COMLEX and USMLE rant

[Dr. Anonymouss]

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It really bugs me that there are two separate medical school exams EVEN WITH the merge of AOA and ACGME residencies. The majority of DO students take the USMLE and I guarantee the majority will continue to take this exam because PD’s will continue to hold a bias between the exams. We all understand that it’s just a money grab because there are much more efficient ways to test both MD and DO students.

This is how the testing should occur: there should be a standardized exam between both MD and DO students to eliminate all bias and prevent DO students from taking two separate exams. This exam could be the USMLE. Now we understand that DO students must be tested on OMM which is why the test DO students should be called the USMLE-O (for osteopathic distinction.) The overall grading would be the same for both MD and DO students while there would be a separate grade for the added content for DO students l. This could be in letter format (how the MCAT used to be scored). So a DO student could score a 245-G. Thoughts on this? But the better question is how do we make it happen...

 

[deleted936470]

get a MBA with your DO degree

 

[DrStephenStrange]

If you were a member of the NBOME, you wouldn't wanna lose all that money either.

 

[Goro]

If you were a member of the NBOME, you wouldn't wanna lose all that money either.

And that special uniqueness, either.

 

[Damson]

If you were a member of the NBOME, you wouldn't wanna lose all that money either.

This guy knows what's going on

 

[DO_or_Die]

Never gonna happen. It's all about the $ in higher education (and the world, really).

 

[Goro]

It really bugs me that there are two separate medical school exams EVEN WITH the merge of AOA and ACGME residencies. The majority of DO students take the USMLE and I guarantee the majority will continue to take this exam because PD’s will continue to hold a bias between the exams. We all understand that it’s just a money grab because there are much more efficient ways to test both MD and DO students.

This is how the testing should occur: there should be a standardized exam between both MD and DO students to eliminate all bias and prevent DO students from taking two separate exams. This exam could be the USMLE. Now we understand that DO students must be tested on OMM which is why the test DO students should be called the USMLE-O (for osteopathic distinction.) The overall grading would be the same for both MD and DO students while there would be a separate grade for the added content for DO students l. This could be in letter format (how the MCAT used to be scored). So a DO student could score a 245-G. Thoughts on this? But the better question is how do we make it happen...

1) Finish residency
2) Join AOA
3) Get a faculty job at a COM
4) Join NBOME
5) Change system from the inside.
6) Profit

 

[Deecee2DO]

Yeah i know none of us like it either but it is what it is so we have to suck it up and put up with it. At least we get to take the USMLE and have a chance to match anywhere we want (to a degree) us DO students just have to work harder the first 3 years of medical school to match where we want to. I didnt get the 510+ MCAT so now its time to play catch up and bust my ass

 

[Rogue42]

6) Profit

Ah, there it is. The real reason why things are done; Goro nails it again.

 

[Isoval]

Someone just tell NBOME that I'd happily be down to pay double what it currently costs to take COMLEX if we could just have like a one-hour exam of only OMM to tack on to our USMLE.

 

[Goro]

It really bugs me that there are two separate medical school exams EVEN WITH the merge of AOA and ACGME residencies. The majority of DO students take the USMLE and I guarantee the majority will continue to take this exam because PD’s will continue to hold a bias between the exams. We all understand that it’s just a money grab because there are much more efficient ways to test both MD and DO students.

This is how the testing should occur: there should be a standardized exam between both MD and DO students to eliminate all bias and prevent DO students from taking two separate exams. This exam could be the USMLE. Now we understand that DO students must be tested on OMM which is why the test DO students should be called the USMLE-O (for osteopathic distinction.) The overall grading would be the same for both MD and DO students while there would be a separate grade for the added content for DO students l. This could be in letter format (how the MCAT used to be scored). So a DO student could score a 245-G. Thoughts on this? But the better question is how do we make it happen...

As of right now, and for the foreseeable future, comlex is a tax on your screwing up your undergraduate GPA and or the MCAT

 

[Cornfed101]

Someone just tell NBOME that I'd happily be down to pay double what it currently costs to take COMLEX if we could just have like a one-hour exam of only OMM to tack on to our USMLE.

