Considering quitting school -- what can I do with my Bachelors?

[2BorNot2B]

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Just started 2nd year, and it's beginning to confirm some longstanding doubts of my ability to handle the emotional stresses of medical training and the profession. My problem now is that I can't think of many desirable aternatives for a person of my background:

I have a BS in General Biology but no molecular bio lab courses or skills, so does that effectively rule out working in Biotech or Pharm industries? What about consulting for the bio industry -- is that something that requires an economics background? I'm hoping to find a starting salary of around 40-55K, but don't know if that's reasonable these days. I've never really thought about alternatives to med school, so I'm paying for my naivity...sigh.

Thought about switching to optometry school, but I don't think I can take out any more loans...worried that I won't be able to feed a family once I'm working and in repayment. Appreciate any words of wisdom. thanks...

😕

 

[ddmo]

You could go for your teaching certificate and teach high school biology. However, a lot of schools want you to also have a minor. Although, at 40K, it's going to take a long time to pay off even 1 years worth of school loans.

I suggest you stop focusing on how you are dealing with the emotional stresses, and start kicking ass in med school. There are plenty of fields out there that aren't considered to have tons of emotional stress. Plus, although your debt load will be a lot higher, you would be very marketable with an MD, even without a residency if you wanted to do something besides being a physician. Lots of pharm and business opps.

 

[skypilot]

Just started 2nd year, and it's beginning to confirm some longstanding doubts of my ability to handle the emotional stresses of medical training and the profession. My problem now is that I can't think of many desirable aternatives for a person of my background:

I have a BS in General Biology but no molecular bio lab courses or skills, so does that effectively rule out working in Biotech or Pharm industries? What about consulting for the bio industry -- is that something that requires an economics background? I'm hoping to find a starting salary of around 40-55K, but don't know if that's reasonable these days. I've never really thought about alternatives to med school, so I'm paying for my naivity...sigh.

Thought about switching to optometry school, but I don't think I can take out any more loans...worried that I won't be able to feed a family once I'm working and in repayment. Appreciate any words of wisdom. thanks...

😕

Do you still want to be a scientist? How about a Masters or PhD program? You could hop right into a science program and then transfer later into a degree program.

You could certainly work in Biotech if you live in an area that has lots of Biotech. I think starting salaries are around 40k in Boston.

Are you sure you won't be happier when you hit the Wards in 10 months? There are careers in medicine like Path, Rads, Psych that would have a very different set of demands than the Internal Medicine.

 

[2BorNot2B]

Yeah, forgot to mention that I did some teaching before school, and don't think I want to go back...classroom management is one animal I def. don't think I'm cut out for, but thanx for the suggestion.

Yeah, true, I can stick it out for my MD and do something other than patient care. I'd avoid research if I could help it. What exactly are some of the things I could do with an MD in business, pharm, or I guess even public health...I suppose an MPH or MBA is important.

Skypilot, can you clarify the difference between a science program and degree program? also, are you saying that I should ideally have some graduate work to gain skills needed to enter Biotech...am i understanding correctly?

Yeah, I could try to stick it out. we're getting into deeper issues, but suffice to say, some longstanding clin. depression that hasn't improved much with anything, plus some serious doubts of having the "right" motives for entering medicine, makes everything ahead seem much more daunting. Hard to picture myself getting by the nights on call, the abuse from the attendings, the patient load, the pressure to perform....without cracking under it all, y'know?

 

[Shodddy18]

I had a few undergrad profs who were medical doctors instead of PhDs. These were the best pros I have ever had. I had some of them for anatomy, pathophys, cardio phys and neuro anatomy/science. Of course they didnt teach medicine to undergrads, but their knowledge of medicine allowed them to use pathophysiolgy and drug mechanisms as a great teaching tool for normal physiology. Im sure they make good money too.

 

[docsuz]

Don't quit, stick it out. How about work with a pharmaceutical company. It pays very well and the pressure is quite less. That way you might not have to complete a residency either.

 

[skypilot]

Yeah, true, I can stick it out for my MD and do something other than patient care. I'd avoid research if I could help it. What exactly are some of the things I could do with an MD in business, pharm, or I guess even public health...I suppose an MPH or MBA is important.

Skypilot, can you clarify the difference between a science program and degree program? also, are you saying that I should ideally have some graduate work to gain skills needed to enter Biotech...am i understanding correctly?

Oh, I was just saying that you could enroll as a special student in a non degree program while you are applying to full fledged PhD or Masters degree programs. You could use the time to gain skills in Biotech.

Usually enrolling as a non degree student is easy and just requires filling out a few forms.

How about just getting an MPH and focusing on Public Health? That would be an interesting career.

I think you need some career counseling to find out where your interests truly lie.

I also believe that medicine can be depressing and there are many depressed people working in medicine so if you find that medicine is where your true calling lies, there is nothing stopping you.

