Cooper Medical School - NJ

[Dreamer47]

Hi all,
Out of 19 applications, this is the lucky one that yielded me an acceptance. I don't know much about the school though, to be honest, as far as the quality of the education here/the reputation(I know its new), or even just a general review of what it was like to go to this school.(How were staff/tests/other students/competitiveness) Are there any students who attend the school and can give it a pros/cons to other NJ schools? As far as I know the only big pro is the Cooper Hospital, not sure why though. Also accept what anyone has heard about this institution. Thanks

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[Dreamer47]

Also, was accepted to RowanSOM (Great established DO school) , any advice on which school to choose?

 

[Saifa]

There is a subforum for this School X vs. School Y though the unanimous response is going to be go MD

 

[Deecee2DO]

This depends on a lot of different things.
-What specialty are you considering? If you are considering peds/ob/PM&R/anesthesia/primary care (IM/FM)/gen surg and don't care if it is AOA or ACGME then DO and MD won't matter (unless you're shooting for the top ACGME programs in each of those specialties then MD will make it easier but DO will definitely not keep you out of the running completely either). If you are considering surgical subspecialties (ENT, Ortho, Vascular surgery, Plastics) or Derm/Rads or subspecialty IM (GI/Cards) at ACGME programs, then I would go MD (disclaimer: I don't know what the merger will bring but I presume that it will take a little while for this to change toward even ground for DO and MD in the matching arena so the merger may not have enough of an effect to change what I said about DO vs MD matching above)
-How do you feel about the environment ie faculty/students (the "feel" of each school)?
-What is the student body like (cooperative/collaborative? cuthroat/competitive?) and which do you like better?
-Cost of each school? (both will be lower since in-state if you are in-state)
-How interested are you in research? (RowanSOM has the highest NIH funding for a DO school and I think higher than Cooper but don't quote me on that)?
-Do you like the surrounding area of each?
-How willing are you to embrace OMT and take the osteopathic manipulation courses on top of the medical courses in DO school (if you want to get into competitive specialties this MAY (not always) take away from extra time you could be doing research, volunteering and working on ECs/connections to build your resume for matching your desired specialty)?
-In my personal experience along the interview trail I have noticed that DO students are a little less competitive (in the sense that they are more willing to work together and help each other) than MD (this doesn't mean that being competitive is wrong or less advantageous but I personally like less competitive atmosphere. This is JUST MY OPINION so don't take it as fact.
-Are you considering PBL? RowanSOM has two tracks (PBL and Traditional) which makes their curriculum very unique (PBL meets 3x per week you have no class and everyone discusses cases you learn through a clinical reasoning lens from your first day as a med student which is great fit for students who were already in the healthcare field like nurses PAs etc or engineering majors that have had time to develop their critical thinking skills before medical school) and the traditional track is class everyday with regular examinations.
-If you attend RowanSOM you have to take COMLEX (DO boards) AND Step (MD boards) if you want to match into an MD residency (ACGME), however I don't know what the merger will bring.
-Me personally? I would go to RowanSOM but I am biased toward it since that is where I will be heading this fall and am considering primary care lol. However, I would bet a lot of people would say Cooper because you'll get the MD, which still is probably the single most coveted/well respected credentials to have after your name of any graduate degree and probably will open the most doors for you IMO. Please take everything I said into consideration. I don't know as much about Cooper but have heard great things as well! The students and faculty are what make RowanSOM so awesome (very collaborative atmosphere where students all want to help each other succeed) which is one of the main reasons that I have chosen it. If you feel that is the kind of place that you are looking for then strongly consider RowanSOM while also considering some of the above information. Feel free to PM me with any questions, and especially if you have any questions about RowanSOM.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Go to cooper.

