COMpLEX

[Buster Douglas]

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Just wondered...

Is is possible as a DO graduate to go on to an allopathic residency having only taken the USMLE?

 

[kpax18]

good question. At my school we have to pass the step 1 complex in order to graduate

 

[SM-UCLA tech]

I think your question is a little off-base......

What you mean to ask is: Is it possible to attend an allopathic residency as a D.O. having only taken the COMLEX.


The answer is yes.

The COMLEX is the board exams you take at an osteopathic school. It is the the equivolent to the USMLE.

But many osteopathic students also take the USMLE as well. They do so in order to be evaluated more easily by residency programs. Remember though, it is not necessary to take the USMLE to obtain an allopathic residency.

 

[Buster Douglas]

Originally posted by SM-UCLA tech
I think your question is a little off-base......

What you mean to ask is: Is it possible to attend an allopathic residency as a D.O. having only taken the COMLEX.

No... just the opposite.

I'm not saying it would be more reasonable for someone to do this. I'm just wondering if it is possible.

 

[DrMom]

I think that all DO schools at least require step 1 of COMLEX. If that is the case, then the answer to your question is no.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by Buster Douglas
No... just the opposite.

I'm not saying it would be more reasonable for someone to do this. I'm just wondering if it is possible.

Actually you are required to take the COMLEX as a DO... you won't be able to get your license unless you take COMLEX Step 3.

Q, DO

 

[AZDOC]

Sorry Q,

That is incorrect. Some states, like AZ, will allow you to take the USMLE Step 3 and not make you take the COMLEX Step 3 for your license. However, you must also have the USMLE Step 1 and 2. It will save you some money and some time.

 

[Goofyone]

This is a question, and not an argument.

I'm pretty sure that if you don't take COMLEX I and II, you can't graduate, and so can't get your D.O. degree (at least it's that way at my school).

So, if you only take the USMLE, you still won't have an M.D., or a D.O. So then how can you be allowed to practice medicine without a physician's degree? Seems to me like a pretty big loophole!

 

[AZDOC]

You are given a degree by your school. If you go to an osteopathic school you are given a D.O. degree when you graduate. Some osteopathic schools require you to pass Comlex Step 1 and Comlex step 2 to graduate. Some osteopathic schools only require you to pass Comlex step 1 to graduate. In order to get your license you must at least complete a one year internship and you must pass Comlex Step 1, 2, and 3. However, as I stated on a previous e-mail some States will accept USMLE Step 3 in place of the Comlex step 3. Additionally, some States require you to pass the USMLE Step 1,2, and 3 to get a license even if you have a D.O. degree.


I hope this helps you understand the process.

 

[Buster Douglas]

Originally posted by AZDOC
Additionally, some States require you to pass the USMLE Step 1,2, and 3 to get a license even if you have a D.O. degree.

Would you happen to know which states these are?

...and yes, thanks, that does help clear things up.

 

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Buster Douglas
Would you happen to know which states these are?

...and yes, thanks, that does help clear things up.

None anymore.

Louisiana was the last state to accept the COMLEX, and they started a couple of years ago.

 

[Claymore]

Originally posted by AZDOC
Sorry Q,

That is incorrect. Some states, like AZ, will allow you to take the USMLE Step 3 and not make you take the COMLEX Step 3 for your license. However, you must also have the USMLE Step 1 and 2. It will save you some money and some time.

I've never heard of this...can you provide a link? I find it hard to believe. How can you become licensed, as a D.O. with distinct skills from an M.D., without taking the osteopathic boards?

Also, why would you not take the COMLEX level 3, considering you will have had to take levels 1 and 2 to graduate? Since you mentioned it, it seems like a much greater waste of time and money to complete all 3 steps of the USMLE sequence, which are not required.

MS-2
Midwestern University-CCOM

 

[Claymore]

Originally posted by AZDOC
Additionally, some States require you to pass the USMLE Step 1,2, and 3 to get a license even if you have a D.O. degree.

Again, where are you getting this? The COMLEX sequence is accepted in all 50 states (www.nbome.org). AZDOC, consider providing some evidence to your claims or checking your information before dispensing advice.

MS-2
Midwestern University-CCOM

 

[AZDOC]

Chill Out Claymore. You are quick to judge.

New Hampshire (Dartmouth) requires D.O.'s to have the USMLE for there license.

Once again, your medical license is provided by the State that you live.

Some D.O. schools such as Midwestern in Arizona doesn't require you to take and pass COMLEX step 2 to graduate. You can graduate and not take the COMLEX Step 2. Per the Dean.

In Arizona you can take the USMLE Step 3 in place of the Comlex step 3. How would this save you money? Paying for two exams. If you were applying to a allopathic fellowship you may want to have USMLE scores instead of COMLEX scores.

 

[AZDOC]

New Hampshire updated and now accepts the COMLEX.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/2645.html

 

[Claymore]

I'm just trying to clear up the confusion, settle down. I'd still like to see some documentation that you can become licensed as a D.O. without completing the COMLEX. That would be news to me. If you can provide a link, please do.

