Contacting admissions after rejection

Veterinary Science Graduate Certificate from UofI
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Sognidoro

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I have a phone date to go over why I was declined admission at my IS school (Minnesota). Has anyone been through this before and have any tips on how to get the most out of it? Do they pretty much go through your application section by section or do you have to ask them specific questions about it?
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I can only speak for my own IS school, Colorado State, and for that they call it an exit interview. I had heard horror stories about people leaving the session in tears, but I actually found it enlightening and encouraging. In a nutshell the lady went over my application and records, and told me where I needed to improve, and what was just fine to reuse for the next round of applications. So I felt it helped a lot, and actually made me feel better about myself. Go in with an open mind, a few questions of your own, and absorb what they have to say. The session gave me an insight into what the comittees look at, and what they want. It allowed me to tailor my next year of academics and experience to what they wanted. I got acceptances to 3 schools this year, so something must have been worthwhile in what I learned.

Kai
 
Caninerepro said:
I can only speak for my own IS school, Colorado State, and for that they call it an exit interview...[snip]..... It allowed me to tailor my next year of academics and experience to what they wanted. I got acceptances to 3 schools this year, so something must have been worthwhile in what I learned.
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Yes, but CSU blew you off again, so doesn't that kinda make you want to ask :wtf:
 
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I have only done a file review with Ohio State University (not my in state, but my dream school)...this year was my second year doing a file review with them. Overall, I definitely feel it is worth while and helpful...not to mention it does make you feel better about yourself. Personally for me, I thought I was definitely going to get in this year bc I had taken the advice from last year and improved upon all points...so I was really interested to hear what they had to say this year as to why I didnt get in. It was heartbreaking to hear that I only missed getting accepted by 3 points....and that I didn't make it to the alternate list bc there were about a 150 other students that came within that same margin of an acceptance. She went through each section, telling me that I really could have only improved by 1/2 to 1 point, and that my interview couldn't have been better. She said OSU had a much more competitve applicant pool compared to past years....all in all, I recommend doing it... take the advice given to you, and don't hesitate to ask them questions...
 
I met with Larry at Minnesota last spring when I was waitlisted. He's such a nice guy to begin with, and is very helpful. I found the meeting to be quite interesting. Especially to find out I didn't score as high on my interview as others who were accepted. This was news to me because I thought my interview went very well. Meeting or talking with him can only help!!
 
LivestockDOC where did you get that smiley? It is hilarious!
 
What kinds of questions would be good to ask during a file review? I've never done one so I'm not sure what questions would be most helpful...
 
Even if you opted out of reading the evaluation, you are allowed to ask if there were recommendation letters that were subpar. You can definitely ask what area they'd like you to work on for the next cycle. If you have something that you would like to do during the next 6 months, let them know and see if it will improve your application. Ask how the interview went. If you didn't do so great, ask if they have suggestions for improvements or do your own research on how you can improve.

I'm sure there are other things that you can ask. Hope this helps.
:luck:
 
BarksOT said:
I met with Larry at Minnesota last spring when I was waitlisted. He's such a nice guy to begin with, and is very helpful. I found the meeting to be quite interesting. Especially to find out I didn't score as high on my interview as others who were accepted. This was news to me because I thought my interview went very well. Meeting or talking with him can only help!!
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I second this- Larry is great, very helpful and is genuinely concerned with helping students! When I met with him for my first two rejections he basically told me what the committee thought my weak areas were in comparison to other applicants. Just ask about your weak points so you can address those things for next year! :)
 
LivestockDoc said:
Yes, but CSU blew you off again, so doesn't that kinda make you want to ask :wtf:
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Yes I know you know my story better than most others, and exactly what hoops I jumped through to improve my application. We have discussed this in private conversations off list.

