Comlex PE thread

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cheruka

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Hi,
I did not see a thread for this so, thought I would start one. I have it in a few days. I know most of you are done taking it so, hopefully there are still a bunch of us still waiting to take it.

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I'm sure. The hotel really caters to PE folks. The second I walked in they asked "here for the NBOME huh?" I found them to be very accommodating. Balling breakfasts too! Be sure to fill up the to-go box and stock the fridge in your room as well! Hehe!
 
I've heard there's a rail track and you hear it rumble and blows its horn next to the hotel and couldn't sleep. Any others had this experience?
Didn't bother me at all. I slept like a baby. Yeah, the train is there, but whatever. If you're a super (Super) light sleeper it may get to you.
 
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Thank you for the response. Good luck with your results!!
Do they have taxis available at the hotel or the hotel has a shuttle that can drop off at the NBOME site. I wouldn't have a car.
 
Thank you for the response. Good luck with your results!!
Do they have taxis available at the hotel or the hotel has a shuttle that can drop off at the NBOME site. I wouldn't have a car.
If you're at the Marroitt you can walk. I'm sure you can grab a cab though.
 
question about how focused our physical exams should be?

I'm thinking of doing heart and lungs on all, then add abdomen or ent or neuro/msk if need be depending on the scenario. is that enough?
 
How detailed does the ROS have to be? Would pertinent systems be good enough or do we need to do the whole head to toe systems?
 
question about how focused our physical exams should be?

I'm thinking of doing heart and lungs on all, then add abdomen or ent or neuro/msk if need be depending on the scenario. is that enough?

That's pretty much what I did, so I hope it is enough to pass lol.
 
How detailed does the ROS have to be? Would pertinent systems be good enough or do we need to do the whole head to toe systems?

Just pertinent stuff (i.e. positive and negatives relative to your differential), otherwise you will run out of time, unless you spend just a few mins with pts and type really fast.
 
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Just pertinent stuff (i.e. positive and negatives relative to your differential), otherwise you will run out of time, unless you spend just a few mins with pts and type really fast.

I feel like in the step 2 cs book they do a ton of systems for the physical exam. I don't think its possible in the time allotted in real life. I'd rather finish on time than miss 1 or 2 systems on the physical exam--big deal
 
Found out last week I passed, which of course is awesome, especially considering that I convinced myself that I failed (see my post above someplace). And I'm NOT one of those people who usually leave a test feeling they failed (you know who you are folks). So, odds are, at some point during that 8-10 week wait, you will think you failed. When that happens, don't fret... don't spend time looking up on SDN (like I did) and waste time. Not worth it. Anyways, here's my experience/advice/whatever:

THE DAY IS CRAZY. It flies by. Rapid fire. A whirlwind. You will finish and be like "WTF just happened?" And when you're in that room, time does seem to morph and move at a rate you wished it would during day you spent at OB clinic (not offense to you future OB-GYNers, and God Bless). What does that mean? Everything you do needs to be focused. Keep your exam and your questions pertinent. Don't approach it like your just trying to hit checkpoints and rack points. Not only will you likely come off as disingenuous but you'll bleed precious minutes. History taking needs to be focused on the situation at hand and so does the physical, just like you would on your rotations.

Exam: as many have said, heart (don't forget carotids) and lungs on everyone! Everyone! Even the depressed lady who is worried that her husband is cheating on her and has an ulcer on his thang. As far as the gown goes, I always asked if it was ok to lower their gown (going in sideways seems to cumbersome and just plain awkward especially when they wear it tight) then I said something like "can I help you untie that?" Lower the gown only as far as you need. Ask the patient to move her breast if need be for MV auscultation. Give feedback when things sound ok for humanistic points (and you should do that in real life anyway). As far as lungs go, I only listened midaxillary on 2 patients and they were respiratory-related issues. They also had more of a focused lung exam with testing egophony and tactile fremitus. Also tie them back up as well. Just be nice!

KEEP THE EXAM FOCUSED AND PERTINENT! And look out for real findings. I heard murmurs, wheezes, saw clubbing, splinter hemorrhages, etc. Find them, tell the patient, and document. I'm thinking that's extra juice for your final tally.

If there's any heart issues/suspicion according to presentation---> full cardio exam, head to toe. So pulses b/l, capillary refill, check for aortic aneurysms, splinter hemorrhages (which I found on a pt), JVD, and if HTN then bust out the ophthalmoscope (IF you have time)! I DID NOT RECHECK ONE BP THE ENTIRE EXAM.

Head aches, concussions, dizziness, numbness, tingles, weakness, visual changes ---> neuro exam, especially EOMs, CNs, DTRs, and GAIT (don't forget to stand them, Romberg, and walk them). Bust out the scope if you have time for those.