Yeah let's do this and then I'll vote for Bernie and he can wipe out all my debt. Win/win?

 

[deleted978973]

In 15-20 years it might be different... Maybe ACGME's next power move after the merger will be to start seriously scrutinizing certain aspects of the DO curriculum like cranial, lack of rotation sites, COMLEX redundancy, etc. and press them hard to make changes. I can personally tell you that the OMM faculty at my school are scared as hell about the changes taking place based on some things they say in our lectures.

 

[Cornfed101]

I can personally tell you that the OMM faculty at my school are scared as hell about the changes taking place based on some things they say in our lectures.

God forbid they have to teach evidence-based medicine

 

[Cardboard101]

In 15-20 years it might be different... Maybe ACGME's next power move after the merger will be to start seriously scrutinizing certain aspects of the DO curriculum like cranial, lack of rotation sites, COMLEX redundancy, etc. and press them hard to make changes. I can personally tell you that the OMM faculty at my school are scared as hell about the changes taking place based on some things they say in our lectures.

Except the ACGME has no control over any of these things and it can't press for anything. The AOA does. The only reason the merger even happened was ACGME went "Merge or lose access to our residencies.".

 

[deleted978973]

Except the ACGME has no control over any of these things and it can't press for anything. The AOA does. The only reason the merger even happened was ACGME went "Merge or lose access to our residencies.".

so then what's stopping them from saying "ditch cranial and make these COMLEX changes or lose access to our residencies"?

 

[DrStephenStrange]

so then what's stopping them from saying "ditch cranial and make these COMLEX changes or lose access to our residencies"?

What’s stopping them is the fact that the AOA currently owns 1/3 of the voting board at the ACGME.

 

[Kardio]

so then what's stopping them from saying "ditch cranial and make these COMLEX changes or lose access to our residencies"?

Those are only issues within the DO world. The power play was to give MD students access to AOA residencies.

 

[Goro]

In 15-20 years it might be different... Maybe ACGME's next power move after the merger will be to start seriously scrutinizing certain aspects of the DO curriculum like cranial, lack of rotation sites, COMLEX redundancy, etc. and press them hard to make changes. I can personally tell you that the OMM faculty at my school are scared as hell about the changes taking place based on some things they say in our lectures.

ACGME has nothing to do with pre-clinical medical education.

That's LCME's and COCA's job.

EDIT:
And not singling you out yhorm, but y'all please stop with the wishing for the White Knight to come and rescue the profession from itself. That won't from without, it will only happen from within, namely, by you guys.

Those who have the attitude of "***k the AOA, once I get my degree I'm having nothing to do with them" are only going to perpetuate the status quo.

 

[Deecee2DO]

ACGME has nothing to do with pre-clinical medical education.

That's LCME's and COCA's job.

EDIT:
And not singling you out yhorm, but y'all please stop with the wishing for the White Knight to come and rescue the profession from itself. That won't from without, it will only happen from within, namely, by you guys.

Those who have the attitude of "***k the AOA, once I get my degree I'm having nothing to do with them" are only going to perpetuate the status quo.

Wise words @Goro wise words

 

[Angus Avagadro]

God forbid they have to teach evidence-based medicine

You mean like giving stimulants to kids with ADHD? No diagnosis has been studied more in the medical literature and only until recently even a soft correlation with outcome with respect to graduation, anti social behavior, or drug addiction. Yet stimulants are still ordered with great frequency. Not picking on you, but just being a little contrarian with respect to evidence based medicine. Should be called Best evidence based medicine at the very least.

 

[deleted978973]

You mean like giving stimulants to kids with ADHD? No diagnosis has been studied more in the medical literature and only until recently even a soft correlation with outcome with respect to graduation, anti social behavior, or drug addiction. Yet stimulants are still ordered with great frequency. Not picking on you, but just being a little contrarian with respect to evidence based medicine. Should be called Best evidence based medicine at the very least.