Being unemployed and without a social network can be pretty tough too so look carefully before you make a move.

Good luck.

 

[synapse lapse]

How about the cheesecake factory? J/K, I think you should consider sticking it out and getting a consultant job or something else. If you know you don't want to practice medicine then you don't have to worry about getting good grades or anything, though I would still try to in case you change your mind. Most people end up also doing their internship year so that they can get licensed just in case they ever want to go back, but that's up to you. Have you considered pharmacy or dental school? How about law school or another graduate program? The former 3 have salaries that can cover the cost of education, and most grad programs are paid for, so maybe that's an option. Good Luck.

 

[closertofine]

Yeah, I could try to stick it out. we're getting into deeper issues, but suffice to say, some longstanding clin. depression that hasn't improved much with anything, plus some serious doubts of having the "right" motives for entering medicine, makes everything ahead seem much more daunting. Hard to picture myself getting by the nights on call, the abuse from the attendings, the patient load, the pressure to perform....without cracking under it all, y'know?

wow, have you been reading my mind? seriously, though, I can definitely relate...I'm a 2nd year as well...PM me if you want to talk.

 

[cfdavid]

Yeah, forgot to mention that I did some teaching before school, and don't think I want to go back...classroom management is one animal I def. don't think I'm cut out for, but thanx for the suggestion.

Yeah, true, I can stick it out for my MD and do something other than patient care. I'd avoid research if I could help it. What exactly are some of the things I could do with an MD in business, pharm, or I guess even public health...I suppose an MPH or MBA is important.

Skypilot, can you clarify the difference between a science program and degree program? also, are you saying that I should ideally have some graduate work to gain skills needed to enter Biotech...am i understanding correctly?

Yeah, I could try to stick it out. we're getting into deeper issues, but suffice to say, some longstanding clin. depression that hasn't improved much with anything, plus some serious doubts of having the "right" motives for entering medicine, makes everything ahead seem much more daunting. Hard to picture myself getting by the nights on call, the abuse from the attendings, the patient load, the pressure to perform....without cracking under it all, y'know?

How about an SSRI? This should help with the depression, and also with the stress. If you haven't found the right drug, perhaps it's time to change up or something.

I'd stick it out. Remember, you don't need to gun in order to get the MD. Also, medicine is SO diverse that you're bound to run into something you'll enjoy. I think you should look further into your depression though. It may be a big cause of your current thinking.

Good luck.

 

[Hoya11]

IMHO your best option is staying in school.

You got throught he first year right? So odds are you will make it through the second year. Then, your in the hospital and its a totally different ballgame. You just go through the motions, in a blink of the eye you will be making 200k as the boss doing whatever/whenever and not dealing with anyone who pisses you off.

You are buying into the profession with all of this effort and struggle, but keep in mind there is a huge payoff coming soon in terms of freedom and quality of life. You have already paid some, it seems wasteful to quit now, there IS a light at the end of the tunnel you just have to get through right now.

I know from similar experience that one of the hardest things about med school is learning to shut up and do whatever someone asks of you regardless of how pointless it is, with a grin on your face. Lots of kids come in already happy to go through hell from god knows what horrible previous experiences they have had, some dont like me and you have to adjust. Its just part of the game, and when the game is over, your life is pretty good.

 

[GED MD]

If it's the depression that's the big or underlying factor here, consider taking a year off to getting it addressed. As a Biologically Based Mental Illness, it should qualify as a sick leave versus a personal leave. By virtue of being in the medical establishment, you should be able to make some connections to get the best qualified professionals on your team. I don't know what state you're in, but all states have some sort of Physician Health Program that will act as an advocate for you to help you navigate your options. Their entire purpose is to help us all going. They are also confidential, even with your school). So, don't give up yet, you've still got a lot of allies.

 

[Dire Straits]

IMHO your best option is staying in school.

You got throught he first year right? So odds are you will make it through the second year. Then, your in the hospital and its a totally different ballgame. You just go through the motions, in a blink of the eye you will be making 200k as the boss doing whatever/whenever and not dealing with anyone who pisses you off.

You are buying into the profession with all of this effort and struggle, but keep in mind there is a huge payoff coming soon in terms of freedom and quality of life. You have already paid some, it seems wasteful to quit now, there IS a light at the end of the tunnel you just have to get through right now.

I know from similar experience that one of the hardest things about med school is learning to shut up and do whatever someone asks of you regardless of how pointless it is, with a grin on your face. Lots of kids come in already happy to go through hell from god knows what horrible previous experiences they have had, some dont like me and you have to adjust. Its just part of the game, and when the game is over, your life is pretty good.

with all due respect, that is some of the biggest crock i have heard. you will ALWAYS have to deal with people that piss you off as a doctor, the "game" is never over, and sometimes there is no "light at the end of the tunnel" or any other cliches you've managed to throw around. lots of med students and docs thought that it would eventually get better, and guess what it didn't. that's why you see so many bitter docs that hate medicine...because it doesn't necessarily get better the further you progress, rather the rules of the "game" change and the problems get more complex.

