Community College Prereqs and Grades

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nurkin7

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I am a 35-year old married mom, just started my prereqs at a Chicago community college.
My advisor tells me that I better get all A's in all of my prereq classes if I want even the worst medical school to take my application seriously, even if my non-science undergrad GPA is a 3.8. Is this true? What if I get an A and a B this semester? Is it really worse than an A and a W? It is my first semester back to school after 10+ years and I'm struggling just to adjust to the crazy tempo schedule. I really don't want to drop any of the classes I'm taking because I'm so late in the game already.

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I am a 35-year old married mom, just started my prereqs at a Chicago community college.
My advisor tells me that I better get all A's in all of my prereq classes if I want even the worst medical school to take my application seriously, even if my non-science undergrad GPA is a 3.8. Is this true? What if I get an A and a B this semester? Is it really worse than an A and a W? It is my first semester back to school after 10+ years and I'm struggling just to adjust to the crazy tempo schedule. I really don't want to drop any of the classes I'm taking because I'm so late in the game already.

I don't know if that's totally true. I do know that if you can't make good grades in community college, you are not going to survive in med school. We just finished our first course and not without attrition. The stuff we used to cover in a semester, we cover in a week or less and are expected to know a lot more details. My guess from the application process is that as long as your numbers look good overall you'll have a chance regardless of a blip here or there, but I would advise trying to push yourself to do well because it's not going to get any easier once you're in. (And frankly, I think a B looks a lot better than an unjustified W.) Good luck!
 
I, too, think that a B is better than a W, especially if it's your first semester. But try to get A's in all other classes you take.
 
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I, too, think that a B is better than a W, especially if it's your first semester. But try to get A's in all other classes you take.
+1
In general, I don't think you absolutely have to get all As at a community college "to be considered even at the worst medical college", but it's true that, since community colleges are generally considered as less rigorous, you're expected to get higher grades than at a 4-year college.
You can also apply to DO schools which are more lenient on community college classes than MD schools.

I also agree with lovesfall's point that you should keep in mind the much heavier course load in med school, but with qualifications: I think that, considering that you've been out of school for 10+ years, you should ease yourself into the studying first, and then increase your course load to prove adcoms you can handle medical school. Good luck!
 
Your advisor is a *****. Check out the MSAR and you can see what the avg GPA is for accepted students. This, a B here and there isn't going to kill you.

With a good MCAT and lost of ECs, you get into a good number of schools.


I am a 35-year old married mom, just started my prereqs at a Chicago community college.
My advisor tells me that I better get all A's in all of my prereq classes if I want even the worst medical school to take my application seriously, even if my non-science undergrad GPA is a 3.8. Is this true? What if I get an A and a B this semester? Is it really worse than an A and a W? It is my first semester back to school after 10+ years and I'm struggling just to adjust to the crazy tempo schedule. I really don't want to drop any of the classes I'm taking because I'm so late in the game already.
 
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Your advisor is a *****. Check out the MSAR and you can see what the avg GPA is for accepted students. This, a B here and there isn't going to kill you.

With a good MCAT and lost of ECs, you get into a good number of schools.

+1.....33 yr old dad starting DO school next year.....3.1cgpa, 3.7sgpa...all my prereqs were community college

You can pm me if you have any questions but your advisor is clueless
 
+1
In general, I don't think you absolutely have to get all As at a community college "to be considered even at the worst medical college", but it's true that, since community colleges are generally considered as less rigorous, you're expected to get higher grades than at a 4-year college.
You can also apply to DO schools which are more lenient on community college classes than MD schools.

I also agree with lovesfall's point that you should keep in mind the much heavier course load in med school, but with qualifications: I think that, considering that you've been out of school for 10+ years, you should ease yourself into the studying first, and then increase your course load to prove adcoms you can handle medical school. Good luck!


The advisor is a *****.

Why are "community colleges generally considered less rigorous?" Is this something people from universities create to feel better about their education. Does paying 5 times more for your classes make you smarter? I don't think so. I saved about $8500 by taking my classes at a community college and learned more than I would have at the university. Is there a study comparing the difficulty anyone could reference. The REAL difference between classes is the instructor, not the school. The community college bias is based purely on ignorance.
 
