COMLEX Vs USMLE

[BurninRiver]

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Do osteopathic students need to take the USMLE (as well as the COMLEX) in order to gain an MD residency? If so when would they take them? Directly after the COMLEX I

 

[iluvmed&ba6eekh]

yes, DO students would have to take the USMLE along with the COMLEX in order to be eligible for MD residencies. Many people choose to have both the COMLEX and USMLE around the same time, so that they don't have to study twice.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

I've heard that some ACGME (MD) residencies are beginning to accept the COMLEX without having taken the USMLE. This would be the exception, and I don't know details about this.

 

[Brodiewankenobi]

I've heard that some ACGME (MD) residencies are beginning to accept the COMLEX without having taken the USMLE. This would be the exception, and I don't know details about this.

chocolate bear is correct. This very topic came up during my interview day at DMU. Some residencies do a mathematical conversion of your comlex scores to USMLE score. Talking to the students their it seemed about half were going to take the USMLE.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

I've heard that some ACGME (MD) residencies are beginning to accept the COMLEX without having taken the USMLE. This would be the exception, and I don't know details about this.

This is probably true for the less competitive specialties. The best thing to do would be to contact the program and ask for their opinion.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

This is probably true for the less competitive specialties. The best thing to do would be to contact the program and ask for their opinion.

I'm sure you're right. Personally I can't imagine not taking both and keeping some potential doors closed for myself. But that's just me.

 

[tkim]

yes, DO students would have to take the USMLE along with the COMLEX in order to be eligible for MD residencies. Many people choose to have both the COMLEX and USMLE around the same time, so that they don't have to study twice.

Not quite. It would be easier for MD residencies to compare scores, but some residencies accept COMLEX scores. The USMLE is not a requirement, nor do you become 'ineligible' if you don't take it. It definitely is to your advantage to take the USMLE if you want reasonable consideration.

When I took the COMLEX and USMLE, I took the USMLE first, then the COMLEX a week later. I used the time off to rest a little, and study up on OMM.

 

[AMEHigh]

This is probably true for the less competitive specialties. The best thing to do would be to contact the program and ask for their opinion.

I'm not sure what the measure of competitive is, but the DO psychiatrist I'm shadowing now only had to take the COMLEX and she was at a "good" allopathic school for her residency.

I know psychiatry probably isn't considered a competitive specialty in the first place, but she got into a good allo residency. She now works there as well.

 

[Anton Chigurh]

Not quite. It would be easier for MD residencies to compare scores, but some residencies accept COMLEX scores. The USMLE is not a requirement, nor do you become 'ineligible' if you don't take it. It definitely is to your advantage to take the USMLE if you want reasonable consideration.

When I took the COMLEX and USMLE, I took the USMLE first, then the COMLEX a week later. I used the time off to rest a little, and study up on OMM.

I plan on taking both in this order as well. Did you focus solely on the USMLE?

 

[ShyRem]

You are not required to take the USMLE to get into an allopathic residency.

Let me repeat that: As a DO student, you are NOT REQUIRED TO TAKE THE USMLE to get into an ACGME program.

Now, having said that: officially, every residency will "accept" the COMLEX. If you get a chance to have a very (very) frank discussion with the program director of a particular ACGME program you are interested in, some (a very few) will tell you that if you only take the COMLEX and not the USMLE, you won't be looked at. Then, in the VERY NEXT BREATH, they will also tell you that if you only take the COMLEX but rotate through the particular program in question and do an absolutely stellar job, they will consider you. The residents at most programs have a big input as to who gets moved to the top of the list and who gets kicked to the bottom - so you can be a DO student who only takes the COMLEX for a program that unofficially "requires" the USMLE, have a fabulous rotation and be ranked highly; you can also be an allopathic student who rocks the USMLE, but has MHB syndrome (miserable human being syndrome) is hated by the residents and isn't ranked at all.

Bear in mind that most programs these days will absolutely take a COMLEX score and do not require a USMLE score to consider you for residency. The above scenario of under-handedly demanding a USMLE score is the exception rather than the rule. Lots of things change every year; I'd personally worry about getting into med school, doing well my first two years, and then seeing where the cards lay for any particular specialty I was looking at.

So let me repeat what I originally said: YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO TAKE THE USMLE TO GET INTO AN ACGME RESIDENCY.



Now, another word of wisdom: don't listen to pre-meds tell you anything about med school, rotations, residency, etc. They haven't been there yet. Good luck with your application season.

 

[tkim]

I plan on taking both in this order as well. Did you focus solely on the USMLE?

Yes and no. Even as a few years ago when I was studying for step I and II, there were few if any prep materials *appropriate* for the COMLEX. An example was the Kaplan COMLEX q-bank series. Absolute garbage. It was essentailly USMLE questions with a 'pt sidebent rotated blah blah blah' at the end with no bearing on the question. So most people studied using USMLE prep materials - the 3 P's, of course, but also some micro and OMM. COMLEX II - same thing, but throw in more peds, and OB/GYN.

The two exams are not comparable. USMLE I is the 3P's and multistep questions, where COMLEX I are the 3P's, but micro, but also some Step II-ish questions mostly framed as brute-force recall questions. There's less of a marked progression from pre-clinical to clinical, pathophys to diagnosis to treatment, in the COMLEX series, as there was with the USMLE. From USMLE I to USMLE II, I encountered a very deliberate increase in focus from preclinical to clinical questions. COMLEX, not so much.

I just passed COMLEX III, and honestly, it felt like I was taking COMLEX I and II all over again.

