Combined Medical and Dental schools

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I'm having a tough time deciding between Med and Dental school. I'm about 50/50 I like things about both professions and there is no way I can decide so soon what I want to do for the rest of my life. I was wondering if there were schools that offered combined programs, where the first two years you are in both Med and Dental school (since I heard first two years they pretty much take the same classes anyways) and then after the 2 years you decide which one you want to pursue, either Med or Dental school.

Has anyone ever heard of a program like this? If so, would you recommend it?
 
Becoming an oral surgeon is a solid move for OP if they want to do both dentistry and medicine, but the problem seems to be more that OP wants to do one or the other and is simply having trouble deciding.
OP, have you done any shadowing of dentists/physicians? That could give you a better idea of which field you want to go into.
 
thegreengreatdragon said:
Becoming an oral surgeon is a solid move for OP if they want to do both dentistry and medicine, but the problem seems to be more that OP wants to do one or the other and is simply having trouble deciding.
OP, have you done any shadowing of dentists/physicians? That could give you a better idea of which field you want to go into.
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I have shadowed my dentist, and it was very fun, I loved the doctor patient interactions and how you get to know your patients over the years. It really feels like you are making an impact in the community. I haven't shadowed a physician yet but I assume that will be also be very fun as well since I enjoy learning about the human body/biology, even though some specialties (like spine or neurosurgery etc.) won't have that same regular patient interaction to it since hopefully once you see a patient you have to never see them again (for the sake of the patient). I have thought about oral surgery, and that is definitely a solid move but obviously becoming one is very difficult and I don't want to bank on it.

I was hoping there were programs which would let me decide to go either MD or DMD after going to their professional school for two years (basically taking the same courses for either path) and my grades are really good in undergrad (4.0 GPA) so I don't think I would have trouble getting accepted into these programs. It just sucks that no school really offers one. I don't really want one where I get one degree first and then get the other later, because that would be too many years of school personally. It's actually rather disappointing that schools with both a Medical and Dental program do not offer this.

And I noticed that many people are showing examples of a dual degree program, but that is not exactly what I am looking for. I am looking only for a single degree, but choosing one path instead of the other during Dental/Med school, so the first two years are combined and then you select which path you want to take. Sorry if I wasn't clear the first time, but I am looking for a single degree in either Medicine or Dentistry, but I just want to be able to decide later once I am actually in the professional school to see what I would like better.
 
Shak Muscles said:
I have shadowed my dentist, and it was very fun, I loved the doctor patient interactions and how you get to know your patients over the years. It really feels like you are making an impact in the community. I haven't shadowed a physician yet but I assume that will be also be very fun as well since I enjoy learning about the human body/biology, even though some specialties (like spine or neurosurgery etc.) won't have that same regular patient interaction to it since hopefully once you see a patient you have to never see them again (for the sake of the patient). I have thought about oral surgery, and that is definitely a solid move but obviously becoming one is very difficult and I don't want to bank on it.

I was hoping there were programs which would let me decide to go either MD or DMD after going to their professional school for two years (basically taking the same courses for either path) and my grades are really good in undergrad (4.0 GPA) so I don't think I would have trouble getting accepted into these programs. It just sucks that no school really offers one. I don't really want one where I get one degree first and then get the other later, because that would be too many years of school personally. It's actually rather disappointing that schools with both a Medical and Dental program do not offer this.

And I noticed that many people are showing examples of a dual degree program, but that is not exactly what I am looking for. I am looking only for a single degree, but choosing one path instead of the other during Dental/Med school, so the first two years are combined and then you select which path you want to take. Sorry if I wasn't clear the first time, but I am looking for a single degree in either Medicine or Dentistry, but I just want to be able to decide later once I am actually in the professional school to see what I would like better.
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So while I do think it's weird that dentistry and medicine are so far removed (that's maybe a conversation for a different day), I'm not so sure that I see the value of your argument that waiting until after the preclinical years to make your decision is really worth it. You'll really be doing basic science then; like you said, it's almost the same between med school and dental school, so there's nothing in the first two years of curriculum that could help you decide between between the two. It's not like you'll be learning both medicine and dentistry and then get to decide; you'll be learning biochem and anatomy and pharmacology, none of which will really help you differentiate between the two fields. It's really (I'd argue) the same as choosing in undergrad.
(Which is, really, why a program like the one you're advocating for doesn't exist. If it made sense, someone would've done it at this point.)

