Combining being a doctor with flying

[Droopy Snoopy]

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Go into the military and become a flight doc/flight surgeon.

I thought we'd covered this already, but I would invite the OP and anyone else who is interested to visit the Military Medicine subforum if they want further information on the aviation opportunities, or lack thereof, for flight surgeons.

 

[MonkeyChow]

The Flying Doctors of East Africa do combine medicine with flying, though I don't think the doctors do any actual flying. Here's a link: http://uk.amref.org/what-we-do/flying-doctors/

 

[deleted77919]

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[atomi]

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[scudrunner]

I'm a pilot as well, and one of the things I thought of doing was becoming an aviation medical examiner (AME) for the FAA on a part-time basis. The guy who has done my physicals says that the training is not bad and the FAA gives him extra money to fly with so he can stay current.

 

[StevenRF]

I was thinking of trying to do something similar, but I still haven't found a way.

There are the two civilian residencies in aerospace medicine, ohio and galviston, and one got destroyed by a hurricane. I've tried seeing if they have subI's... no go. The two space centers have 4 week subI's. Also, you have to do another residency with them, usually IM. After you're done though, the only real options I've seen are either nasa, AME, or like CMO positions in aviation companies. NASA and AME pay crap... like family practice crap, check out the nasa pay scales. Business positions don't actually practice medicine. And your chances of making it onto a space flight... super slim.

The other issue is the flying. To just fly a jet, you need the following
VFR, multi engine, IFR, turbine/turboprop, and then type rating. I did my VFR in SEL and rotorcraft while a MS2, but it still was almost 15k in loans. Multi and IFR are expensive. 100$/hr wet for a 40 year old cesna. Multi's in the 250 range, jets 1000+. It's almost impossible to afford unless you do years as a flight instructor then get picked up by an airline for training. It takes a crap load of hours to get your ATP so you can actually fly people/patients around. On top of all that you gotta be good... just wait till you have your first engine out to scare the living crap out of you.

I still haven't figured out how to make it work. If you can I'm all ears. So far just as a hobby is the closest balance I've found. Still I don't know if you can ever make it past prop planes on a current doc's income.

 

[eagledriver]

Looking back now I see being an air force pilot would have been significantly more enjoyable than being a medical student.

L-39 Albatross. You will be mine.

I hope it's not all that bad. I'm about to leave the cockpit for med school.
It's been mentioned before, but the Air Force does have pilot-physicians. There are only 15 of them at the moment because it means med school+residency+undergraduate pilot training(1 year)+follow-on training(~1.5years assuming fighters), not necessarily in that order. If you're willing to put in the effort, it's an option. Certainly not for everybody, I understand. Here's the link to the reg if anyone wants to know more:

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI11-405.pdf

 

[neuroprotector]

I don't remember what it's called, but I think there's some family medicine residencies in Alaska that make wilderness survival and care for isolated populations (via plane) possible. They brought representatives and a video to our school once, and showed the residents piloting planes with old crotchety guys.

I think it might be at providence?

 

[Perrotfish]

I hope it's not all that bad. I'm about to leave the cockpit for med school.
It's been mentioned before, but the Air Force does have pilot-physicians. There are only 15 of them at the moment because it means med school+residency+undergraduate pilot training(1 year)+follow-on training(~1.5years assuming fighters), not necessarily in that order. If you're willing to put in the effort, it's an option. Certainly not for everybody, I understand. Here's the link to the reg if anyone wants to know more:

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/share.../AFI11-405.pdf

That's the most amazing boondogle I have ever seen.

 

[GeraldMonroe]

That's the most amazing boondogle I have ever seen.

Purpose of Pilot-Physicians.

