compensation ratio thoughts

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okayplayer said:
Give up whatever your shift is that day to the person whose weekend you took. We had a peel off system so it could be an early or late day depending...
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ok that makes sense. So the guy whose weekend you took is now working for you on Monday. Do you pay him, or is this already baked into the amount you were paid for the weekend?
 
dhb said:
You always answer me like i'm ******ed but ok...
2 x 10h days is as i said not much less than a 24. (Specially when you have a short pre-call day)
My point is sometimes having a day off is valuable. And at my hospital i almost never work at night (some of my collegues do though).
When you are in a relatively large group +- 15 you have 2 call a month with a high chance of sleeping the whole night with a day off post call. In that setting it's hard to cut back 25 or 50% pay for non call takers.
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If you get beat up on call and are inhouse 24 hours it can kind of ruin the postcall day, that’s all.
 
Arch Guillotti said:
ok that makes sense. So the guy whose weekend you took is now working for you on Monday. Do you pay him, or is this already baked into the amount you were paid for the weekend?
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That person will just earn what they earn (production) for the Monday shift they picked up in the trade. Usually no extra side $ exchanged on either side.
 
Arch Guillotti said:
If you get beat up on call and are inhouse 24 hours it can kind of ruin the postcall day, that’s all.
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Well i know that too surprisingly.
What i'm saying is that if call is benign and infrequent with a short pre call and post call off it's hard to justify a big loss of income to non call takers.
 
okayplayer said:
That person will just earn what they earn (production) for the Monday shift they picked up in the trade. Usually no extra side $ exchanged on either side.
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Thanks, I am not used to this model of compensation. Guessing you sit your own cases.
 
We’re a big group/AMC looking at restructuring because we have a number of older guys who want to drop call frequency or altogether. Currently straight salary, and we also currently have a system for buying/selling call internally. It’s worked for awhile, but with so many sites and types of call, cases, etc; that system needs reworking.

Not sure what’s going happen but sounds like we may move to a lower base pay with compensation per call. Can't do productivity based as our hospitals vary widely with case variety and payer mix.
 
We have one person who no longer takes weekend calls. When the computer-generated call schedule comes out hers immediately go on a google spreadsheet and are swiped up quickly. We’ve made them worth an amount preset to make people want to take them and that amount is deducted from her pay.
 
Twiggidy said:
Pretty much
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twig.jpg
 
fakin' the funk said:
And what's the bonus for night and weekend? 25% more? 40% more?
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Depends on the night/weekend work. If it’s straight OR coverage and you get to bill the cases, I argue barely any bump, maybe just a little token just for being available. In House OB coverage? Heavy bump
 
Shimmy8 said:
We’re a big group/AMC looking at restructuring because we have a number of older guys who want to drop call frequency or altogether. Currently straight salary, and we also currently have a system for buying/selling call internally. It’s worked for awhile, but with so many sites and types of call, cases, etc; that system needs reworking.

Not sure what’s going happen but sounds like we may move to a lower base pay with compensation per call. Can't do productivity based as our hospitals vary widely with case variety and payer mix.
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similar.

I like the free market approach. Put it up for grabs and pay your way out. Call at different places is different in terms of intensity and productivity which means it’s hard to compare one group to another’s group compensation for call unless caseload and responsibilities over night are very similar.

our group doesn’t have a free market but rather a menu for what each shift costs. we currently have a problem where the rate for weekend calls or other late shifts is too low and it’s impossible to get rid of anything. Almost like we need a free market to recalibrate the rates.

I’m 100% against giving the older partner too sweet of a deal just because of his service over the years. Only creates problems down the road as others have hinted at. Better to err on the side of a high price for calls than too low of a price or everyone will be positioning to get out of call.
 
anes121508 said:
similar.

I like the free market approach. Put it up for grabs and pay your way out. Call at different places is different in terms of intensity and productivity which means it’s hard to compare one group to another’s group compensation for call unless caseload and responsibilities over night are very similar.

our group doesn’t have a free market but rather a menu for what each shift costs. we currently have a problem where the rate for weekend calls or other late shifts is too low and it’s impossible to get rid of anything. Almost like we need a free market to recalibrate the rates.

I’m 100% against giving the older partner too sweet of a deal just because of his service over the years. Only creates problems down the road as others have hinted at. Better to err on the side of a high price for calls than too low of a price or everyone will be positioning to get out of call.
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Depends on what the compensation is based on.
If productivity, then you run into trouble some of the west coast people were asking. How do you handle the post call day, productivity?
If you’re on salary, then how do you account for post call day hours, do you pay or do you not pay?

Anyway, as long as the group agree on something, then it’s the way it will be.

We thought of it as
Sun-Thurs extra 8 hour pay.
Friday extra 16
Saturday 24

But then you will inevitably have someone scream, Thursday call gets long weekend, shouldn’t that count less? Or Sunday is important to me, why only extra 8.... whatever people can think of to get paid more.....


No prefect fair system
 
IMGASMD said:
If productivity, then you run into trouble some of the west coast people were asking. How do you handle the post call day, productivity?
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Typically the call guy will get the first pick of rooms/lineups. Thus the call guy not only will do more cases, but will also be doing the highest unit value cases. This offsets (or more than offsets) the post-call day.
 
SaltyDog said:
Typically the call guy will get the first pick of rooms/lineups. Thus the call guy not only will do more cases, but will also be doing the highest unit value cases. This offsets (or more than offsets) the post-call day.
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Then your post call day isn’t off, or I guess you have the choice how much you want to work or if you have a short day.

How the system “suppose” to work isnt always prefect. I am sure there are people, perhaps young and hungry, who will make a killing on their post call day. Also there are older folks who will not be as aggressive.

I’ve worked with people who are very anal about their post call day. They will cry a river if you ask them to stay even for a quick room.
 
IMGASMD said:
Then your post call day isn’t off, or I guess you have the choice how much you want to work or if you have a short day.
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My experience is that your post call is either scheduled off, or you will have a very high number in the peel and have a short day. The young and hungry may trade spots with the old and lazy if desired.
 
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