It sounds like you're pretty passionate about dentistry! I'd encourage you to shadow some doctors and see how you like it. It also seems to me, based on the fact that you've shadowed dentists but not doctors and the fact that your status says pre-dental, that you have thus far been leaning the dentist route. Is there a reason why? Furthermore, is there a reason why you're now considering medical school instead?
 
thegreengreatdragon said:
So while I do think it's weird that dentistry and medicine are so far removed (that's maybe a conversation for a different day), I'm not so sure that I see the value of your argument that waiting until after the preclinical years to make your decision is really worth it. You'll really be doing basic science then; like you said, it's almost the same between med school and dental school, so there's nothing in the first two years of curriculum that could help you decide between between the two. It's not like you'll be learning both medicine and dentistry and then get to decide; you'll be learning biochem and anatomy and pharmacology, none of which will really help you differentiate between the two fields. It's really (I'd argue) the same as choosing in undergrad.
(Which is, really, why a program like the one you're advocating for doesn't exist. If it made sense, someone would've done it at this point.)

It sounds like you're pretty passionate about dentistry! I'd encourage you to shadow some doctors and see how you like it. It also seems to me, based on the fact that you've shadowed dentists but not doctors and the fact that your status says pre-dental, that you have thus far been leaning the dentist route. Is there a reason why? Furthermore, is there a reason why you're now considering medical school instead?
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I was leaning towards the dental route, but now I'm not so sure. It's not that there is anything about dentistry that turns me off, I just realized that the stereotypes about Medicine aren't really true so that made me reconsider medicine. The whole pre-dental thing, well I would change it to Pre-Dental/Pre-Medical if that is an option but I'm too lazy to lol.

But yeah I see your point, that even with that combined school you won't really get to see each side. But atleast it gives you more time to decide.
I will undoubtedly feel a lot more confident about my decision if I make it 2 years into professional school at age 24 then if I make my decision now in Undergrad. And who knows, a lot could change by then. In dentistry atleast there is a push to get those midlevel providers to do more procedures etc. and if a ton of states suddenly allow Midlevels to do a lot of the work dentists previously did, then I might sway towards medicine etc.

Tough decisions
 
Shak Muscles said:
I will undoubtedly feel a lot more confident about my decision if I make it 2 years into professional school at age 24 then if I make my decision now in Undergrad. And who knows, a lot could change by then. In dentistry atleast there is a push to get those midlevel providers to do more procedures etc. and if a ton of states suddenly allow Midlevels to do a lot of the work dentists previously did, then I might sway towards medicine etc.

Tough decisions
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I think this means you need to take some time off after college, experiment, and apply when you know what you want to do. I see students looking to switch between medicine/dentistry once in school, and the time/money is just not worth it.
 
chaim123 said:
I think this means you need to take some time off after college, experiment, and apply when you know what you want to do. I see students looking to switch between medicine/dentistry once in school, and the time/money is just not worth it.
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I feel ya, but personally I don't want to take a gap year. I have some good momentum right now and I want to carry it into dental or med school. For me, it will just feel like a wasted year.

I'll probably just have to choose whichever, regardless I'll have that "grass is greener on the other side" feeling probably forever.
 
Shak Muscles said:
I feel ya, but personally I don't want to take a gap year. I have some good momentum right now and I want to carry it into dental or med school. For me, it will just feel like a wasted year.

I'll probably just have to choose whichever, regardless I'll have that "grass is greener on the other side" feeling probably forever.
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What's better - a "wasted" year now discovering your passion, or a wasted year where you spent 100K in tuition and want to switch professions?
 
Shak Muscles said:
I was leaning towards the dental route, but now I'm not so sure. It's not that there is anything about dentistry that turns me off, I just realized that the stereotypes about Medicine aren't really true so that made me reconsider medicine. The whole pre-dental thing, well I would change it to Pre-Dental/Pre-Medical if that is an option but I'm too lazy to lol.

