Considering SMP as Non-Trad Reapplicant

[WildCat75]

Hello, not sure if I should have posted this in the more general Pre-Med forum but here it goes. I know it is still very early in the cycle to start making these kinds of judgements, but I am getting the feeling that this cycle is going to be a repeat of last year's cycle for me, and so I want to get a jump start on planning for the possibility/eventuality that I will have to apply for a third time.

So a little about my application. I applied last year with a 3.34 science GPA and 3.56 cumulative GPA from a top 10 undergrad, and a 513 MCAT in 2020. I had approx 200 hrs community service, 300 hrs scribing, and 1,000 hrs research. I applied to 20 schools received one interview, and was waitlisted. Reapplying this year, I have the same GPA and MCAT, but I now have approx 500 hrs community service, 100 hrs med volunteering, 2,600 hrs scribing, 2,000 hrs research., and 300 hrs in medical paid employment. I applied to 30 schools and have yet to receive any interview invites.

Assuming that I do not receive any interview invites by January, I am planning on starting to prepare to retake the MCAT between April and June 2022 since by the time I reapply, my MCAT score will probably be expired. I am also considering applying to a SMP. I feel like my app is solid enough except for my science GPA, especially because it is almost exclusively because of three quarters of orgo. So I was thinking that a SMP would be a good way of improving my app before I reapply. However, doing so would also require me to stop doing research and paid employment. I am also not sure if doing a SMP would actually make a big difference in increasing my chances.

I know this post is long and all over the place so I apologize for that, I am just trying to get all of my thoughts out now as I think this through. I am not currently considering DO programs but if applying a third time does not go well then I guess I will have no choice. If you stuck with me through this rambling post, I would appreciate any advice or insights into how I should proceed. Thank you.

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[GreenDuck12]

Question: why consider an SMP prior to applying to DO programs?

 

[WildCat75]

Question: why consider an SMP prior to applying to DO programs?

Absolutely nothing against DO programs, but I am just not interested in pursuing them right now and would rather focus on improving my chances of admission to MD programs.

 

[Faha]

Where is your state of residence ? Which schools did you apply to ?

 

[WildCat75]

Where is your state of residence ? Which schools did you apply to ?

I am in Illinois. Last cycle I was waitlisted at Rosalind Franklin.

This current cycle I applied to Albany, Albert Einstein, Boston University, Creighton, Drexel, Emory, Quinnipiac, Geisel, George Washington, Georgetown, Temple, Loyola, Medical College of Wisconsin, New York Medical College, Northwestern, Penn State, Rosalind Franklin, Rush, Sidney Kimmel Jefferson, SLU, Southern Illinois, Tufts, Tulane, University of Illinois, University of Miami, Wake Forest, Brown, Western Michigan.

I think my essays are solid enough and I have decent experience hours so I think that my science GPA is what is hurting my app. Basically, will doing a SMP improve my chances more than continuing with my current research and employment? I was considering post-bacc but I have already taken so many science courses my undergrad that I hardly see the point and I doubt it would be as impressive to med schools as doing a SMP.

 

[Faha]

I suggest adding more schools to your application this week. Consider all these:
TCU-UNT
NOVA MD
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
Seton Hall
Vermont
Doing well in a SMP is only marginally better than a doing well in DIY post bacc. There is no guarantee of a MD acceptance even if you do well in a SMP. You should apply to DO schools also and you are competitive for all DO schools.

 

[WildCat75]

I suggest adding more schools to your application this week. Consider all these:
TCU-UNT
NOVA MD
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
Seton Hall
Vermont
Doing well in a SMP is only marginally better than a doing well in DIY post bacc. There is no guarantee of a MD acceptance even if you do well in a SMP. You should apply to DO schools also and you are competitive for all DO schools.

Since I have already completed all of my pre-reqs during my undergrad, I was under the impression that donig a post-bacc would not help me since most med schools do not do grade replacement.

 

[Faha]

Since I have already completed all of my pre-reqs during my undergrad, I was under the impression that donig a post-bacc would not help me since most med schools do not do grade replacement.

You can take other undergraduate level science courses that you have not taken previously and they will count towards your sGPA.