1 stimulant, please

 

[Cornfed101]

You mean like giving stimulants to kids with ADHD? No diagnosis has been studied more in the medical literature and only until recently even a soft correlation with outcome with respect to graduation, anti social behavior, or drug addiction. Yet stimulants are still ordered with great frequency. Not picking on you, but just being a little contrarian with respect to evidence based medicine. Should be called Best evidence based medicine at the very least.

Agree with you there. I understand we do the best we can in medicine. I’m sure in 150 years people will think we are barbaric, just like we think medicine and surgery from the 1800s was barbaric.

 

[CoomassieBlue57]

Except the ACGME has no control over any of these things and it can't press for anything. The AOA does. The only reason the merger even happened was ACGME went "Merge or lose access to our residencies.".

Incorrect on multiple issues. AOA had no say in what is tested in osteopathic medical student education. AOA doesn't exist anymore because ACGME said let's create a new ACGME or else AOA trained residents won't be accepted for ACGME fellowships.

1 stimulant, please

I'd like 1 large Adderall please!

 

[DrRedstone]

1) Finish residency
2) Join AOA
3) Get a faculty job at a COM
4) Join NBOME
5) Don't change anything
6) Profit

Don't worry, Goro, I fixed it for you.

 

[deleted978973]

I'd like 1 large Adderall please!

If only it were that easy...

 

[Throwawaycall]

NBOME is a bunch of clowns with a five inch erection for OMM who probably barely passed comlex. We need to take them over once we finish residency and get rid of comlex. We can bicker all we want on here but until we overtake those mindless fools it’s all bark.

and send them nastigrams once you graduate. As long as it’s professional it can only be for the win.
Think of the dumbest, worst, and least popular professors at your school. That’s them

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Those are only issues within the DO world. The power play was to give MD students access to AOA residencies.

No it really wasn’t. MDs don’t really give a crap about the DO world, they really don’t. It was for the government money that wasn’t being used

Incorrect on multiple issues. AOA had no say in what is tested in osteopathic medical student education. AOA doesn't exist anymore because ACGME said let's create a new ACGME or else AOA trained residents won't be accepted for ACGME fellowships.

So much wrong here. Yes the AOA still exists, if anything they are more powerful than ever because they control 28% of the voting seats on the ACGME board. They are the parent organization of COCA as well. They also control the NBOME... So yes, the AOA has direct say in what is tested in the Osteopathic curriculum.

 

[CoomassieBlue57]

No it really wasn’t. MDs don’t really give a crap about the DO world, they really don’t. It was for the government money that wasn’t being used


So much wrong here. Yes the AOA still exists, if anything they are more powerful than ever because they control 28% of the voting seats on the ACGME board. They are the parent organization of COCA as well. They also control the NBOME... So yes, the AOA has direct say in what is tested in the Osteopathic curriculum.

The AOA does not exist anymore in residency accreditation.

 

[Kardio]

MDs don’t really give a crap about the DO world, they really don’t.

Yeah, that’s why I said the ACGME has no reason to ‘force them to ditch cranial and change the COMLEX’.

My point is that the ACGME (or any other MD entity) has no interest in interfering with cranial, the COMLEX, or any other ‘issue’ exclusive to the DO world.

It was for the government money that wasn’t being used

I don’t know anything about the financials behind the merger. What money wasn’t being used and where is it going now?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

The AOA does not exist anymore in residency accreditation.

They no longer function In that role, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. They are arguably more powerful than they have ever been unfortunately.

I don’t know anything about the financials behind the merger. What money wasn’t being used and where is it going now?

My understanding is that there was a lot of unused resident funding money buried in the AOA residencies. There were FM/IM/TRI programs in the AOA match that would have unfilled spots every single year. If there isn't a resident in that spot then that funding allocated to that spot isn't being used and was unable to be accessed by the ACGME. A secondary objective was to simply make the ACGME the sole entity responsible for GME in the country.