Columbia or UNC ?

[runrabbitrun]

So, I know this is late, but what do you guys think?

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[jackbauer!]

unc

jb!

 

[INFNITE]

COLUMBIA

 

[smileyt03]

UNC Dental School is On Point!! You will love the school and Chapel Hill

 

[shamrock84]

columbia!!!

 

[runrabbitrun]

I'm from NC, and a UNC grad so I already love Chapel Hill, but sometimes I just want to get out of here (for a while). Thus, the UNC name and prestige is lost on me most of the time.

Here's some pros and cons as I see them, please feel free to add your own two cents.

UNC
Pros:
Cost!!!
Great reputation in the dental world
Weather
Cost of living
UNC basketball tickets, of course

Cons:
Been in CH for 20 years already
less of a wow factor on degree?
less specialization opportunities, less time and focus on didactics and board prep supposedly
Will this limit my chanes to be an associate to NC only?

COLUMBIA
Pros:
Great Name
Great Board Scores and specialization rate
Chance to live in NYC for four (or more) years
Wow factor on degree
I like their wholistic, doctor first approach

Cons:
Expensive
Cold
Limited to apartment living
"harder" curriculum?

Add your opinions please.

~B. Rabbit

 

[armorshell]

Nobody included any reasons why.

 

[armorshell]

I'm from NC, and a UNC grad so I already love Chapel Hill, but sometimes I just want to get out of here (for a while). Thus, the UNC name and prestige is lost on me most of the time.

Here's some pros and cons as I see them, please feel free to add your own two cents.

UNC
Pros:
Cost!!!
Great reputation in the dental world
Weather
Cost of living
UNC basketball tickets, of course

Cons:
Been in CH for 20 years already
less of a wow factor on degree?
less specialization opportunities, less time and focus on didactics and board prep supposedly
Will this limit my chanes to be an associate to NC only?

COLUMBIA
Pros:
Great Name
Great Board Scores and specialization rate
Chance to live in NYC for four (or more) years
Wow factor on degree
I like their wholistic, doctor first approach

Cons:
Expensive
Cold
Limited to apartment living
"harder" curriculum?

Add your opinions please.

~B. Rabbit

Here's your best argument against Columbia

 

[shamrock84]

I see what you are saying about price but honestly you live only once. if you think you might enjoy a big city why not do it. yes yes, we'll study a lot but when you don't, I think you will be able to recharge your batteries in one of the greatest cities in the world. (disclaimer: that is only my OPINION)
and yes, it is more expensive. but people have different priorities. I would rather live for 4 years in NYC (and maybe longer if I end up loving it) than have a huge house afterwards.

when i was chosing undergrad i had an option of staying in my country and going to college for free or coming to the US and paying $$$ for school. i wasn't even sure if i wanted to stay in the US afterwards. But I am glad I did it. It was a GREAT experience. I got to study abroad for 4 years!!!

however that is just me...i love traveling/experiencing different cities/places.

 

[armorshell]

Hey, I'm not going to call you out for going to a more expensive school and living in an awesome city if that's what you want to do, but the cost is the best argument against going to Columbia.

 

[DocPainless]

Don't be swayed too much by the location of the school. Columbia is a very good school. But it is located in pretty bad, ghettoish part of NYC, adjacent to Harlem. You should take this into consideration as you will live in this immediate environment for the next four years.

 

[SHC1984]

if you are a NC resident then UNC, if you are OUT of state then Columbia.

 

[keibee82]

if you are a NC resident then UNC, if you are OUT of state then Columbia.

I agree. But its really hard to turn down UNC basketball

 

[INFNITE]

Don't be swayed too much by the location of the school. Columbia is a very good school. But it is located in pretty bad, ghettoish part of NYC, adjacent to Harlem. You should take this into consideration as you will live in this immediate environment for the next four years.

but you're located a short subway/cab ride to the greatest city experience in the world. Experiencing NYC really is the best way to escape from the stress of dental school.

 

[Luv2Golf]

I decided to go to UNC because it is cheap, and has a great program. I'm from NC but went to undergrad in Utah. Cost is a pretty big factor in choosing a dental school, but you also want to be happy. If that means experiencing something new than you should do it.

 

[SHC1984]

You mean you don't like DUKE better????

I agree. But its really hard to turn down UNC basketball

 

[shamrock84]

Hey, I'm not going to call you out for going to a more expensive school and living in an awesome city if that's what you want to do, but the cost is the best argument against going to Columbia.

