Combining being a doctor with flying

[Bjams]

Most of my life I have wanted to be a pilot, but in high school I wanted to be a doctor. I'm two years into medical school and still want to be a doctor enough to go on to residency. Do any of you know of ways to combine being a pilot and a doctor that does not include being a doctor who flies as a hobby?

My dream job would be piloting an airplane to sick people, taking care of them, and then flying back. Ideas?

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[thechad]

My dream job would be piloting an airplane to sick people, taking care of them, and then flying back. Ideas?

LOL, are you serious?

 

[FrickenhugeMD]

Most of my life I have wanted to be a pilot, but in high school I wanted to be a doctor. I'm two years into medical school and still want to be a doctor enough to go on to residency. Do any of you know of ways to combine being a pilot and a doctor that does not include being a doctor who flies as a hobby?

My dream job would be piloting an airplane to sick people, taking care of them, and then flying back. Ideas?

Not sure about the plane to help people then fly back, but the Armed Forces (not sure which branches) have 'Flight Surgeons' who fly fighter jets and are surgeons. I'm sure a search could bring something like this up

 

[Bjams]

LOL, are you serious?

The chad, I'm serious as a heart attack, so if anyone else has anything productive to add, such as programs similar to the Royal Flying Doctors of Australia, perhaps something in a remote place such as Alaska, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks in advance.

 

[Bjams]

Not sure about the plane to help people then fly back, but the Armed Forces (not sure which branches) have 'Flight Surgeons' who fly fighter jets and are surgeons. I'm sure a search could bring something like this up

Thanks a lot! I've looked into this before, but thought that Flight Surgeons only took care of pilots, but weren't actually pilots. I looked closer and there actually are positions in which physician-pilots fly and take care of other people in their squadron. It's certainly another avenue for me to consider. Thanks again.

 

[phospho]

if you really like something, it doesn't mean you have to make it your job.

It's like me saying that I like to play baseball, but I also like medicine, so I am looking for a job that combines the two of them. (i'm not comparing flying to baseball by the way - just a random example).

why not be a doctor and fly as a hobby?

I know 2 doctors who practice medicine and are pilots. Each has his own plane and flies for fun when they're off.

 

[midn]

Thanks a lot! I've looked into this before, but thought that Flight Surgeons only took care of pilots, but weren't actually pilots. I looked closer and there actually are positions in which physician-pilots fly and take care of other people in their squadron. It's certainly another avenue for me to consider. Thanks again.

I'm not sure if this is what you really want. Military medicine is a completely different beast than civilian. Head over to the military medicine forum and see if you can get more info. Most of them are people that have had the worst experiences with milmed, so they are going to be pretty bias, but they'll still provide you with objective information.

I don't think flight surgeons really do that much flying. They are allowed to put in hours on planes, but only if there are spots available. Highest priority goes to the pilots. Also, your role as a physician is pretty limited in itself. Granted, my exposure to flight surgeons was brief, but it didn't seem very exciting. They largely just seem to check off boxes to give you the green light on flying. Very basic physical examinations.

In general, I think I would avoid trying to combine very unrelated interests since you'll end up fulfilling neither to their full extent. Why not become a doctor and do some recreational flying on the side?

-Edit- Sorry, looks like phospho already said it. Still, the point stands.

 

[lowbudget]

Most of my life I have wanted to be a pilot, but in high school I wanted to be a doctor. I'm two years into medical school and still want to be a doctor enough to go on to residency. Do any of you know of ways to combine being a pilot and a doctor that does not include being a doctor who flies as a hobby?

My dream job would be piloting an airplane to sick people, taking care of them, and then flying back. Ideas?

Ever heard of Aerospace Medicine?
http://www.utmb.edu/pmr/ASM_2007.htm
http://www.rocketdocs.org/

May not be exactly what you're looking for... but medical care for astronauts is pretty cool...

Most of the med-evac are flown by flight nurses. I'm sure if you wanted to do med-evac, they'd love to have a doc on-board.

 

[thechad]

The chad, I'm serious as a heart attack, so if anyone else has anything productive to add, such as programs similar to the Royal Flying Doctors of Australia, perhaps something in a remote place such as Alaska, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks in advance.

I highly doubt that doctors are flying those planes. Becoming a commercial pilot is not easy. I heard most of them are retired Air Force pilots, but don't quote me on that.