 

[GreenDuck12]

Absolutely nothing against DO programs, but I am just not interested in pursuing them right now and would rather focus on improving my chances of admission to MD programs.

You've got a solid MCAT but your GPAs are quite a bit lower than the mean, especially your science GPA. I'm not convinced that an expensive masters program will help you with getting into MD programs specifically. As of now I think you have a great shot an a DO admission should you choose to add those programs to your application list while MD might be a bit of an uphill climb. If you opt not to include DO programs, I would focus on trying to improve your undergraduate GPA before another application cycle as that seems to be a weak point. Ideally, getting your sGPA and cGPA above a 3.6 would make you more viable based on the numbers. Look into upper level chemistry and biology courses: genetics, cell biology, microbiology, proteomics, anatomy and physiology, immunology, euro, etc would all be viable options and would be useful. More importantly your postbac GPA will be listed on a separate line from your prior years in school which helps an upward trend stand out. Maintaining or improving your MCAT would also help. But doing this would likely mean a year or two in between application cycles. Best of luck to you.

 

[Goro]

Hello, not sure if I should have posted this in the more general Pre-Med forum but here it goes. I know it is still very early in the cycle to start making these kinds of judgements, but I am getting the feeling that this cycle is going to be a repeat of last year's cycle for me, and so I want to get a jump start on planning for the possibility/eventuality that I will have to apply for a third time.

So a little about my application. I applied last year with a 3.34 science GPA and 3.56 cumulative GPA from a top 10 undergrad, and a 513 MCAT in 2020. I had approx 200 hrs community service, 300 hrs scribing, and 1,000 hrs research. I applied to 20 schools received one interview, and was waitlisted. Reapplying this year, I have the same GPA and MCAT, but I now have approx 500 hrs community service, 100 hrs med volunteering, 2,600 hrs scribing, 2,000 hrs research., and 300 hrs in medical paid employment. I applied to 30 schools and have yet to receive any interview invites.

Assuming that I do not receive any interview invites by January, I am planning on starting to prepare to retake the MCAT between April and June 2022 since by the time I reapply, my MCAT score will probably be expired. I am also considering applying to a SMP. I feel like my app is solid enough except for my science GPA, especially because it is almost exclusively because of three quarters of orgo. So I was thinking that a SMP would be a good way of improving my app before I reapply. However, doing so would also require me to stop doing research and paid employment. I am also not sure if doing a SMP would actually make a big difference in increasing my chances.

I know this post is long and all over the place so I apologize for that, I am just trying to get all of my thoughts out now as I think this through. I am not currently considering DO programs but if applying a third time does not go well then I guess I will have no choice. If you stuck with me through this rambling post, I would appreciate any advice or insights into how I should proceed. Thank you.

Beggars can't be choosy; you need to have DO schools on the list now.

You have an sGPA that is some 0.4 basis points below the median acceptee to MD schools, and a cGPA that is some 0.2 points below. If you had applied to DO schools last cycle, you'd be in med school right now, and will not have lost a year's worth of an attending salary.

 

[WildCat75]

You've got a solid MCAT but your GPAs are quite a bit lower than the mean, especially your science GPA. I'm not convinced that an expensive masters program will help you with getting into MD programs specifically. As of now I think you have a great shot an a DO admission should you choose to add those programs to your application list while MD might be a bit of an uphill climb. If you opt not to include DO programs, I would focus on trying to improve your undergraduate GPA before another application cycle as that seems to be a weak point. Ideally, getting your sGPA and cGPA above a 3.6 would make you more viable based on the numbers. Look into upper level chemistry and biology courses: genetics, cell biology, microbiology, proteomics, anatomy and physiology, immunology, euro, etc would all be viable options and would be useful. More importantly your postbac GPA will be listed on a separate line from your prior years in school which helps an upward trend stand out. Maintaining or improving your MCAT would also help. But doing this would likely mean a year or two in between application cycles. Best of luck to you.

Thank you for your input, this was very helpful. I have been looking at some post-bacc programs but it seems that they are all focused on bio and that was my strongest subject. The only science classes I did poorly in were orgo and physiology so I feel like my weakness in orgo specifically is what is killing my app and I do not know how to demonstrate competency in that area through a post-bacc.