That said, and for the others reading this post, understand that first of all CSU is a different story than most other Vet Schools, this is like trying to be accepted at Harvard or Johns Hopkins for medical school as compared to most other schools. Also understand, I was this last application cycle rejected by only three of the nine schools I applied to, and was accepted at the #1 ranked vet school for my chosen field of interest, as well as #2. I have only a 3.4 undergrad GPA! We can all dream of being the next Dr. Gregory House but here in the real world we sometimes must settle for that which is actually offered to us. I am not sorry for the choices that were offered to me this application cycle, and in my particular case, have decided that the additional cost of out of state tuition outweigh the opportunity cost lost by waiting yet another year for Colorado State to come to their inevitable senses. :D

I have never pretended to be mainstream in my practice desires. I work hard for my "supposed advantages", yet also am smart enough to realize that any lost wages incurred by waiting for that instate tuition classification far outweigh the initial cost of investment I gain by paying OOS tuition. Not all are so lucky to have that advantage, and for those I hold no ill will. In the end we must all pay the devil for our opportunities gained.

Kai
 
Caninerepro -

Just curious...but what is your area of interest (perhaps canine reproduction? ;)) and where did you find rankings of schools by area of interest?
 
Pomona2006 said:
Caninerepro -

Just curious...but what is your area of interest (perhaps canine reproduction? ;)) and where did you find rankings of schools by area of interest?
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In a nutshell I asked your former dean who is also the first author of the book that is the bible of my chosen field --I assume you come from Western -- and was told to look elsewhere and where exactly to look. I was told that Western/Banfield was not in my best interests. No offense intended.
 
Caninerepro said:
In a nutshell I asked your former dean who is also the first author of the book that is the bible of my chosen field --I assume you come from Western -- and was told to look elsewhere and where exactly to look. I was told that Western/Banfield was not in my best interests. No offense intended.
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Sorry...I'm not from Western...not even in vet school yet. I was just wondering if there were any published rankings of schools by area of interest.
 
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Pomona2006 said:
Sorry...I'm not from Western...not even in vet school yet. I was just wondering if there were any published rankings of schools by area of interest.
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My appologies:oops:,

My best advise if you are really concerned about these trivial things is to ask around. As far as all-around schools, over time, the traditional ranking is prettymuch solid at Cornell, Colorado State, Penn, Florida, Davis, TAMU ... in that order more or less. However there may be minor variances from year to year. Remember, this is a political ranking, and once you start looking at specialties #28 overall may well be #1 at a particular niche. Also keep in mind that at all the schools except Penn you end up with exactly the same initials behind your name in the end -- DVM. Penn calls it a VMD, but it means the same thing:). JQ Public has no clue as to the difference even if you went to Podunk State College, they will still call you Dr.
 
Caninerepro said:
My appologies:oops:,

My best advise if you are really concerned about these trivial things is to ask around. As far as all-around schools, over time, the traditional ranking is prettymuch solid at Cornell, Colorado State, Penn, Florida, Davis, TAMU ... in that order more or less. However there may be minor variances from year to year. Remember, this is a political ranking, and once you start looking at specialties #28 overall may well be #1 at a particular niche. Also keep in mind that at all the schools except Penn you end up with exactly the same initials behind your name in the end -- DVM. Penn calls it a VMD, but it means the same thing:). JQ Public has no clue as to the difference even if you went to Podunk State College, they will still call you Dr.
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HERE HERE!! :thumbup:

I agree with this statement completely. Just because a college is high in ranking is not correlated with strengths if you are interested in a particular field. Most incoming vet students have an idea of what they want to do, clinical work whether it be large or small animal, but if you know there is a definite path you want to go down (I.E. your path) then the US World and News Rankings mean squat in the long run.
 
Caninerepro said:
My appologies:oops:,
As far as all-around schools, over time, the traditional ranking is prettymuch solid at Cornell, Colorado State, Penn, Florida, Davis, TAMU ... in that order more or less. However there may be minor variances from year to year.
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Wow, that's different than any list I've seen, but whatever.

I have been wondering this as well. I've been a bit wary of simply asking around because of course the school where you teach is the best! Exaggeration yes, but I don't know how many of the answers I have gotten were honest.
 
I agree as well. That's why I think it would be more useful (for us applicants) to have the schools ranked by area of interest rather than overall. As caninerepro mentioned, it seems like the best thing you can do at the moment is ask around and people in the field generally can tell you where you should try applying based upon your interests. But that is the same situation for undergrad. The top schools aren't necessarily the best ones to prepare you for a certain field.

