Considering options

[Ibsen]

Stats:
MCAT 27 O
GPA 3.2/3.4 (3.11 from 18 years ago, 3.752 current)
Clinical experience: Many years as an RN
Volunteer experience: Community based, non-medical
Education: ADN, BS (graduating this year)
LOR's: 2 MD's and one professor

Limitations: I only want to go to school in state as I do not want to leave my children or husband (even though he is supportive of me doing so) for several years.

How do I change my application significantly enough to at least get an interview?? Both in-state schools rejected me without even talking to me. Although my MCAT score is not as competetive as I had hoped it would be, I have years of clinical experience, excellent LOR's and proven community leadership.

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[just one]

If you want an answer that means anything, we need to know what medical school you are talking about. Even without your answer, I think you know what needs to be done. Raise mcat and or GPA. Many schools will tell you what to improve after rejection. Their advice is essential.

 

[ShyRem]

I would get an appointment with the adcoms of the schools you want to get into and ask them directly what would make them look at you next year. We can speculate and give general advice - but your requirements are very specific and you need specific guidance here.

 

[gman33]

Your application just isn't very competitive for MD schools.
You need to make significant improvements to your GPA and MCAT.
Limiting yourself to a couple of schools, just makes it that much harder.

Clinical experience is great, but it won't do anything to offset poor stats.

To improve your chances you could try DO schools, or do a SMP and boost the MCAT.

 

[canjosh]

How much does this mean to you and your family? Obviously this a huge undertaking in many ways. Is moving your family with you out of the state completely out of the question? You'll be facing the same dilemma with the residency match.

Your GPA isn't going to budge much, so at minimum you probably should aim for 32+ on the MCAT next time around if we're talking MD schools in your state. The others' advice is spot on.

 

[Ibsen]

Thank you for your honest advice. I know my GPA will not change much. There's nothing I can do with that. And I also know my MCAT score was not the best. But do I even have a shot if all I can do to improve my application is increase the MCAT score?

Quite frankly, my GPA and MCAT were competetive for one of the schools to which I applied. However, they look for those who are definitely committed to rural medicine. I wouldn't be opposed to that, but since I haven't experienced rural medicine, I cna't say 100% that's what I want to do (and who can really say 100% that any specialty or venue is what they want to do......when I went to nursing school I "knew" peds was for me, but it didn't take long to realize that my heart was elsewhere).

If I applied OOS, I would be going alone. It is 100% unfeasable for my family to go with me. As for residency, I don't think there would be a problem getting something instate (esp since I am looking at FP).

How important is this? Well, in the past four years I have worked night shift and taken classes during the day while volunteering and running a household. I've studied at soccer games and dance recitals (and missed more than a lion's share of my children's events). So, I would say that it's pretty darn important (at least to me), but not enough so that I would leave all my kids to my husband for four years.

Oh and the school that I really want to attend will not even talk to me about my application until May 2010. By that time, there is no way to significantly improve the application for next year.

 

[just one]

What kind of upper division science classes have you taken and how did you do in them? While you may not be able to raise the GPA much, getting A's in upper division science courses looks great. And yes, improving your mcat most definitly will improve your chances. What kind of non-clinical volunteering do you have? As a nontrad with a wife, child, full time work load, I understand how hard it is to fit it in, but the truth of the matter is it is almost required.

 

[Ibsen]

Just One
I've taken Microbiology, Physiology, Anatomy, Bio Chemistry, Statistics and got A's in all of them. Currently in a Genetics class, no final grade yet.

Let's just say that my volunteer experiences prove strong leadership skills, the ability to manage a non-profit organization and coordinate fundraising events, and demonstrate community involvement.

 

[just one]

Sounds like it's MCAT/GPA then. Were Micro, physiology and anatomy upper division or lower division?

 

[Ibsen]

All were upper division. I only had to take the Chem series, Physics, one semester calc and upper division to complete my BS degree.

 

[canjosh]

What was your MCAT score breakdown?

And, wow, all those were upper division?! Jeez, even Organic is lower division at my UG!

I wasn't trying to question your personal motivation above, although I'm sure it came out that way. I was just trying to get a picture of how/why staying put is such a non-negotiable factor. Based on your response it's obviously not going to happen.

Is there a DO school in your state?

 

[Ibsen]

Vr 8
ps 9
bs 10

 

[sassilysweet]

It really sounds like you are applying to Minnesota (ie Duluth being the rural option), but either way, you can do what I know a lot of people do when they apply there (or to a similar program): Kiss butt and pretend rural med is for you, and when your last 2 years come around, have a "change of heart" "due to clinical experience" and not do rural med.

I personally was not willing to do this, but if you are limiting yourself to only two schools, raise that MCAT, apply EDP to the rural school with lower stats, and focus your personal statement on this. Find some sort of rural-related volunteer activity, make it your baby for the next year, and write the heck out of the experience.

