory) This course examines the mechanisms of evolutionary change and surveys the evolutionary and phylogenetic history of life on earth. Because evolution is often a focus of social debate about ways of knowing and about the nature of humanity, students also explore the history of this debate and its influence on society. Students enrolling in the graduate level of this course are expected to complete course goals beyond those students enrolled in BI 383. Prerequisite: 1 group; BIO 101, BIO 101L, BIO 102, BIO 102L; BIO 150, BIO 151; Every Year, Spring
Click to expand...
These courses are not equivalent because they are different credits.
 
ForensicOdontology said:
How do you guys feel about these course comparisons? -- 383 as a replacement for 2451..

BISC 2451. History of Life. 3 Credits.
A review of the origin of life, the geologic record, and the evolutionary history of the major groups of organisms, including the origin of life and evolution of invertebrates, vertebrates, and plants. Same as GEOL 2151. Prerequisite: BISC 1111– BISC 1112 except by permission of the instructor.

BIO 383 - Evolution
(4 cr.) (3 hours lecture, 3 hours laboratory) This course examines the mechanisms of evolutionary change and surveys the evolutionary and phylogenetic history of life on earth. Because evolution is often a focus of social debate about ways of knowing and about the nature of humanity, students also explore the history of this debate and its influence on society. Students enrolling in the graduate level of this course are expected to complete course goals beyond those students enrolled in BI 383. Prerequisite: 1 group; BIO 101, BIO 101L, BIO 102, BIO 102L; BIO 150, BIO 151; Every Year, Spring
Click to expand...

If you're using evolution to substitute history of life, it MIGHT work, but check the class as a whole, as well as with AACOMAS.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile
 
cabinbuilder said:
This is so true. If someone lets a lay person deter them from even trying then they are not a strong enough person to go the distance because believe me dealing with medical school, the hatefulness of rotations, and the rigors of residency one must have a thick skin or you will never make it. Heck, I've been an attending for 5 years and got told I wasn't a real doctor last week by some holier than thou specialist. Have to learn to lived with the punches and move on for yourself.
Click to expand...
What I like doing is using stereotypes against people. I'd say something like "Yeah, I'm an Osteopath. Isn't it funny how I got to just chill in college, put a half ass effort on the MCAT and now I get to be called a 'doctor,' have the same job title as you, and I make as much money as you? LOL I hope those nights studying O. Chem were among your best memories because I sure as hell made some great ones in college."
 
Mx300 said:
You know what's funny, I spent a good deal of time on SDN In high school so when I got to college I thought I knew better then my advisors. Turns out that my school has really good advisors and it took me awhile to realize that. And my advisors have a poor opinion of SDN
Click to expand...

Many people do say that about SDN but most people who have advised against using this website advise not to take the pre-med allo section too seriously. For the most part, most people who have gotten into DOs have said pre-med osteopathic gave more realistic feedback. I used to post in pre-med allo a lot, took me awhile to realize it was full of gunners. I do admit I did read some of SDN before my freshman year of college.
 
Dreamstoo said:
Many people do say that about SDN but most people who have advised against using this website advise not to take the pre-med allo section too seriously. For the most part, most people who have gotten into DOs have said pre-med osteopathic gave more realistic feedback. I used to post in pre-med allo a lot, took me awhile to realize it was full of gunners. I do admit I did read some of SDN before my freshman year of college.
Click to expand...
Spot on. I definitely found pre-osteo to be better than pre-allo if you want realistic advice. Even on the WAMC threads you still get people saying that without a 3.9 gpa and a 33+ MCAT you have no hope anywhere... bologna
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
Spot on. I definitely found pre-osteo to be better than pre-allo if you want realistic advice. Even on the WAMC threads you still get people saying that without a 3.9 gpa and a 33+ MCAT you have no hope anywhere... bologna
Click to expand...

Not meant to derail this thread but I always pronounce that as "BO-LOG-NUH" instead of "BO-LOW-KNEE" :laugh:
@Awesome Sauceome is it just me?
 
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