COMLEX and USMLE

[doinmybest5840]

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I know that MDs have to take the USMLE exams, and DOs have to take the COMLEX exams, but do DOs also have to take the USMLE exams? Thanks.

 

[Beau Geste]

I know that MDs have to take the USMLE exams, and DOs have to take the COMLEX exams, but do DOs also have to take the USMLE exams? Thanks.

No. But many do to apply to allo residencies.

 

[doinmybest5840]

Really? That's a bummer. Are osteo and allo residencies that different? Are there certain specialties that are only offered as allo vs. osteo?

 

[HrvatskiDoktor]

Also, to be able to practice overseas you will have to take the USMLE...or so I have been told.

 

[DrMom]

Also, to be able to practice overseas you will have to take the USMLE...or so I have been told.

that isn't true.

 

[Dr JPH]

Also, to be able to practice overseas you will have to take the USMLE...or so I have been told.

Wrong.

Why say something if youre not sure that its correct?

 

[Pansit]

Also, to be able to practice overseas you will have to take the USMLE...or so I have been told.

wrong

 

[SugarBuster]

I am curious about this too ... I'm applying to DO schools but I am in CA where allopathic residencies are more plentiful. Does this mean I will need USMLE and COMLEX? I'm a little worried because MD curriculums teach to the USMLE, right? Do DO students have to study for it on their own, in addition to the COMLEX?

Any info would be appreciated.

 

[Dr JPH]

I am curious about this too ... I'm applying to DO schools but I am in CA where allopathic residencies are more plentiful. Does this mean I will need USMLE and COMLEX? I'm a little worried because MD curriculums teach to the USMLE, right? Do DO students have to study for it on their own, in addition to the COMLEX?

Any info would be appreciated.

If MD and DO curricula are 95% similar then why would you have to work that much harder than an MD student to study for the USMLE?

What do you think the USMLE is?

For that matter, what do you think the DO curriculum is?

 

[SugarBuster]

I don't claim to be an expert in this area, but from what I understand the two tests have different formats. If MD curricula specifically prepare students for the USMLE I'd imagine that MD students have an advantage. That's all I'm saying.

I'm definitely not slamming DO schools. Just trying to gather information from people who know more about this than I do.

 

[Krazykritter]

Interestingly enough after taking both tests, I thought that the USMLE was a more difficult test but in different ways from the COMLEX. I won't go into detail in which ways on this forum since this is the pre-DO.

Anyway, I scored the exact same two-digit score on both exams. The two exams can't be too different to be able to do that w/ essentially the same prep for both exams.

 

[Dr JPH]

I don't claim to be an expert in this area, but from what I understand the two tests have different formats. If MD curricula specifically prepare students for the USMLE I'd imagine that MD students have an advantage. That's all I'm saying.

I'm definitely not slamming DO schools. Just trying to gather information from people who know more about this than I do.

Im not trying to give you a hard time, but I want you to understand this.

Both schools will provide you with the same core medical knowledge & this doesnt change regardless of where you go to school. So it would seem logical that an exam that specifically tests medical knowledge would be a fair exam to a student attending ANY medical school, even DO schools.

So I would say that a DO student would have no distinct advantage or no discernible disadvantage when it comes to taking the USMLE.

No why do DO student tend to do poorer on the USMLE than MDs?

People have all sorts of reasoning for this from fewer people taking the test, "the DO curriculum not preparing them" and saying that DO students who take the USMLE dont take it serious.

Bull.

If you are a competent DO student who studies hard and does well in school then you have no excuse for poor USMLE performance...and if you pay $600 for a test you are damn sure youre going to take it seriously.

What is the real reason?

I think DO students, on average, are poorer test takers. Look at our collective MCATs. 15-25% lower than MD students.

Now, we match into the same competitive specialties, we sit for the same professional licensing exams and we work in the same hospitals and practices...so SOMEWHERE along the line we learn the information and excel at becoming physicians and treating patients.

But ask a DO to fill in the little bubbles on a sheet of paper and you are taking a chance.

So does the DO curriculum prepare you to take the USMLE? Unequivocally YES.

Whether or not the recipient of that education can transfer their knowledge to paper is another story.

 

[Tired]

For the record, my allopathic school did not "teach to" the USMLE. Some of my classmates would argue they didn't teach much of anything at all.

 

[Dr JPH]

For the record, my allopathic school did not "teach to" the USMLE. Some of my classmates would argue they didn't teach much of anything at all.

Another important point altogether.

A medical school that teaches to the boards will graduate good standardized est takers, not necessarily good doctors.