 

[turkeyjerky]

Not sure about the plane to help people then fly back, but the Armed Forces (not sure which branches) have 'Flight Surgeons' who fly fighter jets and are surgeons. I'm sure a search could bring something like this up

I don't think flight surgeons are actually surgeons--I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that they only actually complete their internship year plus an eight week course in flight school.

 

[cpants]

While there might be some opportunities to fly as a flight surgeon, it almost certainly will not be a regular part of your job.

I think if you truly want to be a doctor who flies somewhere to take care of patients, you are going to need to go somewhere extremely remote, a place which would require that kind of service. Alaska was a decent idea I saw mentioned...maybe some kind of international medical career flying from village to village in Africa or something? Another idea I had was to set up some kind of boutique practice for the superrich, in which you could fly to wherever they are (business, traveling, etc) if they get sick. Doubt there is much demand for that though.

 

[OncoCaP]

Most of my life I have wanted to be a pilot, but in high school I wanted to be a doctor. I'm two years into medical school and still want to be a doctor enough to go on to residency. Do any of you know of ways to combine being a pilot and a doctor that does not include being a doctor who flies as a hobby?

My dream job would be piloting an airplane to sick people, taking care of them, and then flying back. Ideas?

Seems unlikely. Probably better to decide which you prefer and keep the other as a hobby. One of my classmates quit medical school to fly.

 

[nlax30]

Flight surgeons?? They really aren't pilots OR surgeons, the title is a little misleading. They serve mainly as primary care for aircrew, though they may get some brief flight training they are not given "pilot" status.

Not sure of anything specific that's going to combine medical care with you doing the actual flying. There are all sorts of medical air transportation groups but I'm not sure how often a physician is part of the flight team, usual it's an RN or advanced paramedic who's with the patient, though I'm sure a physician can be requested.

I'd say keep it as a hobby. For the most part I would think these groups and patients want the physician to focus on being the physician and the pilot to focus on being the pilot.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

Agree with the above. Flying is a perk the recruiters advertise, but the only flying most get to do is very minimal and not anything connected to their job as a doctor. It's more that you make friends with some of the pilots, and they let you go up with them. Even that is pretty much in the past, as the AF at least is phasing out 2-seater fighters.

 

[njbmd]

Most of my life I have wanted to be a pilot, but in high school I wanted to be a doctor. I'm two years into medical school and still want to be a doctor enough to go on to residency. Do any of you know of ways to combine being a pilot and a doctor that does not include being a doctor who flies as a hobby?

My dream job would be piloting an airplane to sick people, taking care of them, and then flying back. Ideas?

I picked up my general aviation license while in residency. You can fly anytime that you want. I mostly fly to and from meetings as well as for enjoyment. Nothing stops me from getting more ratings and doing more extensive flying. Unless you have something very special that you do in medicine or live in a very remote area with few physicians, most physicians don't NEED to fly to their patients (the opposite is true).

 

[JacW]

I highly doubt that doctors are flying those planes. Becoming a commercial pilot is not easy. I heard most of them are retired Air Force pilots, but don't quote me on that.

Actually, the Royal Flying Doctor Service in Australia prefers the pilots to be doctors as that means one less person on the plane and more space for patients and medical equipment.
To the OP, if you are really serious about combining your love of flying and medicine, the RFDS or a similar organisation is definitely a good option. In Australia at least, it's a very legitimate career path.

 

[physics junkie]

Looking back now I see being an air force pilot would have been significantly more enjoyable than being a medical student.

L-39 Albatross. You will be mine.

 

[thechad]

Actually, the Royal Flying Doctor Service in Australia prefers the pilots to be doctors as that means one less person on the plane and more space for patients and medical equipment.

And you know this because you are in or you know someone who is in the RFDS? I'm just curious, because the website doesn't list MD as one of the, "desirable qualifications," for the pilots.

EDIT: And if you do look at the desirable qualifications, I think you will find that they are very contradictory to training/working as a doctor (i.e. more than 10k hours as a pilot in command in various aircraft/situations, 8 years of experience, et cetera).

 

[bleeker10]

I read in a Reader's Digest about a doctor in Wyoming or Montana who had a practice where he flew his plane a couple hours to a village, saw patients for a day as a FP, and flew home. He does this on a weekly basis and it allows him to combine his passion for flying with medicine.