 

[Dreamer47]

Thanks so much for the replies. Especially @Deecee2DO . As far as @DrfluffyMD, why do you say choose Cooper? I always wanted MD, but am so ambivalent because ROWANSOM has a really great reputation, whereas Cooper is new, so I have some doubts about the curriculum/quality, while it MAY be great, I know that Rowansom is great for a fact. But I want the MD, and feel as though having an MD in the future could help for competitive residencies. Again, I have no idea though so I would like to hear from some students of CMSRU about the curriculum if possible

 

[Deecee2DO]

Thanks so much for the replies. Especially @Deecee2DO . As far as @DrfluffyMD, why do you say choose Cooper? I always wanted MD, but am so ambivalent because ROWANSOM has a really great reputation, whereas Cooper is new, so I have some doubts about the curriculum/quality, while it MAY be great, I know that Rowansom is great for a fact. But I want the MD, and feel as though having an MD in the future could help for competitive residencies. Again, I have no idea though so I would like to hear from some students of CMSRU about the curriculum if possible

Are you strongly considering competitive specialties?

 

[shisong]

im speaking as 2nd year at rowan. go to cooper MD is still better than DO in all aspect. no hate on DO tho

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Thanks so much for the replies. Especially @Deecee2DO . As far as @DrfluffyMD, why do you say choose Cooper? I always wanted MD, but am so ambivalent because ROWANSOM has a really great reputation, whereas Cooper is new, so I have some doubts about the curriculum/quality, while it MAY be great, I know that Rowansom is great for a fact. But I want the MD, and feel as though having an MD in the future could help for competitive residencies. Again, I have no idea though so I would like to hear from some students of CMSRU about the curriculum if possible

Go MD

 

[ninjaman22]

Definitely go MD. I am a DO student and would go MD if I had that choice.

 

[BadSanta]

Thanks so much for the replies. Especially @Deecee2DO . As far as @DrfluffyMD, why do you say choose Cooper? I always wanted MD, but am so ambivalent because ROWANSOM has a really great reputation, whereas Cooper is new, so I have some doubts about the curriculum/quality, while it MAY be great, I know that Rowansom is great for a fact. But I want the MD, and feel as though having an MD in the future could help for competitive residencies. Again, I have no idea though so I would like to hear from some students of CMSRU about the curriculum if possible

Current CMSRU student. Borrowing a question from a Cooper GOD: "When does a new shoe become old?".

The school has had two competitive match lists (out of 2). While I know reading match lists can be like reading the stars, you should be comforted that this "new" school (it's not new anymore and is fully accreddited) has placed students into integrated plastics, cardiothoracic, and ortho at places such as UCLA, U Chicago, and Baylor. Lots of our other students have also matched competitive IM programs (UPenn, Indiana, etc.). The list goes on and on.

I may be biased, but I love our curriculum and the feel of our school: from the mission to the people. Every faculty member, from the dean to an assistant professor, knows me by name (and I'm a wallflower).

And to mimic what others have said, you NEVER EVER choose DO over MD. And I am in no way, shape, or form throwing shade at my DO colleagues. It just is what it is.

 

[libertyyne]

Go MD. No reason to prepare for and take multiple board exams, no reason to deal with bias against DO's. Why would you want to handicap yourself this early in the game?

 

[WedgeDawg]

moving to pre-allo

 

[TattedMed]

I think that because you’re even asking the question, you’re strongly considering both schools and you’re more than likely fixated on those letters that come with graduating from an Allopathic institution. I would caution that although being an MD may open more doors than it would being a DO, it’s a double-edged sword. There’s a lot of contextual things to be considered here like @Deecee2DO suuggests when making your decision.

Despite what some others may believe, being an MD does not automatically afford you greater opportunities than it would if you were to go DO. In fact, A fairly good amount of the program directors at the Trauma Hospital I work at are Osteopathic Physicians and we have A LOT of Osteopaths in sought after specialties. You still have to work incredibly hard and do incredibly well on your boards to be placed into those coveted residency programs regardless of which school you choose. Although it may be harder to achieve as a DO than and MD, it’s not impossible. You have to put in the time and effort in both cases. Choosing to attend an Allopathic program does not guarantee you any more than it would if you were to choose an Osteopathic one. If that were the case, those coming from the Caribbean wouldn’t have such a hard time getting back over and into residency programs.

I wouldn’t say that your end goal should sway you in which program to choose, but rather which program you like. It’s really that simple in my opinion, all things considered.

This is just a very simplistic way of putting my thoughts out there, I could go on and on about the topic. A little disclaimer: I have nothing against my future MD colleagues and I don’t mean to offend anyone!