 

[prayerfulMD_MPH2009]

I will tell you this. Please try treating the depression before making your final decision. I worked for 5 years: teaching, research before med school and I will tell you that emotional stress is everywhere.

There is always some Big Brother breathing down your back demanding that you do it better. In medicine, it's just more obvious.

If you cannot find a way to adapt to change and stressful situation, any field would be difficult to adjust to, especially medicine.

You know yourself better than I do and for you to have made all the sacrifices to make it this far ,when thousands of others can not , speak a lot for your abilities and initial motivation. Please reconsider when in better health and if it is still your decision then quit.

Good luck either way,

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

There is no emotional stress in Chatsworth, California.

They're always looking for guys to do pornos.

 

[Elysium]

with all due respect, that is some of the biggest crock i have heard. you will ALWAYS have to deal with people that piss you off as a doctor, the "game" is never over, and sometimes there is no "light at the end of the tunnel" or any other cliches you've managed to throw around. lots of med students and docs thought that it would eventually get better, and guess what it didn't. that's why you see so many bitter docs that hate medicine...because it doesn't necessarily get better the further you progress, rather the rules of the "game" change and the problems get more complex.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

👍

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Yeah, true, I can stick it out for my MD and do something other than patient care. I'd avoid research if I could help it. What exactly are some of the things I could do with an MD in business, pharm, or I guess even public health...I suppose an MPH or MBA is important.

Yeah, I could try to stick it out. we're getting into deeper issues, but suffice to say, some longstanding clin. depression that hasn't improved much with anything, plus some serious doubts of having the "right" motives for entering medicine, makes everything ahead seem much more daunting. Hard to picture myself getting by the nights on call, the abuse from the attendings, the patient load, the pressure to perform....without cracking under it all, y'know?

I am sorry about your troubles and doubts. I typed in a long response and my computer crashed. After 4000 posts, I need to learn to clip-n-paste my responses into Word before submitting a reply.

I recommend that you finish your M.D. degree. You'll have numerous opportunities available to you in consulting work, the pharm industry, organizing clinical trials, and business. The types of businesses you can launch or be involved with are limited only by your imagination. Also, there's nothing in a MPH or MBA program that you cannot learn yourself.

You should consider the points in one of my old treads on financial independence:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=194496

The thread refers to a book called Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Kiyosaki. Here is what Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad Page 139-140) says:

A business consultant who specializes in the medical trade was telling me how many doctors, dentists and chiropractors struggle financially. All this time, I thought that when they graduated, the dollars would pour in. It was this business consultant who gave me the phrase. "They are one skill away from great wealth." What this phrase means is that most people need only to learn and master one more skill and their income would jump exponentially. I have mentioned before that financial intelligence is a synergy of accounting, investing, marketing, and law. Combine these four technical skills and making money with money is easier. When it comes to money, the only skill most people know is to work hard.

Physicians are notorious for being really focused, which makes good specialists but poor entrepreneurs. The successful entrepreneurs are really the "B" students with many interests.

I recommend that you work out your depression, which can be done through medication in conjunction with good nutrition, regular excercise, and therapy. Then focus on your new opportunities. Often, with an open and clear mind, you'll see opportunities that others around you in the same situation will not.

 

[Hoya11]

with all due respect, that is some of the biggest crock i have heard. you will ALWAYS have to deal with people that piss you off as a doctor, the "game" is never over, and sometimes there is no "light at the end of the tunnel" or any other cliches you've managed to throw around. lots of med students and docs thought that it would eventually get better, and guess what it didn't. that's why you see so many bitter docs that hate medicine...because it doesn't necessarily get better the further you progress, rather the rules of the "game" change and the problems get more complex.

uh?
so many bitter docs hate medicine?
i dont have this negative an outlook on things, it sux now but in the end you are a doctor
sounds like you arent too happy
and yes i do think lots of med school can be a psychological game that results in feelings like this, lose the anger.
peace

 

[Dire Straits]

uh?
so many bitter docs hate medicine?
i dont have this negative an outlook on things, it sux now but in the end you are a doctor
sounds like you arent too happy
and yes i do think lots of med school can be a psychological game that results in feelings like this, lose the anger.
peace

yeah all doctors are happy in your little happy fantasy world hoya. just because you finish med school and get handed a diploma that say's you're a doctor that means you have attained the path to happiness. if that were true i wonder why physicians have among the highest rates of substance abuse and suicide among professionals. get real and come back with something other than a trite response. you sound like a premed who thinks everything will be perfect once they get into med school.

 

[2BorNot2B]

Yeah, I'm gonna see my school psychiatrist this week about trying another med. The thing right now that's keeping me from straight up leaving campus is the fact that I've already put in so much effort into this, and finishing a hell of a 1st year through my depression has given me a lil boost of confidence in my ability to stick it out. but i dunno.

