Community College ECs

[CaliGirl14]

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Hello! I'm about to begin the long, daring journey of trying to make it into medical school by attending my community college next month. Many of my required classes to transfer to my state school (UC) overlap with the BCPM classes (EnviroScience Major). Anyway, I was wondering what kind of ECs would be acceptable to do now (for the next two years) while I am taking my CC classes? 😕

Obviously some that don't need to be mentioned are: tutoring, volunteering at a hospital, and EMT.

Oh, what's the difference between volunteering and 'clinical experience'?

How about 'shadowing' or 'research'? When would it be an appropriate time to do start? 🙄

I know the answer will probably be 'yes', but my ECs at my community college will be 'legit' enough for medadcoms, right? (wow, do I sound like a HS student 😛)

What else do you recommend? I don't want to seem to 'generic' when it comes to ECs. (although that's somewhat inevitable) 😳

Perhaps I'm just freaking out about my ECs coming from a CC, but what did you do your first two years, EC-wise, as a pre-med? (Regardless where you came from) 😳

In advance, thank you so much for responding and sorry for my ignorance.

 

[NickNaylor]

My $0.02:

-If you want to do shadowing and research, you should get on top of these things as soon as possible. I think it would be better to start doing these things sooner rather than later.

-Your experiences will be "legit" regardless of where you have them. They're "legit" if they're meaningful and you can discuss them, regardless of where they happened.

-As far as ECs go, my general advice would be to do things that you enjoy of course, but also do things that can fit into your grand plan somehow. By this I mean choose activities that will help you in the medical school process. Don't get involved in things haphazardly - know why you're joining specific organizations and think about how they are helping you get into medical school.

-I would guess that most people's first year is fairly relaxed. I was in a couple of organizations, but really my main focus was getting adjusted to college life and staying on top of my grades. Since then, though, I've added more and more activities as I'm able. I wouldn't stress too much about being involved in a ton of activities right away, but keep it on your mind.

Hope this is helpful and best of luck.

 

[CapnCrunch]

Shadowing almost seems like a must, unless you've ascertained what it is to be a doctor and live like a doctor through something else (e.g. parents).

Research is not required, but also something many of your fellow students have done. And depending on what the research is, it can be quite enjoyable and interesting.

And as far as a clinical experience goes... My adviser told me it's not a clinical experience unless you touched something icky. Meaning that you should have been having some kind of patient interaction. Good luck!

 

[CaliGirl14]

Thank you so much for your input!

I have another question, am I a bit...screwed..when it comes to LORs coming from a community college?

If it's coming from a professor, don't you normally establish only a quarter or semester long relationship with them? Wouldn't it be okay if I asked my junior year upper division professor for a LOR? Would it be strong enough? Or are they looking for a BCPM LOR? ( I have to take those at my CC unfortunately, but would they look down upon me for asking a professor there for one?)

Thank you 🙂

 

[bravofleet4]

you ideally want LOR's coming from professors at your 4-year university and the schools usually mandate that they two of them be BPCM. Most people do not get those letters from their 1st or 2nd year professors, because as you've noticed that the relationship most students form with their professor is only a quarter or semester long, so most get them from their 3rd year or 4th year upper-div professors. Non-BPCM LOR's should just be considered extra one's meaning they will not count toward the 2 science LOR's you need for medical school.

I'm a little confused why you have to take all your BPCM classes at the CC if you're going to transfer.

 

[7starmantis]

you ideally want LOR's coming from professors at your 4-year university and the schools usually mandate that they two of them be BPCM. Most people do not get those letters from their 1st or 2nd year professors, because as you've noticed that the relationship most students form with their professor is only a quarter or semester long, so most get them from their 3rd year or 4th year upper-div professors. Non-BPCM LOR's should just be considered extra one's meaning they will not count toward the 2 science LOR's you need for medical school.

I'm a little confused why you have to take all your BPCM classes at the CC if you're going to transfer.

Certainly not disagreeing per se, but I did have one LOR from a CC professor. However he has been head of the Physics department for like 35 years and I met him as a junior at my University (was going to the CC to take extra hours during the semester).

Best advice I could ever give is to do your best and follow your heart/gut. There are no real formulas to getting accepted in med school. Your application is as unique as you are....make it so.

Also, I'm a non-trad so I certainly got different letters than traditional applicants do.

 

[CaliGirl14]

you ideally want LOR's coming from professors at your 4-year university and the schools usually mandate that they two of them be BPCM. Most people do not get those letters from their 1st or 2nd year professors, because as you've noticed that the relationship most students form with their professor is only a quarter or semester long, so most get them from their 3rd year or 4th year upper-div professors. Non-BPCM LOR's should just be considered extra one's meaning they will not count toward the 2 science LOR's you need for medical school.

