Combat Rescue Officer

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kushr88

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I am thinking about applying for HPSP for air force or navy or going to USHUS for medical school and was wondering can a physician become a combat rescue officer and what is the path to get there exactly. I know its tough and thats not what i'm asking, just if its possible and what are the best ways.

-Thanks
 
Can I answer with absolute certainty? No.

But the answer is going to be no. I'm almost certain.

Training as a physician is a hefty investment, and they want you to do your job. CRO is another heavy investment, and the career field itself is fraught with risks, both the high risk of you washing out of the pipeline (and thus wasting precious months not doing the job you were trained at great expense to do) and (if you were to successfully complete) the risks associated with being a special tactics operator. On top of that there is the whole issue of combatant (CRO) and non-cobatant (doc) roles (yes, this comes up with pilot physicians as well, but those are rare and the AF is in love with pilots, so they fall into a special category).

If you want to be a doc, strive to be a doc. If you want to be a CRO, strive to be a CRO. Understand that there is a high likelihood of not achieving either. If you want to know about CRO: http://www.specialtactics.com/crocriteria.shtml. They only exist in the Air Force.
 
Well this happens every year. Someone out there inevitably asks: "So can I be a doctor and still go to ranger/seal/combat rescue officer school and strap on body armor and go down range with the trigger pullers?"

The answer is NO. If you want to be a SEAL/SF/Ranger/CRO you need to do it BEFORE medical school. There is zero chance in hell that the DoD is going to take a chance on losing a valuable physician to injury during this training when you duties will DEFINITELY NOT involve going downrange and shooting booger eaters (something about the hippocratic oath I think 😉 ). Also, there is no need to train a physician to accompany the teams during front line fighting. That is better suited to the PJs, force recon corpsmen, and SF medics. If you want to do all that hooah/oorah/hooyah stuff, get it out of your system before you focus on medicine.
 
fair enough. Thanks for the reply guys
 
You can be a special operations GMO and get attached to the Nany SEALS or recon marines. Got this info from browsing the miltiary forums don't have first hand knowledge.
 
You can be a special operations GMO and get attached to the Nany SEALS or recon marines. Got this info from browsing the miltiary forums don't have first hand knowledge.


It's an uncommon thing to happen and you will still not be a front-line groundpounder, though, yes, I have heard of people doing some pretty whiz-bang stuff with spec ops. Everybody should get images of being Dr. Rambo out of their heads.
 
You can be a special operations GMO and get attached to the Nany SEALS or recon marines. Got this info from browsing the miltiary forums don't have first hand knowledge.

Umm, yeah, but... several caveats to this statement. (1) SEALS are not stupid. They really prefer board certified guys to go down range with them and do cool man ****, preferably EM and Ortho. As a non-board certified GMO, your duties would be more along the lines of physicals and admin. (2) same for force recon or MSOB. They usually deploy in company size units which don't necessarily require physicians. And (usually) it is the board certified (yet not necessarily DMO qualified) doc who gets to accompany them on deployments. Just a reality check from GMO land, FWIW.
 
Umm, yeah, but... several caveats to this statement. (1) SEALS are not stupid. They really prefer board certified guys to go down range with them and do cool man ****, preferably EM and Ortho. As a non-board certified GMO, your duties would be more along the lines of physicals and admin. (2) same for force recon or MSOB. They usually deploy in company size units which don't necessarily require physicians. And (usually) it is the board certified (yet not necessarily DMO qualified) doc who gets to accompany them on deployments. Just a reality check from GMO land, FWIW.

All the physicians with the SEALs are either board-certified DMOs or prior SEALs.
 
I guess the better question is where do pre-med students get the idea that an organization (let alone a government one) is going to spend thousands of dollars on them (hundreds of thousands in my case as an FS) and then let them go assassinate world leaders and rescue people in the perfect storm?

All it basically tells me is that the motivation for taking the HPSP scholarship is driven by some childhood fantasy to be a cowboy, ninja, or spaceman. Makes me feel alot better about taking the scholarship for a logical reason: to pay for my medical school.

Listen I know alot of these posts are based on curiosity and a lack of knowledge about how the military works, but if McDonald's spent half a million training you how to use the grill do you think they are going to put you on fries?
 