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I think that because you’re even asking the question, you’re strongly considering both schools and you’re more than likely fixated on those letters that come with graduating from an Allopathic institution. I would caution that although being an MD may open more doors than it would being a DO, it’s a double-edged sword. There’s a lot of contextual things to be considered here like @Deecee2DO being an MD does not automatically afford you greater opportunities than it would if you were to go DO!

The exAct opposite is true. Having an MD automatically open more doors with all else being equal.

 

[Saifa]

The exAct opposite is true. Having an MD automatically open more doors with all else being equal.

And many well-intentioned DO students/faculty on these boards will corroborate this.

 

[TattedMed]

The exAct opposite is true. Having an MD automatically open more doors with all else being equal.

And many well-intentioned DO students/faculty on these boards will corroborate this.

I think you need to carefully reread the post in its entirety before referencing something out of context. Considering I never made the argument that if I were to hypothetically graduate the top of my class as a DO, I would be afforded the same opportunities if I were to do the same as an MD. I’d be crazy to ignore the severe handicap associated with a DO. My arguement was only that anything is possible as a DO and not impossible as many tend to believe. In fact, what I meant was that if you’re to graduate from an MD school with average scores you can’t expect to place in highly competitive programs just because you’re an MD. Everything in this field is a numbers game, be it MD or DO graduate you have to have the scores to play. (Among other things)

 

[libertyyne]

I think you need to carefully reread the post. Considering I never made the arguement that if I were to hypothetically graduate the top of my class as a DO, I would be afforded the same opportunities if I were to do the same as an MD. I’d be crazy to ignore the severe handicap associated with a DO. My arguement was only that anything is possible as a DO and not impossible as many tend to believe. In fact, what I meant was that if you’re to graduate from an MD school with average scores you can’t expect to place in highly competitive programs just because you’re an MD. Everything in this field is a numbers game, be it MD or DO graduate you have to have the scores to play. (Among other things)

If you graduate middle of your class in DO and MD will you be afforded the same opportunities?

 

[21Rush12]

If you graduate middle of your class in DO and MD will you be afforded the same opportunities?

I would say that the general consensus is no. I always think of the journey as a foot race. The average US MD grad starts this race at the starting line, the top 10 school grads start 10 yards closer, and the DO graduates start 10 yards behind.

Depending on the race, those 10 yards can be completely irrelevant or they could be the difference between gold medal and not placing at all.

 

[TattedMed]

Not here to argue, just here to give my opinion on the question presented by OP

Goodluck @Dreamer47 in whatever you decide!

 

[Deecee2DO]

The exAct opposite is true. Having an MD automatically open more doors with all else being equal.

What @TattedMed is trying to say is that nothing is impossible and if you work hard as a DO, you have the research, you have the connections, you have the step scores and you graduate in the top of your class you still have the opportunity to get your foot in the door at many solid programs. However, like I mentioned in my last post, even being a superstar DO student if you want to get into top ACGME programs (MGH, Hopkins, Mass Eye/Ear, UCSF etc) in the most competitive specialties (Ortho, ENT, Derm, Plastics, IM subs like GI or Cards) it would be EXTREMELY difficult to unheard of to match into as a DO and thus you should go MD. If you have your heart set on the more competitive specialties like the ones I stated above then as a DO you probably will be limited in what part of the country you will match because it probably wont be a top program. So as a DO you CAN be an ENT, ortho etc but it will most likely be at an osteopathic residency (AOA). Unfortunately, this is the reality of it. Primary care specialties like FM, IM primary care, OB, anesthesia, peds, PM&R as a DO you can match into highly competitive ACGME programs if you work your butt off. Another reason you would choose MD is if you want to go into academic medicine or research. These are big reasons why anyone should choose MD over DO. Other than these two caveats, MD or DO doesn't really matter.