I'm a little confused why you have to take all your BPCM classes at the CC if you're going to transfer.

I'm an Environmental Major and to transfer to UCLA I have to take a year of Biology, Chemistry, Physics, English, Calculus, and then a semester of O-chem. (Basically they're my pre-reqs to get into UCLA)

Wait, but don't most pre-meds take their BCPM during their 1st and 2nd year to prepare for the MCAT during their junior year? Or am I confusing this...people apply to med school during the summer between 3rd and 4th, right? So that would mean they took the during their junior year, and in order to do that they'd take their BCPM during their 1st and 2nd...

 

[bravofleet4]

i'm sorry. I don't know that much of what's involved in an environmental major. Aren't the classes you'll be taking 3rd and 4th year still science courses? If not I'm afraid you'll be at a slight disadvantage taking all your BPCM at a CC but I think this was already covered in one of the other threads you started. But no a lot of pre-med's are science majors so they continue taking BPCM classes all the way up to they graduate. Technically, most science courses help you prepare for the MCAT but the pre-req's are the most important. Nevertheless, IMO it's better all things considered equal to get one from a professor teaching an upper-div course rather than a lower-div course like physiology or neurobiology than g. chem or gen. bio. However, as someone else pointed out, it really depends on who you think will write the most glowing letter.

Most pre-med's also don't start seriously thinking about medical school until their 3rd or 4th year with regards to LOR's. I mean think about it. If I need a LOR to apply 3rd year, you're going to back to your 1st year gen bio teacher and ask him for one after 2 years? Unless you've been keeping in touch this entire time, they'll probably have forgotten you entirely now. Plus, you usually have to put in some extra effort you normally wouldn't do to get LOR's. It's probably possible to get closer to your professor in CC without putting in much extra effort but at a 4-year university with class sizes of 300-400+, you have to usually have to go to office hours or stay after class asking questions you might already know the answer to every week to just get some face time. At best, the professor might remember your face but not always your name. You might not have this problem in CC but the LOR's you ask for have to attest to a lot more than your grade or ranking in the class.

some medical schools also require a couple of upper div courses + labs, so you might not be able to meet all of your pre-med requirements in just your first 2 years but I don't think you'll have to worry about it. Plus, you have to take another semester of o-chem don't you?

Here's UCI's

Biology 1.5
12 semester
16 quarter1 year of Labs
Courses must include one upper-division Biology course Chemistry 2 16 semester
20 quarter 1 year of Labs
Courses must include Inorganic, Organic, and Biochemistry

 

[riverjib]

you ideally want LOR's coming from professors at your 4-year university and the schools usually mandate that they two of them be BPCM. Most people do not get those letters from their 1st or 2nd year professors, because as you've noticed that the relationship most students form with their professor is only a quarter or semester long, so most get them from their 3rd year or 4th year upper-div professors. Non-BPCM LOR's should just be considered extra one's meaning they will not count toward the 2 science LOR's you need for medical school.

I'm a little confused why you have to take all your BPCM classes at the CC if you're going to transfer.

I agree that you need to get LORs from upper-level professors, because it's far more impressive than those you get as a freshman. Aside from this, I completely disagree with the idea that ADCOMs will regard a LOR from a 4-year school less than one from a CC.

I returned to school full-time as a non-traditional student, and since I was supporting myself and couldn't get scholarships based on academic success in 1997, I chose to take my pre-reqs at a CC. I was confident that I could maintain the same GPA once I transferred to a 4-year school that I did in a CC, so it made sense to pay next to nothing for what I firmly believe is the same education.

Since my classes were small and I was involved with the honors program, I had great opportunities at my CC. The chemistry department chair gave up his full-time position at Georgetown (though he continued to teach there) and instead focused on helping disadvantaged but bright and determined students attain success. Through him, I did independent research that led to 14 conference presentations (two national--American Chemical society), I taught general and organic chem workshops to other students, I taught a NY Regents chemistry course to high school students, I worked in the stock room, helping to set up labs, I worked as a part-time research coordinator dealing with the IRB, and I earned 12 academic awards and scholarships. When I applied for transfer, I was accepted to Columbia, Cornell, and UPenn, but I chose to accept the much-coveted spot in my state school's Honors College because I was granted full tuition and countless benefits. I earned this spot over literally of hundreds of other applicants from within the university.