Several folks mentioned working in the Pharm industry as an MD...could you give some examples?

thanks everyone 😳

 

[MD Rapper]

x

 

[2BorNot2B]

Any recommendations on books or resources that would help give me an idea of what the different specialities are like? I realize I don't understand the breadth of opportunities that clinical med has to offer. thanks again

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Several folks mentioned working in the Pharm industry as an MD...could you give some examples?

1) medical consultant
2) research & development of new treatments
3) sales & marketing
4) directing clinical trials

Try searching on the Google too...

 

[Hoya11]

yeah all doctors are happy in your little happy fantasy world hoya. just because you finish med school and get handed a diploma that say's you're a doctor that means you have attained the path to happiness. if that were true i wonder why physicians have among the highest rates of substance abuse and suicide among professionals. get real and come back with something other than a trite response. you sound like a premed who thinks everything will be perfect once they get into med school.

I was trying to be encouraging.

If you think life after med school is the same stress as med school you are ******ed. Unless you are just an unhappy person in general....which.. may not be so far off here.

Your arrogant and dumber than you think.

Repeat: Serenity now... serenity now...

 

[Dire Straits]

I was trying to be encouraging.

more like trying to tell people what they want to hear instead of the reality.

If you think life after med school is the same stress as med school you are ******ed.

now i'm convinced you are either a premed or somebody else who doesn't have a clue about the reality of working as a resident or attending after med school.

Your arrogant and dumber than you think.

hmmm...dishing out the personal insults...looks like somebody's getting defensive about me calling out their B.S.

 

[2BorNot2B]

well, in response to the running debate, I'll just play middle ground and say that it's difficult to make comparisons between people's satisfication with medicine as everyone has a different experience...

But if you're curious, here are the biggest reasons for my doubts and fears -- plz take a look and tell me what comes to mind -- especially any 3rd or 4th years on this thread, thanks--

-clinical depression that's been so far intractable even with several different meds, and have been seen by many psychiatrists.
-severe performance anxiety in front of superiors, difficult to communicate with them effectively -- how am I gonna handle myself around my residents and attendings?
-concerned that my people skills are inadequate -- awkward around patients, classmates, and preceptors
-sometimes wonder if I really care about a patient's problems when I'm talkign to them
-fear of long sleepless nights, not used to working even a 40 hr/week job
-and, of course, inadequacy complexes

So, is it time for me to sell my books, pack up, and hit the road?
😕

 

[2BorNot2B]

well, in response to the running debate, I'll just play middle ground and say that it's difficult to make comparisons between people's satisfication with medicine as everyone has a different experience...

But if you're curious, here are the biggest reasons for my doubts and fears -- plz take a look and tell me what comes to mind -- especially any 3rd or 4th years on this thread, thanks--

-clinical depression that's been so far intractable even with several different meds, and have been seen by many psychiatrists.
-severe performance anxiety in front of superiors, difficult to communicate with them effectively -- how am I gonna handle myself around my residents and attendings?
-concerned that my people skills are inadequate -- awkward around patients, classmates, and preceptors
-sometimes wonder if I really care about a patient's problems when I'm talkign to them
-fear of long sleepless nights, not used to working even a 40 hr/week job
-and, of course, inadequacy complexes

So, is it time for me to sell my books, pack up, and hit the road?
😕

 

[shorrin]

-clinical depression that's been so far intractable even with several different meds, and have been seen by many psychiatrists.

that's tough but may not be impossible. med school probably can't make your depression any better and may even be worse *at times*. You'll know when those times come up and make sure that you have someone to talk to esp. another med student because we All go through it All and sometimes knowing that you are NOT alone in your feelings, thoughts and experiences may just be enough to help you feel better and wake up and do it again tomorrow.

-severe performance anxiety in front of superiors, difficult to communicate with them effectively -- how am I gonna handle myself around my residents and attendings?

I don't know anyone who does not get nervous around "superiors" including pt's 😉. Think of attendings as teachers who are ultimately on YOUR side and there to teach YOU. You are paying for this experience afterall and often times they are paid, albeit a small amount, to have you there. Not only that you are a tremendous resource in terms of getting stuff done. Not to mention that even though it's like scaling a mountain in terms of that anxiety you WILL reach a plateau, and things will get easier and your confidence will grow.

Mine has, I retorted to an attending in surgery today after they made a snide comment towards me.... what did they say/do??? NOTHING.

-concerned that my people skills are inadequate -- awkward around patients, classmates, and preceptors

We ALL feel inadequate at your point, and those few rare people who feel as though they are not are conceited and arrogant and it will show on the wards. Yes you need confidence and you WILL get it but that fake kind don't getcha as far as a little humility does.