But yeah I see your point, that even with that combined school you won't really get to see each side. But atleast it gives you more time to decide.
I will undoubtedly feel a lot more confident about my decision if I make it 2 years into professional school at age 24 then if I make my decision now in Undergrad. And who knows, a lot could change by then. In dentistry atleast there is a push to get those midlevel providers to do more procedures etc. and if a ton of states suddenly allow Midlevels to do a lot of the work dentists previously did, then I might sway towards medicine etc.

Tough decisions
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lol I'm not sure how long you've been on this site, but there's a new thread about midlevel encroachment in medicine (on the medical student forum, at least) like once a month. Midlevels are proliferating everywhere.
I'd recommend shadowing some physicians! I'd also encourage you to ask dentists or doctors you meet why they chose one and not the other. It might be straightforward for some (like, for me, dental school was something I never considered because I've always really disliked going to the dentist and I couldn't have borne being one haha), but others might have good insight for you.
 
chaim123 said:
What's better - a "wasted" year now discovering your passion, or a wasted year where you spent 100K in tuition and want to switch professions?
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Yeah but how exactly would I discover my passion in that year? I don't think that year would make a difference regardless. I would still probably be just as divided.
 
thegreengreatdragon said:
lol I'm not sure how long you've been on this site, but there's a new thread about midlevel encroachment in medicine (on the medical student forum, at least) like once a month. Midlevels are proliferating everywhere.
I'd recommend shadowing some physicians! I'd also encourage you to ask dentists or doctors you meet why they chose one and not the other. It might be straightforward for some (like, for me, dental school was something I never considered because I've always really disliked going to the dentist and I couldn't have borne being one haha), but others might have good insight for you.
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Yeah I know what you mean. I read around, and most people who went into dentistry point towards lifestyle, and most people that went into medicine say it was their "calling" or they always wanted to be a doctor from a young age.

I've already weighed the pros and cons, I definitely desire a nice lifestyle, but both professions can offer that. And as for the "calling" thing, I've never felt obligated to do medicine (or dentistry) or anything. For me it's just a profession, like a carpenter or plumber.

One thing I really like about medicine is that you learn everything about the human body, especially in your 3rd and 4th year of med school + residency (correct me if I'm wrong) whereas with dentistry it's more just clinical stuff after your science courses. So in that sense medicine would be more "enlightening"
 
Shak Muscles said:
Yeah I know what you mean. I read around, and most people who went into dentistry point towards lifestyle, and most people that went into medicine say it was their "calling" or they always wanted to be a doctor from a young age.

I've already weighed the pros and cons, I definitely desire a nice lifestyle, but both professions can offer that. And as for the "calling" thing, I've never felt obligated to do medicine (or dentistry) or anything. For me it's just a profession, like a carpenter or plumber.

One thing I really like about medicine is that you learn everything about the human body, especially in your 3rd and 4th year of med school + residency (correct me if I'm wrong) whereas with dentistry it's more just clinical stuff after your science courses. So in that sense medicine would be more "enlightening"
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I'm not so sure that you need a calling to be in medicine, because there are definitely people I've met in med school who aren't like that, but it helps. Medicine is such a grueling process that if you have a deep personal reason to stick with it, it keeps you from dropping/burning out.

I've never gone to dental school, and I don't have any close friends who've gone into it, so I can't attest to the curriculum. I would imagine that the spectrum of medical education does cover more, since dentistry is primarily concerned with the mouth. 3rd and 4th year of medical school, as well as residency, are mostly about clinical training, but yes, there's still a lot of learning that goes on.

All of the dental students I've met are really intelligent and would've done great in medical school, but ended up choosing dentistry because it was more chill; I don't think that's a bad reason to choose.
 
Shak Muscles said:
Yeah but how exactly would I discover my passion in that year? I don't think that year would make a difference regardless. I would still probably be just as divided.
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Reading through this thread I don’t think you understand either profession at all. You have a glorified view of both. What you are looking for doesn’t exist, so take a year and shadow lots of doctors and dentists and make a decision.
 