OOOh people and your practicality. I am already tired of hearing "choose the least expensive school"... no, choose the school where you think you will be the happiest. Everybody pays off their loans. That is why there are still people going to NYU and USC (two of the most expensive schools). Some people just take longer to pay them off. If having a lot of money or being able to pay off your loans faster is what would make you happy then the cost is the most important argument..but if you think moving to NYC and having new experiences would make you happy then the money shouldn't be an argument.

Happiness is the most important argument for me and happiness and money don't necessarily correlate. At least not in my case...

 

[shamrock84]

Hey, I'm not going to call you out for going to a more expensive school and living in an awesome city if that's what you want to do, but the cost is the best argument against going to Columbia.

OOOh people and your practicality. I am already tired of hearing "choose the least expensive school"... no, choose the school where you think you will be the happiest. Everybody pays off their loans. That is why there are still people going to NYU and USC (two of the most expensive schools). Some people just take longer to pay them off. If having a lot of money is what would make you happy then the cost is the most important argument..but if you think moving to NYC and having new experiences would make you happy then the money shouldn't be an argument.

Happiness is the most important argument for me and happiness and money don't necessarily correlate. At least not in my case...

 

[armorshell]

OOOh people and your practicality. I am already tired of hearing "choose the least expensive school"... no, choose the school where you think you will be the happiest. Everybody pays off their loans. That is why there are still people going to NYU and USC (two of the most expensive schools). Some people just take longer to pay them off. If having a lot of money is what would make you happy then the cost is the most important argument..but if you think moving to NYC and having new experiences would make you happy then the money shouldn't be an argument.

Happiness is the most important argument for me and happiness and money don't necessarily correlate. At least not in my case...

I'm sorry, but let me tell you what it sounds like you're saying: "Nuts to financial responsibility, do whatever you want, even if you're mortgaging your future. It will be fun!

We're not talking about spending a few extra hundred dollars to get the "special massage" on your Cancun vacation, or skipping a day of work to go to a baseball game. We're talking about taking upon tens of thousands of dollars of debt. Some of the loans people take to go to private schools could cut an average associates take home pay after taxes in half.

Listen, I'm not trying to tell anyone how to live their life. If they want to make their decision based on city, weather, girls, whatever. All I'm trying to show them is a darn good statistic to use as a benchmark.

 

[shamrock84]

I'm sorry, but let me tell you what it sounds like you're saying: "Nuts to financial responsibility, do whatever you want, even if you're mortgaging your future. It will be fun!

I feel like you didn't even try to understand what I wanted to say because your interpretation of my comment is way off. So I don't feel like arguing any more.


Runrabbitrun, good luck with you decision!

 

[gryffindor]

OOOh people and your practicality. I am already tired of hearing "choose the least expensive school"... no, choose the school where you think you will be the happiest. Everybody pays off their loans. That is why there are still people going to NYU and USC (two of the most expensive schools). Some people just take longer to pay them off. If having a lot of money or being able to pay off your loans faster is what would make you happy then the cost is the most important argument..but if you think moving to NYC and having new experiences would make you happy then the money shouldn't be an argument.

Happiness is the most important argument for me and happiness and money don't necessarily correlate. At least not in my case...

All dental schools have various degrees of lousiness. That's right, ALL of them. Everyone goes to dental school to pass exams, meet requirements, and graduate, and every school has some level of stress or red tape involved in achieving those 3 things. Therefore all dental students complain about their school. I've been on SDN long enough to read posts from UNC students complaining about the bureaucracy in the clinic as well as Columbia students complaining about the A train after midnight on Saturdays is infrequent and a darn long ride to get you home to Washington Heights. There is no perfect school, so I wouldn't put too much stock into the "where you will be happy" idea because it doesn't apply as much to dental school.

Armorshell isn't off base here. It's easy for young, single predents to say that excess debt for 4 years just means you'll take longer to pay off your loans. We could be talking the difference between a $1000 vs $3000 monthly loan payment (just as an example). That's not small change for anyone whose primary source of income after graduation will be their dental practice. It's easier to be happy on less money when you are by yourself. For example, it's easy to live in a studio in NYC when you are straight out of dental school and single. Ten years later when it is you + spouse + kids + studio, umm, not so easy. When you get out of dental school, the first practical thing you will learn or be told is "start saving for retirement" followed by "find a good accountant." When you are practicing for 10 years, it is likely you will be paying your practice loan, paying a mortgage + car(s), have a family with children, and be trying to save for retirement. You will notice that extra $2000/month going out to your educational debt because of a decision you made to "be happy!" ages ago. When this question is asked on Dentaltown, practicing dentists almost unanimously say "CHEAPEST SCHOOL" and then go on to give stories of their horror stories from their dental school experiences.

