Concerned about DEBT

[hallowmann]

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It's off or you don't like it? Maybe we disagree morally. But it's possible and since we're just using anecdotes as someone in entering the situation I can't see any legit problems with this. Why isn't it working for you?

Main problem I see is taxes. That said, in med school, my tuition was $30-$35k/yr and COL was $15-$20k/yr. If someone is making $65k/yr, I can assume 15-20% is going to taxes, but that leaves you with $52k after taxes, and expenses of ~$55k. Coming out of med school with <$20k in debt would be amazing, and in all honesty, I doubt the spouse would be able to find an investment with much better return than saving 6-7% on the loan interest. Seems reasonable to me. Now say I went somewhere like CCOM, where tuition is $20-$30k/yr more and COL was more like $30-$35k/yr. I'd come out of med school with 6-figure debt.

 

[Chibucks15]

It's off or you don't like it? Maybe we disagree morally. But it's possible and since we're just using anecdotes as someone in entering the situation I can't see any legit problems with this. Why isn't it working for you?

Both. I am literally living that and it isn’t enough to cover unless you’re really scraping by. I could live on 20k myself but 2 people makes it pretty hard. Unless you give up a lot of fun things and live on the ramen diet. To each their own, but I’d rather not sell my soul more than I already am through this process. The loans get paid off regardless.

For clarification. I’m at a DO school but in a lower COL area. So sure tuition is more but COL is less

 

[hallowmann]

Both. I am literally living that and it isn’t enough to cover unless you’re really scraping by. I could live on 20k myself but 2 people makes it pretty hard. Unless you give up a lot of fun things and live on the ramen diet. To each their own, but I’d rather not sell my soul more than I already am through this process. The loans get paid off regardless.

For clarification. I’m at a DO school but in a lower COL area. So sure tuition is more but COL is less

How much are you paying for rent? In a low COL area, I was paying $600-$650 for rent+utilities in a 1-bedroom in med school. That still leaves you with $1000/mo for all other expenses. 2 people can easily live off of $1000k/mo, not counting living expenses. Obviously if you had to pay ~$1000 for living expenses in your "lower COL" area, living on $20k/yr would be tough.

 

[Chibucks15]

How much are you paying for rent? In a low COL area, I was paying $600-$650 for rent+utilities in a 1-bedroom in med school. That still leaves you with $1000/mo for all other expenses. 2 people can easily live off of $1000k/mo, not counting living expenses. Obviously if you had to pay ~$1000 for living expenses in your "lower COL" area, living on $20k/yr would be tough.

Woah I’m not that low haha low compared to what I grew up in but still in a smaller city so yeah 20k ain’t doable for us

 

[hallowmann]

Woah I’m not that low haha low compared to what I grew up in but still in a smaller city so yeah 20k ain’t doable for us

Yeah, I guess its all relative. Even in the medium-sized city that I grew up in, I was paying no more than $1k/mo for a decent apartment. Moved 40 min away to a small "city", and paid the $600/mo. Friends in Chicago or LA were paying >$2k/mo for apartments smaller than either of the other two I lived in. Money gets you a lot further in different parts of the country.

 

[Chibucks15]

Yeah, I guess its all relative. Even in the medium-sized city that I grew up in, I was paying no more than $1k/mo for a decent apartment. Moved 40 min away to a small "city", and paid the $600/mo. Friends in Chicago or LA were paying >$2k/mo for apartments smaller than either of the other two I lived in. Money gets you a lot further in different parts of the country.

Yeah I’m paying the same price for double the size as my friends in the big city. Plus big time upgrades.

Middle sized cities are where it’s at

 

[BluegrassBuckeye]

As someone who's on the very high end of the student loan debt bell curve(~$685,000 combined undergrad, masters, med school debt) all you can really do is take solace in the fact that you're doing this for noble reasons and you'll have some of the best job security of any industry so it'll get paid off eventually. And if worse comes to worst, the government loans at least don't get passed on to your kids when you die.

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

And if worse comes to worst, the government loans at least don't get passed on to your kids when you die.

🤣

 

[Postictal Raiden]

As someone who's on the very high end of the student loan debt bell curve(~$685,000 combined undergrad, masters, med school debt) all you can really do is take solace in the fact that you're doing this for noble reasons and you'll have some of the best job security of any industry so it'll get paid off eventually. And if worse comes to worst, the government loans at least don't get passed on to your kids when you die.