Shak Muscles said:
Yeah but how exactly would I discover my passion in that year? I don't think that year would make a difference regardless. I would still probably be just as divided.
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I don't mean to be a jerk about this but you say a couple years taking preclinical courses would help you decide but not a gap year. I don't think that adds up. I think you would be more focused if you knew whether you were going to be a dentist or medical doctor before entering that period in your life. Basically, you are just delaying that decision longer but it doesn't sound as though you are doing enough to help you decide one way or the other. I think more shadowing and realistic evaluations of their styles and scope of practice would be very valuable for you, especially if you don't feel a particular "calling" to one or the other.

Shak Muscles said:
you learn everything about the human body, especially in your 3rd and 4th year of med school + residency (correct me if I'm wrong) whereas with dentistry it's more just clinical stuff after your science courses.
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Not sure what you mean by this. Your clinical knowledge of anatomical/physiologic/pathologic relationships might improve but you do actually cover all the normal physiology and anatomy in the first year (or 2) of medical school. As far as I am aware (someone please correct me if I am wrong) dental students take anatomy and cover the whole human body too (although I would argue they know the mouth/teeth much better than I do as a medical student). Residency (and arguably 4th year) could actually potentially limit your knowledge in some areas while expanding it in others depending on your chosen specialty (example: If you are entering a GI fellowship, you likely know the colon in great detail but recall less and less about the muscles of facial expression over time - you simply don't need that information). Your statement confuses me and maybe expanding on what you mean could enlighten me and help you think about your situation too.
 
I've just read on here a lot on those Med vs Dental threads that in Dental school you are pretty much specializing already so you don't do as much of learning about the entire human body, whereas in Med school you learn a little about every specialty so you end up learning a decent amount of the entire human body. This is because a General Dentist doesn't have to do residency, their "residency" years are year 3 and 4 of Dental School. I could be wrong.

As for the gap year, I'm still not sure about that. I can just shadow over the summers. Not really sure what more I will learn though, except for watching the various procedures by myself. And I'm not really sure what I don't understand about the professions either? If I'm getting something mistaken, you guys are free to correct me. From my perspective, dentists and doctors are both just normal people who live normal lives. I haven't shadowed a doctor yet, but if I do I assume I'll just see the regular. Take a derm for example, he probably goes to work during his regular office hours, writes some acne prescriptions, takes some biopsies for cancers etc. then goes back home at the end of the day. Rinse and repeat. Obviously I'm dumbing the day down a lot, but what exactly will I learn from shadowing for an entire year that I don't already know?

I understand that the pre clinical years won't give you a good idea of either profession either, but atleast it will give you an idea what your grades look like etc. So if you have a 4.0 GPA and are really excelling in the preclinical, then that can give you an idea what you want to pursue. That dream of becoming an oral surgeon or maybe an orthopod could become a reality.
 
Shak Muscles said:
I haven't shadowed a doctor yet, but if I do I assume I'll just see the regular.
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You haven't shadowed any of the many many types of physician who each have multiple options for how they want to practice. I would not make assumptions because you know what they say about assumptions (especially when you are making them on an uninformed basis about a very expensive and minimum 7 year training period for a future career). You are ignoring a huge amount of variation.

Shak Muscles said:
So if you have a 4.0 GPA and are really excelling in the preclinical, then that can give you an idea what you want to pursue.
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Personally I feel this is seriously misguided. First of all, I am sure they exist but I do not personally know of any single medical student, nor have I even heard of a medical student with a 4.0 GPA (and our school doesn't even do grades anyway). Second, and more importantly, I do not believe you could make a well informed decision regarding a future specialty solely based on preclinical courses. You might like some topics better than others but you wouldn't like the actual practice of the specialty that focuses on that area. For example, I enjoy learning about cancer because the variation and causes are interesting but I would never work as an oncologist after meeting them and seeing how they work - it just wasn't for me.

And I think you are missing the key fact that Step scores can/will have a large influence on what type of medicine you would have a chance to practice.
 