Of course this only applies when you have a choice of schools and are borrowing to pay for it. If NYU or USC is the only school you get into and your stats were marginal to begin with, then you don't really have a choice and you make the best of the situation. If you are independently wealthy or Uncle Sam is footing the bill, then go wherever you want.

The UNC grad can go live and practice in NYC for a few years after graduation. Your practice opportunities aren't limited by the state of your dental education, they are limited by where you want to live. People graduate on one coast and go practice on the other coast all the time. You can't practice in NY state anymore without doing a minimum 1 year residency after dental school, so go to NYC for a residency (and there are TONS of them available in NYC). You get the decreased debt from UNC + a salary to live on while being in NYC. It's the best of both worlds.

 

[jeninny44]

I'm sorry, but let me tell you what it sounds like you're saying: "Nuts to financial responsibility, do whatever you want, even if you're mortgaging your future. It will be fun!

We're not talking about spending a few extra hundred dollars to get the "special massage" on your Cancun vacation, or skipping a day of work to go to a baseball game. We're talking about taking upon tens of thousands of dollars of debt. Some of the loans people take to go to private schools could cut an average associates take home pay after taxes in half.

Listen, I'm not trying to tell anyone how to live their life. If they want to make their decision based on city, weather, girls, whatever. All I'm trying to show them is a darn good statistic to use as a benchmark.

Just stop, please. These kids are *****s with absolutely no financial sense. You obviously "get" finance and are mature about your spending. They aren't. There is no way you are going to convince them that taking on an extra $120k of debt needlessly is a very bad idea.

With the debt culture of America it is no wonder why people go to USC, NYU, and super expensive schools when the net outcome is more or less the same (a dental degree that allows you to pull teeth). Living in a "fun" city even when you have no money to spend to have fun is lost upon these people. As long as they're living in a cool city with a cheesy nick name (Big Apple, City of Angels, Bean Town) they're happy dropping serious coin needlessly.

So not ragging on you armorshell.. it's just amazing that you give good reason after good reason after great reason why one should go to the cheaper school and nobody listens.

 

[OceanBlue]

If you're going to be my friend then go to UNC...if not then get the hell out

 

[Will I get In?]

Listen, I'm not trying to tell anyone how to live their life. If they want to make their decision based on city, weather, girls...

You definitely didnt Interview with Shamrock84 otherwise you'd all be lining up to go to Columbia
Shes a real hottie and definitely worth the price of admission..

 

[Speeddater]

You definitely didnt Interview with Shamrock84 otherwise you'd all be lining up to go to Columbia
Shes a real hottie and definitely worth the price of admission..

That's cool and all, but women are everywhere. You'll meet nice women at just about any school you go to

 

[OceanBlue]

That's cool and all, but women are everywhere. You'll meet nice women at just about any school you go to

 

[shamrock84]

.

 

[shamrock84]

.

 

[SHC1984]

Good looking people are everywhere. It will be crazy to go to a school b/c of one person. lol..
Columbia is a very good school, but it's like 3x the price of UNC, so you should pick UNC. This decision is not that hard....
If it was Harvard Vs. UNC then I see your problem.... lol...

You definitely didnt Interview with Shamrock84 otherwise you'd all be lining up to go to Columbia
Shes a real hottie and definitely worth the price of admission..

 

[v&andy_yankee]

I can only tell you the pros/cons for Columbia b/c I go there.

Pros for Columbia:
+good education
+small class size (75 students)
+competition--you're only going to be as good as the competition, and I truly do believe that my classmates have pushed me to work harder and excel more academically than I would have, had I gone to another school
+NYC = you don't get to see much of it during certain periods of first/second year...but it's all about time management and how you plan things. Some ppl bitch all year round about how busy they are, how hard school is...I'm finishing up second year but I still find enough time to go out at least 2-3 times a week
+"ivy league" some ppl cough parents and the ppl they brag to do care
+good specialization rates/board scores = it's basically a stepping stone for you to go to another level, if that is your goal
+H/P/F grading system = it really helps to decr the stress and puts an emphasis on doing your best, than aiming for a specific letter grade
+good atmostphere = the faculty and students are essentially a "family" in many ways

Cons
-expensive!
-neighborhood is kinda ghetto (still not as bad as Temple's tho ) and it's also pretty far from the true "NYC" environment. Good b/c then rent is cheaper and you're more inclined to stay in than go out and party, but bad if you actually do want to party b/c it'll take at least 1 hour to get you and you 15 alread-drunk buddies down to a club
-clinical training needs improvement
-atomosphere depends on the class = each class has its own personality, apparently. I lucked out, b/c my class has gotten along extremely well with each other and the faculty (we're chummy in that incestuous way). But not all years have been so lucky: there are other classes who hate each other! I feel so bad for them--I can't imagine going through dental school not getting along with my classmates!