Is that after interests?

Regardless, that's a massive debt. Please do well on boards and choose your specialty (i.e. neurosurgery or ortho). Otherwise, do a short residency in a specialty that is in high demand (FM, psych, neuro) and go work in the boonies or do locum. Don't succumb to the idea that the loans will "get paid off eventually".

I tell you, I have a massive debt too (not as bad as yours though), and used to think that I'll do PSLF or, even worse, endure the psychological burden of carrying a half a million dollars in debt for 20 years and then have it forgiven. However, after reading numerous posts on the WCI forum, I realized that in order to be truly happy and to have a peace of mind, you need to be financially independent. One poster on that forum (newly minted psychiatrist) repaid all of his debt in a year (can't remember how much but I think it was ~400k). Another one (urologist) repaid over half a million in less than a year by working his tail off.

 

[BluegrassBuckeye]

Is that after interests?

Regardless, that's a massive debt. Please do well on boards and choose your specialty (i.e. neurosurgery or ortho). Otherwise, do a short residency in a specialty that is in high demand (FM, psych, neuro) and go work in the boonies or do locum. Don't succumb to the idea that the loans will "get paid off eventually".

I tell you, I have a massive debt too (not as bad as yours though), and used to think that I'll do PSLF or, even worse, endure the psychological burden of carrying a half a million dollars in debt for 20 years and then have it forgiven. However, after reading numerous posts on the WCI forum, I realized that in order to be truly happy and to have a peace of mind, you need to be financially independent. One poster on that forum (newly minted psychiatrist) repaid all of his debt in a year (can't remember how much but I think it was ~400k). Another one (urologist) repaid over half a million in less than a year by working his tail off.

That is the amount I will owe when I walk across that stage next May and get my diploma. Some interest has accrued, particularly on the undergrad and masters loans, but that number will likely get bigger before it gets smaller. I'm doing EM. Not sure where that falls in your specialty recommendation, but for better or worse that's the one for me. My wife and I aren't the go out and buy a big house and expensive car types. We'll be more than happy relying on her salary plus a small fraction of my salary for the first few years of my attending life in order to aggressively pay down those loans.

 

[Sardonix]

That is the amount I will owe when I walk across that stage next May and get my diploma. Some interest has accrued, particularly on the undergrad and masters loans, but that number will likely get bigger before it gets smaller. I'm doing EM. Not sure where that falls in your specialty recommendation, but for better or worse that's the one for me. My wife and I aren't the go out and buy a big house and expensive car types. We'll be more than happy relying on her salary plus a small fraction of my salary for the first few years of my attending life in order to aggressively pay down those loans.

Honestly as scary as your number is, if you work your absolute tail off as an EM attending and with spousal support you guys should be in good 5 or so years after residency.

 

[WoundupKnight]

So I need some advice. I was doing some calculations, and figured out how much debt I may be in after Medical School, without taking interest into consideration. I just don't know if I'll be able to get out of it, and it is really stressing me out. I am going to be attending ATSU-SOMA.

I'm pretty much asking for advice...is it possible to pay this off? Is this too high? How long will it take me to pay it off, if I live minimally throughout my residency years? Which loan should I take out first between the two? Any advice to calm me down will help. Thank you everyone!

Tuition: $59,802 x 4 years = $239,208.00
Year 1 Medical Equipment Fee = $1,000.00
Rent+Utilities = $800/month x 4 years = $38,400.00
Food = $480/month x 4 years = $23,040.00
Gas = $30/week x 4 years = $5,760.00
Phone/Other Bills = $53/month x 4 years = $2,544.00

Total (Without Interest) = $309,952.00


***Loan Options***

Loans

Type/Lender	Award Year	No Term	No Term	Total:	Accept
Scheduled Grad PLUS Loan	2019-20	$27,124.00	$27,123.00	$54,247.00
Bank Fee	2019-20			$2,406.00
Gross Amount	2019-20			$56,653.00	​
Scheduled Unsub Stfd Loan	2019-20	$21,135.00	$21,135.00	$42,270.00
Bank Fee	2019-20			$452.00
Gross Amount	2019-20			$42,722.00	​

How are you spending $480 a month on food?