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Why are "community colleges generally considered less rigorous?" Is this something people from universities create to feel better about their education. Does paying 5 times more for your classes make you smarter? I don't think so. I saved about $8500 by taking my classes at a community college and learned more than I would have at the university. Is there a study comparing the difficulty anyone could reference. The REAL difference between classes is the instructor, not the school. The community college bias is based purely on ignorance.
I may agree with you on this (at least to some extent), but the fact is, it doesn't matter why community colleges are considered as less rigorous, they just are (at most med schools, some DO schools may be an exception). Applicants are not the ones who make the rules of the game, they just have to play by the rules.
 
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I may agree with you on this (at least to some extent), but the fact is, it doesn't matter why community colleges are considered as less rigorous, they just are (at most med schools, some DO schools may be an exception). Applicants are not the ones who make the rules of the game, they just have to play by the rules.

It is unfortanuate they are perceived as less rigorous. I am proud to have taken all my classes at the community college. From my experience interviewing at four schools, it was never brought up. I only applied to D.O. schools. I received a 30 on my MCAT. Unless you're looking to get into one of the snobbish schools that believe themself to better better than all others I don't think it is worth worrying to much about cc vs university. The real equilizer is the MCAT. Get a 30+ on your MCAT and you take care of many many problems associated with undergraduate courses.
 
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It is unfortanuate they are perceived as less rigorous. I am proud to have taken all my classes at the community college. From my experience interviewing at four schools, it was never brought up. I only applied to D.O. schools. I received a 30 on my MCAT. Unless you're looking to get into one of the snobbish schools that believe themself to better better than all others I don't think it is worth worrying to much about cc vs university. The real equilizer is the MCAT. Get a 30+ on your MCAT and you take care of many many problems associated with undergraduate courses.
Congrats on your successful application cycle!
I agree that it depends on the schools you're applying to. I would also like to emphasize that your education is evaluated in the context of your whole application - MCAT score, activities and achievements, life experiences.

To all future applicants: just do your best in whatever it is you're doing. If community college is the only option you have, do your best at your community college. Do your best at all the other activities you do. Because, when push comes to shove, *everything* matters.
 
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+1.....33 yr old dad starting DO school next year.....3.1cgpa, 3.7sgpa...all my prereqs were community college

You can pm me if you have any questions but your advisor is clueless
Your advisor sounds misinformed! I'm in the same boat as sb247. I'm a 33 y.o. dad with 4 kids starting DO school next year. I loved my CC classes! I learned so much because my teachers enjoyed teaching, plus I saved a ton of money! As far as DO schools go, an accredited CC class is just as valid as a snooty university class. Credits are credits.
 
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You have to get A's no matter where you go... Or get almost all A's. The truth is that your GPA matters. You need to show that you can ace these classes and take a heavy science course load no matter what your age and circumstances.

I'd cut myself some slack, though, since this is your first semester back. Do what you can to get A's in these two classes. As you get back in the groove, you can add on the other hoop-jumping that is required of us (volunteering, tutoring, MCAT studying, research, activities, etc).

Also, I loved my CC classes. Those were some of the best instructors I've ever had. It's sad that there is a bias out there but it exists. It's the same BS that certain people have about MD vs DO. Knowing physicians with both degrees, as a colleague and as a patient I have not seen a difference in their abilities based on the letters after their names. But people are biased. What can you do?
 
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I am a 35-year old married mom, just started my prereqs at a Chicago community college.
My advisor tells me that I better get all A's in all of my prereq classes if I want even the worst medical school to take my application seriously, even if my non-science undergrad GPA is a 3.8. Is this true? What if I get an A and a B this semester? Is it really worse than an A and a W? It is my first semester back to school after 10+ years and I'm struggling just to adjust to the crazy tempo schedule. I really don't want to drop any of the classes I'm taking because I'm so late in the game already.

Your advisor really should've said something along the lines of you better make sure you maintain a sGPA of 3.5+ and a cGPA of at least 3.6-3.7+. I would only drop a class if you're going to get anything less than a B, C's/D's will really tank your gpa. The real test comes when you attend a 4 year and have to continue a strong trend in grades, hence some medical schools like to see some upper lvl. bio courses completed at the 4 yr to show you can 'hang' with the big boys/girls. Just do your best to go to a great 4 yr as one with strong resources will make getting into medical school less of a headache.
 
Your advisor really should've said something along the lines of you better make sure you maintain a sGPA of 3.5+ and a cGPA of at least 3.6-3.7+. I would only drop a class if you're going to get anything less than a B, C's/D's will really tank your gpa. The real test comes when you attend a 4 year and have to continue a strong trend in grades, hence some medical schools like to see some upper lvl. bio courses completed at the 4 yr to show you can 'hang' with the big boys/girls. Just do your best to go to a great 4 yr as one with strong resources will make getting into medical school less of a headache.

