Confidentiality?? PLEASE HELP!!

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GuyLaroche said:
Children, don't do drugs. I hope your friend gets fired. That's the only way he'll learn.

I should say that I suspect he won't get fired. On what grounds can his PI fire him? To fire him based on this information would require his boss to state his reason for firing him, and stating the reason would be breaking the confidentiality agreement. So, your friend is very unfortunately safe.

This is a rather harsh response, and highlights your judgemental nature. This is something you'll have to confront in medicine. People do many illegal things. Whether it's smoking a joint, or speeding on the highway, you as a physician have to withhold that judgement and treat them regardless.

Whether you like it or not, many people feel that smoking marijuana is the same as drinking. True one is illegal and one is not. However, a group of people are fighting for the right to legalize marijuana because they believe that marijuana should be just as legal as alcohol. A lot more people than you may know of smoke marijuana and do so responsibly. Have you ever considered why the government chooses to legalize one drug (alcohol) and not another (marijuana)? It seems pretty arbitrary to me. So the adage of "just say no" to all drugs isn't as black and white as you may think.

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Scarletbegonias said:
If I was the PI, I would not let him go.

lol, from your screen name, I guess not :p ;)
 
i would have your friend do a couple of things -
1. talk to the PI, have a private conversation about what happened, tell him that you don't smoke regularly, and that you are embarrassed of what happened.
2. ask him if this is going to cause any problems for you + promise to be clean.
3. about a drug abuse program, you don't need one - and i wouldn't offer to do one or something like that. that would only certify that the problem is bigger than it probably is. if the PI asked you to do such a program, i would tell him or her that it is unnecessary for the above reasons, but that you'd be happy to do it if that would make the PI feel better.
4. ask what else you can do...
5. stop smoking for the time being in case of a drug test or something. it will all be clear in a month or less. furthermore, the PI can't just declare "random drug testing" -- that has privacy concerns, might need hospital approval, etc.

all in all, the advice is to have a private conversation to get it all out in the open, apologize, offer to make it up, and (very importantly) to end the matter in a single conversation.
 
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GuyLaroche said:
Children, don't do drugs. I hope your friend gets fired. That's the only way he'll learn.

I should say that I suspect he won't get fired. On what grounds can his PI fire him? To fire him based on this information would require his boss to state his reason for firing him, and stating the reason would be breaking the confidentiality agreement. So, your friend is very unfortunately safe.


WOW, lots of tolerance from this Guy!!! After you get off your throne when you're done judging all of the terrible people in the world who might have done drugs at some point, think of this. Imagine alcohol and pot were just discovered and the FDA was trying to figure out which of these, if any, should be legalized. Take a look at the long and short term affects of alcohol and then those of pot and try and tell me pot is worse for you than alcohol. And what about the affects on society? How many drunk driving deaths are there per year compared with stoned driving deaths (I'm assuming that's a category)? How many domestic disputes each year are attributed to alcohol and how many to pot? I'm not condoning the use of either of these substances, I'm just pointing out the hypocracy of the government and people like Guy Smiley here who always discuss the evils of marijuana over a nice glass of wine or a beer. Just my $.02
 
GuyLaroche,

I am relatively new to these boards, but have noticed your distinctive screen name around--- always talking smack. you are a real loser. is making fun of people on this message board your main form of pleasure? because a quick search shows your posts running from 8-9pm one night to 2-3am the next morning/the same night. Such timing indicates that you did nothing except maybe watch some TV (the oscars perhaps), and your main socializing came on the internet with people who you don't know, and who I would guess don't particularly like you.

Good luck in medical school - I'm sure you'll learn all the textbook stuff fine, do well in classes, etc. -- but will you ever learn to treat people 1) with respect or 2) without rubbing them the wrong way? I am skeptical.
 
I'm a recent newbie to SDN and I came upon this thread... think it did a great job of covering the trickiness of HIPAA which we will all need to understand once we're in med school. But I hate a story without a resolution, so to the OP (YesIAm), what ever became of your friend? Is he still working at the same job? How is his relationship with his PI? Are things really awkward? You said that the PI was going to write him a LOR... is that still going to happen (he should be thinking about asking people if he is planning on applying for next year's entering class). Feel free to PM me if you're more comfortable with that.
 
ratty05 said:
I'm a recent newbie to SDN and I came upon this thread... think it did a great job of covering the trickiness of HIPAA which we will all need to understand once we're in med school. But I hate a story without a resolution, so to the OP (YesIAm), what ever became of your friend? Is he still working at the same job? How is his relationship with his PI? Are things really awkward? You said that the PI was going to write him a LOR... is that still going to happen (he should be thinking about asking people if he is planning on applying for next year's entering class). Feel free to PM me if you're more comfortable with that.

Sorry for not following up sooner. Basically, the PI refused to write a "strong" LOR for my friend. Citing that because he know he was on pot, he would not write about his "well-roundedness" etc. He did not end up getting fired, as he was leaving for another position anyhow. However he lost his best chance at a strong LOR.