MS-2
Midwestern University-CCOM

 

[Optimistic]

No offense ,but its not ComPlex exam , its Comlex exam ,for those who dont know😉 🙂

 

[DermpathDO]

Optimistic
I see this supposed "typo" all the time...consider that the rules and regulations we are discussing on the message thread....would this make the COMLEX....."complex"
???? Just a thought🙄

 

[Optimistic]

Originally posted by DermpathDO
Optimistic
I see this supposed "typo" all the time...consider that the rules and regulations we are discussing on the message thread....would this make the COMLEX....."complex"
???? Just a thought🙄

I understand that it is probably atypo. But it happens so often that I decicded to clear it up for those who may not know.Because it doesnt look very good if DO's cant spell comlex. I was not trying to pick on anyone's grammer or to act smart.also didnt mean to offend you or anybody else🙂

 

[Buster Douglas]

😉

 

[RockandRolldoc]

I was temporarily excited when i saw the title of the thread--seemed like it was gonna be a witty post, but alas, I am disapointed. By the way, the answer is most definitely no.

 

[Optimistic]

Originally posted by Buster Douglas
😉

I just wantd to make the point regardless of what derm guy was trying to say. I understand that exam and its rule regulations are complex ,but that does not mean it can be called complex exam.If that was the case all the exams will be named complex .Do you get it now?😉 🙂

 

[pboothe]

Holy Macaroni this sounds complicate; So let me see if I have it straight:

Go to a DO school, take CI, CII....graduate and get a DO degree then in residency take CIII and get a license.....OR

Go to a DO school, take CI, CII....graduat with DO then in residency take UIII and get licensed........OR

Go to a DO school, take CI/UI, CII...graduate with DO then take CIII...get licensed..........OR

oh heak this is getting complicated....here it is in table format

CI CII CIII
CI CII UIII
CI CII CIII/UIII
CI CII/UII CIII
CI CII/UII CIII/UIII
CI/UI CII CIII
CI/UI CII/UII CIII
CI/UI CII CIII/UIII
.........and still more .......as you can see there are alot of ways a DO could go about it

 

[DOtobe]

Whoa, that post makes my head hurt...

😛

 

[Buster Douglas]

If I've got it right...

To practice medicine as a licensed DO all three are required:
CI CII CIII

Promotion to 3rd year at all schools require completion (pass?) of CI.

Variation most found in requirements to enter PGY-I depending on individual program MD or DO.

 

[hermione]

I'm assuming that most school will not allow you to complete your rotations until you pass Comlex step 1. I am also assuming that if you don't finish rotations, you will not graduate. It then would follow that if you don't graduate, you don't recieve a degree. (Anyone else having flashbacks to "logic" is highschool? If p then q...If and only if....)
So certainly step 1 of comlex is required to become a DO. As far as steps 2 and 3, I really don't know, but would love to see a credible link telling us either way.
Anyone?

 

[Idiopathic]

I guess it boils down to..."do I need a degree to practice medicine?" If all that is required is passing some tests, then no, it doesnt matter what tests you take.

 

[ramsestiger]

2 surprising bits of info I got from an optional lecture/presentation at KCOM by a family practice residency director:

1. You do not need to complete your COMLEX sequence in order to get licensed via an allopathic or osteopathic residency. There are way more family practice slots than there are students who seek them, so the directors basically try to sign you when you go in for your interview (making the "match" a little different than the allopathic counterpart). She said you could just take the three USMLE steps to get licensed if you want, but schools require at least the first step of the COMLEX to graduate.

2. Most schools did not require the COMLEX to graduate 10-15 years ago, but the AOA has been trying really hard to make osteopathic residencies more competitive and attractive. Also, schools didn't like the fact that students were apathetic toward OTM classes and didn't study for them too much since they weren't important for the boards.

 

[sean]

Upper case/Lower case says it all.

 

[docmartin]

ramsetiger,

You have to be licensed to practice medicine, so at some point you will have had to complete the COMLEX I, II, III. Again, as a DO, you can't take just USMLE I,II,III and get an MD license. Usually, most residencies want you to have completed steps I and II of COMLEX before starting residency and then you subsequently take step III sometime during your residency. USMLE is purely optional for those going into competitive residencies.

 

[Deuce 007 MD]

You guys have to take extra classes (OMM) that most of u well never use, and take 2 sets of boards, if you want a competitive allo res, that sucks.😱

 

[luckystar]

Originally posted by Deuce 007 MD
You guys have to take extra classes (OMM) that most of u well never use, and take 2 sets of boards, if you want a competitive allo res, that sucks.😱

You know what sucks? This: "my father's expectations".

Time to come out from under the shadow.

 

[drvlad2004]

Originally posted by luckystar
You know what sucks? This: "my father's expectations".

Time to come out from under the shadow.