Also you need to add in ~5k for boards and another 5k for interviews/travel. And add ~2-3% extra on the total because federal loan fees.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

That is the amount I will owe when I walk across that stage next May and get my diploma. Some interest has accrued, particularly on the undergrad and masters loans, but that number will likely get bigger before it gets smaller. I'm doing EM. Not sure where that falls in your specialty recommendation, but for better or worse that's the one for me. My wife and I aren't the go out and buy a big house and expensive car types. We'll be more than happy relying on her salary plus a small fraction of my salary for the first few years of my attending life in order to aggressively pay down those loans.

Well that amount is likely to balloon to 800k by the end of your residency.

Luckily EM is a high paying field and is relatively in high demand, at least in rural areas.

If I were you, I’d make it my goal to find a job that pays at least $300/hr. Even if you do 12 12-hr shifts a month, you can still repay 300k of your debt per year, if you continue to live on resident’s budget. Your loans will be gone in 2-3 years. That’s the way to tackle it.

I have a friend who finished DO school owing close to 500k and didn’t match. Couldn’t even scramble into anything. Your situation is a lightyear better than his.

 

[Saleemrodman1]

How are you spending $480 a month on food?

Also you need to add in ~5k for boards and another 5k for interviews/travel. And add ~2-3% extra on the total because federal loan fees.

How much do you think I should spend on food? I put $480 per month ($120 per week) as an estimate. I plan to do most of my grocery shopping at Costco.

I'm trying to figure this out BEFORE taking out the loans.

The 2-3% you mentioned is in addition to the bank fees that I put into the table?

 

[Saleemrodman1]

Is that after interests?

Regardless, that's a massive debt. Please do well on boards and choose your specialty (i.e. neurosurgery or ortho). Otherwise, do a short residency in a specialty that is in high demand (FM, psych, neuro) and go work in the boonies or do locum. Don't succumb to the idea that the loans will "get paid off eventually".

I tell you, I have a massive debt too (not as bad as yours though), and used to think that I'll do PSLF or, even worse, endure the psychological burden of carrying a half a million dollars in debt for 20 years and then have it forgiven. However, after reading numerous posts on the WCI forum, I realized that in order to be truly happy and to have a peace of mind, you need to be financially independent. One poster on that forum (newly minted psychiatrist) repaid all of his debt in a year (can't remember how much but I think it was ~400k). Another one (urologist) repaid over half a million in less than a year by working his tail off.

How much debt do you have? This whole debt thing is really stressing me out. I'm looking at ~$312,000 (excluding interest).

 

[Postictal Raiden]

How much debt do you have? This whole debt thing is really stressing me out. I'm looking at ~$312,000 (excluding interest).

450k walking out of school (this includes 50 from undergrad). With RePAY, the loans are accruing 15k/year while I’m in training (would’ve been 30k if govt wasn’t subsiding half of the unpaid interests).

312k is a lot too. Obviously not nearly as bad as mine, but will still need careful planning and sincere intention to payoff in timely manner.

 

[Saleemrodman1]

450k walking out of school (this includes 50 from undergrad). With RePAY, the loans are accruing 15k/year while I’m in training (would’ve been 30k if govt wasn’t subsiding half of the unpaid interests).

312k is a lot too. Obviously not nearly as bad as mine, but will still need careful planning and sincere intention to payoff in timely manner.

Luckily I don't have any undergraduate debt, which I am thankful for.

If I have $312K in debt (without interest), how much should I pay while I am in residency? How much do you think that debt will get into if $200,000 of the debt is around 6% interest, while the other $112,000 is about 7% interest?

Once I am out of residency, I plan to live on a resident's budget, so I can pay off all my debt as FAST as possible. This is all just so stressful, and it almost sounds impossible to pay off.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Luckily I don't have any undergraduate debt, which I am thankful for.

If I have $312K in debt (without interest), how much should I pay while I am in residency? How much do you think that debt will get into if $200,000 of the debt is around 6% interest, while the other $112,000 is about 7% interest?

Once I am out of residency, I plan to live on a resident's budget, so I can pay off all my debt as FAST as possible. This is all just so stressful, and it almost sounds impossible to pay off.

Your collective interest rate on the entire amount is ~6.35%. During medical school, your loans will accumulate about 40k of interests, so you'll walk out owing ~350k.

The interest on that amount will amount to be ~22k/year. If you're single, live in a reasonably affordable city during residency, you could easily afford $500 a month, or 8k/year to throw towards your loans. If you do RePAYE, the govt will cover half of the unpaid interests, so your loans will grow by 7k every year in residency. If we assume that you do a 4-year residency program, you'll add on an additional 32k to your 350k principle. You'll walk out of residency owing 382k. Tons of debt but very very manageable if you have a shred of financial commonsense. Most physicians can pay this off within two years without having to starve.