 

[Habeed]

A little common sense here?

To have the best chance of not crashing the plane, you need a huge number of hours, such that you fly almost all the time. A good pilot isn't an amateur.

To have the best chance of not killing the patient, especially if you're a surgeon, you need to have a huge number of hours, such that you're a doctor almost all of the time. A good doctor isn't an amateur.

Kind of sounds like you have to choose, and since you're already in medical school and have invested years of time, it looks like the choice has already been made for you...

I would very much like to fly as well some day, but I would always be an amateur pilot. As such, I would only want to fly when the risks are minimized.

 

[ChichiMD]

While there might be some opportunities to fly as a flight surgeon, it almost certainly will not be a regular part of your job.

I think if you truly want to be a doctor who flies somewhere to take care of patients, you are going to need to go somewhere extremely remote, a place which would require that kind of service. Alaska was a decent idea I saw mentioned...maybe some kind of international medical career flying from village to village in Africa or something? Another idea I had was to set up some kind of boutique practice for the superrich, in which you could fly to wherever they are (business, traveling, etc) if they get sick. Doubt there is much demand for that though.

I assume you mean country to country because if you are in African country, chanes are that you will commute just like the locals do... via bad untarred(spelling?) roads from village to village...def not on a jet.

Just a thot. Actually more than a thot..I lived in one of those for 14 years.

 

[Perrotfish]

The Internet

 

[Habeed]

Ever since I was a little boy I wanted to make a living mowing lawns. I'm about to start medical school, and I still like to cut the grass in my spare time. I dream about lawn mowing. Do you know a career that combines being a doctor and a lawn care man that does not just include cutting the grass as a hobby?

I'd like to go to the houses of the underserved and cure their obesity and type 2 diabetes, while cutting the grass at the same time.

 

[cpants]

All of my life I have wanted to be like Ron Jeremy. However in high school I decided I would like to be a doctor. I'm one year into medical school and still like medicine enough to want to continue. Do any of you know of a career that combines being a doctor and a porn star that does not include just getting laid as a hobby?

My dream job would to sex someone so well that I cure their cancer. Ideas?

It's funny, but I'm pretty sure the porn industry pays a pretty penny for doctors to ensure that their employees remain disease free.

 

[cpants]

I assume you mean country to country because if you are in African country, chanes are that you will commute just like the locals do... via bad untarred(spelling?) roads from village to village...def not on a jet.

Just a thot. Actually more than a thot..I lived in one of those for 14 years.

Well, I wasn't thinking a jet. I was thinking more a small prop plane, setting up small clinic days a few hundred miles from each other. Something like that. Obviously I didn't mean flying a jet to the next village 10 miles up the road.

 

[fsunavybabe]

Most of my life I have wanted to be a pilot, but in high school I wanted to be a doctor. I'm two years into medical school and still want to be a doctor enough to go on to residency. Do any of you know of ways to combine being a pilot and a doctor that does not include being a doctor who flies as a hobby?

My dream job would be piloting an airplane to sick people, taking care of them, and then flying back. Ideas?

RE: Alaska and flying.

Alaska public health docs fly out to rural areas and take care of people then fly back. I know of several docs in AK that do that in there primary practice, especially in the lower island areas, Ketchikan and the like, and those who also volunteer with the native villages doing fly-in medicine. You could also be a specialist and fly in to places, not even that remote of places and do clinic. Homer does not have a actual GYN, lots of family meds who can do GYN but not a GYN so all GYN surgeries etc had to go to anchorage. Well we did have one guy a few years back -awesome guy I shadowed actually- who would fly in (he would do it on a commercial though) and do a day of clinic and surgery and then fly out. Awesome job. My s.o. and I are kind of in the same area, we're training to be physicians and would LOVE to do fly-in medicine especially in our beloved little town (so perhaps we should keep in touch).

Other jobs you might be interested in (that is done a lot in AK also) is the flights with emergency cases. There are a lot of them where patients have to be flown to specialty care areas and so they require a doc and nurse to go with the patient. (AK does a lot of this to and from Seattle.) Some companies do require a doctor to be on the flight, not just a nurse or paramedic alone. Sometimes these flights have problems (like last year's helicopter crash near Sitka I believe) If the doc or nurse had known how to fly then perhaps there wouldn't have been as much of a problem. (The Navy thinks the same thing about their flight surgeons who do rescue work.)


