- Joined
- Oct 4, 2013
- Messages
- 41
- Reaction score
- 8
- Points
- 4,601
- Pharmacist
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Concealed carry!!!
- Thread starter tammoraf81
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2009
- Messages
- 3,723
- Reaction score
- 3,502
- Points
- 5,246
- Pharmacist
I don't, but the white coat makes it easy.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2016
- Messages
- 524
- Reaction score
- 591
- Points
- 5,236
- Pharmacist
I definitely thought about it in my retail days. My concern would be a tech knowing or accidentally seeing it. Puts you at a pretty big risk if they decide to use their access to help their buddies roll the place (whats the percentage of techs that try to get the job just for diversion?) Would hate for the robbery plan to begin with "shoot the pharmacist first, he has a gun". Also depends on whether you own the inventory. If it's a chain, I'd hold the door for them. You'd probably lose your job if you shot a burglar at a chain because you "endangered the lives of your staff by not complying".
Guns always are good for de-escalating a situation.
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2002
- Messages
- 4,445
- Reaction score
- 4,842
- Points
- 6,826
- Location
- DC
- Pharmacist
- Academic Administration
Old, old story and debate:
From the 60s!:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003046516341088/part/first-page-pdf
Now:
http://stage.uspharmacist.com/article/selfdefense-and-employment-law
My home state AZ has gone back and forth on the issue. During the 60s and 70s, yeah, even at staid old Walgreens you saw pharmacists armed in an open carry (not concealed) and some of the older pharmacies were known to have shotguns (if you really want to hear a great story about how crazy the 70s were, ask the most senior AZ state board member about a crazed Dilaudid seeker, an axe, and surgical reattachment of a pharmacist's hand at a Revco robbery). When I was an intern, they changed the ARS to say that a pharmacy explicitly may not conceal carry, but was silent on the matter of store shotgun as I think other parts of the ARS preempt that.
That being said, at least Walmart, Target, Walgreens, and Catholic Healthcare West have explicit no carry policies for employees and is an immediate termination offense to have one.
And yes, I've been robbed at implied gunpoint and at actual gunpoint at 3rd and Hell and Central and Osborn (overnight pharmacist in both cases) by two different people in my younger days. My friend was a hostage at 51st and Indian School (ended with the guy killing himself) as an intern AND as a pharmacist (Phoenix police ended him) and a preceptor of mine was chased out of 35th and Dunlap two hours after I left for the evening by a deranged robber who wore pantyhose over his head with a huge knife running all the way to 51st screaming his head off before a Glendale cop pulled over (he's a much happier Caremark pharmacist now). The bonus you get for being robbed is pretty pitiful. At least I wasn't the one raped which was the fate of the overnight pharmacist at Baseline in Tempe who we all knew as a sweetheart (no longer a 24 hour for that reason).
I've talked about this issue being the victim with other colleagues who've been victimized, and I think we've all come to the conclusion that even though some of us are good shots (I am not), we're just not in the frame of mind to be able to draw, undo the safety, target, and shoot before we would or risk someone else if we've been working all day (it's certainly too hard for me to switch mental states from a verifier to a shooter). Unless you got police permission to wear the vest, I highly doubt that the way a normal pharmacy is constructed in a way that lends itself to running to get an desk shotgun like in the old days. Better to just ensure that you gave the robber at least $500 worth of meds and call it an early week.
That was one of the factors why I decided for academia/government as I figured it'd be a safer gig at least than retail. Although, I still enjoy outpatient when I get the opportunity.
From the 60s!:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003046516341088/part/first-page-pdf
Now:
http://stage.uspharmacist.com/article/selfdefense-and-employment-law
My home state AZ has gone back and forth on the issue. During the 60s and 70s, yeah, even at staid old Walgreens you saw pharmacists armed in an open carry (not concealed) and some of the older pharmacies were known to have shotguns (if you really want to hear a great story about how crazy the 70s were, ask the most senior AZ state board member about a crazed Dilaudid seeker, an axe, and surgical reattachment of a pharmacist's hand at a Revco robbery). When I was an intern, they changed the ARS to say that a pharmacy explicitly may not conceal carry, but was silent on the matter of store shotgun as I think other parts of the ARS preempt that.
