Convictions

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shali2005

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Upon reading over Ohio's rules for license it states that even exspungment of your records doesn't matter that you have to still report the felony as a felony even if it was a diversion program you went through. Michigan as well as several other board sites state the same thing. So exspungment won't work. Has anyone had convictions and received their medical license? My felony was dismissed upon completion of a diversion program. And i have 2 misdemeanors associated with this same case as well. Anybody who has this problem and has either gone though or is going through getting a license I would love to here whats the process and how tough is it to get a license.
 
shali2005 said:
Upon reading over Ohio's rules for license it states that even exspungment of your records doesn't matter that you have to still report the felony as a felony even if it was a diversion program you went through. Michigan as well as several other board sites state the same thing. So exspungment won't work. Has anyone had convictions and received their medical license? My felony was dismissed upon completion of a diversion program. And i have 2 misdemeanors associated with this same case as well. Anybody who has this problem and has either gone though or is going through getting a license I would love to here whats the process and how tough is it to get a license.

I doubt that most states will issue you a license with a felony and 2 misdemeanors in your past. No offense, but I would not want my state to license any physician that has ever been convicted of any ferlony.
 
medic170 said:
I doubt that most states will issue you a license with a felony and 2 misdemeanors in your past. No offense, but I would not want my state to license any physician that has ever been convicted of any ferlony.

LAME... You have no idea what type of situation he was involved with. He might have bought a bag of weed 5 years ago in Utah - a felony at the time. Or he could have committed minor credit-card fraud, or had sex with a 17 yr old girlfriend when he was 18. Having a felony on your record does not mean that one is a "bad" person or will live a life of crime. He may be one of the best future doctors on this board.
 
SanDiegoSOD said:
LAME... You have no idea what type of situation he was involved with. He might have bought a bag of weed 5 years ago in Utah - a felony at the time. Or he could have committed minor credit-card fraud, or had sex with a 17 yr old girlfriend when he was 18. Having a felony on your record does not mean that one is a "bad" person or will live a life of crime. He may be one of the best future doctors on this board.

Actually, call me crazy, but I think all of the crimes you listed are indeed perfectly valid reasons why I would not want a convicted felon practicing medicine. You would trust someone with a history of illegal drug traffiking(has to be a large amount of weed with intent to distribute to be a felony, and physicians have access to so many narcs etc), money fraud/embezzlement/identity theft(and they are going to have your info for billing), or statutory rape(yes, rape is bad, and in most states the age of consent is lower than 17) with your health and life?
 
I agree with SanDiegoSOD, LAME.
 
IndyZX said:
I agree with SanDiegoSOD, LAME.

Whatever. You folks could disagree without name calling, but oh well, I guess I am lame for wanting to be safe and not pittying the consequences of committing felonies. I mean, I am far from perfect, but I have managed to live on this earth for 28 years without ever having been even arrested.

Anyway, to the OP, I have heard it is difficult, but yoiu should just contact the states you are concerned about and talk directly with them. Good Luck, and like I said, I mean no offense to you from expressing my opinions. They are just that, opinions, whether they are right or lame is for each person to decide.
 
medic170 said:
Actually, call me crazy, but I think all of the crimes you listed are indeed perfectly valid reasons why I would not want a convicted felon practicing medicine. You would trust someone with a history of illegal drug traffiking(has to be a large amount of weed with intent to distribute to be a felony, and physicians have access to so many narcs etc), money fraud/embezzlement/identity theft(and they are going to have your info for billing), or statutory rape(yes, rape is bad, and in most states the age of consent is lower than 17) with your health and life?


Get off your high f*ing horse. Illegal drug traffiking? If someone where to buy an ounce of weed (for personal use) in a number of states in the 1990s, they would be charged with a felony. Not a lot of traffiking going on there. I think most everyone here can see that having consensual sex with someone one year younger than you should not be punished, as the 18 yr cutoff is arbitrary.
This isnt something that I will argue about anymore. The point of my original post was to show that being a "convicted felon" does not mean that someone cannot make a good, honest M.D.
And I didnt say that you are lame, but your point of view certainly is. You are obviously a much better person than anyone who has been convicted of a crime. 🙄
I apologize for the threadjacking; lets try to get back on topic.
 
SanDiegoSOD said:
You are obviously a much better person than anyone who has been convicted of a crime. 🙄
I apologize for the threadjacking; lets try to get back on topic.


Yup, at least anyone convicted of a felony.
Committing a felony=poor judgement=poor physician.
 