Even if a program is geared toward rural practice, med school is med school and you should get the same basic education no matter what.

I see you have 2 LORs from MDs & one professor. Are you sure you are meeting the LOR requirements for your two in-state schools? Most require 2 science and a non-science from your undergrad. It is good to have a leadership and/or an MD letter, but make sure you have what you NEED.

 

[dragonfly99]

I agree with much of what was said above.
Your main problems are the MCAT score and GPA.
If you have experience working as an RN then the clinical volunteer work would be a little less important, I would think. If not much work experience yet as an RN then the adcoms may wonder why the career change and whether you've thought it through.

With the 27 MCAT the adcoms may wonder about your ability to do the work. So if you are so super constrained as to where you can go to school, then you are boxed...you MUST raise the MCAT score and the GPA as much as you can. In your situation I would be pulling out all the stops, taking Kaplan or Princeton Review, etc. if you are sure this is what you want to do. Personally with my 20/20 hindsight I think nursing is a pretty damn good career...a nurse of my age makes much more money than I do and works better hours, and I don't know any who are in 130k debt after being out of school 5+ years. Also, some patients have more respect for nurses (some more for docs...but definitely some for the nurses).

You don't have to wait for the adcom to tell you what the problems are in your application, because you know that the academics are a big one. Remember that the averages for accepted students are just averages...if you appear competitive for one of the schools in terms of "numbers" remember that there are many people with those same stats who don't get in. There are never enough spots any year for the number of qualified applicants...so it's not really a matter of clearing the bar but convincing the adcom that it's YOU they want and not somebody else. The personal statement and letters of rec. can help, but so does everything else, including the academic stuff. You should definitely make a point to talk to the adcoms next May and see what they say, but in the mean time you can keep working on the academic stuff.

I don't entirely disagree with the comment above about needing to make your application look like you may want to do rural medicine, if that is what the school wants. I'm not for totally lying, but IMHO the schools want what they want, and often throw out applications from people who don't "sound" like they are interested in rural medicine.

Being geographically constrained is a huge big deal just because sometimes an adcom doesn't take a liking to a particular applicant...if you've only applied once then you don't have to worry about that type of stuff yet though. Are there any DO schools in your area?

 

[ShyRem]

To play devil's advocate:

The other problem with geographical constraints that are so limiting is that adcoms may ask "does this person really want to be a doctor?" because frankly if you only apply to the convenient schools, that doesn't say much as to your desire. What if residency isn't convenient? If there aren't convenient job opportunities? Why should they take an applicant who will only be a doctor if it's convenient?

Not saying I agree with the above, just saying I've heard adcoms discuss such things with applicants who only apply to a select few schools.

 

[anavistas]

To play devil's advocate:

The other problem with geographical constraints that are so limiting is that adcoms may ask "does this person really want to be a doctor?" because frankly if you only apply to the convenient schools, that doesn't say much as to your desire. What if residency isn't convenient? If there aren't convenient job opportunities? Why should they take an applicant who will only be a doctor if it's convenient?

Not saying I agree with the above, just saying I've heard adcoms discuss such things with applicants who only apply to a select few schools.

How do adcoms want to find out which schools OP has applied to?

 

[dragonfly99]

Sometimes they'll ask you where you applied. And maybe they have some secret way of knowing, too?
I actually agree w/above. The problem of being so severely geographically constrained is that you can't know that you are going to get residency in the place(s) you wanted either. What if you had to move somewhere out of your town, or even your state, to do residency? Would your family move with you?

 

[Ibsen]

Thank you all for your input. I appreciate everyone's opinion, devil's advocate or not.

Have no doubt that I am dedicated to becoming a physician. However, there are personal circumstances that make a geographical relocation impossible for the next 4-5 years....which also answers the question "Would you be willing to move for residency?" Of course, I would. However, I will not wait another 4-5 years to apply (knowing I would have to retake most of the prerequisites). We all have to "pay" for our life choices and right now my payment is that I am not flexible in where I can go to school.

That being said, I was able to get a response from the admissions committe and I am satisfied that the issue (my MCAT score) is not hopeless. My LOR's meet (and exceed) the recommendations of the schools to which I applied....I asked prior to sending them.

As for lying to get into school.....that is something I just wouldn't do (although I might find a rural shadowing experience). Being a doctor is extremely important to me. It's what I have wanted to do my whole life (see above about paying for life choices). Integrity and honesty are important to my well-being (read---not a good liar).

And in response to nursing......yes, nursing is a GREAT career.....IF that's what one wants to do.

In any case, thank you so very, very much for your replies and suggestions.

 

[dragonfly99]

So I think that you just apply and make a hard run at any school(s) that are within your geographic area that you are willing to go to. If there are any DO schools in your immediate area, then I would definitely consider giving them a look too. You may end up having to apply more than once in your situation, since you are so limited as to where you are willing to go. I still think it might help to raise the MCAT, especially if no success on the 1st try at getting in.