Breathing issues---> focused lungs w T.F. and don't forget about extremities looking for clubbing (which I did find on a patient). Don't forget HEENT on these ones. But out the otoscope. Look up their nose. Let them give the good ol' aaaaahhhh! Feel glands. I noticed myself almost forgetting that in the haste of the moment.

MSK injury--> ROM active and passive, DTRs (i love the hammer), strength

Anything GI related--> full abdominal exam (listen, percuss, palpate shallow and deep) but again focused. m not looking for Murphy's on the Celiac patient but I think I would do one on everyone if I was there anyway. Odds are if you follow this order and hit all quadrants, the patient will feed you the info you need (sometimes obviously so) to lead you towards your diagnosis and plan. Don't forget to listen and palpate aorta and renal arteries while there (depending on case).

Physical patients: you may get one. Head to toe. Heart, lungs, HEENT, abdomen (don't forget to check for abdominal hernia), and age-specific counseling. Ask questions about how school is going, or what their hobbies are or whatever, are you sexually active (if teenager). Some of this may sound like smalltalk (which doesn't hurt) but it actually opened a few doors leading to questions that the patient had. So don't be shy.

OMM patients: some will be purely MSK issues with OMM. Some will straight up ask for it, others will hint, maybe one or two will not. If you think they could benefit, go for it. Ask them if they ever heard of OMM, give a quick spiel about the benefits of osteopathic medicine (browny points for the A.T.S. faithful who will be grading you) and dive in. Keep it simple. Know a technique for every body region. I prefer Still technique bc it's quick. Used myofascial a couple of times as well. ME is my favorite, but only do so if you have the time. That said, I had 3 patients I used ME on. ALWAYS REASSESS. As far as documentation goes, I kept it short and sweet. E.g. TART changes T5-T9 b/l. I didn't get all fancy in terms of rotations and side bending. Not once did I document flexion/extension. ROM should be documented though, if pertinent.

Which brings me to documentation: Pertinent positive AND negatives. There isn't time for anything else. You don't need to run through the entire ROS. Heart and lungs always. But from there it should focused according to the case at hand and pertienent. Don't go listing every negative you didn't find in the H&P. Only pertinent stuff!!! My advice is to run through it once without stopping. That is, if you find yourself blanking out on a section, move to the next part and come back to fill in the blanks. Don't rush but don't move slow either. When the brain farts, you move along. I found myself going back through my note for most of them. I probably only had one note where I felt like there was nothing else I could do. Most of them I would finish the bare bones and then go back and find what I missed (and I often found something). A few I was frantically trying to beat the buzzer. I did finish every note, that is, I never had a section blank and always had minimum requirement for A&P. I'm not a fan of going in and filling those in first, because that is not what I have done for the last year on rotations. That brings me to the next topic... preparation.

The best way to prepare for this exam is on your rotations during your everyday life as a medical student. Nail down the exam and the documentation while on your rotations. I really feel that this is why I passed. I did not practice with other students or family members beforehand. Not once. Always seemed to contrived to me plus I was probably too lazy. If you like practicing with friends, go for it. But the best bang for your buck (and you're paying A LOT of bucks) is to work on your skills day in and day out. When you write notes on the floors, see how quick you can hammer them out. (I feel for you guys writing paper notes on certain rotations because I know how it feels to fly through a note, realize you missed something, and DOH... no space!).

Kaufmann's book was go to for practice. I went through it the week before... most of it the last few days leading up to the test. I skipped all the b.s. at the beginning (since our schools gave us most of this info) and jumped right to the cases. I would run through a case in my head, talking out loud (my wife already knows I'm crazy), and think about what type of exam I would do. After that, I would jump to the NBOME practice SOAP https://www.nbome.org/eSoap-Practice.asp and try to pump out the note in time. Keep practicing notes on there. It will make a HUGE difference on game day. Like I said, I was pretty much hustling to the deadline on everyone and this was with the practice. If you don't practice writing notes on that site, odds are you're making things harder for yourself.

All in all, it was a stressful day. I honestly hated it and I have told multiple people that it was hands-down my least favorite (and possibly worst) part of medical school so far. I'd take a crazy day in the hospital over this anytime. Real patients are so much cooler than the SPs. Oh that reminds me: Expect patients to act douchey. More than a few gave me blank stares, acted annoyed, seemed disinterested, pissed, unsatisfied, etc. It's all a part of the act. Designed to throw you off your game. Just keep doing your thing. Don't take it personally. I also NEVER washed my hands before shaking hands and ONLY did so before the physical exam. Worked for me. Kauffman books says otherwise, but you're wasting time if you're jumping back and forth washing (even though it's just the alcohol).

Well, that's all I have. I'm sure I'm missing something there. Feel free to ask any questions. Just remember, odds are you're going to pass this thing. And chances are you will think you failed! Hahaha! Good luck folks. You got this!
 