There is a loophole if you want to be a CRO. All the above posts are correct, its makes no sense for the Air Force to send you, the beautiful 250K investment flower of medical knowledge to become a CRO. HOWEVER, once you pay back the military all the time you owe them for HPSP the ball is essentially in your court. You basically just approach Big Blue and say "Hey I want to be a CRO (with the understanding that you will no longer be a physician), or I'm leaving. But do understand there is no role for a Doc as a CRO, and the correct answer is to do one or the other..but, I'm all for radical life changes.
 
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It's an uncommon thing to happen and you will still not be a front-line groundpounder, though, yes, I have heard of people doing some pretty whiz-bang stuff with spec ops. Everybody should get images of being Dr. Rambo out of their heads.

I dunno...Richard Jadick kind of was Dr. Rambo. (I kid, mostly.)
 
Well this happens every year. Someone out there inevitably asks: "So can I be a doctor and still go to ranger/seal/combat rescue officer school and strap on body armor and go down range with the trigger pullers?"

The answer is NO. If you want to be a SEAL/SF/Ranger/CRO you need to do it BEFORE medical school. There is zero chance in hell that the DoD is going to take a chance on losing a valuable physician to injury during this training when you duties will DEFINITELY NOT involve going downrange and shooting booger eaters (something about the hippocratic oath I think 😉 ). Also, there is no need to train a physician to accompany the teams during front line fighting. That is better suited to the PJs, force recon corpsmen, and SF medics. If you want to do all that hooah/oorah/hooyah stuff, get it out of your system before you focus on medicine.

This isn't completely true. They will send non-SF qualified physicians through the Q-course. These docs will not be on an ODA, but have been or will be Bn surgeons. It isn't common, but I know for a fact that it does happen. My former Bn surgeon was also not long-tabbed and was sent to Ranger School. There are usually exceptions to every rule in the military. You just need to talk to the right people.

Are these guys going to be trigger-pullers? No. Is it the smartest thing for the military to be risking injury to a physician? Probably not, but it still happens.
 
This isn't completely true. They will send non-SF qualified physicians through the Q-course. These docs will not be on an ODA, but have been or will be Bn surgeons. It isn't common, but I know for a fact that it does happen. My former Bn surgeon was also not long-tabbed and was sent to Ranger School. There are usually exceptions to every rule in the military. You just need to talk to the right people.

Are these guys going to be trigger-pullers? No. Is it the smartest thing for the military to be risking injury to a physician? Probably not, but it still happens.

It's a balancing act. On one hand the military needs to protect the investment it's made in a physician. On the other, letting physicians (who desire it) get in on some of the high-speed stuff helps keep them around and in good morale...
 
This isn't completely true. They will send non-SF qualified physicians through the Q-course. These docs will not be on an ODA, but have been or will be Bn surgeons. It isn't common, but I know for a fact that it does happen. My former Bn surgeon was also not long-tabbed and was sent to Ranger School. There are usually exceptions to every rule in the military. You just need to talk to the right people.

Are these guys going to be trigger-pullers? No. Is it the smartest thing for the military to be risking injury to a physician? Probably not, but it still happens.

Not as familiar with the USA as I am with USN and USAF. I have no idea about SOF (i.e., "Green Berets" for the uninitiated), but the only Ranger tabbed docs I know (a handful) were prior service guys who were tabbed BEFORE going to med school. FWIW...
 
Not as familiar with the USA as I am with USN and USAF. I have no idea about SOF (i.e., "Green Berets" for the uninitiated), but the only Ranger tabbed docs I know (a handful) were prior service guys who were tabbed BEFORE going to med school. FWIW...

As I said, some Army SOF units send their docs to Ranger school or the Q-Course. Who's to say that the AF wouldn't do the same? There are waivers for everything these days. Let someone else who's actually in the know and further up the chain tell the kid no.

Are you prior service?
 
As I said, some Army SOF units send their docs to Ranger school or the Q-Course. Who's to say that the AF wouldn't do the same? There are waivers for everything these days. Let someone else who's actually in the know and further up the chain tell the kid no.

Are you prior service?

There's a big difference between going to Ranger school or the Q-course and being a CRO.

Do doc's go to those Army courses? Yep, just as they go to airborne and air assault, but do they then become a member of the unit as a true "operator"? No, they sure don't. They go back to their little clinic for the 99.9% of them.