Shak Muscles said:
I understand that the pre clinical years won't give you a good idea of either profession either, but atleast it will give you an idea what your grades look like etc. So if you have a 4.0 GPA and are really excelling in the preclinical, then that can give you an idea what you want to pursue. That dream of becoming an oral surgeon or maybe an orthopod could become a reality.
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Having a 4.0 in a bunch of medical science classes aren't going to tell you jack about what you want to do... also, choosing your career based on "excelling in pre-clinical" is simply stupid. Classwork is nothing like actual practice. You need to shadow. If all you are getting out of shadowing is seeing the procedures that they each do in a day then you are doing it wrong.

AllBleedingStops said:
Personally I feel this is seriously misguided. First of all, I am sure they exist but I do not personally know of any single medical student, nor have I even heard of a medical student with a 4.0 GPA (and our school doesn't even do grades anyway). Second, and more importantly, I do not believe you could make a well informed decision regarding a future specialty solely based on preclinical courses. You might like some topics better than others but you wouldn't like the actual practice of the specialty that focuses on that area. For example, I enjoy learning about cancer because the variation and causes are interesting but I would never work as an oncologist after meeting them and seeing how they work - it just wasn't for me.
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They exist, I know multiple.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Having a 4.0 in a bunch of medical science classes aren't going to tell you jack about what you want to do... also, choosing your career based on "excelling in pre-clinical" is simply stupid. Classwork is nothing like actual practice. You need to shadow. If all you are getting out of shadowing is seeing the procedures that they each do in a day then you are doing it wrong.



They exist, I know multiple.
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What else are you supposed to get out of shadowing? You see the lifestyle (and by that I mean how much vacation time he takes, how many hours he works etc.) of the doc, you see the doctor patient interactions, and you see the procedures. Am I missing something here?
 
AllBleedingStops said:
You haven't shadowed any of the many many types of physician who each have multiple options for how they want to practice. I would not make assumptions because you know what they say about assumptions (especially when you are making them on an uninformed basis about a very expensive and minimum 7 year training period for a future career). You are ignoring a huge amount of variation.



Personally I feel this is seriously misguided. First of all, I am sure they exist but I do not personally know of any single medical student, nor have I even heard of a medical student with a 4.0 GPA (and our school doesn't even do grades anyway). Second, and more importantly, I do not believe you could make a well informed decision regarding a future specialty solely based on preclinical courses. You might like some topics better than others but you wouldn't like the actual practice of the specialty that focuses on that area. For example, I enjoy learning about cancer because the variation and causes are interesting but I would never work as an oncologist after meeting them and seeing how they work - it just wasn't for me.

And I think you are missing the key fact that Step scores can/will have a large influence on what type of medicine you would have a chance to practice.
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Are you saying I should shadow a lot of different specialties to get a better idea? Is that how you decided you wanted to do medicine? If so, what did you learn/experience while shadowing that swayed your decisions?

And I just assumed that if you were a top 5-10% student in your Med school class you would probably get pretty high Step scores as well, and I'm sure that after the first two years you can of either Med or Dental school you should be able to distinguish yourself from the competition. So after your pre-clinical years atleast you will know if you can be competitive for certain specialties.

I'll give you an example of what I was going for with the combined Med/Dental program. Suppose you finish up your two years pre-clinical, now you atleast have an idea where you are academically. If you are not doing as well, and you know you won't have a good chance to specialize, then you can ask yourself, Would I rather be a General Dentist or a General Physician? (I believe this is called Family Medicine correct me if I'm wrong)
OTOH if you have really high scores and feel good about matching into difficult specialties you can ask yourself would I rather go for OMFS or Derm/Rads or whatever other difficult specialties there are.

I'm just saying it gives you more options. That's why I was wondering whether there were any programs that allowed this.
 
Shak Muscles said:
Are you saying I should shadow a lot of different specialties to get a better idea? Is that how you decided you wanted to do medicine? If so, what did you learn/experience while shadowing that swayed your decisions?
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Shadowing multiple specialties can help you decide if medicine is for you, especially if you get some surgical and some medical specialties. But obviously you won't be able to shadow every possible specialty so you will need to do your homework and take the experiences you have and decide if you would want to still go into medicine if you couldn't get into the specialty you had at the top of the list. I was not interested in becoming a dentist so I didn't have the same struggle you did. I knew I wanted to be a physician and some of my experiences have me leaning towards a few different specialties but we will see where it goes. My shadowing and other clinical experiences made me realize that there are many different ways to practice medicine and that I was not really interested in surgery (for the most part). I got a lot of perspective on the pros and cons of various medical specialties and that helped me narrow it down but the variety of experiences and patients and specialties I saw ensured I would rather be a physician of pretty much any sort than not be a physician at all.