And quit making fun guys - this person loves doing something and wants to think outside the box to do live the things he loves. Thats not funny that's brave, honest and commendable.

 

[Bjams]

I picked up my general aviation license while in residency. You can fly anytime that you want. I mostly fly to and from meetings as well as for enjoyment. Nothing stops me from getting more ratings and doing more extensive flying. Unless you have something very special that you do in medicine or live in a very remote area with few physicians, most physicians don't NEED to fly to their patients (the opposite is true).

njmb, what type of medicine are you in and do you own your own plane, share it, rent it?

Everyone else, thanks for all of the feedback. I think you've all made very good points. I particularly like the idea that people want their physician to focus on being a physician and their pilot to focus on being a pilot. Both are highly skilled and both can make mistakes which can be devastating. Combining flying flying with being a doctor, and essentially making a living doing both is rare. Then again, often times a dream isn't easy to come by, and often time dreams aren't fully realized. But I don't think any of those ideas has ever stopped someone who is "living the dream" from considering different avenues, as ridiculous as they may be!

 

[Bjams]

All of my life I have wanted to be like Ron Jeremy. However in high school I decided I would like to be a doctor. I'm one year into medical school and still like medicine enough to want to continue. Do any of you know of a career that combines being a doctor and a porn star that does not include just getting laid as a hobby?

My dream job would to sex someone so well that I cure their cancer. Ideas?

thanks again to everyone who gave thoughtful consideration to my question. sounds like there really are options out there. with that, i'd like to alert habeed and parrotfish that they are douche bags (but they are likely already aware of that, seeing as how at least one of them has been on SDN for over five years bashing what other people have to say.) keep up the good work, guys, you are doing a great job!

 

[njbmd]

njmb, what type of medicine are you in and do you own your own plane, share it, rent it?

Everyone else, thanks for all of the feedback. I think you've all made very good points. I particularly like the idea that people want their physician to focus on being a physician and their pilot to focus on being a pilot. Both are highly skilled and both can make mistakes which can be devastating. Combining flying flying with being a doctor, and essentially making a living doing both is rare. Then again, often times a dream isn't easy to come by, and often time dreams aren't fully realized. But I don't think any of those ideas has ever stopped someone who is "living the dream" from considering different avenues, as ridiculous as they may be!

I'm an academic surgeon and I rent my plane. Again, if your love for flying outweighs your love of medicine, then being a professional pilot is going to be a great vocation for you. If you love medicine, then the practice of medicine is going to be a good vocation for you.

Many former pilots have gone into medicine and many physicians have learned to fly. I don't personally know of anyone who completed medical school and residency only to leave medicine and become a professional pilot but I am sure that there are some.

I can tell you that in many remote areas, being able to fly to your patients is a good skill and that many physicians are pilots for that reason or that they just love to fly and do so. I can also tell you that one of my former surgery professors (a vascular surgeon) went down in a plane crash and burned his hands badly but still operates at a very high level. He still flies too. He is a great surgeon and a good flier who enjoys being up.

Can you do both professions at the same time? Perhaps you can.

 

[Habeed]

Can you do both professions at the same time? Perhaps you can.

That was never the question. Sure, you could be a physician half the week and fly planes as an instructor for a flight school, or perhaps small regional jets for an airline the other half the week. You don't need many flight hours these days to get a job doing that, and it would be much easier to pay the tuition for flight training if you had the income of a physician.

The question isn't could you do both at the same time, it's should you?

You can't ever be as good at both professions as you could be at one. Period. And both professions, other peoples lives literally depend on you doing your job to the limits of human performance.

 

[physics junkie]

That was never the question. Sure, you could be a physician half the week and fly planes as an instructor for a flight school, or perhaps small regional jets for an airline the other half the week. You don't need many flight hours these days to get a job doing that, and it would be much easier to pay the tuition for flight training if you had the income of a physician.

The question isn't could you do both at the same time, it's should you?

You can't ever be as good at both professions as you could be at one. Period. And both professions, other peoples lives literally depend on you doing your job to the limits of human performance.

Yes, but sometimes people make the greatest contributions by bridging two fields even if they have no great accomplishments in either field.