Since I already completed my BA, I think that I only need to take the prereqs - Bio I&II, Chem I&II, Orgo I&II and Physics I&II...not sure if there will be others after the MCAT is changed in 2015.
My cGPA is pretty high, but I think that these science classes will be looked at with a magnifying glass since I've been out of school for so long.....
 
Since I already completed my BA, I think that I only need to take the prereqs - Bio I&II, Chem I&II, Orgo I&II and Physics I&II...not sure if there will be others after the MCAT is changed in 2015.
My cGPA is pretty high, but I think that these science classes will be looked at with a magnifying glass since I've been out of school for so long.....
You are right, it will be, but that doesn't mean a B here or there will kill you, especially since you are starting with such a strong GPA. I had a GPA over 3.8 before I started my pre reqs, and had managed to decrease that to a 3.71 cGPA 3.60 sGPA (in part due to taking calc II and III when not intending to apply to med school) by the time I applied, and was accepted. Not ideal at all, but it wasn't a death sentence. Do your best, if you are heading for anything less than a 3.5 in a semester consider dropping, but don't litter your record with Ws and don't sweat too much and you will be fine. Good luck!
 
I may agree with you on this (at least to some extent), but the fact is, it doesn't matter why community colleges are considered as less rigorous, they just are (at most med schools, some DO schools may be an exception). Applicants are not the ones who make the rules of the game, they just have to play by the rules.

Do you have any quantifiable proof that this is the case, or are you simply parroting that line because people on SDN believe it?

Show me any med school besides the ones that blatantly do not accept CC credits that has specifically discriminated against CC students that have done comparably to university students in terms of grades (and have comparable MCAT scores). Show me anything more than anecdotal evidence ("my bro took CC classes and he said they were easy") and "he-said she-said" statements from pre-meds and know-nothing advisers.

Seriously, the notion that CCs are easy and thus med schools want CC students with all As has been beaten to death here, and yet I haven't seen any hardline statistics to back it up. I welcome anybody who can. Because you're all going into evidence-based professions. So provide some good evidence.
 
I would echo what several other posters have said: if the rest of your application is solid, including a good MCAT score, taking pre-reqs at CC should not be an issue. I took almost all of mine at CC because it was really the only feasible option with my work schedule (and, without exception, my CC professors were amazingly accommodating). I've also taken a ton of non-pre-req CC courses, and I had Bs in some of those. This was balanced out with a strong performance in undergrad (which it sounds like you have, OP) and a 35+ MCAT. I'm applying this cycle and have an acceptance at an MD school that explicitly cautions against taking too many pre-reqs at CC, and an interview at another that explicitly states they frown upon CC courses and view them as less rigorous (I almost didn't apply there for that reason, but am glad I did). Obviously this is just my experience, but it goes to show that it is possible to get into an MD school with a lot of CC coursework and even, gasp, some Bs.
 
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Do you have any quantifiable proof that this is the case, or are you simply parroting that line because people on SDN believe it?

Show me any med school besides the ones that blatantly do not accept CC credits that has specifically discriminated against CC students that have done comparably to university students in terms of grades (and have comparable MCAT scores). Show me anything more than anecdotal evidence ("my bro took CC classes and he said they were easy") and "he-said she-said" statements from pre-meds and know-nothing advisers.

Seriously, the notion that CCs are easy and thus med schools want CC students with all As has been beaten to death here, and yet I haven't seen any hardline statistics to back it up. I welcome anybody who can. Because you're all going into evidence-based professions. So provide some good evidence.
No, I don't have a quantifiable proof, and I don't even think it exists (i.e. I don't think anybody collected and analyzed the data regarding acceptance of CC students). Do you have any quantifiable proof to the contrary? ;)
But, in any case, I can tell you that, besides the schools that flat out don't accept CC credits, there are schools that explicitly state that they don't recommend taking CC classes and schools that take CC credits with reservations (which is one of the reasons to take higher level science classes at a 4-year university) - just check out individual school's requirements web pages. On top of that, there are schools that don't say it out loud but still discriminate against CC classes. Now, even some top MD schools accept CC credits, but it doesn't negate the fact that many schools discriminate against CC.