 

[SugarBuster]

I don't think anyone would argue with you there -- test scores do not accurately reveal anyone's potential to be a good doctor. However, the road to practicing medicine seems to involve quite a lot of testing, so I don't think it's unreasonable to inquire about differences in the extent of USMLE preparation between DO and MD. I'm sure the level and style of preparation varies by MD school as well -- just trying to get a very general idea.

 

[spicedmanna]

I am curious about this too ... I'm applying to DO schools but I am in CA where allopathic residencies are more plentiful. Does this mean I will need USMLE and COMLEX? I'm a little worried because MD curriculums teach to the USMLE, right? Do DO students have to study for it on their own, in addition to the COMLEX?

Any info would be appreciated.

If you think you'll want an ACGME residency down the line, it makes sense to take the USMLE. There really isn't an easy way to convert COMLEX scores to USMLE scores. Some ACGME residencies will be fine with COMLEX scores and accept a good amount of DO's, but others won't be that familiar with either the COMLEX or DO's. Therefore, they'll prefer, or require you to take the USMLE. That's my understanding of it. Research the residency programs in which you intend to apply.

You need to study both boards on your own, no matter what school you attend. You might get some help and direction from the school, but as always, board preparation is fairly individual.

 

[Dr JPH]

I don't think anyone would argue with you there -- test scores do not accurately reveal anyone's potential to be a good doctor. However, the road to practicing medicine seems to involve quite a lot of testing, so I don't think it's unreasonable to inquire about differences in the extent of USMLE preparation between DO and MD. I'm sure the level and style of preparation varies by MD school as well -- just trying to get a very general idea.

Do you have trouble reading or just in the comprehension aspect?

 

[group_theory]

If you think you'll want an ACGME residency down the line, it makes sense to take the USMLE. There really isn't an easy way to convert COMLEX scores to USMLE scores. Some ACGME residencies will be fine with COMLEX scores and accept a good amount of DO's, but others won't be that familiar with either the COMLEX or DO's. Therefore, they'll prefer, or require you to take the USMLE. That's my understanding of it. Research the residency programs in which you intend to apply.

You need to study both boards on your own, no matter what school you attend. You might get some help and direction from the school, but as always, board preparation is fairly individual.

Good advice. Both MD and DO schools will basically teach you all the necessary info needed to take either COMLEX or USMLE (with the exception of MD students and the OMM component). However, the tests have different emphasis. To me, COMLEX has a stronger clinical focus, with questions dealing with drug of choice, disease identification, micro identification, etc. USMLE seemed to have a stronger basic science focus, with more biochem pathways, mechanism of action for drugs, and also a stronger social-ethics component.

Any good test taker will tell you that you target your studying towards high-yield material to get the most bang for your buck. Anatomy is low yield in USMLE, yet it is high yield on COMLEX. So to study for both tests, you need to study what both tests like to test. Hence why it is a mistake to just study towards one test and think one can simply jump and take the other test without any further preparation.


Analogy - think SAT and ACT. If you prepare and study for the SAT, can you just jump in and take the ACT and do well? A few do have that inate ability (or excellent educational training) to do well on both, but if you are geared towars taking both SAT and ACT, it would make sense to study for both tests, and not just study for one and hope for the best with the other.

 

[SugarBuster]

Good advice. Both MD and DO schools will basically teach you all the necessary info needed to take either COMLEX or USMLE (with the exception of MD students and the OMM component). However, the tests have different emphasis. To me, COMLEX has a stronger clinical focus, with questions dealing with drug of choice, disease identification, micro identification, etc. USMLE seemed to have a stronger basic science focus, with more biochem pathways, mechanism of action for drugs, and also a stronger social-ethics component.

Any good test taker will tell you that you target your studying towards high-yield material to get the most bang for your buck. Anatomy is low yield in USMLE, yet it is high yield on COMLEX. So to study for both tests, you need to study what both tests like to test. Hence why it is a mistake to just study towards one test and think one can simply jump and take the other test without any further preparation.


Analogy - think SAT and ACT. If you prepare and study for the SAT, can you just jump in and take the ACT and do well? A few do have that inate ability (or excellent educational training) to do well on both, but if you are geared towars taking both SAT and ACT, it would make sense to study for both tests, and not just study for one and hope for the best with the other.

This is helpful -- thank you.

 

[Dr JPH]

This is helpful -- thank you.

I guess you needed the remedial explanation. 👍

 

[SugarBuster]

I guess you needed the remedial explanation. 👍

What is the point of antagonizing others in these discussions?

If you are annoyed by someone's comment, you can feel free to ignore it, you know.