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

How are you spending $480 a month on food?

 

[Sardonix]

Luckily I don't have any undergraduate debt, which I am thankful for.

If I have $312K in debt (without interest), how much should I pay while I am in residency? How much do you think that debt will get into if $200,000 of the debt is around 6% interest, while the other $112,000 is about 7% interest?

Once I am out of residency, I plan to live on a resident's budget, so I can pay off all my debt as FAST as possible. This is all just so stressful, and it almost sounds impossible to pay off.

Hey man, chill. It's a lot of money, but you can do this.

If you really wanna assure yourself, read up on this and develop a plan:

Student Loans 101: Ultimate Guide to Student Loans | White Coat Investor

Student loan management can be tricky, particularly during residency. Finally, you have all the information you need in one place to manage them from undergraduate until pay-off in one place. We're talking private & federal loans, IDR and forgiveness programs (PSLF, REPAYE, PAYE, IBR, ICR)...

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

Heck, develop spread sheets. But your #1 priority right now is focusing on doing well on boards and in school. The money will be manageable, later. Relax.

 

[Saleemrodman1]

Your collective interest rate on the entire amount is ~6.35%. During medical school, your loans will accumulate about 40k of interests, so you'll walk out owing ~350k.

The interest on that amount will amount to be ~22k/year. If you're single, live in a reasonably affordable city during residency, you could easily afford $500 a month, or 8k/year to throw towards your loans. If you do RePAYE, the govt will cover half of the unpaid interests, so your loans will grow by 7k every year in residency. If we assume that you do a 4-year residency program, you'll add on an additional 32k to your 350k principle. You'll walk out of residency owing 382k. Tons of debt but very very manageable if you have a shred of financial commonsense. Most physicians can pay this off within two years without having to starve.

Thank you for your response. That makes me feel a little better, being able to see all those figures and knowing that it is indeed possible to pay the loans off without starving for years.

 

[Saleemrodman1]

Hey man, chill. It's a lot of money, but you can do this.

If you really wanna assure yourself, read up on this and develop a plan:

Student Loans 101: Ultimate Guide to Student Loans | White Coat Investor

Student loan management can be tricky, particularly during residency. Finally, you have all the information you need in one place to manage them from undergraduate until pay-off in one place. We're talking private & federal loans, IDR and forgiveness programs (PSLF, REPAYE, PAYE, IBR, ICR)...

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

Heck, develop spread sheets. But your #1 priority right now is focusing on doing well on boards and in school. The money will be manageable, later. Relax.

Thank you for your response. You're right...I have to focus on doing well. Thanks again!

 

[You shall know the Truth]

I’m on track to surpass $300k soon, I’m less than a year into attendinghood. And that’s working 6-7 clinical hours per day, 4 days per week, averaging 1-2 weekends per month on hospitalist call (where I spend an average of 8-10 total hours actually in the hospital for the whole weekend; and the rest at home).

I’m averaging 16-20 clinic patients per day, but that’s increasing and my target is 20-24. I’m in a town of 6k people, county of about 28k people which is serviced by about 14 PCP’s, a surgeon, a handful of PA’s and a band of visiting specialists. I really really like this job BTW; 1 yr in and I honestly see myself staying here for the long haul.

The side benefit is that the cost of living here is very low. So my income goes way farther. My exact home would easily have cost $250k more just an hour from here in the city. I can drive there when I need an urban fix. I’ll bank the difference!

How is the surgeon doing in the area. I would like to do rural/under served surgery.

 

[ArdorAyurveda]

How do you calculate the interest that your student loans will earn, taking into consideration that the loan you take out on the first year will accrue interest longer than the second year and subsequent loans?

How do you factor in the origination fee? Do you just include it in the principal? I.e., I take out $25k at a 1% origination fee, is my principle really $25,250 from day 1?

When a loan capitalizes, do you just add the interest to the principal? After capitalization, does the interest on your capitalized loan start back at $0, or does the bank just calculate a new interest based on your new principal? If it's the latter, that's just insidious...

Let's say you go with PSLF. You do ten years of payments, everything is good. Is the remaining loan balance taxed separately, or is it taxed as income additional to what you made that year?