And no, I'm not parroting what people say on SDN. Or maybe I do - but only to the extent that I'm "parroting" something that faculty adcoms have said here (with a notable exception of goro, but I have already mentioned that DO schools are more lenient on CC credits than MD schools). Look, the truth is, adcoms take into account not only the difference between CC and 4-year colleges, but also the difference between different 4-year colleges - some schools are seen as more difficult than others, and therefore students who, say, have the same GPA but come from different schools are viewed differently. I mean, do you really think adcoms will see a GPA of 3.8 from MIT and a GPA of 3.8 from a CC equally? They won't even see MIT and whatever state university equally.

There is a lot of subjectivity, randomness and unfairness in the medical school application process. It's just the way it is. All we can do is try our best given the situation each of us is in. The good news is, even from my own experience I can tell that CC credits are viewed in the context of your whole application, i.e. at the schools that do accept CC credits they will probably not tank your application if everything else is solid (with my combination of a foreign undergrad degree, a US grad degree and CC credits to fulfill med school requirements while working full time - but also with a high MCAT score, a ton of high quality biomedical research and a lot of clinically relevant experience/volunteering/teaching/community outreach etc + an interesting life story and some interesting hobbies, I got 7 IIs from top 25 MD schools, including 2 Ivies). The bad news is, when push comes to shove, i.e. if there is a choice between an applicant with CC credits and an applicant who took all of his/her classes at a 4-year university with comparable accomplishments, I'm afraid, the choice is not going to be in favor of the applicant with CC credits (eg., in my case, while I'm ecstatic about interviewing at such great schools, I don't know if I'm going to get accepted anywhere at all because I'm interviewing with all the Ivy, Berkeley, Duke etc undergraduates who look down on my name tag). But this is just the way it is, whether we like it or not.
(and, by the way, before anyone accuses me of elitism, I applied widely, but didn't receive a single II from a "lower ranked" school)
 
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Just curious, what Chicago CC are you at? I will be going to one of them to complete my prerequisites after I finish my BS.
 
I am a 35-year old married mom, just started my prereqs at a Chicago community college.
My advisor tells me that I better get all A's in all of my prereq classes if I want even the worst medical school to take my application seriously, even if my non-science undergrad GPA is a 3.8. Is this true? What if I get an A and a B this semester? Is it really worse than an A and a W? It is my first semester back to school after 10+ years and I'm struggling just to adjust to the crazy tempo schedule. I really don't want to drop any of the classes I'm taking because I'm so late in the game already.
I did 100% post-bacc at a community college coming from a low undergraduate GPA. I've had a few invites to Osteopathic colleges despite getting B's in Chemistry. There are only a few colleges that don't accept CC credits, but if the college you apply to says it does, they are not tricking you. They will consider you, but you do need to get an MCAT score that proves you didn't just get A's and B's because you were in an easy environment.
 
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I'm currently enrolled in community college classes and have taken courses at cc in the past. This is my opinion on things - not supported by any data - just my casual observations

The courses at community college haven't seemed to be any less rigorous than at most 4 year universities - I say most because there are definitely universities who's sciences classes are more intense. As someone previously mentioned, this is most highly dependent upon the professor rather than course content as different teachers evaluate students in very unique ways.

Also, many professors at cc's teach or have taught at 4 year universities. Not sure how that translates into their teaching style/expectations at 2 year schools.


The biggest difference I've seem between cc's and 4 year universities is the range of student interest in the class. For example, I think there are many more students at cc's that have no interest in being enrolled at college at all. I have seen more students that don't have a command of the English language, those who have been dismissed from other universities, those who are enrolled simply to satisfy their parents etc.

This is not to say that all of the students here fit this mold, just I have seen more than at 4 year schools. And the students at cc's that don't take the class seriously can seriously affect the curve of a class so that those students whom put in any significant effort can achieve higher grades.
 
A "B" in a class is > "W," in my opinion. Few of us have a perfect GPA. Personally, I would only choose a "W" as a last resort (instead of "D" or "F," for example). But the statistics on the MSAR don't lie: people get in with less-than-4.0's all the time.

If a community college is the best option you've got (and there are many of us non-traditionals who are in the same boat), then do awesome there. Don't get caught up in apathy; my experience has been similar to MedPhys2MD's - some of the students at CCs seem less motivated than at the 4-year institutions. Now, don't get me wrong: there's plenty of apathy at 4-year universities, too. The point is to do the best you can, wherever you are. And don't be sucked into doing "just enough" to get by...remember, you'll need that info in a few years' time in med school. Best of luck to you!
 
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