That being said, at least Walmart, Target, Walgreens, and Catholic Healthcare West have explicit no carry policies for employees and is an immediate termination offense to have one.
And yes, I've been robbed at implied gunpoint and at actual gunpoint at 3rd and Hell and Central and Osborn (overnight pharmacist in both cases) by two different people in my younger days. My friend was a hostage at 51st and Indian School (ended with the guy killing himself) as an intern AND as a pharmacist (Phoenix police ended him) and a preceptor of mine was chased out of 35th and Dunlap two hours after I left for the evening by a deranged robber who wore pantyhose over his head with a huge knife running all the way to 51st screaming his head off before a Glendale cop pulled over (he's a much happier Caremark pharmacist now). The bonus you get for being robbed is pretty pitiful. At least I wasn't the one raped which was the fate of the overnight pharmacist at Baseline in Tempe who we all knew as a sweetheart (no longer a 24 hour for that reason).
I've talked about this issue being the victim with other colleagues who've been victimized, and I think we've all come to the conclusion that even though some of us are good shots (I am not), we're just not in the frame of mind to be able to draw, undo the safety, target, and shoot before we would or risk someone else if we've been working all day (it's certainly too hard for me to switch mental states from a verifier to a shooter). Unless you got police permission to wear the vest, I highly doubt that the way a normal pharmacy is constructed in a way that lends itself to running to get an desk shotgun like in the old days. Better to just ensure that you gave the robber at least $500 worth of meds and call it an early week.
That was one of the factors why I decided for academia/government as I figured it'd be a safer gig at least than retail. Although, I still enjoy outpatient when I get the opportunity.
Last edited:
D
deleted480308
As a side note, most concealed carry people I know don't carry with the safety on.....but I agree if you aren't going to train on things like drawing and firing in close quarters that you might be less capable in an actual attack
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2007
- Messages
- 1,177
- Reaction score
- 315
- Points
- 5,171
- Location
- You not it dates Summer kuh
- Pharmacist
Every round has your bank account info attached. BTW your professional and employer insurance will probably not cover you in the event of a shooting.
D
deleted480308
As you should only be shooting to protect your life/safety that is a somewhat tertiary consideration to many
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2007
- Messages
- 1,177
- Reaction score
- 315
- Points
- 5,171
- Location
- You not it dates Summer kuh
- Pharmacist
Yeah it really sucks, because regardless of what happens it's a terrible situation to be in.
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2011
- Messages
- 2,893
- Reaction score
- 1,864
- Points
- 5,396
- Location
- Where my ex's live
- Pharmacist
I carry everywhere except the hospital. I have a gun safe in my vehicle too. It's welded to the frame so the only way to take the contents is to take the car.
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2002
- Messages
- 4,445
- Reaction score
- 4,842
- Points
- 6,826
- Location
- DC
- Pharmacist
- Academic Administration
To add to the above, I think it's possible in the environment if you're a particularly alert and conscientious about threat assessments, so if you're out and about and not having anything to concentrate on in particular, that is a workable solution. If you've had 0300 MOS or advanced police training, it's 'possible' that you could both concentrate on your work at hand and assess for threats, but even the military doesn't do it that way. In the practice though, the amount of false positives to actual threats is so imbalanced as the probability of drawing on the wrong person is too high. Even drawing without anything else will get you arrested and charged in AZ without major extenuating circumstances ("I thought he was armed" is not one of them). But suspecting each and every one of your patients as a potential robber is probably going to cost so much in cognitive impairment in verifying that you'll make more mistakes than avoiding drops. It's not that you're not paying attention, it's the sort of attention that is needed for threat assessment and neutralization is a specific kind of mentality that takes up cognitive ability to do your normal job.