Example: $50,000 gets forgiven. My income is 300k that year. Does I get taxed as if I earned $350,000? Or does the $50k get taxed "separately" in its own tax bracket?

these are my main questions...i know the general adage is to take out as little as possible...but my tastes are expensive and i don't want to eat ramen and have no social life during med school...

 

[WoundupKnight]

How much do you think I should spend on food? I put $480 per month ($120 per week) as an estimate. I plan to do most of my grocery shopping at Costco.

I'm trying to figure this out BEFORE taking out the loans.

The 2-3% you mentioned is in addition to the bank fees that I put into the table?

I spend like $200-250 a month on food as a large guy who goes out to eat weekly. If bank fee = loan fee then no, not in addition to.

So, you're currently budgeted at $310k. But you'll need 1-3% extra due to loan fees. Assuming you take out $320k in loans over 4 years at $80k per year, you'd be taking out a total of $170,888 in unsub direct loans (which you want to maximize due to the lower interest and loan fees) and $149,112 in grad plus. This is $42,722 in unsub direct and $37,278 in grad plus.

The current interest rate for unsub direct is 6.6% and for grad plus is 7.6%. Assuming these do not change and you only take out $80k/year (meaning year 1 loans accrue interest for 4 years, year 2 loans accrue interest for 3 years etc) you will accrue $66,917 in interest while in school. Of this interest, $33,394 is going to be from your unsub direct and $33,523 is going to be from your grad plus. A few months after the end of medical school you'll enter repayment which means your loans are capitalized, your interest is added to your principal and the new figure becomes your new principal.

At the end of medical school you will owe unsub direct: $204,282 and grad plus: $182,635 or a total of ~$387k at two different interest rates. Your unsub direct will accrue interest at $1123/month, grad plus at $1156/month for a total of $2,279/month.

Your actual interest owed will probably be less than the figures above since schools do disbursement by semesters which means ~6 months less interest for the second half of each year. But this should give you a good ballpark.

 

[WoundupKnight]

How do you calculate the interest that your student loans will earn, taking into consideration that the loan you take out on the first year will accrue interest longer than the second year and subsequent loans?

By doing the math separately per semester. I.e Year 1 Fall semester loans will accrue interest for 4 years. Year 1 Spring semester loans will accrue interest for 3.5 years etc. Your year 4 Spring semester will generate the lowest total amount of interest, year 1 Fall the highest.

How do you factor in the origination fee? Do you just include it in the principal? I.e., I take out $25k at a 1% origination fee, is my principle really $25,250 from day 1?

Yes, it's taken off the top of the total you borrow. I.e you borrow 50k with a 10% loan fee, you get 45k.

When a loan capitalizes, do you just add the interest to the principal? After capitalization, does the interest on your capitalized loan start back at $0, or does the bank just calculate a new interest based on your new principal? If it's the latter, that's just insidious...

New interest based on new principal which is how those loans start increasing exponentially.

Let's say you go with PSLF. You do ten years of payments, everything is good. Is the remaining loan balance taxed separately, or is it taxed as income additional to what you made that year?

Example: $50,000 gets forgiven. My income is 300k that year. Does I get taxed as if I earned $350,000? Or does the $50k get taxed "separately" in its own tax bracket?

It has nothing to do with your income. Your loans are forgiven. They disappear.

but my tastes are expensive and i don't want to eat ramen and have no social life during med school...

Ramen is delicious.

 

[NITRAS]

My wife and I ate on $50 a week in med school.

Not a ton of meat other than bulk chicken on sale, but I didn’t starve.

Going out to eat is a luxury.

 

[ArdorAyurveda]

@WoundupKnight Hey there, thanks for answering my questions. Do you know the formula for daily compounding interest by chance? I'm assuming that interest compounds daily from the day that the loan is disbursed.

Also, I get that the loans are forgiven, but doesn't the government tax the forgiven amount? I remember reading that somewhere.

Never mind, just did a quick google search. under PSLF, there is no tax on forgiven loans, nice! Source: https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service

I think I'll have around 150k-200k to repay after graduating, so I'm gucci in the grand scheme...but I just want to know the exact amount because the 150k is really just a guess. Not counting interest, I'll be around 130k. So I'm really just trying to figure out just how much interest I will owe based on my interest rate, the amount I take out each semester, and capitalization...and I know that I have to factor in interest building during residency and fellowship, too...just tryna get exact numbers is all.

