COMLEX Scores for Allergy/Immuno and Rheum

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AlteredScale said:
Yes for a number of reasons:
- in house fellowship at own program increases chances being on the "home team"
- more opportunities for research normally at university IM programs, better infrastructure usually with having in house staff to run the stats for you

Now, there are still many many people matching fellowship from community programs because:
- many community programs have their own in house fellowship, but usually not a large array as what's found at a university program
- based on ACGME requirements, every residency program must have ongoing scholarly activity, so research opps are going to be there in some manner

The take home so far for this post is that as a DO, you are fighting an uphill battle in entering strong, academic, university programs for IM. This intrinsically will make entering fellowship harder IF you don't get into a program (community or university) that will support your endeavors and/or has a track record of sending people into fellowship. You can make your life easier entering academic IM by trying to accomplish the following:
-getting strong grades preclinical and reaching for SSP (the DO's version of AOA)
-scoring well on BOTH USMLE and COMLEX, skies the limit.
-doing well in your clerkships and honoring your shelves
-getting strong letters from attending with faculty appointments
-demonstrating interest in scholarly activity with hopefully some sort of output (at minimum, presenting your work at the schools conference)

Obviously, not everyone can achieve all these and that's absolutely fine. Just being unique can really help you stand out, do the extra curricular stuff you find interesting. if you like volunteering do it. if you like music or the arts do something with it.
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Do you know what the cutoff is for SSP? Or every schools different? Is it based on quintiles or quartiles or something?
 
hungrydoc710 said:
Does univ IM increase the fellowship chances?
Is that the positive factor vs comm IM?
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Generally you should go University IM unless you interview at a community program with the fellowship you want and it takes preference for your own graduates.

I'm at a community IM program, but we have a couple fellowships including ones that as DOs you will struggle to get that we fill almost exclusively with our graduates. I can say that as a result we're in a good place, better than probably even some MDs in university programs.

Alternatively I'm aiming for a program that's not offered here and I don't have too many worries that I'll match into it either.
 
Some perks of doing IM in an university ACGME program include:

1) Protected lecture/didactic almost everyday
2) Done at 5 PM at the latest, with at least either a Sunday or a Saturday off min if you are on the ward
3) If you have to show up for work on either a Saturday or a Sunday on the ward, you’re done by 1 PM at the latest
4) When you’re on an elective like Neurology or others, you will always have your weekend to yourself. Will be done by 5 PM at the latest on these services as well
5) MKSAP and all board prep Qbanks are free and paid for by the program
6) You will get a GI/Cards/HemeOnc fellowship if you graduate from here

This is in stark contrast to my home former AOA IM program in which all residents work until 8-10 PM Mon-Sat. I’m all about that lifestyle in residency.

You will need min 240 Step 1 to do an IM away rotation at this place. Hint, it’s a West Coast program.

The AOA sabotage doesn’t stop at the medical school level. While you’re busting your a$$ staffing your 10-11th consult for the day at 9PM, your ACGME IM colleague finishes their 5th or 6th consult for the day at 4pm, and spends the extra time either chilling with the family, or budding up their research CV for that clinical trial with biotechs gig or for that Cards or GI fellowship.

Try to go at least uni IM kids.
 
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Epilepsy365 said:
Some perks of doing IM in an university ACGME program include:

1) Protected lecture/didactic almost everyday
2) Done at 5 PM at the latest, with at least either a Sunday or a Saturday off min if you are on the ward
3) If you have to show up for work on either a Saturday or a Sunday on the ward, you’re done by 1 PM at the latest
4) When you’re on an elective like Neurology or others, you will always have your weekend to yourself. Will be done by 5 PM at the latest on these services as well
5) MKSAP and all board prep Qbanks are free and paid for by the program
6) You will get a GI/Cards/HemeOnc fellowship if you graduate from here

This is in stark contrast to my home former AOA IM program in which all residents work until 8-10 PM Mon-Sat. I’m all about that lifestyle in residency.

You will need min 240 Step 1 to do an IM away rotation at this place. Hint, it’s a West Coast program.

The AOA sabotage doesn’t stop at the medical school level. While you’re busting your a$$ staffing your 10-11th consult for the day at 9PM, your ACGME IM colleague finishes their 5th or 6th consult for the day, and spends the extra time either chilling with the family, or budding up their research CV for that clinical trial with biotechs gig or for that Cards or GI fellowship.