Sometimes, yes..other times it is just a result of a mistake made at a young age, of which the person is remorseful and learned a valuable lesson. Some of the best people ar ethose who have committed terrible mistakes and totlaly turned their lives around, and they have the capacity of becoming terrific physicians.
 
Psycho Doctor said:
Sometimes, yes..other times it is just a result of a mistake made at a young age, of which the person is remorseful and learned a valuable lesson. Some of the best people ar ethose who have committed terrible mistakes and totlaly turned their lives around, and they have the capacity of becoming terrific physicians.

👍 sometimes BETTER docs because of their life experiences
 
I first learned that a felony could keep you from getting licensed when I was in high school. That pretty much scared me straight...

Since I knew from the beginning that medicine was for me, I've been pretty careful not to do anything stupid...and get caught 😀

If the felony was as trivial as the examples posted, I'm sure adcoms will understand. Having it expunged will probably help...
 
medic170 said:
Yup, at least anyone convicted of a felony.
Committing a felony=poor judgement=poor physician.

Whoa wait a minute! If everyone who was guilty of poor judgement at some point in their life wasn't able to be a good physician...well, we wouldn't have any good one's...myself, and I can almost guarantee yourself included.

You've gotta be careful all the way up there on your high horse...its quite a ways down.
 
We can't forget that a lot (if not most) of these people are those "people" you see either in class or the library 19/24 hours that don't really get out in the real world. Guys wake up! People make mistakes... yes, they go out, they have girlfriends and they even drink alcohol and make poor judgement too!!!

I applaude those who understand the OP and are openminded as us future physicians should be. My friend was arrested and convicted of a major felony (possession and distribution of over $500,000 worth of cocaine). He is now a PHYSICIAN AND PRACTICING AND VERY RESPECTED in the hospital he works at.

People make mistakes. OP, I am not sure about state requirements and all but I guarantee you there is a way and if you really, really need help then I can ask my friend how he did it although I'd rather not bring it up. Best of luck and cheers :luck: :luck:
 
medic170 said:
I doubt that most states will issue you a license with a felony and 2 misdemeanors in your past. No offense, but I would not want my state to license any physician that has ever been convicted of any ferlony.
My huge problem with this is as follows: What if instead of the above offenses, the guy had three or four Fs in his freshman year? Would he then be unfit to practice medicine, even with stellar grades from then on? You might point to this guy and say he has changed, but I can still say something along the lines of...

multiple Fs = irresponsible = poor physician

Along those lines, you said in a previous post that you had a poor junior year of college. What if I say, "Damn, that's just when you need to be ramping up for admission to med school (or whatever), if he couldn't get it done then when he really needed to get it done, then he obviously doesn't have the necessary drive for the profession."

Of course, that's silly. I know it, and more importantly, you know it. People can change, not all crimes are equal, and that is why I said your previous high-horse statement was LAME.
 
medic170 said:
I doubt that most states will issue you a license with a felony and 2 misdemeanors in your past. No offense, but I would not want my state to license any physician that has ever been convicted of any ferlony.


You are an idiot. A bag of pot is a lot more healthy for you than drinking. But because your women's christina temperance union says it is bad...you think that makes someone a bad doc? Get off of your horse dude....I think you need to smoke a bowl 😱
 
Actually it was misuse of credit card <---the felony and the 1st misdemeanors was a misuse of credit card which was really attached to the felony , but for some reason I cant remember why it had to sit on its own. And the second misdemeanor was a bounced check which I paid and took care of, but it was still listed on my record. Almost 20 years ago. I'm now married , have 2 kids and probally have become more strict with my children where moral judgment is concerned then many other parents.
I have never since that year done anything else wrong. I don't drink,don't do drugs,don't do really much anything. Heck I raised myself since I was 14 years old on my own -in my own place and hadn't done anything bad until that year.
I got messed up with the wrong crowd. Simple as that.
You might be surprised to know the thousands of doctors out there I have found (since it is publically posted) that have gotten thier license suspended because of a felony. I however, want to know someone who has gone through the whole process of becoming a doctor with a felony.
 
I don't have anything of real value to add other than that I hope things work out for you. The one idiot on this post that believes that a person should be condemned for the rest of their lives for actions they did years ago, is a jerk, naive and young. Must be nice to live such a sheltered life. Who would I want as my physician, a person that has had some honest, real and hard life experiences or an idiot that has the shelter of his mother's skirt?