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^ I would like to say that this post is spot on for the exam. I don't know if I passed yet or not, but everything Dharma mentioned is on the money. The day is super fast paced and at the end you have no idea what just happened. If you are wondering how to prepare reference Dharma's post, seriously.
 
If we include a medication in the plan, are we docked points for not knowing dosages? and in contrast, are we granted brownie points for knowing dosages?
 
Took this thing today. Here's a few pieces of advice:

Read the USMLE step 2 CS challenge question section. It goes through a difficult question that a patient may ask during the exam, and an example of how to answer it. This is not in the COMLEX PE book, and is definitely worth reading.

Come up with a mnemonic for history taking, and stick to it. COMLEX PE book has a pretty good one (codierssmashfm with Fedtacos and mothrr). Those are good, I made slight adjustments to them, and it worked great.

Read the COMLEX PE 50 cases. There were a good amount of cases that are high yield.
 
Failed it

Good bye any competitive residency :( And some how it was the Data-Collection portion that did it to me...I'm doomed. I never had a single, solitary problem in any clinical exam review, video-taped history and physical, or otherwise on that part of my exam (just note organization which I passed). God help me.
Failed as well. Utter disbelief. Passed my schools rigorous SP process for nearly 30 encounters without a single fail. Honored more rotations than not. Practiced for this test. I just can't believe it. I fell so awful. I was so confident I passed, that I didn't even bother looking up the release date. Then, BAM. Straight to the gut on my first 10 minutes of the first day of an audition rotation. I have no idea what to do. I have read online that as long as you pass it the next time, its not a huge deal, and "many PDs know this test is BS" as my Dean told me over the phone today. But still, it hurts badly. Above average Comlex I and IICK. Lost.....Have no idea if I should bring this up or not to auditions. Just stunned. This is really an awful feeling. Only test I have ever failed in Medical school.
 
Failed as well. Utter disbelief. Passed my schools rigorous SP process for nearly 30 encounters without a single fail. Honored more rotations than not. Practiced for this test. I just can't believe it. I fell so awful. I was so confident I passed, that I didn't even bother looking up the release date. Then, BAM. Straight to the gut on my first 10 minutes of the first day of an audition rotation. I have no idea what to do. I have read online that as long as you pass it the next time, its not a huge deal, and "many PDs know this test is BS" as my Dean told me over the phone today. But still, it hurts badly. Above average Comlex I and IICK. Lost.....Have no idea if I should bring this up or not to auditions. Just stunned. This is really an awful feeling. Only test I have ever failed in Medical school.

Osteoquack, I feel like you explained exactly what I am going through. I just found out I failed too. I've never failed anything in med school, did excellent on level I and II, and always passed our school's SP exams. I thought I did well on the PE too and studied for a few weeks leading up to it. Just as you said, "utter disbelief." To make things worse I've been doing auditions for the last three months for a spot in a competitive specialty and feel like my chance of matching into a program was just snatched away from me. I'm so sad.
 
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Osteoquack, I feel like you explained exactly what I am going through. I just found out I failed too. I've never failed anything in med school, did excellent on level I and II, and always passed our school's SP exams. I thought I did well on the PE too and studied for a few weeks leading up to it. Just as you said, "utter disbelief." To make things worse I've been doing auditions for the last three months for a spot in a competitive specialty and feel like my chance of matching into a program was just snatched away from me. I'm so sad.

I am in the same boat, I honestly can't figure out what I did wrong. It was biomedical and soap note for me. I watched the Kaufman Videos and went through the book. Never failed an SP, board exam, anything in med school.

It just doesn't make sense. I don't like to make excuses either. Now going to have to retake, pay the fee, and hotel stay. Take an extra day out to go up there and probably now take a course because of the shattered confidence.
 
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I found out that I passed PE and so I wanted to share what I did to pass that exam. English isn't my first language and I have an accent. As for a side note, I did not pass the pre-PE OSCE that I had to do in my school. It was the only course I had to remediate in med school and I was not happy with the way it was graded. I can go on and rant about it but I won't.. What really matters is that I passed the actual PE and I didn't change the way I work with the pts since that OSCE.

1. I practiced typing a few SOAP notes per day using a sample SOAP note template from NBOME website. I used my imagination in terms of cc, vitals, etc when practicing my SOAP note writing.
2. I used the same SOAP format for all my cases.. (depending on your typing ability, you can include more or less information while scoring nearly perfect on all SOAP components. For example, my objective section always includes General, Skin, Heart, Lungs, Abdomen and whatever else applicable to the case... General and Skin are free points becuse you don't really have to spend any time on gathering data. Missing an entire section could hurt you a lot though.. So, if you think you're running out of time, fill in something under each section of the SOAP.
3. I practiced patient interviewing skills in the ED mostly (again using the same set of questions).