The AF has no incentive to send a physician to CRO school, even if they are at the end of their commitment. By then you would be too old to go anyway. There are more than enough applicants for CRO without needing physicians or former physicians to go through the training.

Are there a few "high speed" physician billets out there? Yes, but they are very, very rare and usually involve a very specialized person (as in a prior SEAL/Ranger/etc who became a doc). Take the AF Pilot-physician program for instance. Far and away though those without prior experience will not end up in one of those billets.
 
There's a big difference between going to Ranger school or the Q-course and being a CRO.

Do doc's go to those Army courses? Yep, just as they go to airborne and air assault, but do they then become a member of the unit as a true "operator"? No, they sure don't. They go back to their little clinic for the 99.9% of them.

The AF has no incentive to send a physician to CRO school, even if they are at the end of their commitment. By then you would be too old to go anyway. There are more than enough applicants for CRO without needing physicians or former physicians to go through the training.

Are there a few "high speed" physician billets out there? Yes, but they are very, very rare and usually involve a very specialized person (as in a prior SEAL/Ranger/etc who became a doc). Take the AF Pilot-physician program for instance. Far and away though those without prior experience will not end up in one of those billets.

I graduated from the Q-course a few years back, so I understand the difference. I only contend that docs are sent to these schools from time to time, and I know this from direct experience. Is there incentive to send an SF Bn Surgeon to the Q-Course or Ranger School? No. Does it still happen? Yes. Did I say that they become trigger pullers? No. Is a CRO different than an 18A, which is what they send the SF Bn Docs to? Yes, but that doesn't mean someone couldn't do the pipeline.

BOHICA stated that no one would risk injury to their medical officers by sending them through these various Ranger/SF/Seal/CRO pipelines. I only stated that it happens. I never said these guys would become operators.
 
Tangential: Anyone read his book? Is it any good?

Yeah, I read it. I mean, it's not going to win any Pulitzers, but it's interesting, and the guy's a bona fide hero. I'd say it's a definite read for anybody who's interested in being an actual military doc, rather than just trying get a free medical education with a minimum amount of disruption to your personal life.
 
Well this happens every year. Someone out there inevitably asks: "So can I be a doctor and still go to ranger/seal/combat rescue officer school and strap on body armor and go down range with the trigger pullers?"

It is getting pretty silly, perhaps we should start a sticky.

I graduated from the Q-course a few years back, so I understand the difference. I only contend that docs are sent to these schools from time to time, and I know this from direct experience. Is there incentive to send an SF Bn Surgeon to the Q-Course or Ranger School? No. Does it still happen? Yes. Did I say that they become trigger pullers? No. Is a CRO different than an 18A, which is what they send the SF Bn Docs to? Yes, but that doesn't mean someone couldn't do the pipeline.

BOHICA stated that no one would risk injury to their medical officers by sending them through these various Ranger/SF/Seal/CRO pipelines. I only stated that it happens. I never said these guys would become operators.

BTW, I like your question-answer style of prose. Will the military ever send you to a school that's irrelevant to your job? Yes. Will they then utilize that training? No. Will the Lakers catch the Spurs in the standings? No. Will the Lakers dominate in the playoffs? Yes!

This discussion is moot. Whether or not you go thru any course, and whether or not your were prior SF . . .if you're now a medical officer, the CO of the SF unit will not allow you to go out on an op, unless he's looking to lose his job. Why would he do so? You probably haven't done anything SF in a while (during medical school+training), you probably haven't trained with that unit (as much as say, an SF medic), and thus you would pose a great liability to that unit and the mission at hand. And if it does happen (a medical officer playing as a shooter), it must be done in a very back-door wink wink type of situation, probably without the CO knowing of it.

Once again, we conclude, if you wanna kill, join the line first. And to those of you who have done such work, thank you for your service. You can take pride in having done a job, where your life was actually on the line, for the sake of the common good. Many people can't claim that.

Now, go study your F-in medicine. B/c in 12 years, if you're treating my kids and you provide a substandard level of care--all the while puffing out your chest with all its glitter, somehow thinking you can overcompensate for your lack of medical knowledge by touting your prior SF service----then Im gonna take your chest candy and pin it to your forehead and do what I can to make sure you lose your patient privileges. If that's your intent all along, please go into something non-clinical (aka worthless), like 'Preventive Medicine' or 'Occupational Health'.
 