-sometimes wonder if I really care about a patient's problems when I'm talkign to them

yeah man I hear that. But that will be true for ANYBODY that you meet. That annoying law student who thinks he's got it all figured out or the simpering overly dramatic "theater" student, well you get my drift I hope that patients are PEOPLE, some you will like and some you'd rather never see again but you try for a little patience and compassion and if that doesn't get you through, you just act professionally and do your job. Remember the Narcississtic PD in psych and how the "physician gets bored of listening to them"? well there you go, you can't expect to like or have sympathy for everyone but you can do your job.

-fear of long sleepless nights, not used to working even a 40 hr/week job

that's normal. after two years of medical school, you want a long break, not boards and a 60 hour work week - but you get through it. I tell you leaving after a call night at 9am when your peers are getting in can be the best feeling in the world.

-and, of course, inadequacy complexes

We are in a profession that unfortunatley breeds inadequate feelings in thier young. I guess it's a growing thing, or a hazing thing (some might say) but you do get hard teachers and mean teachers and softies, who don't push you to get better but are nice and the really good teachers who are kind but push you and help you to better.

You seem a fairly run of the mill med student to me. Not only have I shared your thoughts but have listened to others who also have them and work through them. As they say there is a place in medicine for all types and if you found that you truly do not enjot pt contact there are always certain specialties that minimize that. As for depression, it sounds very rough and I cannot speak to that except that make sure you have support and when you need a day off don't even feel bad to take it!

hope that helps - shorrin M4

 

[rosslyn99]

Any recommendations on books or resources that would help give me an idea of what the different specialities are like? I realize I don't understand the breadth of opportunities that clinical med has to offer. thanks again

There's a book titled "How to Choose a Medical Specialty" by Anita D. Taylor that I found very informative.

I hear your pain. Maybe my experiences can put a different perspective on your situation. I finished 1 & 2 year of med school & passed Step 1, but withdrew during 3rd year. Now, 1.5 years later, I'm going to try and go back by applying as a transfer student.

I've been working as a contractor for the National Library of Medicine on consumer health information. I like it, get paid better than the average resident's salary, and the public health/public policy aspects are very interesting. The new head of our project is an M.D. trained in psychiatry, but worked for the AHRQ previously. So, there are lots of opportunities out there for MD's. You just have to search for them. I met an MD who left during his surgical residency & now is at a top position at a company that produces simulations of medical procedures.

But now I want to go back because of the greater impact I can make on healthcare as an MD. I was depressed & had bad anxiety (performance anxiety, social phobia, feelings of inadequacy, the works!) when I decided to leave & now those reasons just aren't good enough. So, have a clear head & get treated before making a final decision. You could ask for a leave of absence & get a job and see how you like it. Maybe it'll help to put things in perspective. If you know medical school isn't for you, that's ok too. As long as you work hard at finding a job, things will be alright.

There's good advice out there in this thread you started. You'll definitely have stress whether you're in medicine or not, but don't cheat yourself & give up. If I could do it all over again, I would just study my @$$ off, learn as much as possible, and forget about all the doubts I had about myself. That's my plan as a transfer student. I can't wait!

Good luck. Try to see the bright side of things. Listening to The Killers always picks me up.

Sorry this was so long everyone! Hopefully, it helped.

 

[cindy4443]

well, in response to the running debate, I'll just play middle ground and say that it's difficult to make comparisons between people's satisfication with medicine as everyone has a different experience...

But if you're curious, here are the biggest reasons for my doubts and fears -- plz take a look and tell me what comes to mind -- especially any 3rd or 4th years on this thread, thanks--

-clinical depression that's been so far intractable even with several different meds, and have been seen by many psychiatrists.
-severe performance anxiety in front of superiors, difficult to communicate with them effectively -- how am I gonna handle myself around my residents and attendings?
-concerned that my people skills are inadequate -- awkward around patients, classmates, and preceptors
-sometimes wonder if I really care about a patient's problems when I'm talkign to them
-fear of long sleepless nights, not used to working even a 40 hr/week job
-and, of course, inadequacy complexes

So, is it time for me to sell my books, pack up, and hit the road?
😕

The most important thing you can do now is get help for your depression. Keep working as hard as you can to find a solution that works for you. It is hard, and I feel almost impossible, to think clearly and make good rational decisions when depressed. I have been there. Take a leave of absence if you have too, but get the best solution for your depression first before deciding about medical school. Once you are feeling better and your mood, spirit, karma, whatever you call it, is in order you will make the best decisions for yourself. I won't say "look on the bright side" etc. as I find that to be trite advice and useless for those of us who know what clinical depression is. However, you can find a solution. The work is hard, but you are no stranger to that as a medical student. Being happy with yourself and in your own skin is the most important thing. Being a great doctor or great something else will flow from that. Get good help and you will find your niche no doubt.

 

[caribana]

There's a book titled "How to Choose a Medical Specialty" by Anita D. Taylor that I found very informative.