In terms of academics look at someone like Freeman Dyson who unified two theories of quantum electrodynamics because he had the split insight of a physicist and a mathematician. He was largely considered the go-between of the "Babylonian" and "Greek" scientists. A broader example would be astrophysicists communicating with physicians and realizing that the imaging software used by physicians would also be helpful to visualize large datasets in astrophysics. This is very real: http://www.medicexchange.com/Imported/imported-434.html .

People skilled in multiple fields often run across analagous problems that are completely solved in one field and can provide insight into the other field. If electrical engineers never bothered learning neuroscience we would not have many of the models that we have today.

It is premature to assume that being a pilot has nothing to do with being a physician because the two are distinguished by labels.

 

[silas2642]

Most of my life I have wanted to be a pilot, but in high school I wanted to be a doctor. I'm two years into medical school and still want to be a doctor enough to go on to residency. Do any of you know of ways to combine being a pilot and a doctor that does not include being a doctor who flies as a hobby?

My dream job would be piloting an airplane to sick people, taking care of them, and then flying back. Ideas?

Okay. Well, you're probably not going to be able to do THAT, but if you're a physician who actually makes money and has time on his/her hands (i.e. dermatologist, anesthesiologist, radiologist, etc.) you could get your pilot's license and maybe even a plane someday and fly in your spare time. How about them apples? Of course doing this pretty much excludes any of the primary care specialties, but don't worry, those are all being taken over by the nurse practitioners anyway.

 

[Habeed]

Yes, but sometimes people make the greatest contributions by bridging two fields even if they have no great accomplishments in either field.

The difference is, physics is a field where you can sit around and think up new theories all day without having to do anything "correctly". No one's life depends on you performing or doing anything in particular. Other than the obvious, most basic stuff like using radiation shielding. True, if you want tenure or grant money, you better work your tail off, but plenty of academics survive for years without either of those things.

 

[Perrotfish]

is serious buisness

 

[Bjams]

All of my life I have wanted to be like Ron Jeremy. However in high school I decided I would like to be a doctor. I'm one year into medical school and still like medicine enough to want to continue. Do any of you know of a career that combines being a doctor and a porn star that does not include just getting laid as a hobby?

My dream job would to sex someone so well that I cure their cancer. Ideas?

I think several posters have already given examples of doctors that fly to different areas and treat people, so you may as well recant your criticism. You are partially right in that MOST doctors don't do that, but a lot can be done with an M.D. And finally, in regards to your "IMHO/apologies" comment, I don't think any opinion coming from someone sick enough to make jokes about sleeping with cancer patients is worth a damn. There's something that is a big deal in medicine called professionalism and you clearly lack it. IMHO, if I were you, I would be ashamed of myself posting something a sick as you did and not even realizing it was wrong to the point that you come back into the conversation expecting to be heard. Good luck with life.

 

[Habeed]

Heh. It's the SDN version of Godwin's law : any heated discussion eventually gets to a criticism of "You just said or proposed that, and you're a doctor in training?"

I personally thought Perrotfish was making a good point : being a porn star is completely unrelated to medicine. Most of us like having sex, and wouldn't mind doing it as a career, but there's no practical way to mix sex and medicine. The same for flying : lots of people dream of flying a plane, but there's no practical way to mix it with medicine, either.

Yes, there's a few doctors the fly in remote areas, but everything in life in a compromise. If you really were part of a royal flying doctor service, and spent many hours flying planes around, your medical skills would become rusty. You cannot be a world class medical expert and a professional pilot at the same time.

 

[Bjams]

Heh. It's the SDN version of Godwin's law : any heated discussion eventually gets to a criticism of "You just said or proposed that, and you're a doctor in training?"

I personally thought Perrotfish was making a good point : being a porn star is completely unrelated to medicine. Most of us like having sex, and wouldn't mind doing it as a career, but there's no practical way to mix sex and medicine. The same for flying : lots of people dream of flying a plane, but there's no practical way to mix it with medicine, either.

I don't think you are much better, seeing as how you joined right in with him. Basically, if you wouldn't post something with your name attached to it, you probably shouldn't post it.

Also, why do you find pleasure in making fun of people?

 

[Bjams]

That was never the question. Sure, you could be a physician half the week and fly planes as an instructor for a flight school, or perhaps small regional jets for an airline the other half the week. You don't need many flight hours these days to get a job doing that, and it would be much easier to pay the tuition for flight training if you had the income of a physician.