To the OP, good luck. I hope you find the answers that you are looking for.
 
LP1CW said:
I don't have anything of real value to add other than that I hope things work out for you. The one idiot on this post that believes that a person should be condemned for the rest of their lives for actions they did years ago, is a jerk, naive and young. Must be nice to live such a sheltered life. Who would I want as my physician, a person that has had some honest, real and hard life experiences or an idiot that has the shelter of his mother's skirt?

To the OP, good luck. I hope you find the answers that you are looking for.
LP1CW and adamj61,

I don't understand why you people are calling me names just because I have a different opinion. just because I disagree that meakes me an idiot, a jerk, young (I am 28 and married), and I have the shelter of my mother's skirt(I work full time to put myself through college, my mother's skirt does not shelter me much. To me, name calling is immature. I appreciate your opinions, and I can even see the point you are making. I still disagree, but I do not think you guys are idiots or jerks because you have a different opinion. However, when you start name calling, then I begin to think you may me immature idiots or jerks. Dissent from the majority is important for diversity and you should not attempt to intimidate dissenters with name calling so they will shut up. Oh, and by the way, a felony conviction does not equal "honest, real, and hard life experience". Give me a break, a felonious crime is not sometyhing to look at positivly, and it DEFINATLY is NOT honest!! Should I go commit a felony so I can get some honest, real, and hard life experience? I don't think so. Adam, I don't really know why you think smoking pot is healthier than drinking, but you cannot excuse one bad act by pointing to another. I agree that someone who smoked some pot in their past is probably not going to be affected, and will be a fine physician, However, i certainly don't think a practicing physician should smoke pot, it is illegal, dangerous, and it DOES affect your brain regardless of what you think. BTW, I am not going to go smoke a bowl, I don't smoke pot. You disagree with my opinion and think I am an idiot, and your advice to correct my ignorance is to go smoke a bowl of weed? If I listened to that advice, I would truly be an idiot. Regardless of what you think about the weed debate, nobody can deny that smoking pot is very detrimental to your lungs, and for that reason if no other it is better for you to not smoke weed than it is to smoke, just the same as with tobacco. If you are a pot smoker, I urge you to quit for the sake of your own future. You will be a healthier person mentally and definatly physically, if you are clean.

IndyZX, velocypedalist

Although getting an F and committing a felony are very different, I can see your point. I guess the best policy for state licensing would probably be to evaluate those with a felony on a case by case basis via a review board.

DocWannaBe85,

Although I concede somewhat in my opinion as I stated above, I have to totally disagree with your statement. I don't think that a felony conviction=life experience valuable to practicing medicine. At best, a felony is a HUGE MISTAKE that, I now concede, may be forvgivable later in life, but it is far from what I would describe as "life experience". Life experience involves working, volunteering, community service, social interactions, wiseness that comes with age, and societal experiences, NOT committing a crime. I don't think anybody would say to an adcom or state licensing board " I have life experience because when I was younger I committed a felony and was convicted of it in a court of law." A felony is a very negative life experience, and part of reform is learning about the mistake and having real positive life experience.

Psycho Doctor,

I see your point too. However, I still think it makes an even better person (in the eyes of society) to never have committed a crime. To put it in terms of grades like IndyZX did, If I have some F's because I partied early in college, but totally turned my grades around with a positive trend and got my gpa up to say...3.4, and you got straight A's all through college and got say....3.9, than although my record will be looked upon favorable by an adcom, you record will be looked upon even more favorable. Basically, I did very good by correcting my mistake, but you did even better by studying instead of irresponsibly partying.

OnMyWayThere,

See, now that is a pretty serious offense, and if I were on a licensing board, I would definatly have reservations about the applicant's moral character, trustworthiness, and future access to drugs as a physician. However, like I said before, you guys have convinced me that these situations should at least be given a fair consideration on a case by case basis, because I understand that there are many circumstances in life that contribute to a person making a mistake, and correcting bad behavior and morals.


Well guys, I have to admit, people seldom get me to budge on my opinions, but I always listen to the opposition with an alalytical, but fair ear, and you guys have convinced me that my blanket statements may not apply in all cases, all people, or all offenses. licensing should be done case by case and the applicant should be carefully scrutinized and screened (kind of like a parole board works), but given a fair chance to plead their case and prove they have reformed (maybe some sort of probationary license that is supervised more by thae state for a certain period of time...sort of like a medical license pariole officer?). OP, contact the licensing departments of the states you think you might practice in and ask them about the process. I am sure they would be helpful. Best of luck, and congrats of reforming your poor judgements from the past. 🙂
 
Fair enough. (And that was what I was going for, you gotta look at it on a case-by-case basis.)