My point is that I'm not particularly special, but my accomplishments and unusual opportunities from my CC set me apart from so many others who were academically as qualified as I was, or even more so if you believe those who claim a 4.0 at a 4-year school is better than a 4.0 from a CC. I got to know my professors very well, and since they're accustomed to dealing with students who are (in the honors classes) either lazy or far too preoccupied with reality (kids, ailing parents, or various personal situations) to perform to their capabilities, I had tremendous support from professors who were determined to help prove that CC students are capable of amazing things. Every professor I ever had there offered to write me a glowing LOR.

I was especially close to my chemistry professor, who taught me four semesters of honors chemistry and gave me all the aformentioned positions within his department. I read the LOR he wrote me for transfer to the Ivies and honors colleges, and it was a beautiful (two-page long) summary of my accomplishments and what sets me apart from others who have accomplished the same things. I was stunned by how beautiful it was; not only did he know how to write the perfect LOR, but he really KNEW me. I transferred last year and my department chair loves me. I've talked to him on multiple occasions, but when he writes my LOR, it won't convey even a tenth of what the other one will, as glowing as it may be. He doesn't know ME, or what I've personally had to deal with while doing well in his class.

Even my pre-med committee adviser finally relented and said that my best recommendation is from my CC mentor. Every situation is different, so take what people tell you here with a grain of salt. Definitely get to know as many of your professors as possible to ensure that you'll get the best possible LORs.

 

[dokein]

I agree that you need to get LORs from upper-level professors, because it's far more impressive than those you get as a freshman. Aside from this, I completely disagree with the idea that ADCOMs will regard a LOR from a 4-year school less than one from a CC.

I returned to school full-time as a non-traditional student, and since I was supporting myself and couldn't get scholarships based on academic success in 1997, I chose to take my pre-reqs at a CC. I was confident that I could maintain the same GPA once I transferred to a 4-year school that I did in a CC, so it made sense to pay next to nothing for what I firmly believe is the same education.

Since my classes were small and I was involved with the honors program, I had great opportunities at my CC. The chemistry department chair gave up his full-time position at Georgetown (though he continued to teach there) and instead focused on helping disadvantaged but bright and determined students attain success. Through him, I did independent research that led to 14 conference presentations (two national--American Chemical society), I taught general and organic chem workshops to other students, I taught a NY Regents chemistry course to high school students, I worked in the stock room, helping to set up labs, I worked as a part-time research coordinator dealing with the IRB, and I earned 12 academic awards and scholarships. When I applied for transfer, I was accepted to Columbia, Cornell, and UPenn, but I chose to accept the much-coveted spot in my state school's Honors College because I was granted full tuition and countless benefits. I earned this spot over literally of hundreds of other applicants from within the university.

My point is that I'm not particularly special, but my accomplishments and unusual opportunities from my CC set me apart from so many others who were academically as qualified as I was, or even more so if you believe those who claim a 4.0 at a 4-year school is better than a 4.0 from a CC. I got to know my professors very well, and since they're accustomed to dealing with students who are (in the honors classes) either lazy or far too preoccupied with reality (kids, ailing parents, or various personal situations) to perform to their capabilities, I had tremendous support from professors who were determined to help prove that CC students are capable of amazing things. Every professor I ever had there offered to write me a glowing LOR.

I was especially close to my chemistry professor, who taught me four semesters of honors chemistry and gave me all the aformentioned positions within his department. I read the LOR he wrote me for transfer to the Ivies and honors colleges, and it was a beautiful (two-page long) summary of my accomplishments and what sets me apart from others who have accomplished the same things. I was stunned by how beautiful it was; not only did he know how to write the perfect LOR, but he really KNEW me. I transferred last year and my department chair loves me. I've talked to him on multiple occasions, but when he writes my LOR, it won't convey even a tenth of what the other one will, as glowing as it may be. He doesn't know ME, or what I've personally had to deal with while doing well in his class.

Even my pre-med committee adviser finally relented and said that my best recommendation is from my CC mentor. Every situation is different, so take what people tell you here with a grain of salt. Definitely get to know as many of your professors as possible to ensure that you'll get the best possible LORs.

You can't compare an amazing recommendation from Place A with a ****ty recommendation from Place B, and say that therefore there's no disadvantage at all to a recommendation from place A. There can still be a disadvantage but what you did with that professor far outweighs said disadvantage.

Disadvantage does not mean "throw it in the trash", it just means that two equivalent recommendations, one signed by a professor from a CC and one signed by a professor from a university, will be given different weights. If you had the exact same letter of recommendation from the Dean of Harvard, trust me, it would be given more weight.

