comments on p/f vs h/p/f

[jjy2103]

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just a survey
1. your school name
2. p/f or h/p/f or hh/hp/p/h
3. does your school keep class ranking?
4. classes curved?

thanks

 

[deuist]

UMiami... P/F... We use quartile rankings... classes are not curved, but appeals do occur.

 

[epalantequevoy]

mayo...p/f...no rankings...no curve

 

[Gimlet]

MCW
Honors/High Pass/Pass/Low Pass/Fail
No rankings
No curve

 

[Fif the Great]

WVU
H/P/F
Rankings
No curve

 

[liverotcod]

What are the approximate percentage cutoffs for honors and high pass?
E.g. Honors 93%, HP 88%

 

[liverotcod]

1) UWisconsin
2) A AB B BC C F
3) Rankings
4) No curve but they sometimes give a predicted outcome, i.e. 20% A, 22% AB, 28% B etc.

 

[Gimlet]

What are the approximate percentage cutoffs for honors and high pass?
E.g. Honors 93%, HP 88%

For us it depends on the class. Each department sets their own standards.
Anatomy: Honors 93%, HP 89%
Biochem: Honors 90%, HP 84%
Devo: Honors 90%, HP 80% 😀

The Biochem dept. re-evaluates the scale every year based on class performance, so I guess technically that class is "curved." The 90/84 figure is based on the historical average for the class over the last 7 or 8 years. The 90% figure for honors seems low, but when there's only 35 questions on the test there isn't a whole lot of room for error if you want to get honors.

 

[microTAS]

1. Stanford
2. P/F all 4 years (I think we're the only school now that has this)
3. no way, the students would never allow that here
4. not sure. seems like it is based off of past year's performance and the standards of being ready for board/residency/your (eventual) job

also: no AOA (honor society)
also: sunshine = happiness

you can imagine that the student body is self-selected and incentive-directed to be extremely cooperative and friendly (sometimes tooooo friendly... ).

 

[Hurricane]

1. University of Cincinnati
2. Honors/High Pass/Pass/Fail
3. yes
4. Each class has their own scale. Some are curved, some are not. And then some are semi-curved. Surgery, for example, has a set number of people who will be Honors, High Pass, etc. in each group. So the top 5 get Honors, next 10 get High Pass, etc. But if you don't perform so many SDs above the mean on the Shelf, then you are ineligible for Honors, and the highest you can possibly get is High Pass.

Some of them are really complicated, and some students really immerse themselves into understanding the intricacies of these byzantine grading schemes. I prefer to spend my time on more productive things, such as studying, working, and enjoying my free time. You get what you get, and knowing the complicated formula behind your grade isn't going to change that, IMO.

 

[fyli260]

1. UCSF
2. P/F (actually, it's pass now or pass later)
3. never heard of anything about ranking (not even rumors)
4. No curve. Go 70%!

 

[Callogician]

1) Drexel U. College of Medicine
2) Honors/High Satisfactory/Low Satisfactory/Marginally Unsatisfactory/Unsatisfactory
3) No (probably defacto curved as described above)
4) Yes

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

1) UWisconsin
2) A AB B BC C F
3) Rankings
4) No curve but they sometimes give a predicted outcome, i.e. 20% A, 22% AB, 28% B etc.

Wow... Sure glad I didn't apply to UWisconsin! 😉

 

[HrsNJ]

1. AECOM
2. p/f for first 2 years, clinical years have honors, high pass, pass, fail
3. NO RANKINGS for first 2 years
4. no curve; 65% is passing

I 😍 the pass/fail system there. I'm definitely still motivated to study and do well, but it removes a TON of stress.

 

[liverotcod]

Wow... Sure glad I didn't apply to UWisconsin! 😉

Thanks for your concern 😛
Today the administration sent out a survey asking for our preferences: straight P/F or grades per status quo. I voted P/F but really had to think about it. There is no doubt that having grades helps me to work harder at learning the material, which should pay off on the boards. I'm pretty sure I could pass without ever studying beyond going to class. It would be interesting to look at grading methodology vs Step 1 scores while controlling for other variables. This has probably been done, actually, since it seems like such an obvious thing to look at.

 

[Treg]

1. University of Alberta
2. p/f but there is a dean's honors list at the end of first and second year (top 15%)
3. They must (see #2) but it is not published or on transcripts or anything
4. Yes to some degree

We are one of the last Canadian schools with honors. I think it is so counterproductive. I have people in my class that are so focused on getting honors that they are complete tightasses. Ugh. There is more to a strong residency application than honors!

🙂 Treg

 

[SMRT]

1) University of Toronto
2) H (80+) / P (60-79) / F(<60)
3) No
4) No

 

[epalantequevoy]

1. Stanford
2. P/F all 4 years (I think we're the only school now that has this)

Mayo is also P/F all 4 years. It's a new policy that started this year.

 

[Scottish Chap]

1. SUNY Upstate
2. hon/high pass/pass/cond pass (remediation/additional work needed)/fail.
3. We are given a 'raw %' for exams so class rank can't be difficult to monitor.
4. No curve; 70% is passing. Boundaries between hon/high pass/pass etc. can be 'adjusted' on occasion.

 

[Antigunner]

OU
A/B/C/D/F (need C or better)
Quartiles
No curve, but we have a student Exam Review Committee to appeal specific test questions

 

[MDT]

Mayo is also P/F all 4 years. It's a new policy that started this year.

Actually Mayo is only officially P/F for first year. The second year is P/F for the first time this year, but it only on a trial basis. They are evaluating how P/F for both 1st and 2nd year will effect board scores, match results, student stress/mood/cooperation, etc. Depending on how all of these things end up, then they will decide whether or not to make P/F for second year permanent.

However, third and fourth year are graded Honors/High Pass/Pass/Fail and there are no plans to change the grading for years III and IV.

 

[epalantequevoy]

Actually Mayo is only officially P/F for first year. The second year is P/F for the first time this year, but it only on a trial basis. They are evaluating how P/F for both 1st and 2nd year will effect board scores, match results, student stress/mood/cooperation, etc. Depending on how all of these things end up, then they will decide whether or not to make P/F for second year permanent.

However, third and fourth year are graded Honors/High Pass/Pass/Fail and there are no plans to change the grading for years III and IV.

that's not what the deans told our class at orientation back in july...

 

[efex101]

That was also my understanding that P/F is for set for ALL first year classes and second year is P/F for our class (2008) and your class epalente (2009) on a trial basis. If all goes well boards etc...then they will permanently make second year P/F. Third and fourth years from my understanding are H/HP/P/F

 

[epalantequevoy]

well this is definitely worth clarifying then, because i just double checked with my roommate who is in my class (09) and he verified that we were told to expect P/F grading for all four years. you guys are probably right in that it's a trial thing, but they told our class it would be P/F each year until we graduate.

 

[quideam]

1. Weill Cornell Medical College
2. H/P/F first year, with top 20% getting honors; H/HP/P/F last two years
3. A strict "ranking" isn't followed, but for the dean's letter we're grouped into 5ths (so you just either really want to be in the top 1/5th or not be in the bottom 1/5th - the rest is pretty much irrelevant)
4. 65 is always passing; a curve in the sense that top 20% will get the H, regardless of what their actual scores are (though here they're nearly always really high, in the low 90's at least)

Q