Good luck and warm and fuzzies all around.
 
I agree with the case by case basis. I do think that life experiences can be many different things. Some may be community volunteering and others may be doing what everyone else does. In the end, it is what you learn from those life experiences that make you the person you are. My background was just young stupidity and I will admit that , but I can positively point out it was a mistake and not a way of life that I'm to lead. Before that 1 year of just bad judgement I had been volunteering (not knowing I wanted to be a doctor) for over 5 years even as a teen, Red cross, hospitals and a old folks homes. I just had a year of bad judgement which I sit back now I wonder what the heck I was thinking. My moral fibers were not parted before or after this year. I emancipated myself at 14 , lived on my own and never smoke, drank or even had parties. I emancipated myself because my mother was never home and always out to the bar or bowling alley. I loved her , but she was a horrible mother. She brought home guys that were just nasty and crude. I was a complete boring person who did volunteer work, read books and worked. That is it. Until the bad year. After that bad year and after I failed trying at college while being a mother I went on to leave college and just be a working mom. I worked 9-5 M-F. Took my kids to their baseball games and karate classes and never once thought nor agreed with any negative moral deeds. I think if I am to be a bad person never to have a chance I would have thought about doing something moral wrong in the last decade.
Point is case by case is fair. I don't think violent crimes should get a license like the guy from Indiana who buried his g-friend alive and still got a license.
I do believe I should get a chance. It has been years and I have proven it was a one time incident. What I can't believe is these grown up doctors who are committing multiple felonies over and over and still getting their license. They don't even show they have morality and they get their license back. I only ask for one chance. It would be the only chance I needed. I feel very confident the board won't be seeing me because of a conviction EVER.
If society sees me as having no felonies I feel the board should as well. It was dismissed and I feel shouldn't be held against me accept as an arrest and not a conviction. Of course I still have the 2 misdemeanors.
I appreciate everyones input 🙂 thank you
 
shali2005 said:
My felony was dismissed upon completion of a diversion program.

Wait, so were you convicted of the felony or not?
 
I stand corrected. I apologize for judging you so quickly. I guess I just jumped to this guy's defense, because I've made mistakes. Many of us have and to think that he could be blocked from a profession that he could contribute seemed wrong. In truth: Many of us have done things and not been caught, maybe not felonies, but still things that weren't right.

So, I guess I just want to be open to the idea that people change.
 
By law I was not convicted. In place of the conviction I did a diversion program which when complete was suppose to dismiss the case as a never happened conviction. BUT I have to apparently report even that at the boards
 
The thing I don't get is with the diversion program the judge tells you ok, you completed the program the case is now dismissed and when asked have you ever been convicted of a felony you can legally say no. So Iam confused beacause for instance, a doctor had a misdemeanor from 1977,she wrote a bad check and when the board found out took her license for hiding it. She had the record exspunged and by law means it never happened.That is what she told the boards. They said "Oh well, you hid it from us, exspungment removes it from your record , but not for us".
So the thing is do you have a felony or you don't why is it you have one only when it suits certain people. If a judge says you have no felony conviction I don't see where the boards can say you do. How am I suppose to know when to say I had one , but then I was never convicted which makes it not a felony.
Now perhaps maybe I read the Ohio board rules wrong and you have to state the situation , yet they won't exactly look at it as a felony since legally there isn't, but I get no clear answer from them. They cut and paste the things about ever case is case by case . Thats great , but save me years of medical school if your likely from past experience to deny me a license.
It just is very wishy washy. And another thing is do I have to mention it to the medical school? Legally I have no felony, just the 2 misdemeanors? I hear people being kicked out of school for not reporting a dui or other conviction.
And for goodness sakes don't ask a lawyer. I have to study up on things to tell him and hes a criminal lawyer. He told me we would exspunge it and all would be well. Then again, I am a type A personality and worry about everything.
Sorry, had to vent there 🙂
 
exspungment of a felony and dismissal of a felony are two very different things. With exspungment, you were convicted of the felony and later had it removed from your record. However, because you were actually convicted you would still be required to report it because they ask if you have EVER been convicted of a felony, not "do you have a felony on your record?"

However, if the judge actually DISMISSED your case because you did the diversion program, then you were never legally convicted and therefore do not have to report a felony conviction. So, which is it? Words are very important in the law, and if the judge used the word "dismissed" or "case dismissed" than you were not convicted of a felony.
 