Try to go at least uni IM kids.
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I am currently at an AOA location that is the same as the ACGME description and the opposite of the AOA. Generalizations are cool
 
Epilepsy365 said:
Some perks of doing IM in an university ACGME program include:

1) Protected lecture/didactic almost everyday
2) Done at 5 PM at the latest, with at least either a Sunday or a Saturday off min if you are on the ward
3) If you have to show up for work on either a Saturday or a Sunday on the ward, you’re done by 1 PM at the latest
4) When you’re on an elective like Neurology or others, you will always have your weekend to yourself. Will be done by 5 PM at the latest on these services as well
5) MKSAP and all board prep Qbanks are free and paid for by the program
6) You will get a GI/Cards/HemeOnc fellowship if you graduate from here

This is in stark contrast to my home former AOA IM program in which all residents work until 8-10 PM Mon-Sat. I’m all about that lifestyle in residency.

You will need min 240 Step 1 to do an IM away rotation at this place. Hint, it’s a West Coast program.
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I think it's a stretch to say that all university programs provide this or that most community do not. You've basically described my program. Everyone matched into fellowship in their desired field for the last 5 years. I only work 3 weekend days during wards, 1 of them is ofc a 24hour call however. Non-'wards' are always M-F. MKSAP is covered by a nice 2k educational stipend per year. Etc.

I think the community v.s university debate is probably more complicated than we on SDN really want to acknowledge.
 
Dr.Bruh said:
Even more wild is this person wanted Med/Peds but dropped on their match list to IM (dual applied) but after intern year was able to snag a spot at Georgetown without having to reapply though the match and just integrated in as a Pgy2.
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Georgetown? ill take it. Sounds like she really lucked out. Did she have any connections/ties? Her situation def sounds like an exception lol
 
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Deecee2DO said:
Georgetown? ill take it. Sounds like she really lucked out. Did she have any connections/ties? Her situation def sounds like an exception lol
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Idk if she had any connections but she came into med school with a PhD. Very bright person. Wants to physician scientist I believe in a research filed that I am interested in as well.
 
AlteredScale said:
Idk if she had any connections but she came into med school with a PhD. Very bright person. Wants to physician scientist I believe in a research filed that I am interested in as well.
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Her PhD was in English or Philosophy though if i remember correctly. Also, no connections to Georgetown but said that she was passionate about still going MedPeds and her program worked with her to through their connections to get her an interview.
 
Isn’t allergy and immuno like not competitive at all.
 
Chibucks15 said:
See that’s your mindset. There’s BS in every specialty, some people tolerate different things. Personally I’ve also never seen this “chill the rest of the day by 3-4 PM” either with most subspecialties I’ve encountered but sure whatever floats your boat
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I agree but primary care (FM/IM) has arguably more BS than the other specialties. But I will take that BS and the lifestyle over most other specialties.
 
scoopdaboop said:
Isn’t allergy and immuno like not competitive at all.
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It's a fellow after IM, so doubtful that it's not competitive at all.
Endocrine I'd assume is probably one of the easier fellowships to obtain, since they net the least.
 
hungrydoc710 said:
It's a fellow after IM, so doubtful that it's not competitive at all.
Endocrine I'd assume is probably one of the easier fellowships to obtain, since they net the least.
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Just because fellow after IM doesnt mean its competitive. in fact most arent all that competitive minus GI, Cards and arguably heme/onc
 
Splenda88 said:
I agree but primary care (FM/IM) has arguably more BS than the other specialties. But I will take that BS and the lifestyle over most other specialties.
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Tbh while I currently still think i'll subspecialize. I won't deny that I think that primary care has appeals to me. It has variety and there's a pretty manageable pace.

If you want a calm life and you enjoy working with people with a variety of problems and can deal with human nature it's a good gig.
 
Deecee2DO said:
Just because fellow after IM doesnt mean its competitive. in fact most arent all that competitive minus GI, Cards and arguably heme/onc
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A/I and Rheum are getting more competitive these days... They are not GI/Card/PumCrit/HemeOnc, but they aren't as easy to get as ID/Endo


Everyone is after that 300k+/yr + lifestyle (9-5pm M-Thurs outpatient only and no calls).
 
Drrrrrr. Celty said:
Yes. But %s don't really paint the whole picture. The average cardio applicant is much mor competitive than the average rheum applicant.
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Based on what? They don’t publish average step/ pubs/ etc in order to determine such a stance, right?
 
Splenda88 said:
A/I and Rheum are getting more competitive these days... They are not GI/Card/PumCrit/HemeOnc, but they aren't as easy to get as ID/Endo


Everyone is after that 300k+/yr + lifestyle (9-5pm M-Thurs outpatient only and no calls).
Click to expand...

Pretty much. That being said the amount of people in IM programs who utterly despise clinic and outpatient means that those very competitive specialties will always be more competitive than those that predominately outpatient at least in the short term.
 
Splenda88 said:
A/I and Rheum are getting more competitive these days... They are not GI/Card/PumCrit/HemeOnc, but they aren't as easy to get as ID/Endo


Everyone is after that 300k+/yr + lifestyle (9-5pm M-Thurs outpatient only and no calls).
Click to expand...