Beggars can't be choosy; you need to have DO schools on the list now.

You have an sGPA that is some 0.4 basis points below the median acceptee to MD schools, and a cGPA that is some 0.2 points below. If you had applied to DO schools last cycle, you'd be in med school right now, and will not have lost a year's worth of an attending salary.

I understand that my scores are lower than median and that I would be competitive for DO schools. However, it is not about the money but rather about being able to pursue certain specialties that are very personally important to me. Obviously, if I strike out again, I will apply DO, but until that time comes, I want to do whatever I can to maximize my chances of getting into an MD program.

On a side note, I spoke to my undergrad pre-med advisor and she was of the opinion that despite my rather low GPA, because I have a very solid upward trend after sophomore year and I did my undergrad at a top ten university, that med schools would be less likely to judge my GPA as harshly. Since I am a reapplicant, though, there does not seem to be much truth to this.

Regardless, if I do not get in this cycle I will be a non-trad applicant and so there is the added dilemma of being able to get letters of rec since getting them from my undergrad faculty for a third time would probably be rather difficult, and that doing a post-bacc or SMP would be a good way of getting letters.

 

[DOcSto]

Obviously, if I strike out again, I will apply DO

Why not just apply DO now then? I’m similar in that I have interests across some specialties that are considered more competitive. At the end of the day I just want to be a doctor and the initials behind my name don’t matter to me. If I get into a DO school and strike out with MD then at least I’ll be moving closer to my goal. I also know I can find joy in other less competitive and DO friendly specialties anyway. Just my 2 cents, best of luck this cycle!

 

[GreenDuck12]

I spoke to my undergrad pre-med advisor and she was of the opinion that despite my rather low GPA, because I have a very solid upward trend after sophomore year and I did my undergrad at a top ten university, that med schools would be less likely to judge my GPA as harshly. Since I am a reapplicant, though, there does not seem to be much truth to this.

This tends to be the perception of premed advisors at said programs but I’m wondering if they have access to different data points as it doesn’t seem to bear out. The reality is it is quite difficult for programs to compare GPAs between schools - how is one to know if a 3.4 at top ten U is more challenging to attain than a 3.6 at State U? I suspect that with your GPA you might be running into some minimum cutoffs (assuming your written application is quite strong) and if that is the case then the name / brand of your uni wouldn’t really have a chance to come into play.

 

[WildCat75]

This tends to be the perception of premed advisors at said programs but I’m wondering if they have access to different data points as it doesn’t seem to bear out. The reality is it is quite difficult for programs to compare GPAs between schools - how is one to know if a 3.4 at top ten U is more challenging to attain than a 3.6 at State U? I suspect that with your GPA you might be running into some minimum cutoffs (assuming your written application is quite strong) and if that is the case then the name / brand of your uni wouldn’t really have a chance to come into play.

This makes a lot of sense thank you. I have looked at the MSAR stats for all of the schools I have applied to and other than maybe 2-3 on my list, I am in the 10th-50th percentile for science and cumulative GPA for all of the rest, and I did get an interview and waitlist last cycle so I am not sure I am getting screened out on my GPA, I just think I am overall less competitive than others with similar GPAs who are admitted and probably have something more standout on their app than I do.

if I were to do a post-bacc, I could probably get my science GPA to at least 3.4, maybe higher, depending on where I do it. If there is no emphasis placed on the institution, why not just do it at my CC.

I was thinking that doing a SMP would be a good way to demonstrate my continued upward trend since my sophomore year and also get me letters of rec and connections to the med school I am applying to. I am particularly interested in staying in Illinois so I am really looking at Rosalind Franklin’s SMP, but I fear that it will just be a waste of money if they are just going to reject me afterward anyway. However, since I was waitlisted last cycle at RF, I guess they cannot hate me so much that I am an automatic rejection.

 

[LindaAccepted]

If you do well in the SMP or post-bac program aimed at academic enhancers, especially if you attend a program with a linkage, you will enhance your chances of acceptance.

Finally, don't assume that you essay and experiences were strong given the number of rejections you're received. I agree with you that your science GPA and those orgo grades probably played a major role. But if there were weaknesses in your essays and activity descriptions, you need to know about them before you reapply again.