@NITRAS $50/wk in 2018 for two people?? Kudos to you two, that sounds like a lot of brown rice...I think I could swing that...if y'all can do it for two people, I can do it for just myself.

When I said my tastes are expensive, I did not mean that I go to restaurants often. I just like to have a fully stocked fridge all the time, and I like to get lots of different spices and meats and just create new recipes in the kitchen. Cooking is comforting to me...and meat is expensive 🙁

I've also been thinking that it'd be better to buy organic foods and the like because apparently they're healthier. Is this thinking misguided? I grew up on regular food, so I can't really speak to whether or not organic is truly better for you.

just seems like all the science says it is better, so why not buy yourself good food? Idk, it seems short-sighted to pinch pennies on your body's source of energy and nutrients if I can expect to pay back my loans...

Thank you both for replying.

 

[pseud0]

The loans are really making me lean into wanting to get a residency only at a qualifying hospital. Probably limits options but im 99% positive i'll be a working doc for at least 10 years to qualify for pslf anyways. Making minimum monthly income based payments followed by loan cancellation sounds a lot more palatable than trying to live super frugally for a few years to pay off this insanely overpriced tuition

 

[dohopeful13]

The loans are really making me lean into wanting to get a residency only at a qualifying hospital. Probably limits options but im 99% positive i'll be a working doc for at least 10 years to qualify for pslf anyways. Making minimum monthly income based payments followed by loan cancellation sounds a lot more palatable than trying to live super frugally for a few years to pay off this insanely overpriced tuition

FWIW, I think a ridiculously low amount of people who applied for PSLF actually ended up getting it. I don't even consider it a valid option myself. I'll either attack the debt and live on 40k for 3-4 years or do REPAYE and just prepare to pay a huge amount of tax at the end of 25 years.

 

[pseud0]

a lot of people that applied for it didn't fill out the proper paperwork/actually didn't have loans that qualify I believe I remember reading.

 

[dohopeful13]

a lot of people that applied for it didn't fill out the proper paperwork/actually didn't have loans that qualify I believe I remember reading.

So I think about 99% were rejected, 16 percent for having the wrong loans. The other 80% or so did have the right loans. At that point, you deduce that the govt probably looks for reasons to reject apps. Doesn't even have to be a mistake that you made, could be on your loan officer.

Again, not saying it won't work out. But given the current trends of a 1 percent success rate like hell would I put all my eggs in that basket. And this is without even considering the prospect that this program may not stick around.

 

[pseud0]

The program sticking around or not does not apply to anyone with a promissory note dated before they axe the program. We are grandfathered in.

 

[WoundupKnight]

@WoundupKnight Hey there, thanks for answering my questions. Do you know the formula for daily compounding interest by chance? I'm assuming that interest compounds daily from the day that the loan is disbursed.

It doesn't compound while you're in school. The loans are capitalized when you enter repayment and then compounded daily. The formula's a bit long just use a online calculator.

Also it looks like interest rate for loans this year are a bit lower than last year (6.08% vs 6.6%), so there's that at least.

 

[WoundupKnight]

FWIW, I think a ridiculously low amount of people who applied for PSLF actually ended up getting it. I don't even consider it a valid option myself. I'll either attack the debt and live on 40k for 3-4 years or do REPAYE and just prepare to pay a huge amount of tax at the end of 25 years.

a lot of people that applied for it didn't fill out the proper paperwork/actually didn't have loans that qualify I believe I remember reading.

Why The Public Service Loan Forgiveness Headlines Are Misleading

The headlines surrounding Public Service Loan Forgiveness are misleading. Understand the nuances and learn why the program is working as intended.

www.forbes.com

Majority did not have qualifying loans, the right type of repayment plan or were even working at qualifying locations.

Here are the number of people that've made qualifying payments:

• 91-120 Months (8 to 10 years): 1,724 - Estimated Forgiveness 2019 to 2021
• 73-96 Months (6 to 8 years): 10,428 - Estimated Forgiveness 2021 to 2023
• 49-92 Months (4 to 6 years): 45,235 - Estimated Forgiveness 2023 to 2025
• 25-48 Months (2 to 4 years): 147,686 - Estimated Forgiveness 2025 to 2027
• 1-24 Months (up to 2 years): 413,922 - Estimated Forgiveness 2027 to 2029

Which means the number of qualifying PSLF individuals is likely well under 1,724 for 2018-2019 despite over 28,000 applications. With the number of people that'll be qualified for PSLF in the future I doubt the program is sustainable.