--on a sidenote, I would say that picking the cheapest school should be high on your priority list. I picked Columbia b/c all the schools I applied to were pretty expensive, even my state school was around the same price. So I ended up deciding to pay just an extra $7500 a year and go to "the brand name" and figured 7500X4yrs won't make too big of a difference compared to the $200k I was going to take out anyway (and I had no loans from undergrad, turned down an Ivy to go to a school that offered me a scholarship, so I decided to splurge just a little for dental school). BUT had I gone to a southern state school like the ones in Texas or Alabama, where it is a complete steal (!!!so cheap!!!) I definitely would've picked that over Columbia. How much $$ in loans you have later on will influence your decision as to where/who you want to work for, if you can take a nice vacation before you starting working 24-7, etc.

Another thing I would keep in mind is that where you go to school will be likely where you will end up too (not always, but it will definitely influence). Do you like NY or the Northeast? Or are you more of a southener, definitely going back to the NC area to practice? If your answer is the latter, I would say pick UNC so you can start building up the connections there while you're in school.

 

[Simiam]

I've lived all over the east. NY 3 years NC 6years As far as D school is concerned some of these guys made excellent points. Price is a huge issue. Living expense and Personal expenses are MUCH higher in NY than in NC. If you go to Columbia you will already be spending a LOT more money on tuition and living, so really NYC is an awesome city but where are you going to get the money to do anything? Take out more loans to have fun on the weekend? Plus how often are you really going to be able to go out, it's D school, you will be really busy.

It's not worth it. Go to UNC save 200k and then if you really want the experience and to be happy, move to NY. You will be spending a lot more on living expenses but you will be making a lot more also. You will be working, but once the day is over that's it you will be free to go experience the city.

Basically, big cities are fun if you have money, otherwise you are just looking at all the things you could be doing if you had money.

Save money go to UNC! It's great.

 

[SHC1984]

true, you can only have "fun" if you have alot of $$. Whats the point of moving to fun cities like NYC if you don't have the $$ to go out...
If you have alot of $$ you will have "fun" no matter where you live. If you don't have alot of $$ then you will be bored anywhere you live b/c you can't afford to do anything....

I've lived all over the east. NY 3 years NC 6years As far as D school is concerned some of these guys made excellent points. Price is a huge issue. Living expense and Personal expenses are MUCH higher in NY than in NC. If you go to Columbia you will already be spending a LOT more money on tuition and living, so really NYC is an awesome city but where are you going to get the money to do anything? Take out more loans to have fun on the weekend? Plus how often are you really going to be able to go out, it's D school, you will be really busy.

It's not worth it. Go to UNC save 200k and then if you really want the experience and to be happy, move to NY. You will be spending a lot more on living expenses but you will be making a lot more also. You will be working, but once the day is over that's it you will be free to go experience the city.

Basically, big cities are fun if you have money, otherwise you are just looking at all the things you could be doing if you had money.

Save money go to UNC! It's great.

 

[shamrock84]

true, you can only have "fun" if you have alot of $$. Whats the point of moving to fun cities like NYC if you don't have the $$ to go out...
If you have alot of $$ you will have "fun" no matter where you live. If you don't have alot of $$ then you will be bored anywhere you live b/c you can't afford to do anything....

I hope you are being sarcastic. If not, this post saddens me...

However, some other people made good points. If you don't mind living in NC for next 4 years you should maybe do it and try to do residency in NYC

 

[SHC1984]

sarcastic? If you don't have $$ how are you going to be able to go out and spend $50 dollars on dinner and $500 on entertainment in New York City??
Don't get me wrong. I love NYC too! I love/collect Louis Vuitton bags and shopping in Fifth Avenue is VERY FUN, but if you don't have the $$ how are you going to do all that????? LOL...
To the OP. If you can't afford those things that I listed above then just stay in North Carolina or be VERY broke...

I hope you are being sarcastic. If not, this post saddens me...

However, some other people made good points. If you don't mind living in NC for next 4 years you should maybe do it and try to do residency in NYC

 

[4thQtrDreams]

sarcastic? If you don't have $$ how are you going to be able to go out and spend $50 dollars on dinner and $500 on entertainment in New York City??
Don't get me wrong. I love NYC too! I love Louis Vuitton bags and shopping in Fifth Avenue, but if you don't have the $$ how are you going to do all that????? LOL...
To the OP. If you can't afford those things that I listed above then just stay in North Carolina or be VERY broke...

um.. i live in NYC and have never purchased a louis Vuitton bag nor shopped on 5th ave., theres more to do than just that

Seriously though.. you dont need that much money if you go to the right places.. Just stay away from the swanky places and you'll be fine... Of course if you want a Table and bottle service every time you hit the town, that will get expensive quick.. I think it will be harder to find the time than the money to go out..