LuckyStar, thank you for that link about Deuce007

It really seems that Deuce007 has some "COMPLEX" going on with himself. It's interesting why he/she loves to put negative posts about DOs all the time. The kid must have serious chip on his or her shoulder. It's just another medical student trying to live up to daddy's expectations but, who needs to displace his/her own issues vicariously onto someone else. Deuce, it's time to grow up and live your life. Times have changed, kid. As a DO, I am very happy with my situation. Maybe you need to go back to the allo forum. You obviously lack communication skills. I'd hate to find out your bedside manners with patients. Unfortunately, surgery doesn't sound like a good option for you. That sucks!

 

[luckystar]

Originally posted by drvlad2004
LuckyStar, thank you for that link about Deuce007

It really seems that Deuce007 has some "COMPLEX" going on with himself. It's interesting why he/she loves to put negative posts about DOs all the time. The kid must have serious chip on his or her shoulder. It's just another medical student trying to live up to daddy's expectations but, who needs to displace his/her own issues vicariously onto someone else. Deuce, it's time to grow up and live your life. Times have changed, kid. As a DO, I am very happy with my situation. Maybe you need to go back to the allo forum. You obviously lack communication skills. I'd hate to find out your bedside manners with patients. Unfortunately, surgery doesn't sound like a good option for you. That sucks!

Yeah, I just wanted to shine some light onto his "situation". I mean, he's probably a cool guy, but the anti-DO posts from him are getting old. I can understand how hard it can be when parents try to be supportive, but only end up creating these unrealistic ideals in the minds of their kids, who are scared to death of disappointing their good-intentioned parents. I just hope Deuce ends up doing what he loves, and if he does find his place in plastics, then I'll be happy for him.

 

[drvlad2004]

Originally posted by luckystar
Yeah, I just wanted to shine some light onto his "situation". I mean, he's probably a cool guy, but the anti-DO posts from him are getting old. I can understand how hard it can be when parents try to be supportive, but only end up creating these unrealistic ideals in the minds of their kids, who are scared to death of disappointing their good-intentioned parents. I just hope Deuce ends up doing what he loves, and if he does find his place in plastics, then I'll be happy for him.

I agree. Deuce is in the early stage of medical school and maybe he is naive. There's never been a doctor in my family. Therefore, I may not fully understand his "situation." I am sure he will hopefully mature once he starts his clinical clerkships. Currently, his posts suggest otherwise.

 

[Deuce 007 MD]

Damn, you guys jumped on me real quick this time.😀 I was just messin w/you guys, read the post in General Res. about which docs pull the most tail. You'll see people talkin trash just for fun amongst specialties, no real harm done. Think of it as me talkin trash to you on the b-ball court. I'll tell you, that you suck, but it doesn't mean that you do. Chill take it easy, if you read the post in the plastics forum my pops doesn't expect me to go into plastics. It's that I'm fielding out certain options right now cause I have to right a research proposal in a few months for a summer research project and plastics, rads, and path are some of my areas of interest. Nothing set in stone.

 

[dobonedoc]

This is funny to read.

For anyone who has not taken the COMLEX (Note that all letters are caps, just like NASA, UCLA, ... It is an acronym) -anyway- if you have not taken it, you wouldn't understand why those of us who have taken it love to refer to it as the COMpLEX. Simply stated, the test sucks. It sucks in every way imagieable. Not that it is a difficult board exam, nor that DO residency programs look at it in a similar way that USGME residency programs look at the USMLE, but because it is a terrible exam. The questions are poorly written. There are 800 of them to answer. The test takes 2 days to complete. Finally, in the near future it is going to feature a practical portion, offered in select cities, at the tune of $1K+. Compare this to the USMLE, and it should be clear why we (DOs) think this test really sucks - all 3 parts.

Many of us (DOs) take both board exams (COMLEX and USMLE) just to keep doors open with the different residency programs offered in the US. Some UCGME programs do not view the COMLEX as a vaild exam, or if they do, they claim that they cannot compare the results from the COMLEX with applicants who took the USMLE. Those of us who have taken both sets of boards are in a position to state the the COMLEX is complex.

 

[Maire]

Just to set things straight, I went to the web site of MY state's board of healing arts and copied the following:

"Each applicant for licensure by examination in osteopathic medicine and surgery who applies on or after July 1, 2000 either shall successfully complete step 1, step 2, and step 3 of the USMLE or shall successfully complete level 1, level 2, and level 3 of the COMLEX examination. To satisfy the requirements for licensure, the applicant shall complete all remaining steps of the USMLE examination or levels of the COMLEX examination within 10 years after passing step 1 or level 1 of the examination."

So you can see that in at least one state, you can take either the USMLE or the COMLEX and be licensed. The problem, of course, is that you can't graduate from any DO school that I know of without passing at least step 1 and usually step 2 of COMLEX.

Everybody just needs to cool down! At step 2, the hotel where the exam was held had it listed on the activity board as the COMPLEX exam. We all just shook our heads and laughed.

Maire