(The confined psychiatric ward and the Bureau of Prisons are obvious exceptions, that's why there's more than one guard accompanying you on direct patient visits due to APA and BoP recommendations. I mean the above in the general public situation.)
But that doesn't get into the situation at hand. Unless the robber is extraordinarily incompetent or deranged, he'll get the drop on you. In both of my cases, there wasn't the dramatic Hollywood "I'VE GOT A GUN!!!!" sort of situation. The first time, the comment was so left field as we were talking about his kid's cold that I had to ask him to repeat it as I thought I heard wrong. The second time, it was the middle of winter and I was verifying a script when he came up to the window opened his and pulled a gun as he would a script. Even I were armed in either of those situations, I wouldn't have been able to draw before the robber could take more immediate action. Again, if I had that sort of vigilant personality, possibly it would be different, but I doubt it and it wouldn't be worth the cognitive cost.
As for carrying a gun without a safety on, sigh, hopefully they aren't stupid enough to also have a bullet in the first chamber in a single action or they'd be candidates for joining the daily list of GSW admits in AZ shooting their leg from an accidental discharge which also immediately jeopardizes their CC. Again, if you have the right sort of background and are very, very careful, maybe, but the average person is probably going to do something stupid doing it that way.
(The confined psychiatric ward and the Bureau of Prisons are obvious exceptions, that's why there's more than one guard accompanying you on direct patient visits due to APA and BoP recommendations. I mean the above in the general public situation.)
But that doesn't get into the situation at hand. Unless the robber is extraordinarily incompetent or deranged, he'll get the drop on you. In both of my cases, there wasn't the dramatic Hollywood "I'VE GOT A GUN!!!!" sort of situation. The first time, the comment was so left field as we were talking about his kid's cold that I had to ask him to repeat it as I thought I heard wrong. The second time, it was the middle of winter and I was verifying a script when he came up to the window opened his and pulled a gun as he would a script. Even I were armed in either of those situations, I wouldn't have been able to draw before the robber could take more immediate action. Again, if I had that sort of vigilant personality, possibly it would be different, but I doubt it and it wouldn't be worth the cognitive cost.
As for carrying a gun without a safety on, sigh, hopefully they aren't stupid enough to also have a bullet in the first chamber in a single action or they'd be candidates for joining the daily list of GSW admits in AZ shooting their leg from an accidental discharge which also immediately jeopardizes their CC. Again, if you have the right sort of background and are very, very careful, maybe, but the average person is probably going to do something stupid doing it that way.
D
deleted480308
It's the norm to be taught to carry in condition "red" (no safety, chambered)...because the only time you're supposed to touch the gun is when your life is danger and in stress situation fine motor skills suffer and time is of the essence.
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2014
- Messages
- 257
- Reaction score
- 231
- Points
- 5,131
I lot of sensible comments here from people who have been in actual situations...
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2013
- Messages
- 41
- Reaction score
- 8
- Points
- 4,601
- Pharmacist
I just got my CCW license but now I found out that it's an immediate termination if my employer find out !!!!
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
No, thank you
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2004
- Messages
- 10,413
- Reaction score
- 4,052
- Points
- 5,536
- Location
- Best Coast
- Pharmacist
Great post, btw.
I'm only quoting and replying to this part because I chuckled in a dark way because the last two shootings we had in California were at UCLA (academia) and the San Bernardino terrorist shootings (government function).
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2009
- Messages
- 3,723
- Reaction score
- 3,502
- Points
- 5,246
- Pharmacist
The only time you should let anyone know that you have a firearm is when you're about to have your life terminated. At that point, the job isn't worth worrying about.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Pretty sure that having your CCW license is NOT an immediate termination (I'd have to see that in the employee rule book before I would believe that.) What would be the immediate termination is bring your gun onto company property. Many people have CCW licenses and they don't carry their guns everywhere they go (maybe they do in TX, I've never been there, so can't say for sure.)
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2013
- Messages
- 41
- Reaction score
- 8
- Points
- 4,601
- Pharmacist
You are right. I meant to say "if I bring it to work and they find out !!"
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