 

[bravofleet4]

Yeah it is disadvantangeous the same way that taking your pre-req's and upper-div's at CC are, it's just not too bad to significantly harm you but the odds are a little worse against you when they're already stacked heavily against you to begin with. Like the above post states, it's just generally true when all other things are considered equal. You obviously were greatly involved in your CC and if I were in your situation I would definitely get a LOR from there but I would still get 2 science LOR's from the 4-year university. Let's remember it's not one or the other. Plus, this is just my opinion, but no matter how glowing a LOR from a CC is about your personality, I still have doubts about its value against one from a 4-year university unless the 4-year university was just a sentence long and was so generic that it could be anyone. It's only worth a lot if they specifically refer to all of your activities and time commitment since it proves everything you put down in other the activities section of your application which is one purpose of LOR's.

Taking CC now, it's exactly as you said, most professors think you're wonderful just for taking their class seriously. I mean I could virtually ask any of my professors right now for LOR's and they would agree solely based on the fact that I just took my assignments seriously. It's much harder than when I was at a 4-year university where I really had to go out of my way to impress someone. I wonder if the adcoms know that too...

 

[CaliGirl14]

Yeah it is disadvantangeous the same way that taking your pre-req's and upper-div's at CC are, it's just not too bad to significantly harm you but the odds are a little worse against you when they're already stacked heavily against you to begin with. Like the above post states, it's just generally true when all other things are considered equal. You obviously were greatly involved in your CC and if I were in your situation I would definitely get a LOR from there but I would still get 2 science LOR's from the 4-year university. Let's remember it's not one or the other. Plus, this is just my opinion, but no matter how glowing a LOR from a CC is about your personality, I still have doubts about its value against one from a 4-year university unless the 4-year university was just a sentence long and was so generic that it could be anyone. It's only worth a lot if they specifically refer to all of your activities and time commitment since it proves everything you put down in other the activities section of your application which is one purpose of LOR's.

Taking CC now, it's exactly as you said, most professors think you're wonderful just for taking their class seriously. I mean I could virtually ask any of my professors right now for LOR's and they would agree solely based on the fact that I just took my assignments seriously. It's much harder than when I was at a 4-year university where I really had to go out of my way to impress someone. I wonder if the adcoms know that too...

🙂 Well good thing I'm not taking upper division courses at my CC, just my pre-reqs..(I've actually never heard of that..).

I guess the best thing to do is get a LOR from my CC, but consider it an 'extra' LOR. I know most people don't use professors from their 1st and 2nd year, so it's not like I'll be at a super disadvantage if everyone will get it from their third year, right?

 

[CaliGirl14]

i'm sorry. I don't know that much of what's involved in an environmental major. Aren't the classes you'll be taking 3rd and 4th year still science courses? If not I'm afraid you'll be at a slight disadvantage taking all your BPCM at a CC but I think this was already covered in one of the other threads you started. But no a lot of pre-med's are science majors so they continue taking BPCM classes all the way up to they graduate. Technically, most science courses help you prepare for the MCAT but the pre-req's are the most important. Nevertheless, IMO it's better all things considered equal to get one from a professor teaching an upper-div course rather than a lower-div course like physiology or neurobiology than g. chem or gen. bio. However, as someone else pointed out, it really depends on who you think will write the most glowing letter.

Most pre-med's also don't start seriously thinking about medical school until their 3rd or 4th year with regards to LOR's. I mean think about it. If I need a LOR to apply 3rd year, you're going to back to your 1st year gen bio teacher and ask him for one after 2 years? Unless you've been keeping in touch this entire time, they'll probably have forgotten you entirely now. Plus, you usually have to put in some extra effort you normally wouldn't do to get LOR's. It's probably possible to get closer to your professor in CC without putting in much extra effort but at a 4-year university with class sizes of 300-400+, you have to usually have to go to office hours or stay after class asking questions you might already know the answer to every week to just get some face time. At best, the professor might remember your face but not always your name. You might not have this problem in CC but the LOR's you ask for have to attest to a lot more than your grade or ranking in the class.

some medical schools also require a couple of upper div courses + labs, so you might not be able to meet all of your pre-med requirements in just your first 2 years but I don't think you'll have to worry about it. Plus, you have to take another semester of o-chem don't you?

Here's UCI's

Biology 1.5
12 semester
16 quarter1 year of Labs
Courses must include one upper-division Biology course Chemistry 2 16 semester
20 quarter 1 year of Labs
Courses must include Inorganic, Organic, and Biochemistry

Yes. My 3rd and 4th year upper division courses will be science courses. They won't be BCPM exactly (more like geology, ecology, oceans. Although I still have to minor in physics or engineering so I guess those count as BCPM?). Yes, I still have to take my second semester of O-chem at UCLA.

So people ask LOR from their third year upper division classes, right?