Shak Muscles said:
If you are not doing as well, and you know you won't have a good chance to specialize, then you can ask yourself, Would I rather be a General Dentist or a General Physician?
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This is a decision you should make before you go to medical school. It would be a big waste of time and money to switch at that point.

Shak Muscles said:
That's why I was wondering whether there were any programs that allowed this.
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Unfortunately your options are get one degree or both but there isn't a middle ground where you get to study and see how well you do before you decide which to do. So this seems to be a bit of a moot point. It doesn't exist.
 
AllBleedingStops said:
Shadowing multiple specialties can help you decide if medicine is for you, especially if you get some surgical and some medical specialties. But obviously you won't be able to shadow every possible specialty so you will need to do your homework and take the experiences you have and decide if you would want to still go into medicine if you couldn't get into the specialty you had at the top of the list. I was not interested in becoming a dentist so I didn't have the same struggle you did. I knew I wanted to be a physician and some of my experiences have me leaning towards a few different specialties but we will see where it goes. My shadowing and other clinical experiences made me realize that there are many different ways to practice medicine and that I was not really interested in surgery (for the most part). I got a lot of perspective on the pros and cons of various medical specialties and that helped me narrow it down but the variety of experiences and patients and specialties I saw ensured I would rather be a physician of pretty much any sort than not be a physician at all.



This is a decision you should make before you go to medical school. It would be a big waste of time and money to switch at that point.



Unfortunately your options are get one degree or both but there isn't a middle ground where you get to study and see how well you do before you decide which to do. So this seems to be a bit of a moot point. It doesn't exist.
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I understand what you mean. I'll probably just spend this next year figuring out what to do, probably take the DAT and MCAT both just to give myself options.

Just out of curiosity, what do Med Students do if they don't get into their desired specialties? Do they wait a year and apply again or do they just suck it up and do a specialty they do not prefer as much? Could you just give me a quick summary of how the match process works since it seems like you already know the system.
 
Shak Muscles said:
Lol why does SDN even exist then?
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SDN is a community where we answer questions, yes. But usually situation dependent questions with no clear cut answer. You don't need adcoms, residents, attendings, and medical students to give you a run down of how the match works - there's videos on youtube that show that. We expect that you are just as invested in your education as we are, and are doing your part in understanding the process.
 
chaim123 said:
SDN is a community where we answer questions, yes. But usually situation dependent questions with no clear cut answer. You don't need adcoms, residents, attendings, and medical students to give you a run down of how the match works - there's videos on youtube that show that. We expect that you are just as invested in your education as we are, and are doing your part in understanding the process.
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Nah you're right. I should have just googled my questions. But tbf over 95% of questions on SDN can be answered by google or by using google to form your own opinion, but sometimes it's good to hear other opinions from other humans and not just google.

Like for example you can probably just google and find out the lifestyle and procedures that a certain doctor performs from google/youtube, but most schools still recommend that you shadow doctors so you can learn from a human and not google what the profession is all about.
 
Shak Muscles said:
Nah you're right. I should have just googled my questions. But tbf over 95% of questions on SDN can be answered by google or by using google to form your own opinion, but sometimes it's good to hear other opinions from other humans and not just google.

Like for example you can probably just google and find out the lifestyle and procedures that a certain doctor performs from google/youtube, but most schools still recommend that you shadow doctors so you can learn from a human and not google what the profession is all about.
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Yes, but we can't give you our opinion on how the match works. That is a fact that there is no need to discuss.
 
The only such thing I've heard of is OMFS. I don't think it's a truly combined program, and it seems like the MD students at my institution that are in the OMFS program have already completed their DDS by the time they start medical school.

I don't know how having both a DDS and an MD - outside of the situation of OMFS - will serve you in any way. I highly doubt you'll be able to viably open up a combined dental/medicine practice, for example. The payer structures and expectations from patients is just too different.
 
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