The question isn't could you do both at the same time, it's should you?

You can't ever be as good at both professions as you could be at one. Period. And both professions, other peoples lives literally depend on you doing your job to the limits of human performance.

Sorry Habeed, I was in fact asking for ideas about how it can be done. I did not ask "I dream of such and such, should I do it."

 

[Habeed]

Sorry Habeed, I was in fact asking for ideas about how it can be done.

Fine, then this is much easier a question.

1. Finish medical school and residency.

2. As an attending, pay the pricey tuition to attend private flying schools. It's a common misconception that you have to come from the military in order to be an airline pilot. That is not true, there are expensive private flying schools that teach you how to fly. They start you out with small planes, and eventually teach you how to fly multi-engined jets. There's many classroom hours, simulator hours, and some actual behind the stick practice in actual aircraft, which is the expensive part.

Here's one of those schools right here. It takes 150 days to start from scratch until you have the certifications to fly those small regional jets for an airline. (you know, those tiny things you take to go a few hundred miles from city to city) http://www.atpflightschool.com/

Notice that the total cost is $75,000 for the program that gives you sufficient flight time to get hired at an airline. As the return on investment is very poor (you'll be paid around $30,000 a year to fly for an airline), you should treat it like a luxury purchase and subsidize this career using your income as a physician.

So, after you finish residency, do locum tens work for a while to save up $75,000 + living expenses (gee I sure hope you don't have a family because they won't be too happy about this), then go to this school and learn to fly.

Once you're certified, keep doing locum tens work and work for an airline the rest of the time.

3. Presto! Doctor and professional pilot!

Notice the last part. If you're a male, and you enjoy having sex with your wife and having kids...most spouses aren't going to be too happy with you cutting your income by 2/3s to go play pilot. Even a decent, non gold-digging spouse will not be impressed by you choosing to make $80k a year instead of $240k, making you a significantly worse provider for your family. You'd never have enough time to rise up through the ranks of an airline to get seniority and make the kind of money that an experienced pilot can make. (it takes 15+ years to get to the 6 figure mark)

Anyways, that last catch is why no-one does this kind of thing. It's the same reason doctors don't become race car drivers, professional snowboarders, or professional sex workers. All those things sound pretty fun, but the cost is too high.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

There is nothing inherently wrong about being a doctor-pilot. It falls, like so many other things, into the realms of "dream jobs." Other frequent dream jobs encountered on SDN are the

"work half the year and do medical missions the other half"
"be at the top of my field without sacrificing any family time"
"do 3 residencies so I'll be prepared for what ever walks through the door of my clinic in rural Zambia."
"find a family medicine program where I can learn surgery and then find a job where I do do emergency c-sections/appys."

None of these things are theoretically impossible, it is just very important to realize that if 10 people set out for each one probably less than 1 on average will make it there. The biggest problem is not with your dream, your determination, or your commendable ethical nature it is with your J-O-B.

Employers/groups/hospitals are pretty much on a hunt for people who will show up, work hard, make them money, and not cause problems. At any juncture where your dream interferes with the above your dream will lose.

 

[Perrotfish]

I think several posters have already given examples of doctors that fly to different areas and treat people, so you may as well recant your criticism. You are partially right in that MOST doctors don't do that, but a lot can be done with an M.D. And finally, in regards to your "IMHO/apologies" comment, I don't think any opinion coming from someone sick enough to make jokes about sleeping with cancer patients is worth a damn. There's something that is a big deal in medicine called professionalism and you clearly lack it. IMHO, if I were you, I would be ashamed of myself posting something a sick as you did and not even realizing it was wrong to the point that you come back into the conversation expecting to be heard. Good luck with life.

You're clearly deeply offended by this conversation. The internet is serious business and I applogize. I delete my posts and wish you the best in your doctor piloting.

 

[physics junkie]

The difference is, physics is a field where you can sit around and think up new theories all day without having to do anything "correctly". No one's life depends on you performing or doing anything in particular. Other than the obvious, most basic stuff like using radiation shielding. True, if you want tenure or grant money, you better work your tail off, but plenty of academics survive for years without either of those things.