 

[321931]

Bernie Sanders says that he will forgive all student loans by taxing wall street .5%.

That's a way to go about it.

 

[WoundupKnight]

Bernie Sanders says that he will forgive all student loans by taxing wall street .5%.

That's a way to go about it.

If Bernie wins, and then if the state your school in chooses to buy-in to the program. I don't feel that taking out 300k in loans and then praying Bernie gets elected/gets his free college bill passed/has the state you go to school in approve it, is the best way to go about this.

 

[321931]

If Bernie wins, and then if the state your school in chooses to buy-in to the program. I don't feel that taking out 300k in loans and then praying Bernie gets elected/gets his free college bill passed/has the state you go to school in approve it, is the best way to go about this.

I know I agree- I was sorta making an off-handed comment😛

Anyways that PSLF option is eye-opening 400,000 people by 2027 seems unsustainable.

 

[pseud0]

I know I agree- I was sorta making an off-handed comment😛

Anyways that PSLF option is eye-opening 400,000 people by 2027 seems unsustainable.

the government controls a lot more money than you realize. those 400k people are obligated to be eligible by contract, as well. There's no getting out of it for the gov as long as you meet the requirements

 

[321931]

the government controls a lot more money than you realize. those 400k people are obligated to be eligible by contract, as well. There's no getting out of it for the gov as long as you meet the requirements

So what is the explanation behind the fact that only .5% have gotten PSLF? I don't understand this.

99% Of Borrowers Rejected Again For Student Loan Forgiveness

More than 99% of borrowers were rejected for student loan forgiveness.

www.forbes.com

"How many student loan borrowers were approved for student loan forgiveness?


Approximately 610 applications have been approved and 338 borrowers have collectively received $21.1 million in public service loan forgiveness. Cumulatively, only about 640 borrowers have received public service loan forgiveness based on approximately 132,000 processed applications. That's less than 0.5%."

 

[pseud0]

it literally says it right there

"

• Of that total, more than 73% of applications have been denied due to student loan borrowers not meeting the program requirements. For example, borrowers did not have eligible student loans, make 120 qualifying payments or have qualifying employment.
• Another 25% of applications for public service loan forgiveness were denied due to missing or incomplete information on the employment certification form.

"

non-eligible loans
didnt make 120 qualifying payments yet
location of employment doesn't fall under the correct jurisdiction
didn't fill out the form correctly

it's a brand new program, not that many people meet the eligibility criteria yet

 

[Ho0v-man]

it literally says it right there

"

• Of that total, more than 73% of applications have been denied due to student loan borrowers not meeting the program requirements. For example, borrowers did not have eligible student loans, make 120 qualifying payments or have qualifying employment.
• Another 25% of applications for public service loan forgiveness were denied due to missing or incomplete information on the employment certification form.

"

non-eligible loans
didnt make 120 qualifying payments yet
location of employment doesn't fall under the correct jurisdiction
didn't fill out the form correctly

it's a brand new program, not that many people meet the eligibility criteria yet

A lot of what I’ve read has been complaints that the government said everything was approved for 7-8 years at the yearly verification only to have the rug yanked out from under them.

 

[Sardonix]

A lot of what I’ve read has been complaints that the government said everything was approved for 7-8 years at the yearly verification only to have the rug yanked out from under them.

Having friends who applied for PSLF, this is exactly what they are upset about.

Also those that DO qualify and take all the right steps can still get screwed. For example, you've made 90/120 qualifying payments when suddenly a brand new (and incompetent) company takes over your loan management. A year later they inform you that, while they received payments 91-99, they don't know where those payments went and therefore you do not qualify. They then mail you a letter yelling at you for "not paying" for the last year and may have to disqualify you.

It will then take approximately 4-6wks to get this rectified. At which point something else pops up in the payment process. Cycle repeats.

It's so unbelievably scummy and infuriating.

 

[Saleemrodman1]

bump

 

[fldoctorgirl]

bump

Honestly, your loans aren't ridiculously high for someone in med school. Average med school debt is totally off considering the range of people who have their parents paying for all or part of their school. I will graduate with ~280k, and I'm not really all that worried about paying it off. Your main concern should be just doing well in school so you can be sure to match and become a physician. Once that happens, you'll be fine. Plenty of people pay off this amount of debt in 5 years.