 

[Dr JPH]

What is the point of antagonizing others in these discussions?

If you are annoyed by someone's comment, you can feel free to ignore it, you know.

Good luck with applying to medical school. 🙂

 

[Tired]

If you are annoyed by someone's comment, you can feel free to ignore it, you know.

Why would he ignore it, when he can subject you to public ridicule instead?

 

[Dr JPH]

Why would he ignore it, when he can subject you to public ridicule instead?

Exactly.

Especially when I take the time to post something like that.

If youre not going to listen to what I say then dont post.

The OP is too new around here to know that what I say is law.

 

[SugarBuster]

Exactly.

Especially when I take the time to post something like that.

If youre not going to listen to what I say then dont post.

The OP is too new around here to know that what I say is law.

I sense a lot of insecurity here. Generally, people who are secure and happy don't waste their time putting others down, and continually claim to be the ultimate authority on all subjects.

Your response didn't really address my question. Other posts provided thorough and well-thought-out answers. I don't think these threads belong exclusively to you, and I don't think bullying and "publicly ridiculing" other people is conducive to any sort of meaningful discussion.

To everyone else, I'm sorry that this thread has strayed far from its original purpose.

 

[Dr JPH]

I sense a lot of insecurity here.

Ahh yes.

The premed calling the Surgical intern insecure. Surgeons are some of the LEAST insecure people in the world. We put people down because we can, not because it makes us feel better about ourselves.

You have a lot to learn.

Nice try at a diagnosis doc.

😆

 

[146233]

The premed calling the Surgical intern insecure. Surgeons are some of the LEAST insecure people in the world. We put people down because we can, not because it makes us feel better about ourselves.

Seriously, you don't need to have the last word on everything. Surgical interns should have better things to do than sit around and antagonize premeds.

 

[Dr JPH]

Seriously, you don't need to have the last word on everything. Surgical interns should have better things to do than sit around and antagonize premeds.

Not when youre sitting in the call room watching the Eagles game. 😉

Now run along and study.

 

[146233]

Now run along and study.

A very limited number of other SDN'ers who are as misanthropic as you may find your holier-than-thou persona entertaining. I, however, do not. Please do not attempt to belittle me again.

 

[Dr JPH]

A very limited number of other SDN'ers who are as misanthropic as you may find your holier-than-thou persona entertaining. I, however, do not. Please do not attempt to belittle me again.

emmmmmm cat

 

[146233]

emmmmmm cat

What?

 

[Dr JPH]

What?

Just trying to put in your head what you should be worrying about...instead of worrying about me. 🙂

Sound it out. Let me know if you need help. 👍

 

[MossPoh]

Not when youre sitting in the call room watching the Eagles game. 😉

Now run along and study.

Doesn't seem to be much of an Eagles game right now. 😉

 

[Krazykritter]

Just trying to put in your head what you should be worrying about...instead of worrying about me. 🙂

Sound it out. Let me know if you need help. 👍

LMAO.

JP wins even though this thread has degenerated into the most pointless piece of garbage on SDN (nevermind...a 15 yo HS student is talking crap to surgeons & residents in the Surgery forums).

 

[Dr JPH]

Doesn't seem to be much of an Eagles game right now. 😉

No kidding.

I dont know how people can like these bums. Personally I love to hate the eagles. Makes living in this city interesting. 😀

 

[146233]

Just trying to put in your head what you should be worrying about...instead of worrying about me. 🙂

My MCAT was fine, thank you for your concern.

Sound it out. Let me know if you need help. 👍

I politely asked you to keep your superiority complex at bay and you just couldn't do it, could you? Or worse, perhaps you chose not to. Is it because you enjoy the lip service you get from the pre-meds who seem to adore you so much because you're going to be a surgeon?

 

[Dr JPH]

LMAO.

JP wins even though this thread has degenerated into the most pointless piece of garbage on SDN (nevermind...a 15 yo HS student is talking crap to surgeons & residents in the Surgery forums).

I won!? YES!!!

Yeah...that 15yo kid is funny stuff.

 

[Dr JPH]

My MCAT was fine, thank you for your concern.

Rock on. 👍

I politely asked you to keep your superiority complex at bay and you just couldn't do it, could you? Or worse, perhaps you chose not to. Is it because you enjoy the lip service you get from the pre-meds who seem to adore you so much because you're going to be a surgeon?

I never realized I was adored.

This changes everything...

 

[146233]

I never realized I was adored.

This changes everything...

Oh no, what have I done? 😀

 

[ShyRem]

This thread has degenerated enough. Closing.