Haha, sorry for sounding so dumb and confused!😳

 

[casillas]

Thank you so much for your input!

I have another question, am I a bit...screwed..when it comes to LORs coming from a community college?

If it's coming from a professor, don't you normally establish only a quarter or semester long relationship with them? Wouldn't it be okay if I asked my junior year upper division professor for a LOR? Would it be strong enough? Or are they looking for a BCPM LOR? ( I have to take those at my CC unfortunately, but would they look down upon me for asking a professor there for one?)

Thank you 🙂

i went the CC route and got one of my four letters from a community college prefessor. i had taken a class with him and later worked with him on a year long project. and not one school has complained or refused my letter as not being from a science professor.

I'm an Environmental Major and to transfer to UCLA I have to take a year of Biology, Chemistry, Physics, English, Calculus, and then a semester of O-chem. (Basically they're my pre-reqs to get into UCLA)

Wait, but don't most pre-meds take their BCPM during their 1st and 2nd year to prepare for the MCAT during their junior year? Or am I confusing this...people apply to med school during the summer between 3rd and 4th, right? So that would mean they took the during their junior year, and in order to do that they'd take their BCPM during their 1st and 2nd...

i took most of my med school pre-reqs at a CC except organic chemistry just because it was not offered. i think it you would be doing yourself a diservice if you wait till you transfer to start the required classes. just make sure you do extremely well in them and then when you transfer take some upper divsion science classes and also do well. If your major does not require it i would recommend you take genetics, biochemistry and cell biology.

 

[CaliGirl14]

i went the CC route and got one of my four letters from a community college prefessor. i had taken a class with him and later worked with him on a year long project. and not one school has complained or refused my letter as not being from a science professor.





i took most of my med school pre-reqs at a CC except organic chemistry just because it was not offered. i think it you would be doing yourself a diservice if you wait till you transfer to start the required classes. just make sure you do extremely well in them and then when you transfer take some upper divsion science classes and also do well. If your major does not require it i would recommend you take genetics, biochemistry and cell biology.

What constitutes as upper division science courses? I've got to take some of these courses from UCLA...are they considered 'strong' science courses? Acceptable? Or do I really need to take a BCPM science course?

Atmospheric and Water Science
A&O SCI 101 - Fundamentals of Atmospheric Dynamics and Thermodynamics
A&O SCI 103 - Physical Oceanography
A&O SCI M105 - Introduction to Chemical Oceanography
A&O SCI 130 - California's Ocean
E&S SCI C132 - Hydrogeology
E&S SCI 153 - Oceans and Atmospheres
GEOG 105 - Hydrology
Climate Science
A&O SCI 102 - Climate Change and Climate Modeling
GEOG 102 - Tropical Climatology
GEOG 104 - Climatology
GEOG M106 - Applied Climatology
Earth Science
E&S SCI C113 - Biological and Environmental Geochemistry
E&S SCI 119 - Continental Drift and Plate Tectonics
E&S SCI 135 - Introduction to Applied Geophysics
E&S SCI 139 - Engineering and Environmental Geology
E&S SCI 150 - Remote Sensing for Earth Sciences
GEOG 100 - Principles of Geomorphology
GEOG 101 - Coastal Geomorphology
GEOG M127 - Soils and Environment
Ecology and Conservation Biology
EE BIOL 100 - Introduction to Ecology and Behavior
EE BIOL 109 - Introduction to Marine Science
EE BIOL 151A - Tropical Ecology
EE BIOL 154 - California Ecosystems
ENVIRON 121 - Conservation of Biodiversity or EE BIOL 116 - Conservation Biology
GEOG 111 - Forest Ecosystems
GEOG 113 - Humid Tropics

 

[chman]

What constitutes as upper division science courses? I've got to take some of these courses from UCLA...are they considered 'strong' science courses? Acceptable? Or do I really need to take a BCPM science course?

Atmospheric and Water Science
A&O SCI 101 - Fundamentals of Atmospheric Dynamics and Thermodynamics
A&O SCI 103 - Physical Oceanography
A&O SCI M105 - Introduction to Chemical Oceanography
A&O SCI 130 - California's Ocean
E&S SCI C132 - Hydrogeology
E&S SCI 153 - Oceans and Atmospheres
GEOG 105 - Hydrology
Climate Science
A&O SCI 102 - Climate Change and Climate Modeling
GEOG 102 - Tropical Climatology
GEOG 104 - Climatology
GEOG M106 - Applied Climatology
Earth Science
E&S SCI C113 - Biological and Environmental Geochemistry
E&S SCI 119 - Continental Drift and Plate Tectonics
E&S SCI 135 - Introduction to Applied Geophysics
E&S SCI 139 - Engineering and Environmental Geology
E&S SCI 150 - Remote Sensing for Earth Sciences
GEOG 100 - Principles of Geomorphology
GEOG 101 - Coastal Geomorphology
GEOG M127 - Soils and Environment
Ecology and Conservation Biology
EE BIOL 100 - Introduction to Ecology and Behavior
EE BIOL 109 - Introduction to Marine Science
EE BIOL 151A - Tropical Ecology
EE BIOL 154 - California Ecosystems
ENVIRON 121 - Conservation of Biodiversity or EE BIOL 116 - Conservation Biology
GEOG 111 - Forest Ecosystems
GEOG 113 - Humid Tropics