If you were not to report an expungement, could the even legally gain access to your record later?
I know the couldnt if you were a minor at the time.
If they had no legal rights to the records, i certainly wouldnt volunteer any information. YES i know thats unethical.
 
What exactly is the question asked on the AMCAS application in regards to criminal record? I have yet to file an application.

Thanks.
 
Under the Ohio rules it states down at the end that this applies to people applying for a license as well.
But, On Penn Medical School site it states a license won't be issued for anything tat is a felony unless 10 years has gone by. Which it has.Ohio board said time, criminal offense and showing of no more criminal history was taken into account.
However, I still have the misdemeanor that was with this misuse of credit cards and the bounced check misdemeanor which happened all within this time frame. Will those hurt me. They too have been 10 years ago. Same time as the other.
On schools what should I do?
 
You can get licensed if you have felony conviction but it depends on the state and the kind of conviction. What is interesting is that if you are already a physician and commit a crime you are less likely to lose your license than if you have a felony and are trying to get a license. Felony convictions are put on your licensing information which the public can view for up to 10 years before they are removed. You can get what is called a certificate of rehabilitation which then is forwarded to the governor as an application for a pardon. Most public defenders can do this paperwork for you. You must apply for this certificate in the county in which you currently live and must have lived there for no less than 5 years in order to be considered for a certificate of rehabilitation. The district attorney will then do an investigation about what kind of citizen you have been since your conviction. The actual conviction most often will have nothing to this process until the governor reviews your petition for pardon. (this is the process in California)
What I would like to know is if you can get into medical school these days with a felony conviction?
 
HAHA, your college years must have been wild. Maybe I think that anyone that hasn't lived life has no business saving any.

medic170 said:
Yup, at least anyone convicted of a felony.
Committing a felony=poor judgement=poor physician.
 
i mooned a cop once.. :laugh:.. but i got away with a ticket.. :meanie:
 
mdterps83 said:
HAHA, your college years must have been wild. Maybe I think that anyone that hasn't lived life has no business saving any.

Not to start a big fight, but do you really believe you can't "live life" without racking up a felony charge in the process?

There are probably a lot of people that think I'm the most boring person in the world, but I like my life. I get a bigger kick out ice cream from Cold Stone Creamery than I do out of beer (although I like good beer sometimes too). I like reading science fiction paperbacks during my spare time. I love fencing (with swords, not boards meant as a barrier). I've had a lot of fun so far in my life and haven't gotten anything other than a traffic violation (my first car was a 1971 Pontiac Firebird and I had a blast with it) and I've made sure those dropped off my record too.

There's lots of ways to live life and I don't know that many pre-meds with felonies, so maybe I'm a little sheltered, too.
 
Not being disrespectful just pointing out that people tend to keep these things quiet.
 
hey, i am not a lawyer but i play one on tv.

anyway, you might want to check out the state code of your arrest and diversion program. i was purusing through utah state code today and found the following section:

77-2-7. Diversion not a conviction.
Diversion is not a conviction and if the case is dismissed the matter shall be treated as if the charge had never been filed.

if ohio had a similar statute you would be in the clear. no conviction - no felony. you should be able to go online and find the ohio state code somewhere off the main government page.
 
Thank you! I have, since this post wrote to 20+ medical boards,and schools. Schools say they don't see it as a felony at all and not to worry about the misdemeanor. The boards are all pretty much the same. They say it all was in the past and I have shown I am not that person anymore. As they want you to tell them about the felony that would have been , it still really was dimissed. However, yes they could deny you based on the would be conviction. Mostly, this is for the drug offenses which you may then be asked to go through a program to obtain a license. The only state who varied from this response was of course OHIO, where I will be applying for a license. She states there is a provision within the license laws for conduct rehabilitation . She says I would apply to that , but that it would be best to check into getting any of the offenses exspunged for future jobs. I guesse OHIO which she said was one of the only states (which I dont get) had a hiring law for educators and health professionals. This law was for the care of children and the elderly and mandated all of these employees be fingerprinted. An exspungment would just mean less hassle even though the charges were dismissed.
 
Out of curiousity....why have their been so many threads about this as of late?

Are there really that many convicted felons who wanna be docs?
 
Remix said:
sounds like you got served.

you just made my breakfast come out my nose...haha.

"you got served"

priceless.
 