The Air Force implements the PPP to provide integrated operational and aeromedical guidance for the purpose of improving the success and safety of Air Force weapon systems and missions. Pilot-physicians must be involved in the research, development, testing, and evaluation of new Air Force systems and missions as early as possible to realize the greatest effectiveness and cost savings. Pilot-physicians also provide education and analysis to the Air Force. The effective use of pilot-physicians optimizes mission capability, performance, safety, and cost. Pilot-physicians are particularly well suited to help develop new aircraft, life support equipment, and avionics or software upgrades, and to ensure that changing missions can be accommodated by crews and aircraft. Pilot-physicians can help identify and prevent human performance and man-machine interface problems from reaching mature operational systems. They also identify and help correct such problems in systems already in use.​

So the concept is, a physician who knows about the "limits on human performance" such as fatigue and G-forces can best evaluate new aircraft by learning to fly them at the cost of millions of dollars. ​

Indeed, I'm pretty of skeptical. Even if a doctor knew a tremendous amount about G-forces, I don't see what purpose it would serve to actually fly an aircraft around and experience the blackouts and redouts himself. One data point doesn't prove anything. It would be analogous to testing a drug's effectiveness on yourself as a patient, and primarily relying on that information to make decisions.​

In any case, couldn't a doctor ride in the back seat of an aircraft, or use telemetry from a real pilot, to collect the data?​

With that said, one would expect that being a fighter pilot and a doctor might give one a slight advantage in trying to pick someone up at the local bar.

 

[scudrunner]

I hope it's not all that bad. I'm about to leave the cockpit for med school.
It's been mentioned before, but the Air Force does have pilot-physicians. There are only 15 of them at the moment because it means med school+residency+undergraduate pilot training(1 year)+follow-on training(~1.5years assuming fighters), not necessarily in that order. If you're willing to put in the effort, it's an option. Certainly not for everybody, I understand. Here's the link to the reg if anyone wants to know more:

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI11-405.pdf

This would be my dream job, if the military wasn't so... rigid. 🙄

Those guys are kinda like test-pilot too, since you would be involved with R&D.

It kinda sounds like the best way to go about this would be to 1) go through pilot training, 2) play pilot for awhile, 3) go to medical school on the USAF's tab 4) go through an aerospace medicine residency, 4) Apply for the physician-pilot program.

You'd have to be a real superstar, mentally and physically, to be selected at each step.

 

[Perrotfish]

It kinda sounds like the best way to go about this would be to 1) go through pilot training, 2) play pilot for awhile, 3) go to medical school on the USAF's tab 4) go through an aerospace medicine residency, 4) Apply for the physician-pilot program.

The downside of 'playing pilot for awhile' is that

A) 'Awhile' in this case is ridiculously long (10 years fixed wing, 6 year rotary, I believe)

and

B) I don't think you can get a guarantee of a fixed wing contract. Maybe AF is an exception to the rule, but I know that in some of the other services all you can get is a 'flight' contract. That means you can be certed on a lot of non-fighter jet type planes, as well as helos. I believe one of the few advantages of flight surgery is that everyone gets their pilot hours in on a fighter-ish fixed wing aircraft (could be wrong, but it's all anyone has ever mentioned doing as a flight surgeon, at least to me).

Now I did notice that the Physician Pilot Program

1) does not require a residency

and

2) Does require multiple years as a flight surgeon.

I'm guess this program was maybe designed as compensation to give docs who they could never find a residency for a reason to rejoin? I can't imagine how much medical research one could accomplish flying a jet. Even if you wanted to do research in the air, what would be wrong with being a backseater like any other flight doc? Anyway, that's just my theory.

 

[eagledriver]

The downside of 'playing pilot for awhile' is that

A) 'Awhile' in this case is ridiculously long (10 years fixed wing, 6 year rotary, I believe)

and

B) I don't think you can get a guarantee of a fixed wing contract. Maybe AF is an exception to the rule, but I know that in some of the other services all you can get is a 'flight' contract. That means you can be certed on a lot of non-fighter jet type planes, as well as helos. I believe one of the few advantages of flight surgery is that everyone gets their pilot hours in on a fighter-ish fixed wing aircraft (could be wrong, but it's all anyone has ever mentioned doing as a flight surgeon, at least to me).

Now I did notice that the Physician Pilot Program

1) does not require a residency

and

2) Does require multiple years as a flight surgeon.

I'm guess this program was maybe designed as compensation to give docs who they could never find a residency for a reason to rejoin? I can't imagine how much medical research one could accomplish flying a jet. Even if you wanted to do research in the air, what would be wrong with being a backseater like any other flight doc? Anyway, that's just my theory.