We are not in 2010 anymore. Every specialty including FM/gen IM can easily break the 300K working Mon-fri with no weekend calls banker hrs in FM or 7 day on 7 day off in gen IM.
 
Splenda88 said:
A/I and Rheum are getting more competitive these days... They are not GI/Card/PumCrit/HemeOnc, but they aren't as easy to get as ID/Endo


Everyone is after that 300k+/yr + lifestyle (9-5pm M-Thurs outpatient only and no calls).
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AI and rheum are 300+? I was getting the impression on the Rheum forums it was like 250-260
 
Splenda88 said:
Medscape put them ~275k/yr
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Except that high earners don’t answer those surveys. Why would you do that if you’re on the upper end of the spectrum?

I won’t throw out numbers out there. But you will be pleasantly surprised to know some of the #s out there among diff specialties especially when you have more access to salary chat in residency and fellowship.
 
Epilepsy365 said:
Except that high earners don’t answer those surveys. Why would you do that if you’re on the upper end of the spectrum?

I won’t throw out numbers out there. But you will be pleasantly surprised to know some of the #s out there among diff specialties especially when you have more access to salary chat in residency and fellowship.
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Trust me I know... Physicians like to hide their salary.
 
Deecee2DO said:
I mean honestly I thought Rheum would be over 300 anyways just since they do some procedures. AI also i would think make 300+. ID and Endo def under 300 though
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Yeah I do not have enough sample size to really say much for Rheum/Endo. For ID? For sure. They may even take a paycut vs the general IM hospitalist.
 
Dreamstoo said:
Yeah I do not have enough sample size to really say much for Rheum/Endo. For ID? For sure. They may even take a paycut vs the general IM hospitalist.
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ID has no procedures=less money. Sucks because I've always liked ID but its just not the best investment with the time in training and the pay. Yea i know its not all about the money lol but if I am in school for 9 years after undergrad I want to be compensated for it
 
Deecee2DO said:
ID has no procedures=less money. Sucks because I've always liked ID but its just not the best investment with the time in training and the pay. Yea i know its not all about the money lol but if I am in school for 9 years after undergrad I want to be compensated for it
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I was interested in ID as well, but seeing ID physicians doing hospital medicine has made me reconsider...


It's not that hard to make 300k+ as a hospitalist in 2 of the 3 states I would like to practice.
 
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Splenda88 said:
I was interested to ID as well, but seeing ID physicians doing hospital medicine has made me reconsider...


It's not that hard to make 300k+ as a hospitalist in 2 of the 3 states I would like to practice.
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So in this case youre a hospitalist but do you still get called for ID cases? as in basically ur still doing ID but paid more and youre on hospitalist schedule so technically youre both? If so that sounds sweet
 
Deecee2DO said:
So in this case youre a hospitalist but do you still get called for ID cases? as in basically ur still doing ID but paid more and youre on hospitalist schedule so technically youre both? If so that sounds sweet
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I don't think I want to go thru training for another 2 years dealing with residency politics and most importantly the loss of 500k for that.
 
What does medscape put psychiatry salary-wise in the mid-west ???
 
Most fellowships don't really net you that much financial gain tbh. They net you a more potentially intellectually interesting population and or better practice quality ex seeing less pts for more money.
 
Drrrrrr. Celty said:
Most fellowships don't really net you that much financial gain tbh. They net you a more potentially intellectually interesting population and or better practice quality ex seeing less pts for more money.
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True. except cards and GI=Pretty significat salary boost. In terms of subspecialty salary id say
Cards/GI
PCC
Hemeonc
AI/Rheum
Endo/ID/Nephro
 
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Cards/GI make bank because they are all about volume AND procedures. In the outpatient setting, it is easy to run through 30-40 patients in a given 9-5:00 setting. Good luck doing that in primary care. NOT to mention the procedures they do AND the call they take.

Those are the kings of the hospital system and admins will bend over backwards to make them happy because they bring that $$$ to the hospital.

In my area, they honestly deserve the $600-800,000 starting pay they make on a regular cause they are HUSTLING for it.

The primary care docs are raking in less than half which is not bad at all and are able to take weekends off.

But... ALSO... Physicians suck with money.

There's a thing called taxes.

And the time put in for making another 200-300K for the hours and years investment you put in just isn't worth it to some when Uncle Sam is taking 40-50% of each dollar after a certain point.

But shoot... they gotta pay for their 7,000 square foot homes and Maserati's somehow right?
 
Throwawaycall said:
I would too with most of the public being jealous and uneducated
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Not really... a lot of the general public knows doctors usually pull 250K+. Tech on the other hand? I'm related to a few who are way richer than doctors I know. No clue how much they make.
 