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It is getting pretty silly, perhaps we should start a sticky.



BTW, I like your question-answer style of prose. Will the military ever send you to a school that's irrelevant to your job? Yes. Will they then utilize that training? No. Will the Lakers catch the Spurs in the standings? No. Will the Lakers dominate in the playoffs? Yes!

This discussion is moot. Whether or not you go thru any course, and whether or not your were prior SF . . .if you're now a medical officer, the CO of the SF unit will not allow you to go out on an op, unless he's looking to lose his job. Why would he do so? You probably haven't done anything SF in a while (during medical school+training), you probably haven't trained with that unit (as much as say, an SF medic), and thus you would pose a great liability to that unit and the mission at hand. And if it does happen (a medical officer playing as a shooter), it must be done in a very back-door wink wink type of situation, probably without the CO knowing of it.

Once again, we conclude, if you wanna kill, join the line first. And to those of you who have done such work, thank you for your service. You can take pride in having done a job, where your life was actually on the line, for the sake of the common good. Many people can't claim that.

Now, go study your F-in medicine. B/c in 12 years, if you're treating my kids and you provide a substandard level of care--all the while puffing out your chest with all its glitter, somehow thinking you can overcompensate for your lack of medical knowledge by touting your prior SF service----then Im gonna take your chest candy and pin it to your forehead and do what I can to make sure you lose your patient privileges. If that's your intent all along, please go into something non-clinical (aka worthless), like 'Preventive Medicine' or 'Occupational Health'.

How does having prior SF service and speaking from experience mean you're touting it or overcompensating for your lack of medical knowledge? Can we not answer questions or have a discussion on a forum without resorting to pinning chest candy on someone's forehead? You're awfully bold with your statements on this thread. I kinda like it, speaking about missions and ops and such from such vast experience as a medical student - as you do. Are you another medical student with vast prior service experience? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Again, I never said anything about trigger pulling, and SF Bn Surgeons are not operators, nor do they really see patients in the traditional sense. It's true that their role is more of an administrative and supportive one, but they still often go outside the wire on MED CAPs. However, you're just as likely to get into a TIC en route to or while on a MED CAP as you are any other operation. Yeah, the enemy doesn't really care what you're doing when they fire an RPG at you or set off an IED.

Anyway, I'm not really all about arguing on an internet forum, but if somebody asks a question I'll answer it, and if someone gives information that's incorrect I will tell what I know - rather than resorting to threats of pinning things on them. That's very professional of you, BTW.

I'll also expound a bit on a Bn SF Doc I know (NG and not Active). He's an attending cardiologist on the civilian side with prior service, and he was going to go to Selection and the Q-Course. It was just something that he wanted to do, and he had the opportunity to go. He decided against it in the end, but who's to say he'd be compensating for his lack of medical knowledge by doing so? It's his life, and if it gives him greater job satisfaction then so be it. Who's he hurting? If I'm not mistaken there are reserve PJ's as well. Why could a physician not do their pipeline?

My point is why trash on someone if that's they route that they decide to take? People are so quick to say never and always when somebody asks a question. I don't know if it's in the best interest of the military to send physicians to some of these high-speed courses, but maybe it gives these docs the slightest idea of what their soldiers have gone through during training and operationally - rather than simply speculating as you do.
 
How
My point is why trash on someone if that's they route that they decide to take? People are so quick to say never and always when somebody asks a question. I don't know if it's in the best interest of the military to send physicians to some of these high-speed courses, but maybe it gives these docs the slightest idea of what their soldiers have gone through during training and operationally - rather than simply speculating as you do.

wasnt commenting directly to you(even though i quoted you, shouldve been more clear). Was using 'You' in the general sense. You a Spurs fan?
 
As I said, some Army SOF units send their docs to Ranger school or the Q-Course. Who's to say that the AF wouldn't do the same? There are waivers for everything these days. Let someone else who's actually in the know and further up the chain tell the kid no.

Are you prior service?

Prior USAF officer '94-'05 prior to med school. Now AD USN since '09.
 
Tangential: Anyone read his book? Is it any good?

Okay. Nice easy read, but pretty atypical from what I hear from friends who are currently battalion surgeons wiht the USMC.

A better theater medicine book, IMHO, is "Paradise General." I forget the author's name right now.
 
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