Of course, getting into your #1 choice based upon our area of interest isn't always possible. Caninerepro - - you must be ecstatic! Especially since your #1 was OOS for you. Congrats!
 
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OK so to prove a point, by that ranking I got into #'s 2, one of the 5's, and 10. But #10 is #1 in SA therio so that is where I will be, even though it will cost me about $20,000.00/year more than #2. Look, unless you just want to intimidate the other vets in the clinic (I have gotten comments from vets in clinics I volunteered at b/c I have a CSU sticker on the back of my Jeep, and I'm just a grad student here!) do not worry about a theoretical ranking but rather go for best fit, and quite honestly the $. My 2 cents worth.
 
Caninerepro said:
That said, and for the others reading this post, understand that first of all CSU is a different story than most other Vet Schools, this is like trying to be accepted at Harvard or Johns Hopkins for medical school as compared to most other schools.
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I don't think this is the case at all and it comes across as pretentious when I don't really think you were meaning it that way. CSU is pretty much like most other schools as far as IS admissions goes, and seems to be a little harder than some for OOS numbers-wise if only because of the sheer amount of applicants. For what it's worth, they accepted 30% of their IS applicants as opposed to UCD's 21% last year, and with WICHE added in both had about the same percentage of OOS accepted. That's the kind of crap that US News & World Report bases their rankings on, I think.

So I agree with your later points about rankings not really mattering. I actually don't even see how it matters that much for your chosen area unless you are planning on doing research/getting a PhD. Sure you want to make sure that there are at least a good number of courses/electives/rotations in the area you may want to specialize in, but shouldn't your residency/internships matter more if you plan on becoming boarded?

Caninerepro said:
OK so to prove a point, by that ranking I got into #'s 2, one of the 5's, and 10. But #10 is #1 in SA therio so that is where I will be, even though it will cost me about $20,000.00/year more than #2.
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I thought you said you didn't get into CSU (#2)?
 
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Pomona2006 said:
FWIW...here is a link to the US News & World Reports rankings...(not sure how recent)
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/vet/search

But if you want the vet perspective on rankings (which is pretty much what we've been saying), this article is worthwhile. See: What does a High Ranking Mean.

Sorry for hijacking!
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That's the most recent ranking as far as I know.

I don't think it's particularly important; I would definitely prefer ranking of specialties and not overall. Ranking value (quality by price), like they do with undergrad, would be nice too....now how you do that is another story.

And yes, SORRY TO HIJACK!!
 
Caninerepro said:
In a nutshell I asked your former dean who is also the first author of the book that is the bible of my chosen field --I assume you come from Western -- and was told to look elsewhere and where exactly to look. I was told that Western/Banfield was not in my best interests. No offense intended.
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Be very careful with these types of posts.....:oops:

Unless you are saying that Shirley actually said "Western/Banfield is not in your best interest"....

Then just say so and don't beat around the bush about it.:thumbup:

However I am extremely disappointed in her if she said anything Western/Banfield as yes there may be an association, but they are not the same entities....
 
is it acceptable to have a post-mortem with a school even though i've been accepted somewhere else? i'd like to talk to at least one of the schools that rejected me so i don't have to keep wondering what went wrong the rest of my life (plus, certain members of my family are in denial and inadvertently make it worse by telling me to "appeal"). but, i would understand if they only want to hear from people who need the info to improve their app for the next cycle.
 
DollyyLlama -

If I was in your situation (and with your experience/stats), I would contact them to find out what prevented you from being interviewed/accepted. But that is only if you care what they think or if you want some sort of "closure" / understanding. Of course, remember that some people find that during their post-mortems, the schools have no really good feedback for them.

And...they definitely don't need to know you're going elsewhere! ;)
 
Well I had my postmortem interview on Friday...all I can say is that it made me even more confused! The admissions director told me that I was a very strong applicant, and I asked him about each area (GRE, gpa, references, experience, extracurriculars)--all average or above average according to him. I asked him what I could do to improve for next year and he said "more experience always helps, but no one thought you were lacking in that area".