DennisReynolds said:
Cards/GI make bank because they are all about volume AND procedures. In the outpatient setting, it is easy to run through 30-40 patients in a given 9-5:00 setting. Good luck doing that in primary care. NOT to mention the procedures they do AND the call they take.

Those are the kings of the hospital system and admins will bend over backwards to make them happy because they bring that $$$ to the hospital.

In my area, they honestly deserve the $600-800,000 starting pay they make on a regular cause they are HUSTLING for it.

The primary care docs are raking in less than half which is not bad at all and are able to take weekends off.

But... ALSO... Physicians suck with money.

There's a thing called taxes.

And the time put in for making another 200-300K for the hours and years investment you put in just isn't worth it to some when Uncle Sam is taking 40-50% of each dollar after a certain point.

But shoot... they gotta pay for their 7,000 square foot homes and Maserati's somehow right?
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GI and cards are kings of the hospital? How about NS and CTS
 
DennisReynolds said:
Cards/GI make bank because they are all about volume AND procedures. In the outpatient setting, it is easy to run through 30-40 patients in a given 9-5:00 setting. Good luck doing that in primary care. NOT to mention the procedures they do AND the call they take.

Those are the kings of the hospital system and admins will bend over backwards to make them happy because they bring that $$$ to the hospital.

In my area, they honestly deserve the $600-800,000 starting pay they make on a regular cause they are HUSTLING for it.

The primary care docs are raking in less than half which is not bad at all and are able to take weekends off.

But... ALSO... Physicians suck with money.

There's a thing called taxes.

And the time put in for making another 200-300K for the hours and years investment you put in just isn't worth it to some when Uncle Sam is taking 40-50% of each dollar after a certain point.

But shoot... they gotta pay for their 7,000 square foot homes and Maserati's somehow right?
Click to expand...

Personally know a specialist who lost a solid chunk of their net worth during the crash in 2008 due to heavy real estate investments in Florida.
 
Deecee2DO said:
GI and cards are kings of the hospital? How about NS and CTS
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The amount of procedures that a cardiologist/GI doc compared to how many cases a neurosurgery is getting done is different. By the time a neurosurgeon has evacuated one hematoma or drained a bran abscess, a cardiologist and a GI doc has cath'ed and/or scoped 3-4 patients a piece with less complications and quicker bed turnover.

Honestly, god bless neurosurgeons or CTS or anybody in surgery in general.

Met 2 neurosurg residents on my last rotation and man.....they were really nice and all... but as we got to know them better, they both were admitting to my senior resident how depressed they are and how much their training is just nuts. They are actually trying to switch into something else.

But when I saw how happy the Cardiothoracic surgeon was when he pulled off in his $150,000 SUV in his scrubs from the physician parking lot, I get why people do what they do.

Attending life is much different than resident life in pretty much any field.
 
DennisReynolds said:
The amount of procedures that a cardiologist/GI doc compared to how many cases a neurosurgery is getting done is different. By the time a neurosurgeon has evacuated one hematoma or drained a bran abscess, a cardiologist and a GI doc has cath'ed and/or scoped 3-4 patients a piece with less complications and quicker bed turnover.

Honestly, god bless neurosurgeons or CTS or anybody in surgery in general.

Met 2 neurosurg residents on my last rotation and man.....they were really nice and all... but as we got to know them better, they both were admitting to my senior resident how depressed they are and how much their training is just nuts. They are actually trying to switch into something else.

But when I saw how happy the Cardiothoracic surgeon was when he pulled off in his $150,000 SUV in his scrubs from the physician parking lot, I get why people do what they do.

Attending life is much different than resident life in pretty much any field.
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But is it really all worth it for a 150K car? lmao i wanna make good money but still i feel like there are other specialties you can make great money and not have to go through absolute hell like CTS and NS. I respect the heck out of those people. You really have to love the OR and medicine more than anything else. Rads, IR, GI, Anesthesia to name a few where you can make seriously good money and the training doesnt compare to CTS and NS. I can bet those guys didnt do it for the money they did it because they are obsessed with the OR and the intrinsic rewards of the specialty itself
 
Deecee2DO said:
But is it really all worth it for a 150K car? lmao i wanna make good money but still i feel like there are other specialties you can make great money and not have to go through absolute hell like CTS and NS. I respect the heck out of those people. You really have to love the OR and medicine more than anything else. Rads, IR, GI, Anesthesia to name a few where you can make seriously good money and the training doesnt compare to CTS and NS. I can bet those guys didnt do it for the money they did it because they are obsessed with the OR and the intrinsic rewards of the specialty itself
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One thing you will understand as you get older/wiser is that people have different reasons for doing what they do.

None of which have to do with what we think or witness or what we define as "worthy".

So if people wanna go through that hell, then props to them.

I feel what ur saying.

Everything ain't for everybody!
 
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