Fermata said:
Out of curiousity....why have their been so many threads about this as of late?

Are there really that many convicted felons who wanna be docs?

I read a statistic some time ago that said something like 10% of the population has some type of felony on their record. You have to remember that some states consider DUI's and other minor indiscretions as felonies.
 
Code Brown said:
I read a statistic some time ago that said something like 10% of the population has some type of felony on their record. You have to remember that some states consider DUI's and other minor indiscretions as felonies.

A DUI is minor?
 
Code Brown said:
I read a statistic some time ago that said something like 10% of the population has some type of felony on their record. You have to remember that some states consider DUI's and other minor indiscretions as felonies.


As a seasoned paramedic, I can assure you that DUI is not minor. It should be a felony, and violators should have their license revoked and get jail time for the first offense!! Scrape a dead 6 year old off the a tree because the car hit a tree and dad was drunk, or extricate a 9 year old from a van that was hit by a drunk driver, and tell her that her mom, dad, and brother are dead, and she is now an orphan. Then, tell me DUI is MINOR 😡

Oh, and BTW, your stat is wrong. 10% have committed some kind of misdemeanor, but less than 4% have committed a felony.
 
President Bush was once convicted of a DWI.
 
medic170 said:
As a seasoned paramedic, I can assure you that DUI is not minor. It should be a felony, and violators should have their license revoked and get jail time for the first offense!! Scrape a dead 6 year old off the a tree because the car hit a tree and dad was drunk, or extricate a 9 year old from a van that was hit by a drunk driver, and tell her that her mom, dad, and brother are dead, and she is now an orphan. Then, tell me DUI is MINOR 😡

Oh, and BTW, your stat is wrong. 10% have committed some kind of misdemeanor, but less than 4% have committed a felony.

well, i bet more have...just haven't been caught yet.

hellz yeah baby. 👍
 
Heliums said:
President Bush was once convicted of a DWI.


And your point is?
 
medic170 said:
As a seasoned paramedic, I can assure you that DUI is not minor. It should be a felony, and violators should have their license revoked and get jail time for the first offense!! Scrape a dead 6 year old off the a tree because the car hit a tree and dad was drunk, or extricate a 9 year old from a van that was hit by a drunk driver, and tell her that her mom, dad, and brother are dead, and she is now an orphan. Then, tell me DUI is MINOR 😡

Oh, and BTW, your stat is wrong. 10% have committed some kind of misdemeanor, but less than 4% have committed a felony.

oh gawd, spare us your preaching. while dui is nothing to sneeze at, we don't need to turn this into some major debate. by your reasoning, simple battery (e.g. a bar fight) should also be a felony, since theoretically the victim could die from blunt trauma.
 
samurai_lincoln said:
oh gawd, spare us your preaching. while dui is nothing to sneeze at, we don't need to turn this into some major debate. by your reasoning, simple battery (e.g. a bar fight) should also be a felony, since theoretically the victim could die from blunt trauma.


Those stories I told are tru. So, until you have seen that, I don't think you appreciate the hainousness of drunk drivers. In a bar fight, the victim has some involvement in the encounter, and if they don't, the battery is a felony(i.e. if some guy just attacks you with no provocstion, like drunk drivers). Victims of drunk drivers are completely innocent victims. You analogy just further proves my point. DUI should be a felony.
 
medic170 said:
Those stories I told are tru. So, until you have seen that, I don't think you appreciate the hainousness of drunk drivers. In a bar fight, the victim has some involvement in the encounter, and if they don't, the battery is a felony(i.e. if some guy just attacks you with no provocstion, like drunk drivers). Victims of drunk drivers are completely innocent victims. You analogy just further proves my point. DUI should be a felony.

Sucker punching someone (sans major bodily harm) is a felony? Yeah, right. Nice attempt at justifying your logic.
 
samurai_lincoln said:
Sucker punching someone (sans major bodily harm) is a felony? Yeah, right. Nice attempt at justifying your logic.

It is if you do it in such a way that it could cause death or serious injury. Whatever, you'll change your mind when its one of your loved ones I am scraping off the windshield.
 
Along the same lines, but a lot less serious...has anyone gotten a violation? It's not even considered a crime, and the university was never involved - the town handled my case. Some schools ask if you've ever been convicted of ANY violation of the law though, so I had to explain. Since I marked no for the institutional action question on my AMCAS, do you think they might suspect me of lying even though I didn't? Also, since some schools only ask about crimes, I did not disclose this information to them - good or bad idea?
 
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