Based on my experience, the standardized patients are not trying to fail you. If anything, they are doing everything they can to help you pass. So, make sure you listen to them. When you ask questions to your patients, make sure they give answers to all of your questions. For example, you ask "do you have n,v,f,c" and the pt replies, "no i don't have chills" - then you have to ask what about "n,v and f". It sounds simple but you don't want to miss your dx!

Always address your patient's concern even if that sounds ridiculous to you.

Always end the patient interaction when the time is up. I saw some students during the exam that they did not come out when the time was up.. The examiners were not happy at all..

Don't record anything that you didn't ask or perform. I forgot to do a few things during the exam and I just recorded that in my note.

Also on my ddx, I always have somatic dysfunction as one of my dx (No, I didn't do OMM on every patient.)

-----
So, after the PE, you will think about all the terrible things that you think you did... I have a couple to share :)

1. I used my stethoscope to examine knee reflexes. Then I saw that they provided us with a reflex hammer.
2. My OMM was all stretching. No fancy OMM technique was used. No S/CS, Direct/Indirect, etc.
3. I had no idea about one thing the SP said and I admitted that I did not know.
---
well hope this helps.
 
Just found out I failed. So discouraged, I mean I didn't think I did well...but good enough to pass. It was the OMM and SOAP note section that did me in according to the scoring sheet. I think you are supposed to have 3 omm cases and I only had 2. And they make it very obvious if it's an OMM case and I actively looked for the OMM the cases. So either I completely screwed and simply missed an OMM case or the SP did a poor job.

For anyone who may have failed, did you try to rescore/score conformation? Looks like they will only add up the scores again to see if you failed, but they will not check the videos again to see if there was any errors.
 
Hi all,

Just found out that I passed the PE yesterday. I was worried that I failed given my lackluster preparation. However, I worked really hard on my subIs and was hoping that would be "enough" preparation. I used the video series and reviewed about 40-50% of them. I practiced a few soap notes. And memorized a template for my soap notes.

Now, for some advice: ,be kind and considerate and treat the SPs like real patients. We are tired and so are they! Be humorous, be personable. You need time to take time to speak with the patient as you go through your exam and assessment. "Oh, your chest pain doesn't radiate to your arm and jaw, there's no numbness and tingling, that's good news and makes it less likely to be serious especially given your age. But we can do a few tests to rule out the serious causes"

For a lot of patient encounters I always ended with a disclaimer: "IF your pain worsens please do call our office, I'd be happy to see you or call 9-11 and go to your local emergency room"

I think it's acceptable to be wrong for a couple of cases - I left the test thinking I could have killed my first patient. It was chest pain - but I was confused on how to approach it. I thought we could do some testing and then see whether ED admission was necessary to r/o ACS. In hindsight, probably better to be overly cautious vs cavalier.

OMM: Make sure you have a couple of techniques memorized for each area. I did a horrible job on the OMM and one of the SPs said "Oh, that's not doing anything" I essentially did the same techniques for each patient since they all had neck complaints. I was seriously worried I'd fail b/c of OMM. Also, it sounds like 3 is the magical number. Make sure you do OMM on minimum 3 patients but definitely don't do it on too many. And recheck. It was very obvious when it was expected. Easy points for your OMM grade - add OSE elements to your exam and remember to document findings: "Somatic dysfunction mid-thoracics"

-Make sure you have a memorized template for soap notes. That way, you won't forget something important! All of my SOAP notes were more or less complete, some were barebones and generic, others a little more complete. I came up with at least 3 ddx diagnoses.

-Make sure you do Heart and Lungs and auscultate on skin. I ran out of time on lungs and didn't do it all, all the time. I tried to do bruits and feel for pulses as part of CV exam. I was awkward with draping and my patients were round and packed in their gowns. ;)

-Expected difficult patients and difficult questions. "Doctor, am I going to die?" "Doctor, is this cancer?" or weird patients that are hiding something.

Good luck, guys.
 
Yo. I'm supposed to take Level 2 PE on May 10, a few days after my surgery rotation shelf :| But I have some questions that I would reeeally appreciate answers on!

1. How long would you say is needed to prepare for this? Is 9 days enough?
I would prefer to take it much earlier, but I don't have Internal Medicine until Jan-Feb, which leads me to my next question:

2. Would it be a bad idea to take this before Internal Medicine? I heard that it's the best at prepping you for this exam.

3. Not about PE but for USMLE and COMLEX 2 written... how long is adequate to prep for these?

Thanks!
 
I didn't examine most of my patients in a head to fashion. Some I kind of did out order... like I did heart and lungs first . Is this enough to make me fail?
 
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