What hurt me the most was my interview! Here I thought it had gone so well--I had prepared for it and had a ton of examples for the behavioral questions to draw upon. He said that my personal statement was well written and that somehow I didn't come across the same way during my interview. The interviewers also rated me below average in overall communication skills! The admissions director said he didn't have a list of the specific questions they asked or comments for my answers. The only thing he told me was that the interviewers thought I was a little wishywashy on my goals for the profession during the interview. (I said I wanted to work in small animal for awhile, but ultimately get into teaching since I have a background in that, which goes hand-in-hand with research [which I've done also] at a university). I guess I should have been more specific.

I did tell him that I thought it went well, but one of the interviewers seemed disinterested in me which may have affected my performance (the only thing I could think of to explain their poor impression of me). And he said he knew who I was talking about, and that is just his personality and that "he's not a warm fuzzy guy". I honestly think that I got unlucky with who my interviewers were and it ultimately led to me getting rejected.

He told me that the interview is 50% of the final decision! That would have been nice to know beforehand. The other 50% is experience, personal statement, references, (i.e. everything other than grades). He said they are discussing whether grades will be factored into the final decision for next year's admissions. I just don't see how a one hour interview (that wasn't even bad from my perspective) can take precedence over everything else you have done in your life! If they are looking for people with great communication skills, don't they listen to what your references say, or what areas you've worked in before (I work in a clinic talking to clients all day, and I have intern-taught high school and I have never been accused of lacking in that area). I am very hesitant to go through this process again if it all rests on such a subjective process. Sorry for the rant...just a bit frustrated with the whole process if you can't tell.

I got into RVC as well, but just bummed I didn't get into MN because its my IS--and much, much cheaper!

I'd be very interested to hear how others' postmortems went!

By the way--the "disinterested" interviewer answered a cellphone call during my interview...maybe I should have mentioned that to the admissions guy!
 
Wow. Don't know if I'll be contacting them now. I definitely don't think so highly of them anymore.
 
Has anyone else had their postmortem or is it still pretty early?
 
Sognidoro said:
Has anyone else had their postmortem or is it still pretty early?
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Mine is in 2 weeks for my IS school... I'm nervous but anxious to hear what she has to say. I'll let you know how it goes. I just really hope that she can give me some hope that it is worth applying again this year. I have been actively working on improving my application since last summer, so hopefully I have been on the right track.
 
I plan on having one with at least Purdue, even though I am in my current IS. I was asked a few months ago to write a statement concerning 'brain drain' in Indiana (where my parents live and I grew up) explaining why I chose not to attend school there for undergrad and why I have NOT returned to the state for employment. I intend to include rejection from Purdue as part of that, along with the fact that it was cheaper for me, due to academic scholarships, to attend every school I applied to other than IU and PU, where I was told I was out of luck since I didn't play sports.
 
TSUJC said:
LivestockDOC where did you get that smiley? It is hilarious!
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So sorry for the delay in responding (and perhaps you have discovered the answer on your own by now). This was one of those threads that I knew I had posted in, but couldn't remember the thread's title when I got back on the computer later. Duh!

When you post, you have a selection of icons to the right of the text area. If you click on "More," and widen out the window that subsequently opens, you will discover a myriad of additional icons. Enjoy! :hardy:
 
gone2dogs said:
Mine is in 2 weeks for my IS school... I'm nervous but anxious to hear what she has to say. I'll let you know how it goes. I just really hope that she can give me some hope that it is worth applying again this year. I have been actively working on improving my application since last summer, so hopefully I have been on the right track.
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Sidenote: Thunder snow??? That would be why I am inside with my crazy puppy instead of out walking right now. I think I've only experienced snow with thunder once before...

Well, as promised (since I know you were all waiting around for this:sleep:), I had my file review today. It was actually a much better experience than I was expecting! What I thought was my major weakness in fact is... lack of experience with a vet. What surprised me was that they were much more concerned about my lack of upper level bio classes than I thought they would be. I thought having tons of upper level chemistry and physics classes (including an MS in Chem) would show I could handle a rigorous science course load, but apparently they were left wondering if I knew any biology! Good to know. I was also surprised how down she was on the lower division community college bio classes I've taken (none are prereqs for this school, I was just taking them to get more bio and because I was interested). She basically said, in not so many words, don't take another class at the community college ever again... start squeezing in as many upper division bio classes online as I can! A cool thing is that she was also a nontraditional vet student herself, so she really understood the challenge of wanting to keep my current job while trying to take classes and gain experience.