For those in similar positions, definately talk to the person of interest and get a chance to reconcile what may be left of your persona with them before asking them to write a letter, etc.
 
How soon after the incident did he ask for the letter? or had he asked before? It seemed a little soon to ask for one. I would've waited a while.

Did the PI say...NO letter at all...or I'll write you one, but it won't be strong.

When had he planned on leaving that position? I thought it had been a great experience for him.

Was the parting amicable?

Why do I care?
 
2tall said:
How soon after the incident did he ask for the letter? or had he asked before? It seemed a little soon to ask for one. I would've waited a while.

Did the PI say...NO letter at all...or I'll write you one, but it won't be strong.

When had he planned on leaving that position? I thought it had been a great experience for him.

Was the parting amicable?

Why do I care?

To set the record straight, my friend knew he was leaving his job to move away to finish a 1 yr informal post bacc before applying in 2006. He wanted to make sure that before he left, he could either take a letter or call upon his PI later next year. He just did not want to get fired and not have a job reference/LOR and have to eventually explain his situation. The PI was being honest in saying he could not possibly, morally write a strong LOR including my friends well-roundedness, etc. and while he did not flat out reject to write one, it was just as good as a rejection. Again for those in similar situations, I would try and talk to your boss to try to aviod a tense work atmosphere. If the boss is at all understanding (I think MD's are more personable then PHD's in the academic setting, but then, what about an MD/PhD? j/k), then there should be no problem. I think, going to the ER because of a drunken fall, vs. a flat out blackout due to down right illegal drug use are two things. One more forgiving in some people's eyes than others..you'll never settle unless you have open communication..Dr.Phil
 
that dog just won't hunt...dr. phil
 
Bob Saget: Why is everyone bringing up rehab for marijuana use? You gotta be kidding me!
Chappelle: I smoke marijuana
Bob Saget: Did you suck dick to get marijuana?
Chappelle: Uh no.
Bob Saget: I SUCKED DICK TO GET COCAINE DAMMIT. DID YOU SUCK DICK TO GET COCAINE?
Chappelle: Hell no.
Bob Saget: And that's why marijuana addiction isn't bad
 
As another new member to SDN, I have recently come upon this thread and have found it quite thought provoking, and I may possibly be taking this thread a bit off-topic from the original question, but let me give you some context. I am a current medical student who is very interested in examining the role of the id, ego, and superego in controlling an individual’s use of drugs and alcohol (yes, I am leaning towards a psychiatry specialty). I’m sure you’re all well aware of what the id, ego, and superego are, but just to give a very simplistic explanation for those who may have never heard of these terms, the “id” can be thought of as the subconscious “devil on the shoulder”, the “superego” as the subconscious “angel on the shoulder”, and the “ego” as the subconscious mediator of the two which keeps the overall person in balance (so neither the id nor the superego take total control).

Looking at the OP’s (YesIAm) original description of his friend’s scenario and subsequent actions, I just have a few questions for him as I find the case quite interesting. His friend, despite knowing that there would be consequences for his actions, chose to be honest with his boss and tell him the real reason for his admission to the hospital. He did not, as some of the other SDNers suggested, make up an excuse such as “Oh I just got lightheaded and hit my head, no big deal, I’ll be just fine. Thanks for your concern.” He spilled his guts. I for one think that takes a great deal of courage, and is a great example of the subconscious force of superego. While he did not end up losing his job, as the OP states of his friend, either already has or is going to leave his position to start a post-bacc program. Yet, he says his friend did suffer the consequence of losing what he says could have been his strongest LOR for med school applications as well as the embarrassment of his boss knowing that he is on pot.

Now I don’t know the OP friend’s history of marijuana use, nor am I condemning marijuana (as a matter of fact I am pro-legalization). And as far as the OP’s recent posts comparing this incident to a drunken fall, I have a feeling that the outcome of not getting an LOR would probably be the same in both incidents (being seen by a potential LOR writer/boss after passing out from marijuana use or alcohol will both be seen as a lapse in judgment – regardless of the legality of the substance). My question is, if the OP feels comfortable enough to share, after having lost his chance at a strong LOR, has this incident changed your friend’s drug use at all? Does he smoke less often, or does he do it more secretly? My theory is that your friend’s superego is quite strong, and that after having experienced this incident and with the knowledge that he is going on to further prepare for med school through a post-bacc program, that his actions may be somewhat different now. He will need to get LOR’s from people in his post-bacc program and will need to make good impressions at future med school interviews. I just wonder if this incident has changed him in any way. I know you said he moved away, but I’m hoping that you two still keep in touch. For one, you seem to care a great deal about your friend which I think he really needs, and for a second (much more admittedly selfish reason) I’m hoping that you’ll be able to answer my questions. You can PM me if you want. Thanks in advance!!
 
So we mention Dr. Phil and the psychoanalysts just come out of the woodwork.
 
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