Your argument is off the point and wrong. Communication between fields is absolutely essential. I couldn't begin to list the myriad of times in scientific history where a clear solution existed to a problem that the other field faced. Please go tell all those physicists working on new imaging technologies that they are not saving lives because they are not the ones reading the results that their machines produce. Tell the physician go-betweens that they are not serving their patients well by venturing outside of medicine.

It is unfortunate that most physicians(even those that publish) have such limited training in statistics that they have no idea if what they read is garbage is not or of how ignorant they truly are. Once you can derive the Chi-square formula you're a pro, right?

CMU Algorithm Enables Chain of 10 Kidney Transplants
Research, News

Using an algorithm developed by a CMU computer science research team, a chain of 10 (and counting) kidney transplants has been made possible. The team consists of faculty members Tuomas Sandholm and Avrim Blum, and PhD student David Abraham. A press release is available here.

So-called paired swaps, where two live kidney donors swap recipients in the hopes of increasing the chances of a tissue match, are fairly routine in transplant surgery today. Going beyond paired swaps has the potential to enable drastically more people to find matching donors; however, this turns out to be computationally difficult and thus significantly more sophisticated algorithms are needed.

http://www.csdhead.cs.cmu.edu/blog/2009/03/17/cmu-algorithm-enables-chain-of-10-kidney-transplants/

Did these comp. sci. guys save lives in your opinion? 😎

Someone who is aware of problems in one field and is mildly educated in another field can bring forth great results. In my opinion it is a gift so rare to have multiple passions that it is a waste not to use it. For the breakthrough above it is sad to me that an algorithm like this could have been developed 15 years ago if someone was only aware of the problem and mildly aware that a solution could exist in computer science.

I doubt the care provided by a physician would deteriorate simply because they have other interests. Most of us have maximum amounts of time we are willing or capable of dedicating to one field and actually feel recharged after venturing outside of medicine for a bit.

 

[physics junkie]

Mendelian genetics were rediscovered in 1900. However, it remained somewhat controversial for several years as it was not then known how it could cause continuous characteristics. Udny Yule (1902) argued against Mendelism because he thought that dominant alleles would increase in the population. The American William E. Castle (1903) showed that without selection, the genotype frequencies would remain stable. Karl Pearson (1903) found one equilibrium position with values of p = q = 0.5. Reginald Punnett, unable to counter Yule's point, introduced the problem to G. H. Hardy, a British mathematician, with whom he played cricket. Hardy was a pure mathematician and held applied mathematics in some contempt; his view of biologists' use of mathematics comes across in his 1908 paper where he describes this as "very simple".

To the Editor of Science: I am reluctant to intrude in a discussion concerning matters of which I have no expert knowledge, and I should have expected the very simple point which I wish to make to have been familiar to biologists. However, some remarks of Mr. Udny Yule, to which Mr. R. C. Punnett has called my attention, suggest that it may still be worth making...
Suppose that Aa is a pair of Mendelian characters, A being dominant, and that in any given generation the number of pure dominants (AA), heterozygotes (Aa), and pure recessives (aa) are as p:2q:r. Finally, suppose that the numbers are fairly large, so that mating may be regarded as random, that the sexes are evenly distributed among the three varieties, and that all are equally fertile. A little mathematics of the multiplication-table type is enough to show that in the next generation the numbers will be as (p+q)2:2(p+q)(q+r)🙁q+r)2, or as p1:2q1:r1, say.
The interesting question is — in what circumstances will this distribution be the same as that in the generation before? It is easy to see that the condition for this is q2 = pr. And since q12 = p1r1, whatever the values of p, q, and r may be, the distribution will in any case continue unchanged after the second generation
The principle was thus known as Hardy's law in the English-speaking world until Curt Stern (1943) pointed out that it had first been formulated independently in 1908 by the German physician Wilhelm Weinberg (see Crow 1999). Others have tried to associate Castle's name with the Law because of his work in 1903, but it is only rarely seen as the Hardy–Weinberg–Castle Law.

Yep. Nothing to offer, at all. 😛

The Royal Flying Doctors or whatever they are called is a prime example of how interests outside of medicine can produce great results for patients. It matches up patients who are unable to get to a hospital for whatever reason(lack of transportation, funds, energy) with physicians who also enjoy flying thus making them more willing to incur the risks associated with flight and the loss in profit of not having a traditional practice. At the very least it saves the higher cost of having a pilot aboard to take the physician around.