Ten years is right for the pilot training commitment - after pilot training is done. So really you're talking more like 11. However, for the pilot-physician program, they specify that you should have about 3-6 years of operational flight experience (I have about five) and then go to med school. The rest of the commitment is paid for on the flip side of residency, after you return to active duty to be a flight surgeon and fly in the front seat.
Yes, it's a long, long commitment and journey. They do pay millions in flight training, and a few hundred grand for med school too. I'll probably never make half the money most of you will, but they pay me to fly one of the most advanced fighter jets in the most powerful air force the world has ever known. Tradeoffs.

 

[eagledriver]

The downside of 'playing pilot for awhile' is that


I believe one of the few advantages of flight surgery is that everyone gets their pilot hours in on a fighter-ish fixed wing aircraft (could be wrong, but it's all anyone has ever mentioned doing as a flight surgeon, at least to me).

Not true; flight surgeons are assigned to all types of flying squadrons. Heavies, helos, fighters, they all have pilots that need to go to an aerospace medicine clinic. So you could end up flying a C-17. Not as glamorous as flying an F-15, but they do get to travel around the world. A lot.
There are flight surgeons that don't really get to fly at all because the fighters don't have a back seat, i.e. A-10 and F-22.

 

[Perrotfish]

Not true; flight surgeons are assigned to all types of flying squadrons. Heavies, helos, fighters, they all have pilots that need to go to an aerospace medicine clinic. So you could end up flying a C-17. Not as glamorous as flying an F-15, but they do get to travel around the world. A lot.
There are flight surgeons that don't really get to fly at all because the fighters don't have a back seat, i.e. A-10 and F-22.

That's for your assignment as a flight surgeon, but I was thinking of flight school itself. I thought that pilots accepted for rotary trained exclusively on helos, whereas all physicians, at least initially, trained on fixed wing aircraft. Am I wrong about one/both?

 

[GeraldMonroe]

Eagledriver, that's incredibly cool that you're a fighter pilot. I do have to ask : why medical school? While I would like to think some surgeons have high adrenaline lifestyles, I'm under the impression that the overwhelming majority of doctors perform work that is much less exciting than flying an extreme performance warplane.

 

[eagledriver]

Eagledriver, that's incredibly cool that you're a fighter pilot. I do have to ask : why medical school? While I would like to think some surgeons have high adrenaline lifestyles, I'm under the impression that the overwhelming majority of doctors perform work that is much less exciting than flying an extreme performance warplane.

Man I've had to answer that question a bunch (at all of my interviews). I had an answer all prepared that I won't bore you with. But I'll tell you this much: flying fighter jets is a young man's/woman's endeavor. I've enjoyed it thoroughly and I still have a few years ahead of me. But when it came down to "what do I want to do when I really grow up," I just knew I didn't want to become an airline pilot. The day-to-day operations of a glorified bus driver are pretty mundane. It took me a long time to realize that I wanted a completely different career.
I'm lucky that I'll get to combine the two for a while. Eventually though, when I'm out of the military, I'll focus solely on my medical career. I'm sure I'll still fly - just not professionally.

 

[eagledriver]

That's for your assignment as a flight surgeon, but I was thinking of flight school itself. I thought that pilots accepted for rotary trained exclusively on helos, whereas all physicians, at least initially, trained on fixed wing aircraft. Am I wrong about one/both?

How pilot training works (at least in the Air Force) is that everyone flies the T-6 for the first six months and then you "track select" - the top folks tend to get sent on the fighter/bomber track to fly the T-38 for the last six months, helo guys will get sent to Ft Rucker in Alabama to learn to fly hueys with the Army, C-130 guys will get sent to fly the T-43, and everyone else will fly the T-1 (mostly cargo and tanker pilots). So if you want your choice of aircraft it's extremely important that you outperform your classmates. It can be pretty competitive.

 

[GeraldMonroe]

Do you want to be a surgeon or E.R. doctor?

 

[eagledriver]

Do you want to be a surgeon or E.R. doctor?

I'm gonna keep my options open, but yeah E.R. doc entices me a bit. I'm trying not to even sway one way or another because everyone tells me I'll change my mind 6-9 times during school.