I hear your pain. Maybe my experiences can put a different perspective on your situation. I finished 1 & 2 year of med school & passed Step 1, but withdrew during 3rd year. Now, 1.5 years later, I'm going to try and go back by applying as a transfer student.

I've been working as a contractor for the National Library of Medicine on consumer health information. I like it, get paid better than the average resident's salary, and the public health/public policy aspects are very interesting. The new head of our project is an M.D. trained in psychiatry, but worked for the AHRQ previously. So, there are lots of opportunities out there for MD's. You just have to search for them. I met an MD who left during his surgical residency & now is at a top position at a company that produces simulations of medical procedures.

But now I want to go back because of the greater impact I can make on healthcare as an MD. I was depressed & had bad anxiety (performance anxiety, social phobia, feelings of inadequacy, the works!) when I decided to leave & now those reasons just aren't good enough. So, have a clear head & get treated before making a final decision. You could ask for a leave of absence & get a job and see how you like it. Maybe it'll help to put things in perspective. If you know medical school isn't for you, that's ok too. As long as you work hard at finding a job, things will be alright.

There's good advice out there in this thread you started. You'll definitely have stress whether you're in medicine or not, but don't cheat yourself & give up. If I could do it all over again, I would just study my @$$ off, learn as much as possible, and forget about all the doubts I had about myself. That's my plan as a transfer student. I can't wait!

Good luck. Try to see the bright side of things. Listening to The Killers always picks me up.

Sorry this was so long everyone! Hopefully, it helped.

I am having a similar dilemma. It wasn't until that I decided that medicine was the route I wanted to take that I started having major anxiety attacks, I had mini-ones but lately it's been to the point where I can't even speak without stuttering and I'm a pretty big mouth/opinionated individual otherwise.

I am not even in medical school and I feel like I can't hang. I am currently enrolled in a Master's program and it simulates you're first year of medical school and the Gross Anatomy has it out for me. I feel overwhelmed and unhappy because I cannot do the other things I like. My class is extremely competitive and although we are not graded on curves, you tend to feel like crap when everyone else is complaining about 92s and 96s on a histology exam and you're desperately trying to had a 78. I do admit that it's alot nicer than undergrad in the sense everyone tries to work together.

I am currently applying and I'm not sure about what will happen. This whole process has been a struggle from the very outset and it seems as if I am debating if this is what I want to do every other year. I feel some obligation to carry out this dream because so many people told me I might not become a doctor and I want to prove them wrong, I really like the prestige assoc. with the MD--it's not even about the mony, I like ppl thinking of me as "smart", I want to do this because I was the first child in my family to attend/graduate from an elite institution and I want to do big things. I also feeled compelled because there are a lack of minority doctors and I feel that I'm needed.

On the other hand, I will accumulate over $50,000 worth of debt before starting medical school, I will be in in school/residency until I'm about 35--I'm 23, never dated and would like to have a family at some point (I don't see how this is feasible if I become a doctor). I want to retire by the time I'm 50 and open a small clinic. I have really become engrossed with the idea of becoming a nurse practitioner.

I'm sorry this is long but I would appreciate your responses as well.

 

[caribana]

There's a book titled "How to Choose a Medical Specialty" by Anita D. Taylor that I found very informative.

I hear your pain. Maybe my experiences can put a different perspective on your situation. I finished 1 & 2 year of med school & passed Step 1, but withdrew during 3rd year. Now, 1.5 years later, I'm going to try and go back by applying as a transfer student.

I've been working as a contractor for the National Library of Medicine on consumer health information. I like it, get paid better than the average resident's salary, and the public health/public policy aspects are very interesting. The new head of our project is an M.D. trained in psychiatry, but worked for the AHRQ previously. So, there are lots of opportunities out there for MD's. You just have to search for them. I met an MD who left during his surgical residency & now is at a top position at a company that produces simulations of medical procedures.

But now I want to go back because of the greater impact I can make on healthcare as an MD. I was depressed & had bad anxiety (performance anxiety, social phobia, feelings of inadequacy, the works!) when I decided to leave & now those reasons just aren't good enough. So, have a clear head & get treated before making a final decision. You could ask for a leave of absence & get a job and see how you like it. Maybe it'll help to put things in perspective. If you know medical school isn't for you, that's ok too. As long as you work hard at finding a job, things will be alright.

There's good advice out there in this thread you started. You'll definitely have stress whether you're in medicine or not, but don't cheat yourself & give up. If I could do it all over again, I would just study my @$$ off, learn as much as possible, and forget about all the doubts I had about myself. That's my plan as a transfer student. I can't wait!

Good luck. Try to see the bright side of things. Listening to The Killers always picks me up.

Sorry this was so long everyone! Hopefully, it helped.