I got answers to lots of other specific questions, but overall the good news is that I left feeling very optimistic and motivated. She didn't say that I would get in next year, but implied that if I keep on the track I am getting more experience and take a good handful of upper level bio classes that I would be a good candidate and should be able to get in within the next few years. I was afraid she would say I should think of a new life plan, but happily I have reason to believe that I can make this life plan work.

So round 2, here I come! The question is which schools will be involved in round 2 now... I really want to go to my instate school so what I can't decide is if I will only apply there again and then apply to more schools if it comes to round 3, or if I try more places this round. There are some pretty compelling financial reasons to either go instate or to wait another year before going out of state (relating to loan forgiveness for some current student loans because of my current teaching job). What concerns me is the number of people I have heard getting rejected in state to this school (CSU) who have gotten accepted out of state. Oh, the questions in life!
 
If you get waitlisted, can you ask for an exit interview/file review over the phone?
thank you in advance!
 
StayingHopeful said:
If you get waitlisted, can you ask for an exit interview/file review over the phone?
thank you in advance!
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I'm not sure if you are asking in general or specifically about CSU, but based on a survey I filled out as part of the file review I believe the answer is yes at CSU anyway.
 
Oops, sorry - I was asking about CSU and WSU. Thank you!
 
Just out of curiosity, does anyone ever get told at a review that they should look for another career path? Before someone thinks I am talking about anyone in particular or thier application, I am definitly not. I was just kind of thinking about it in terms of marketing....is there any reason to discourage an applicant from reapplying?
 
I think a lot of people are told that they should also plan for a backup career while trying to improve their application, at the very least.
 
Sunstorm, I've heard horror stories of people getting told that they would never get in. The person doing file reviews at UCD, for example, has a reputation for being blunt and honest which I can totally appreciate. I think I would want someone to tell me I didn't have a chance if they were thinking it. Then I would change things and work harder to prove them wrong.

I think its in the applicant's best interest, as well as the school's, to be honest and tell them like it is. If there is something that makes the applicant not competitive its only fair to be honest even if it means hurting someone's feelings.

The person at Davis looked me straight in the eye and said it didn't matter how glowing my LORs were or how many hours I worked during school. It didn't matter what area of VM I was interested or what experiences I had, etc. She told me flat out that I would NEVER get in to Davis with my current GRE scores and GPA.

It was actually the most helpful criticism anyone had ever given me. I fixed my naughty GRE scores and ta-da! I got in.
 
shelterURIgirl said:
The person at Davis looked me straight in the eye and said it didn't matter how glowing my LORs were or how many hours I worked during school. It didn't matter what area of VM I was interested or what experiences I had, etc. She told me flat out that I would NEVER get in to Davis with my current GRE scores and GPA.
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Oh I am so glad that she didn't tell me that last year. I don't know that I would've been able to restrain myself from going over her desk at her if she had. :laugh:

Quite on the contrary, she said that with my interest in academia/research and my GRE scores (NOT a weakness of my app), if I demonstrated that I could actually handle doing graduate level research and it wasn't just a passing phase (like most things in my life had been ;) ) and could at least do something for my last 45 hours GPA, it would very likely help my chances.
 
Sognidoro said:
...one of the interviewers seemed disinterested in me which may have affected my performance... I honestly think that I got unlucky with who my interviewers were and it ultimately led to me getting rejected...
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It's SO true...in my experience anyways. At my interview at OSU I was the last one of the day, and I knew they were all tired and waiting to get out of there. I had the impression that they had already made their picks for the day & I was set up to fail. They twisted my words around and adopted an adversarial position (!?!) I really felt it was unfair.

Its really why you apply to so many schools. Because sometimes its just sooo random!
 
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