Competition vs. Community?

[sitthakim]

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Does anyone have any thoughts/insight on the community of students in DO programs? Is it more supportive or competitive? I have been to a couple highly competitive schools, and that just isn't an environment I work well in. It's just not how I interact with the world. I have met pre-allopath folks who I am sure are very smart and going places, but they are NOT people with whom I would EVER want to be in school. While I understand that there is always going to be a certain amount of competition in the medical world, I would really like to find a school where I feel like my peers are my support system and not my enemies for research/grades/etc. I mean come on, med school is stressful enough, why make it worse?

Thoughts? Suggestions? Schools to look into?

 

[Sandlot13]

from what i know, a lot of DO schools seem to lean towards community rather than competition. I agree with the fact that it should be a community based attitude... its hard enough as it is to function throughout those years of med school, but with the added stress of competition??? please leave your egos and attitudes on the fields and courts in my opinion 🙂

 

[RySerr21]

Does anyone have any thoughts/insight on the community of students in DO programs? Is it more supportive or competitive? I have been to a couple highly competitive schools, and that just isn't an environment I work well in. It's just not how I interact with the world. I have met pre-allopath folks who I am sure are very smart and going places, but they are NOT people with whom I would EVER want to be in school. While I understand that there is always going to be a certain amount of competition in the medical world, I would really like to find a school where I feel like my peers are my support system and not my enemies for research/grades/etc. I mean come on, med school is stressful enough, why make it worse?

Thoughts? Suggestions? Schools to look into?

I feel the exact same way as you, and hands down, no doubt, the absolute winner is Western. You will be hard pressed to find another medical school community that is more supportive, collaborative, welcoming, warm, etc. etc. It really blew me away If thats what you want, I highly suggest you apply there.

I felt the same type of enviornment at Des Moines. Des Moines even has student run tutoring services where 2nd years volunteer their time to tutor first years in courses like anatomy. THats pretty bad ass if you ask me.


One thing I dont really like though is that at both DO interview days I have been to a lot of the students have talked negatively about the MD schools as far as the competitivenes and "lack of community." While you will most definitely find some MD schools that are cut-throat competitive (UCSD comes to mind), there are also MD schools that have this same type of cooperative enviornment that you find at many DO schools. I know because when I applied to MD schools taht was a HUGE factor, and i did my best to pick schools that I felt could offer me this. ONe thing I have always said is that if I go to an interview and I get the feeling that a school is cut throat competitive, there is no way i wold ever attend, i dont care if its Harvard.


I have interviewed at Loyola and at Dartmouth for the MD schools and those seem like very community-oriented collaborative environments as well. At dartmouth, their class size is only about 70 students, and for each students birthday they go celebrate as a class, whether it be dinner, hiking, or smoething cool like that. So, thats pretty awesome.
At loyola my tour guide was like "yea here its very cooperative, students help each other out, yadda yadda yadda and thats pretty unique because at a lot of schools its very competitive." And i started laughing and was like "haha this is so funny b/c every school i have visited has said the same thing. I am still waiting to interveiw at one of the cut throat competitive schools, everyone is always pointing out the "other school".... haha." Although I am starting to think I just did a good job of applying to schools I thought I would like (aka student environment).


My main point is that if you do your research you will hear by word of mouth which schools are more cut throat and which are more collaborative environments. Both types exist for MD and DO programs.
good luck

 

[andexterouss]

Does anyone have any thoughts/insight on the community of students in DO programs? Is it more supportive or competitive? I have been to a couple highly competitive schools, and that just isn't an environment I work well in. It's just not how I interact with the world. I have met pre-allopath folks who I am sure are very smart and going places, but they are NOT people with whom I would EVER want to be in school. While I understand that there is always going to be a certain amount of competition in the medical world, I would really like to find a school where I feel like my peers are my support system and not my enemies for research/grades/etc. I mean come on, med school is stressful enough, why make it worse?

Thoughts? Suggestions? Schools to look into?

You should look into UMDNJ-SOM. NO GPAs and no class rank. They have tutoring going on, small student body and give you no incentive to be competitive. Except if you are on a personal quest of course.

 

[JamesBond15]

At loyola my tour guide was like "yea here its very cooperative, students help each other out, yadda yadda yadda and thats pretty unique because at a lot of schools its very competitive." And i started laughing and was like "haha this is so funny b/c every school i have visited has said the same thing. I am still waiting to interveiw at one of the cut throat competitive schools, everyone is always pointing out the "other school".... haha." Although I am starting to think I just did a good job of applying to schools I thought I would like (aka student environment).

hehe, that is what I keep on think. I am starting to thinking maybe all the schools have cooperative communities.

 

[MossPoh]

You should look into UMDNJ-SOM. NO GPAs and no class rank. They have tutoring going on, small student body and give you no incentive to be competitive. Except if you are on a personal quest of course.

Is it no class rank, or "no class rank"? I've never heard of a school that actually doesn't keep a class rank since they usually use it for letters later on. It is just not something you know of and never really find out, so the competition is reduced.

Most of the DO schools I've been to are very laid back. You'll always encounter gunners, but in fewer numbers. MD schools are variable. I'd be truly surprised to see a community atmosphere in some of the top schools. It is just so hard to shut off that instinct all of a sudden. My main allopathic school to compare to is Florida State. They are about as much of a community as you can get. There is always drama, but I've never seen or heard of anyone being too cut throat.

 

[RySerr21]

Is it no class rank, or "no class rank"? I've never heard of a school that actually doesn't keep a class rank since they usually use it for letters later on. It is just not something you know of and never really find out, so the competition is reduced.