I am having a similar dilemma. It wasn't until that I decided that medicine was the route I wanted to take that I started having major anxiety attacks, I had mini-ones but lately it's been to the point where I can't even speak without stuttering and I'm a pretty big mouth/opinionated individual otherwise.

I am not even in medical school and I feel like I can't hang. I am currently enrolled in a Master's program and it simulates you're first year of medical school and the Gross Anatomy has it out for me. I feel overwhelmed and unhappy because I cannot do the other things I like. My class is extremely competitive and although we are not graded on curves, you tend to feel like crap when everyone else is complaining about 92s and 96s on a histology exam and you're desperately trying to had a 78. I do admit that it's alot nicer than undergrad in the sense everyone tries to work together.

I am currently applying and I'm not sure about what will happen. This whole process has been a struggle from the very outset and it seems as if I am debating if this is what I want to do every other year. I feel some obligation to carry out this dream because so many people told me I might not become a doctor and I want to prove them wrong, I really like the prestige assoc. with the MD--it's not even about the mony, I like ppl thinking of me as "smart", I want to do this because I was the first child in my family to attend/graduate from an elite institution and I want to do big things. I also feeled compelled because there are a lack of minority doctors and I feel that I'm needed.

On the other hand, I will accumulate over $50,000 worth of debt before starting medical school, I will be in in school/residency until I'm about 35--I'm 23, never dated and would like to have a family at some point (I don't see how this is feasible if I become a doctor). I want to retire by the time I'm 50 and open a small clinic. I have really become engrossed with the idea of becoming a nurse practitioner.

I'm sorry this is long but I would appreciate your responses as well.

 

[rosslyn99]

well, in response to the running debate, I'll just play middle ground and say that it's difficult to make comparisons between people's satisfication with medicine as everyone has a different experience...

But if you're curious, here are the biggest reasons for my doubts and fears -- plz take a look and tell me what comes to mind -- especially any 3rd or 4th years on this thread, thanks--

-clinical depression that's been so far intractable even with several different meds, and have been seen by many psychiatrists.
-severe performance anxiety in front of superiors, difficult to communicate with them effectively -- how am I gonna handle myself around my residents and attendings?
-concerned that my people skills are inadequate -- awkward around patients, classmates, and preceptors
-sometimes wonder if I really care about a patient's problems when I'm talkign to them
-fear of long sleepless nights, not used to working even a 40 hr/week job
-and, of course, inadequacy complexes

So, is it time for me to sell my books, pack up, and hit the road?
😕

First, my apologies if my "try to see the brightside" offended you. I was not trying to make light of your situation. I didn't read your message about the intractable depression. Of course professional help is needed for depression & anxiety especially since thoughts of hurting oneself can often arise.

At the same time though, being able to control one's emotions and thoughts are very important. Often forcing yourself to see the brightside is necessary in life, not just in medicine. Or at the very least, block out the negative. Adages sound trite, but often hold some truth. A tool to help dispel unrealistic negative thoughts are often used in the treatment for depression, namely cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). A combination of medication & CBT has been shown to have lasting effects in the treatment for depression and anxiety. Here are some websites to clarify.

http://familydoctor.org/046.xml
http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic532.htm

Try and find a psychiatrist/psychotherapist that will help you use CBT, if you haven't already, to overcome your worries. An idea if you're up for it is to make a list of small things you could do to slowly dispel your feelings of inadequacy. For example,
1. ask fellow classmates if they ever feel inadequate or have difficulty talking with superiors. Do you have a big sib?
2. befriend a resident. maybe you'll see that you won't be so uncomfortable
3. take a year off, get a 40 hr/week job, maybe you'll see that you can handle it
4. shadow a 3rd year student. I remember we had a '3rd year for a day' day.

Back to your question at hand. NO WAY IS IT TIME FOR YOU TO LEAVE! Your fears & doubts are very common. You're not alone. If you haven't talked to fellow students in your class about it, I bet you'd be suprised at how many may feel the same way. Some students know they don't like to work with patients & may have a suitable field picked out already. (Although it might be hard for them to admit that unless you're close buddies.)

But your question is best answered by you. If you don't believe in yourself, all of us cheering you on won't get you through the ups & downs of medicine. And if you leave, how do you know you won't have feelings of inadequacy again? Only you know your true 'long standing doubts' & how to answer them.

If you can go from '2 be or not to be' to 'I want to be' it'll make 3rd & 4th year easier already.

Thanks Cindy4443, the 'brightside' & killers was a reminder to mention that getting addicted to things that you like helps displace negative addictions. Any hobbies? What do you enjoy about med school? any fave classes, profs, or classmates. Is there anything you look forward to in 3rd & 4th year? Usually, during 3rd year, strong friendships form b/c of the difficulties everyone shares.

It's fairly early in 2nd year. Did you have a specific clinical experience that triggered or pushed you to the edge? Remember, things get better with practice. It takes years to become a physician. Lots of people stink at their first try at something, but if you work hard, you get better. A family resident attending told me how there was a student who was nervous and meek in the beginning of 3rd year, but by the end of the year she was much more confident and knew what she was doing.