If I were a glutton for punishment I'd sign up for the USMLE Step III just to see how they compared. But since that would require taking CS - like I have an extra grand to throw away, I decided not such a good idea.

 

[BurninRiver]

So it would just be more beneficial to yourself to take both and keep the doors open?? right.

 

[tkim]

So it would just be more beneficial to yourself to take both and keep the doors open?? right.

Absolutely. But it's not *required*, nor would it make one *ineligible* to apply for MD residencies, as has been stated.

 

[cliquesh]

Every DO I know personally, which is a whoopingy 4, got into MD a residency with only COMLEX scores, and 3 out of the 4 entered MD fellowships as well. Pretty much what they told me was: "ace the COMLEX, and if you mess that up, take the USLME." But after surfing SDN, most current medical students say you need to take both to be competitive.

They all scored in the mid-to-upper 80th percentile, if that helps.

 

[iluvmed&ba6eekh]

yikes! my bad! 😕😱😳

I stand corrected.

 

[PistolPete]

Some residencies do a mathematical conversion of your comlex scores to USMLE score.

Apparently this "score conversion" from COMLEX to USMLE done by some residencies, using a formula, usually greatly underestimates a students performance on the USMLE. I can't remember what formula they use, but I think it's listed somewhere on this site. Most 2nd years who took the COMLEX and the USMLE, and compared the actual USMLE score with the "converted" USMLE score note a difference of about 10-15 points. So it might be a disservice to you if you apply with only COMLEX to an ACGME residency and the PD uses the formula, since this might be underestimating your true abilities.

 

[DragonWell]

While it may technically be true that MD residencies cannot officially require USMLE, I think you would be wise to think carefully before deciding not to take it, especially if you are uncertain what you want to do and, perhaps more importantly, where you want to do it. Areas of the country with fewer DOs tend to be much less familiar with COMLEX, so if you plan to go out west, for example, having a USMLE score might be a very good idea.

I'd take any generalizations on the subject with a grain of salt, since how open a program is to COMLEX or DOs in general may very well come down to the attitude of the particular PD running the program.

 

[KateGia]

I'm sure you're right. Personally I can't imagine not taking both and keeping some potential doors closed for myself. But that's just me.

There are a lot of factors that go into this decision. If you take the COMLEX and do decent, then take the USMLE and bomb it, you would have been better off not taking it. People say things about "not reporting scores" but when it comes down to it, if you are asked if you took the USMLE and say yes, they're going to want to know how you did. If you say no, and they find out you lied, that's not good either. So if you're going to take both, you better be REALLY confident.

 

[FutureInternist]

There are a lot of factors that go into this decision. If you take the COMLEX and do decent, then take the USMLE and bomb it, you would have been better off not taking it. People say things about "not reporting scores" but when it comes down to it, if you are asked if you took the USMLE and say yes, they're going to want to know how you did. If you say no, and they find out you lied, that's not good either. So if you're going to take both, you better be REALLY confident.

As of 2008 DO students HAVE TO REPORT THEIR USMLE SCORES, if they apply to allopathic residencies.
While the DO students I know are less comfortable w/ Biochem, genetics etc, it is nothing that a little "High Yield Molecular Biology" '99 ed, along with some Lippincott cannot cure.
Between those 2 & ofcourse UW I don't see any reason to not be up to speed w/ our MD counterparts on test day.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

There are a lot of factors that go into this decision. If you take the COMLEX and do decent, then take the USMLE and bomb it, you would have been better off not taking it. People say things about "not reporting scores" but when it comes down to it, if you are asked if you took the USMLE and say yes, they're going to want to know how you did. If you say no, and they find out you lied, that's not good either. So if you're going to take both, you better be REALLY confident.

Gotcha. Thanks for the insight. How long does it take to get scores back after taking each test?

 

[DragonWell]

Gotcha. Thanks for the insight. How long does it take to get scores back after taking each test?

COMLEX 5 weeks, USMLE 2-3 weeks. Approximately, of course.

 

[eag]

Unless you are definitely going into an osteopathic program, I would suggest taking both exams to cover yourself. This doesn't only apply to competitive fields. This also applies to competitive programs in non competitive fields. Example: I took both exams for step 1 thinking I would be ok until I spoke to the program directors at CHOP (the #1 children's hospital). They told me it wasn't required for me to take USMLE 2, but since other osteopathic students generally do, they sort of expect it. In the case of peds, there are far more allopathic programs than osteopathic programs (194 vs 17 to be exact). For me, most of the osteopathic peds programs are not exactly what I'm looking for. So in this case, I felt it necessary to take both exams. I didn't plan to take both exams for step 2. Now, I might have to in order to ensure my chances in the allopathic programs I'm applying to. If you are going into a field like Family Medicine, there are a lot of osteopathic programs and you won't have to take both boards if you didn't want to. Another example of why you should take both boards if you aren't sure where you will end up or what you will do: A friend of my was PM&R all the way until the end of 3rd year. She only took the COMLEX and wasn't going to take the USMLE. She totally changed the field she wanted to go into and now is going to do ER. From her research, she realized that she had to take the USMLE 1. So what she decided to do was take the COMLEX 2 and the USMLE 1 during the same time. I know I would've hated to be placed in that situation. Hearing her story made me glad I had done both boards. So make sure you do your research. But if you ask me, there is no harm in taking both Step 1 exams since its the same info give or take a few topics. The only reason I would understand not taking both boards is if you are 100% sure you will be entering an osteopathic program.