Not to discourage you because I think that people should major in what they like, but be prepared to explain why you majored in enviro science and don't want to work in that field. It is one of those majors, such as nursing, that is pretty specific. I am not saying that it is not good, or that you shouldn't do it, just to keep that in mind. The other thing is that it leaves very little wiggle room, from my understanding.

 

[bravofleet4]

Not to discourage you because I think that people should major in what they like, but be prepared to explain why you majored in enviro science and don't want to work in that field. It is one of those majors, such as nursing, that is pretty specific. I am not saying that it is not good, or that you shouldn't do it, just to keep that in mind. The other thing is that it leaves very little wiggle room, from my understanding.

i dont' know. it doesn't seem like anything that really needs to be explained. i mean there are so many chemistry and engineering majors that apply to med school and those subjects while highly respectable are still farther away from the human body than biology. i don't think the medical schools expect you to major in a subject that you necessarily plan to pursue a career in since all the majors are pretty much worthless without going further and pursuing a masters of PHD. The vast majority of people end up taking a career outside of their major. You just want that college degree to prove to people that you're intelligent and can be trained.

 

[chman]

i dont' know. it doesn't seem like anything that really needs to be explained. i mean there are so many chemistry and engineering majors that apply to med school and those subjects while highly respectable are still farther away from the human body than biology. i don't think the medical schools expect you to major in a subject that you necessarily plan to pursue a career in since all the majors are pretty much worthless without going further and pursuing a masters of PHD. The vast majority of people end up taking a career outside of their major. You just want that college degree to prove to people that you're intelligent and can be trained.

I agree. I am sure that it comes up for engineering majors though, and chemistry is just a broad science foundation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not even doing a science major, and as I said above, I think people should major in what they like.

The only reason I said anything was because, from the evrio science majors I have known, it is a lot of credits without much room for electives. The other thing is that some, if not many, medical schools do not consider enviro science classes as biology. This would be no big deal, but coming from a cc it is good to fit in a couple upper division biology courses.

But you are right that most majors don't prepare for a certain career.

 

[bravofleet4]

Yes, most pre-med's get their letters from their 3rd year professors only b/c that's right around when you apply and you want people whose memory of you is fresh. Many people take physics their 3rd year and even though that's not an upper-div class, many people do it, so if you can get one I would do it. However, i don't know in your case if the classes are "sciency" enough. I think they are but I'm not 100% certain. I would actually just contact a few schools by phone and ask them or repost this question as a different thread.

If you need to take a biology lab you might be able to get a LOR from those. At my school, there was only one lab available for 1st and 2nd years, so I continued taking them my 3rd and 4th year. 2 of my LOR's I got were from my biochemistry lab and neurobiology lab. Just make sure that the professor at least co-signs it in this case as a letter written by a TA is frowned upon.

Ideally when asking for a LOR you'll want the following qualities which you won't always have and then it's up to you decide if you want to ask for a LOR.

1. someone who's relatively prestigious
2. this person seems like they would write a glowing letter (sometimes even if a professor generally likes you they might not put much effort into writing one).
3. have a good relationship with and sees you on a regular basis and can testify to your qualities as a student
4. can corroborate any activities you might've done with this professor (it's especially wonderful to work with a professor after the class perhaps as a TA, undergrad researcher, or department tutor, b/c it shows that person has known for a long time and that you're truthful about what you listed for your activities)
5. you have an A in their class (this is sort of important. a lot of times people will get B's in a class but want to still get a LOR from the professor and it's your call but just try to get an A so in the LOR they can say you're one of the best students they have!).
6. this person has time to write a LOR. It can take a very long time to write a LOR if the person has a hectic schedule. A couple months is not too unusual. In fact, etiquette dictates that you only inquire about how progress is going after 2 weeks and only in the form as a friendly reminder. Do not hound your professors over a LOR or they may penalize you consciously or subconsciously! They don't have to show you the LOR after all.