 

[Gibbles]

In the Dakotas, I've rotated with both a General Surgeon and an Ophthamologist that flew to numerous outreach rotations on almost a weekly basis. In fact, the Ophthamologist owns three airplanes. A WWII trainer (can't remember the name), a twin engine plan, and single engine Cesna.

He loves it.

However, good luck getting any form of life insurance...ever. Doctors that fly are pretty much uninsureable, because they seem to crash all the time as they can't keep their skills up.

 

[Habeed]

Yep. Nothing to offer, at all. 😛

Not what I said. I said that a PhD, or nearly any worker, usually works a job where if you don't keep your skills up, you just work a little slower and less efficiently. Thus, it's a viable career to be a mathematician AND a microbiologist. After all, worst case scenario, you'll take a little longer to do a math proof or have a little more trouble culturing a bacterium.

But with medicine or piloting, being a "little worse" because you are dividing your resources between multiple distinct careers means that you would be more likely to make operative errors (if you were a surgeon) or to crash planes. That's unacceptable, because people die.

Nothing to do with saving lives.

 

[cpants]

Not what I said. I said that a PhD, or nearly any worker, usually works a job where if you don't keep your skills up, you just work a little slower and less efficiently. Thus, it's a viable career to be a mathematician AND a microbiologist. After all, worst case scenario, you'll take a little longer to do a math proof or have a little more trouble culturing a bacterium.

But with medicine or piloting, being a "little worse" because you are dividing your resources between multiple distinct careers means that you would be more likely to make operative errors (if you were a surgeon) or to crash planes. That's unacceptable, because people die.

Nothing to do with saving lives.

First of all, I think you miscomprehended the scenario. The OP isn't talking about being a professional pilot flying passenger planes and a physician at the same time. He was talking about incorporating flying into his career as a physician. Many posters above seem to believe this is possible, and in fact, is practiced by many doctors in extremely rural areas.

I get what you're saying about competence, but even if it's true it doesn't matter. While you may be a slightly less capable pilot or doctor by doing both, as long as you meet the standards to maintain both licenses, you are ok. I also don't really buy the idea that he won't be able to stay competent as a physician while maintaining a pilot's license. We aren't talking about jumbo jets here. Many people earn and maintain their pilot licenses through part-time weekend classes. There should still be plenty of time to do the necessary reading and practice to maintain medical competence. Obviously he won't be as good a pilot as a military or commercial pilot who flies full-time, but that is not the standard we have deemed necessary to permit someone the privilege of flight.

 

[zephyrhills123]

To clarify earlier points, when I was in ODS (Navy bootcamp for HPSP students) they said that flight surgeons are required to fly a certain amount of hours (not very much, but at least you'd be guaranteed some flight time). Essentially, though, they are basically the primary care providers of their squadron and not meant to be flying on missions or anything like that.

You can read more about it in this document: http://safetycenter.navy.mil/aviation/aeromedical/downloads/FlightSurgeonDuties.pdf

Specifically, on page 6 it says:
While we are on the topic of flight time, remember that you are on temporary Aviation Career Incentive Pay. This means that you don’t get paid unless you fly. OPNAVINST 3710.7 series says that you need 24 hours every 6 months.

Most of the flight surgeons my dad knew loved their job.

 

[DrJosephKim]

Go into the military and become a flight doc/flight surgeon.

 

[Perrotfish]

Go into the military and become a flight doc/flight surgeon.

From my mostly second hand knowledge of milimed: flight doc's job is to take care of pilots, not to pilot planes. They recieve some preliminary flight training, quite a bit more in the Navy than the other two services, and then log hours every once in a while as a backseater. Mostly they're on the ground. In terms of both hours in the air and incorperation into your practice it basically amounts to the same thing as flying as a hobby (though the plane is WAY cooler than the cessna you'd be flying).

Also a flight doc generally, though not always, is selected from the ranks of intern year complete only GMOs, so doing this probably means you didn't get straight through residency training. Not necessarily something that you'd hope for. This is more problematic in the Navy than the AF than the Army, BTW.

 

[Raygun77]

Come to Australia. Join the Flying Doctor Service 🙂.

http://www.flyingdoctor.net/

One of our lecturers is a colorectal surgeon who was involved with this program. And loved it!