Whoa! Apologies for the length.

 

[gary5]

Emotional stresses? You could be a general physician - that's not emotionally stressful. You could work 30 hours a week and make more than you'll ever make in ANY other career. I'd think hard before you drop this career - you have no idea how lucky you are. You could get your M.D. and do pharm research with no emotional anything. There are lots of options - speak to a career person at your med school.

 

[drhobie7]

I vote for picking a specialty with little patient interaction. Radiology, perhaps? Sounds like a sweet life to me. Pathology is another option. I think the MPH and pharmaceutical routes make sense too. But I'd stick it out.

 

[Flopotomist]

There was a day not too long ago when you REALLY wanted to be a doctor. Do you remember why? Try to reconnect yourself with whatever it is that motivated you to enter the profession in the first place. Perhaps volunteer in a clinic somewhere in your limited free time. Also, seriously consider talking to a mental health professional to help you deal with any underlying depression.

If you stick it out, there must be some niche somewhere for you - just keep looking for it, and good luck!

 

[tupac_don]

that's tough but may not be impossible. med school probably can't make your depression any better and may even be worse *at times*. You'll know when those times come up and make sure that you have someone to talk to esp. another med student because we All go through it All and sometimes knowing that you are NOT alone in your feelings, thoughts and experiences may just be enough to help you feel better and wake up and do it again tomorrow.


I don't know anyone who does not get nervous around "superiors" including pt's 😉. Think of attendings as teachers who are ultimately on YOUR side and there to teach YOU. You are paying for this experience afterall and often times they are paid, albeit a small amount, to have you there. Not only that you are a tremendous resource in terms of getting stuff done. Not to mention that even though it's like scaling a mountain in terms of that anxiety you WILL reach a plateau, and things will get easier and your confidence will grow.

Mine has, I retorted to an attending in surgery today after they made a snide comment towards me.... what did they say/do??? NOTHING.


We ALL feel inadequate at your point, and those few rare people who feel as though they are not are conceited and arrogant and it will show on the wards. Yes you need confidence and you WILL get it but that fake kind don't getcha as far as a little humility does.


yeah man I hear that. But that will be true for ANYBODY that you meet. That annoying law student who thinks he's got it all figured out or the simpering overly dramatic "theater" student, well you get my drift I hope that patients are PEOPLE, some you will like and some you'd rather never see again but you try for a little patience and compassion and if that doesn't get you through, you just act professionally and do your job. Remember the Narcississtic PD in psych and how the "physician gets bored of listening to them"? well there you go, you can't expect to like or have sympathy for everyone but you can do your job.


that's normal. after two years of medical school, you want a long break, not boards and a 60 hour work week - but you get through it. I tell you leaving after a call night at 9am when your peers are getting in can be the best feeling in the world.


We are in a profession that unfortunatley breeds inadequate feelings in thier young. I guess it's a growing thing, or a hazing thing (some might say) but you do get hard teachers and mean teachers and softies, who don't push you to get better but are nice and the really good teachers who are kind but push you and help you to better.

You seem a fairly run of the mill med student to me. Not only have I shared your thoughts but have listened to others who also have them and work through them. As they say there is a place in medicine for all types and if you found that you truly do not enjot pt contact there are always certain specialties that minimize that. As for depression, it sounds very rough and I cannot speak to that except that make sure you have support and when you need a day off don't even feel bad to take it!
hope that helps - shorrin M4

How about the teachers, who are good, but are pricks and push you real hard to do your best. That kind you left out. Sometimes they can be the best of all.

 

[disque71]

High School Teacher. A district near me has a new starting salary at about $54K(Pittsburgh Suburb) per year. for 9 months work and killer benefits this is a great opportunity.

 

[beastmaster]

Had a physiology lab instructor in undergrad who dropped out of med school during 3rd year due to health reasons. He did this part time, and was very insightful because of the medical and clinical insights he could bring to discussion, awlays throwing in little clinical pearls of wisdom that if nothing else made the classes more interesting.

Not sure how he got the part time position, maybe we had a shortage of instructors (I'm sure we did), but since he only had a BS his full time job was high school biology teacher.

If you polled any group of reasonable persons your answer would be to graduate and become much more marketable in the real world. If you cry yourself out of school because its too emotional, wait until its time to pay bills and put food on the table with a BS bio degree.

 

[futurecooterdoc]

Don't quit man... I am telling as a 2nd year resident, that it is just not worth quitting. Just grind through this ****, and obtain a "I don't give a ****" attitude. I used to be an alpha - med stduent, and I was miserable. Then I decided to not give a ****, and it made my life a lot better. I am sure your school has a tehrapist. Get an appointment and grind through this ****. Before you know it it will be all over 🙂

- futurecooterdoc