Now that I think about it since I applied as a senior, you might have less time to meet professors. If you take a normal courseload you might meet 3-5 professors every semester but you want to meet the criteria I've listed above it might not be possible. Getting a B in the class or not being able to make office hours to get to know the professor are common obstacles. I would guess try to get closer with a couple of 2nd year professors just in case as a backup.

Asking for LOR is a serious matter. For the LOR writing service at my school, once a letter is submitted to my department, it can only be removed by request by the LOR writer and not the student. Plus, there is a maximum number of letters that your school service and the medical school accepts. However, AMCAS has changed the LOR writing service so that you can actually choose which LOR's you want to send, so that might change. The only downside is that AMCAS unlike your school service will only store the LOR's for one year (my school service stores them for 7 years), so if you don't get in, you'll have to ask the LOR writers to resubmit which can be a huge hassle. Some professors I've met actually will address this issue on the first day of class of what it takes to get a LOR and how to approach them for one. These are easy LOR's to ask for as you know straight out they will say yes if you meet their requirements.

 

[CaliGirl14]

I agree. I am sure that it comes up for engineering majors though, and chemistry is just a broad science foundation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not even doing a science major, and as I said above, I think people should major in what they like.

The only reason I said anything was because, from the evrio science majors I have known, it is a lot of credits without much room for electives. The other thing is that some, if not many, medical schools do not consider enviro science classes as biology. This would be no big deal, but coming from a cc it is good to fit in a couple upper division biology courses.

But you are right that most majors don't prepare for a certain career.

Wow. That's a bit weird, and somewhat bothersome. So is Enviro Science just a random major? It's not considered 'sciency' enough for med school, but it's not a non-science major either. The major requires you to take your average BCPM classes, and when it comes to upper division courses, you must take enviro classes. Meh, this is not turning out well.

The major requires around 10-12 courses (72-74 units), and it also requires you to minor in either Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences, Conservation Biology, Environmental Engineering, Environmental Health, Environmental Systems and Society, Geography/Environmental Studies,Geology, or. Geophysics and Planetary Physics.
So, obviously I'd want to major in something that includes upper division 'science' classes...which leaves me to minor in: Environmental Health (Chemistry, Biochemistry, Epidemiology); 6 courses (22-24units).

18ish courses.(94-98units). 6 quarters. Do-able..right?


So...I think I'll be okay.

I don't think I need to be too concerned about explaining why I chose to major in Environmental Science besides the fact that I love the environment.

 

[casillas]

What constitutes as upper division science courses? I've got to take some of these courses from UCLA...are they considered 'strong' science courses? Acceptable? Or do I really need to take a BCPM science course?

Atmospheric and Water Science
A&O SCI 101 - Fundamentals of Atmospheric Dynamics and Thermodynamics
A&O SCI 103 - Physical Oceanography
A&O SCI M105 - Introduction to Chemical Oceanography
A&O SCI 130 - California's Ocean
E&S SCI C132 - Hydrogeology
E&S SCI 153 - Oceans and Atmospheres
GEOG 105 - Hydrology
Climate Science
A&O SCI 102 - Climate Change and Climate Modeling
GEOG 102 - Tropical Climatology
GEOG 104 - Climatology
GEOG M106 - Applied Climatology
Earth Science
E&S SCI C113 - Biological and Environmental Geochemistry
E&S SCI 119 - Continental Drift and Plate Tectonics
E&S SCI 135 - Introduction to Applied Geophysics
E&S SCI 139 - Engineering and Environmental Geology
E&S SCI 150 - Remote Sensing for Earth Sciences
GEOG 100 - Principles of Geomorphology
GEOG 101 - Coastal Geomorphology
GEOG M127 - Soils and Environment
Ecology and Conservation Biology
EE BIOL 100 - Introduction to Ecology and Behavior
EE BIOL 109 - Introduction to Marine Science
EE BIOL 151A - Tropical Ecology
EE BIOL 154 - California Ecosystems
ENVIRON 121 - Conservation of Biodiversity or EE BIOL 116 - Conservation Biology
GEOG 111 - Forest Ecosystems
GEOG 113 - Humid Tropics

i'm not familiar with the numbering system at UCLA, but i think they are probably upper division classes. but to help your case even further yes you should minor in environmental health especially if it involves taking more classes that can be directly applied to the body such as biochemistry as you mentioned. Don't go out of your way, but if you have time in your schedule also take genetics and cell biology at UCLA those are the type of courses that show you can handle med school like courses.

 

[casillas]

or microbiology or physiology

 

[CaliGirl14]

Anything that has 100+ is an upper division course. I was just wondering if they were considered science courses, because apparently environmental classes..aren't?