 

[SHC1984]

What i mean to said is..If you are a broke dental student it doesn't matter where you live b/c you will be too busy and too broke to have "fun"...even if you live in New York City you can't afford to have "fun" unless you have $$..

 

[INFNITE]

oh please. We poor dental students will find ways to have fun if we must (even if it means $10 drinks on a night out or $40 steak dinners)

 

[OceanBlue]

I can't compare Columbia side by side with UNC because I don't know much about Columbia, but let me just say this...UNC is an excellent dental school. You can get NC residency after a short while and pay instate price. On the other hand, I have to admit Chapel Hill is no New York, but I thoroughly enjoy the bars and everything else here. The weather is nicer here, and UNC-Chapel Hill during Springtime...it's like heaven. One of the reasons why I want to stay here because it is the most liberal college in the South.

 

[DDSY]

Even dogs that yo-yo are accepted for who they are at UNC.

Anyway, I agree with all the posters. If you are accepted to UNC as an in-state applicant, then by all means go there. One big advantage that UNC has is weather. It's brighter and sunnier for a longer part of year. Dental school is pretty rigorous, and I'd say try to maximize your happiness (I like this word) while you are there.

I can't compare Columbia side by side with UNC because I don't know much about Columbia, but let me just say this...UNC is an excellent dental school. You can get NC residency after a short while and pay instate price. On the other hand, I have to admit Chapel Hill is no New York, but I thoroughly enjoy the bars and everything else here. The weather is nicer here, and UNC-Chapel Hill during Springtime...it's like heaven. One of the reasons why I want to stay here because it is the most liberal college in the South.

 

[OceanBlue]

Even dogs that yo-yo are accepted for who they are at UNC.

haha...don't be hatin' the yo yo dog!

 

[nycdentalkid]

oh please. We poor dental students will find ways to have fun if we must (even if it means $10 drinks on a night out or $40 steak dinners)

You Columbia kids sure do have a lot of fun.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AvdJ5g4se-c

Is this what you do at your free time? Practice dance movement? I have NYC residence so think I will pick Columbia over UNC.

 

[shamrock84]

Ok, I feel like I upset a lot of people by saying money is not as important as happiness I will try to describe my experience and why I said it.

I was accepted to UCLA and Columbia. They are both good schools (and previosuly I didn't mean to say that Columbia is perfect and UNC not...I know they both have problems) and I chose Columbia even though it is more expensive. I spent a good amount of time in South California and I didn't like it there. Also, I couldn't imagine spending my life there. (I guess I am one of the few wierdos who doesn't like it but don't judge me.)
On the other hand, I really like NYC and I would like to stay and practice in the East Coast.

So when I made my decision I was thinking "yes it is going to cost me more but I will be happier in NYC and that will reflect on my studying, plus I will be networking in the area in which I want to remain." Plus I took my fiance in consideration who is also going to grad school. Not only he preferred the east coast better but he would also have a lot better employment options in the area in which he finished his grad school.

I know my loan payments are going to be higher but I am ready to live poorly for a while (I grew up in a 700 sq ft. apartment with my parents and brother and I'm definitely not the type of person who needs louis vuitton bags) and I don't want to open my practice immediately. So I don't think I am that financially irresponsible.


Will I get in? thanks for the compliment (if you weren't sarcastic)!!!


Runrabbitrun, what did you decide?

 

[hotdog003]

I've lived all over the east. NY 3 years NC 6years As far as D school is concerned some of these guys made excellent points. Price is a huge issue. Living expense and Personal expenses are MUCH higher in NY than in NC. If you go to Columbia you will already be spending a LOT more money on tuition and living, so really NYC is an awesome city but where are you going to get the money to do anything? Take out more loans to have fun on the weekend? Plus how often are you really going to be able to go out, it's D school, you will be really busy.

It's not worth it. Go to UNC save 200k and then if you really want the experience and to be happy, move to NY. You will be spending a lot more on living expenses but you will be making a lot more also. You will be working, but once the day is over that's it you will be free to go experience the city.

Basically, big cities are fun if you have money, otherwise you are just looking at all the things you could be doing if you had money.

Save money go to UNC! It's great.

Such a big difference in cost should be a factor. It is quite painfull to be a poor person in a rich neighborhood