There are no class ranks at Dartmouth, and all courses are hnors/pass/fail. How would you even keep a class rank if your graded pass fail?

 

[MossPoh]

There are no class ranks at Dartmouth, and all courses are hnors/pass/fail. How would you even keep a class rank if your graded pass fail?

Many keep percentages still. There are very few schools that do true pass/fail. Many have stupid layouts like High honors/honors/pass/fail. I'm not saying that there aren't any schools that DON'T truly have no class rank, but many have a kind of covert one where they keep track of your percentages behind closed doors. Class rank along with board scores and letters are all pretty important for residency purposes. In addition, many places nominate you for AOA and what not based on class performance as well as prominence and level of activity (butt kissing) within the class.

 

[RySerr21]

Many keep percentages still. There are very few schools that do true pass/fail. Many have stupid layouts like High honors/honors/pass/fail. I'm not saying that there aren't any schools that DON'T truly have no class rank, but many have a kind of covert one where they keep track of your percentages behind closed doors. Class rank along with board scores and letters are all pretty important for residency purposes. In addition, many places nominate you for AOA and what not based on class performance as well as prominence and level of activity (butt kissing) within the class.

Ooo. i see what you are saying. i misunderstood.

 

[Cp22kjer]

I think there will be something I can learn from every one of my classmates. I'd like to think while in medical school, the competition can be 2nd to classmates supporting each other. This assuredly will not be the case for every student but I pray the majority will support such action.

 

[MossPoh]

I think there will be something I can learn from every one of my classmates. I'd like to think while in medical school, the competition can be 2nd to classmates supporting each other. This assuredly will not be the case for every student but I pray the majority will support such action.

Not me. I am omnipotent.

 

[anon y mous]

I feel the exact same way as you, and hands down, no doubt, the absolute winner is Western. You will be hard pressed to find another medical school community that is more supportive, collaborative, welcoming, warm, etc. etc. It really blew me away If thats what you want, I highly suggest you apply there.

I felt the same type of enviornment at Des Moines. Des Moines even has student run tutoring services where 2nd years volunteer their time to tutor first years in courses like anatomy. THats pretty bad ass if you ask me.


One thing I dont really like though is that at both DO interview days I have been to a lot of the students have talked negatively about the MD schools as far as the competitivenes and "lack of community." While you will most definitely find some MD schools that are cut-throat competitive (UCSD comes to mind), there are also MD schools that have this same type of cooperative enviornment that you find at many DO schools. I know because when I applied to MD schools taht was a HUGE factor, and i did my best to pick schools that I felt could offer me this. ONe thing I have always said is that if I go to an interview and I get the feeling that a school is cut throat competitive, there is no way i wold ever attend, i dont care if its Harvard.


I have interviewed at Loyola and at Dartmouth for the MD schools and those seem like very community-oriented collaborative environments as well. At dartmouth, their class size is only about 70 students, and for each students birthday they go celebrate as a class, whether it be dinner, hiking, or smoething cool like that. So, thats pretty awesome.
At loyola my tour guide was like "yea here its very cooperative, students help each other out, yadda yadda yadda and thats pretty unique because at a lot of schools its very competitive." And i started laughing and was like "haha this is so funny b/c every school i have visited has said the same thing. I am still waiting to interveiw at one of the cut throat competitive schools, everyone is always pointing out the "other school".... haha." Although I am starting to think I just did a good job of applying to schools I thought I would like (aka student environment).


My main point is that if you do your research you will hear by word of mouth which schools are more cut throat and which are more collaborative environments. Both types exist for MD and DO programs.
good luck

Just curious why you withdrew from NOVA?

 

[RySerr21]

Just curious why you withdrew from NOVA?

Nothing against NSU, I just know that I am VERY happy with both Western and DMU. Those were my top choices from the very beginning, and I know I will end up at one of those if I do end up at a DO school...so no point in me payin the money and missing more school to fly out to a school I don't think I'll end up at. I've heard some good things about it tho.

 

[DrMattOglesby]

don't be so quick to lump all pre-allopathic students in one category. I was just at Creighton University in Omaha Nebraska...and that had to be one of the most chilled atmospheres of all the schools I have visited.
Of course, that fact is influenced in the way they evaluate students--its all P/F or Honors (top 10%).

 

[andexterouss]

Is it no class rank, or "no class rank"? I've never heard of a school that actually doesn't keep a class rank since they usually use it for letters later on. It is just not something you know of and never really find out, so the competition is reduced.

Most of the DO schools I've been to are very laid back. You'll always encounter gunners, but in fewer numbers. MD schools are variable. I'd be truly surprised to see a community atmosphere in some of the top schools. It is just so hard to shut off that instinct all of a sudden. My main allopathic school to compare to is Florida State. They are about as much of a community as you can get. There is always drama, but I've never seen or heard of anyone being too cut throat.

The 2nd year students that gave us a tour stated "no class rank". You have honors, high pass and pass. In fact, I specifically asked what the Dean's Letter says. They said it just gives a summary of your school work. Basically, it states "John Doe got a high pass in Histology, honors in anatomy" etc. No rank is assigned in the end.
Perhaps, you can asked current students here for more or to see if they can collaborate this info.

 

[MossPoh]

Yea. I mean, I can see that. If there were a strict P/F. No honors, high passes, etc. then I think true competition would be eliminated. As is, you're still competing for the high honors if so be. The personality of the students may not see it as such, but it is there for the gunners if they want it.