No worries, I'm not going to go out of my way because my major requires you to minor in one of those fields, so taking biochemistry will be fine. 🙂

 

[chman]

Wow. That's a bit weird, and somewhat bothersome. So is Enviro Science just a random major? It's not considered 'sciency' enough for med school, but it's not a non-science major either. The major requires you to take your average BCPM classes, and when it comes to upper division courses, you must take enviro classes. Meh, this is not turning out well.

The major requires around 10-12 courses (72-74 units), and it also requires you to minor in either Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences, Conservation Biology, Environmental Engineering, Environmental Health, Environmental Systems and Society, Geography/Environmental Studies,Geology, or. Geophysics and Planetary Physics.
So, obviously I'd want to major in something that includes upper division 'science' classes...which leaves me to minor in: Environmental Health (Chemistry, Biochemistry, Epidemiology); 6 courses (22-24units).

18ish courses.(94-98units). 6 quarters. Do-able..right?


So...I think I'll be okay.

I don't think I need to be too concerned about explaining why I chose to major in Environmental Science besides the fact that I love the environment.

It is still considered science, just not biology. I am just going off of what I saw on the University of Washington website. I wouldn't worry about it, and if you are interested in it it should make for an interesting conversation with admissions for med school. All I really wanted to point out, like with all majors, you should just be prepared to explain how you thought this major would prepare you for the future etc. I know that I will be ready to answer that for may major. I also remembered this major being a lot of credits so I just wanted to make sure you know how to fit everything in, which it sounds like you do. All this can get pretty complicated transferring from a cc.

P.S, the environmental health minor sounds like a good way to tie things together.

 

[CaliGirl14]

[= Thank you for the concern! I know I will have plenty of positive things to say when interviews roll around!

Oh, what are you majoring in? [=

 

[chman]

[= Thank you for the concern! I know I will have plenty of positive things to say when interviews roll around!

Oh, what are you majoring in? [=

I'm still on the fence between public health and English. Who knows though, that could change.

 

[CaliGirl14]

I'm still on the fence between public health and English. Who knows though, that could change.

Ohhhh, English! 👍

I would love to major in English, but I can't write well P:
That...and English is, what, my 3rd language?

 

[CaliGirl14]

If I get a non-science major, I'll need to take my BCPM at my four year university. However, I see a problem in doing well on your MCAT if you're going to take it during your third year, because most applicants have already taken their BCPM during their first two years.

You're stuck in a hole no matter what you do.

 

[chman]

If I get a non-science major, I'll need to take my BCPM at my four year university. However, I see a problem in doing well on your MCAT if you're going to take it during your third year, because most applicants have already taken their BCPM during their first two years.

You're stuck in a hole no matter what you do.

I am going to take the MCAT the year after I graduate for that reason, or maybe senior year. I have to wait an extra year, but I think it will make more sense.

 

[CaliGirl14]

I think taking the MCAT the spring semester of my senior year, and applying that summer will be the best thing to do in my situation.

 

[chman]

I think taking the MCAT the spring semester of my senior year, and applying that summer will be the best thing to do in my situation.

You might want to try and take it in the winter so you have time for a retake.

 

[riverjib]

You can't compare an amazing recommendation from Place A with a ****ty recommendation from Place B, and say that therefore there's no disadvantage at all to a recommendation from place A. There can still be a disadvantage but what you did with that professor far outweighs said disadvantage.

Disadvantage does not mean "throw it in the trash", it just means that two equivalent recommendations, one signed by a professor from a CC and one signed by a professor from a university, will be given different weights. If you had the exact same letter of recommendation from the Dean of Harvard, trust me, it would be given more weight.

I completely agree. My pre-med adviser was initially convinced that I needed ALL of my LORs from my current institution. But he read the one from the aformentioned chemistry chairman who taught me and mentored me for two years, and saw me face adversity and push through it. I met my fiance in his freshman chemistry class, and since I have nobody to give me away at my wedding, we asked him to do it. Nobody will ever know me better and write a better recommendation than he did.

However, I do have one LOR from the Chancellor of CUNY (who has only written a handful of letters for the 300,000+ students at a time in 23 CUNY schools), one from the former president of SUNY Stony Brook, and one from the director of my undergraduate major. I know that the 2-3 nice (but not especially personal) paragraphs from any of them who know only that I'm a good student still might speaks volumes more than the beautiful letter I got from my *real* mentor. That's why I think it's important to have a few letters. It's good to get one from somehow who knows you and cares enough to spend time writing your LOR, and another from someone who is *important* enough to have his/her secretary write it 🙂