 

[libertyyne]

What @TattedMed is trying to say is that nothing is impossible and if you work hard as a DO, you have the research, you have the connections, you have the step scores and you graduate in the top of your class you still have the opportunity to get your foot in the door at many solid programs. However, like I mentioned in my last post, even being a superstar DO student if you want to get into top ACGME programs (MGH, Hopkins, Mass Eye/Ear, UCSF etc) in the most competitive specialties (Ortho, ENT, Derm, Plastics, IM subs like GI or Cards) it would be EXTREMELY difficult to unheard of to match into as a DO and thus you should go MD. If you have your heart set on the more competitive specialties like the ones I stated above then as a DO you probably will be limited in what part of the country you will match because it probably wont be a top program. So as a DO you CAN be an ENT, ortho etc but it will most likely be at an osteopathic residency (AOA). Unfortunately, this is the reality of it. Primary care specialties like FM, IM primary care, OB, anesthesia, peds, PM&R as a DO you can match into highly competitive ACGME programs if you work your butt off. Another reason you would choose MD is if you want to go into academic medicine or research. These are big reasons why anyone should choose MD over DO. Other than these two caveats, MD or DO doesn't really matter.

so i am still scratching my head as to why anyone would go DO over MD.

 

[Saifa]

so i am still scratching my head as to why anyone would go DO over MD.

Other than extraordinary geographic circumstances I don't really think there's a reason. COMLEX and OMT alone should seal the deal.

 

[Deecee2DO]

so i am still scratching my head as to why anyone would go DO over MD.

If going primary care or less competitive specialties? school fit, environment, feel of the student body/vibe, tuition cost, they want to go into PM&R and like the OMT hands-on aspect that draws parallels with manual medicine/rehab/PM&R. If the DO program feels better for the applicant in the previous aspects then I would go DO over MD yes. From many of the students that I have spoken with and my friends at both MD and DO programs have stated that for the most part they have noticed that DO programs have less competitive student body, which I liked about DO. DO students were more willing to help their fellow classmates out. Now, please don't come after me with this statement this is just MY experience and is not a RULE by any means and I would consider it a completely anecdotal and subjective assertion. I know many helpful and cooperative/collaborative MD students, just what has been brought to my attention and one of the reasons I would choose DO over MD depending on the program.

 

[libertyyne]

If going primary care or less competitive specialties? school fit, environment, feel of the student body/vibe, tuition cost, they want to go into PM&R and like the OMT earlier hands-on aspect that draws parallels with manual medicine/rehab/PM&R. If the DO program feels better for the applicant in the previous aspects then I would go DO over MD yes.

School Fit , and environment- There is no way to accurately determine this without spending large amounts of time at both schools.
Feel- Vibe- Difficult to accurately assess in short amount of time. Plus all of this will change based on the class composition that varies each year.
Tuition- Tuition for the most part is more expensive at DO schools (on average)
PM&R- You can get into a better program and with less stress via the MD.
OMT- You have to learn vodoo like chapman points I am unsure how this is a positive, Furthermore 95% of DO's do not practice OMM in the wild.

 

[Deecee2DO]

School Fit , and environment- There is no way to accurately determine this without spending large amounts of time at both schools.
Feel- Vibe- Difficult to accurately assess in short amount of time.
Tuition- Tuition for the most part is more expensive at DO schools (on average)
PM&R- You can get into a better program and with less stress via the MD.
OMT- You have to learn vodoo like chapman points I am unsure how this is a positive, Furthermore 95% of DO's do not practice OMM in the wild.

School fit and environment and feel/vibe should be HUGE aspects to pay attention to when deciding to spend 6figs on school and spend 4 years of your life at. So spending time at both schools and talking with faculty and students should be a big factor in a decision, especially if going for less competitive specialties. If you are going FM/peds/ob/anesthesia/IM primary care/PM&R, like I said whether you go MD and DO really doesn't matter that much. These are VERY DO friendly specialties. If I was considering these specialties I wouldn't just go MD because its MD, if the MD school had a bunch of students that were cutthroat competitive egocentric gunners, then Id choose DO instead. I can't stand people like that. Again, not saying all MD programs have that environment, but even if it were the otherway around and the DO school had a gunner student body I would go MD instead

 

[DrfluffyMD]

MD > DO > Carribean MD. This is an rigid order for almost all applicants.

Making an argument for going to DO over MD is almost as ridiculous as making an argument for going to Carib over DO.

 

[Deecee2DO]

MD > DO > Carribean MD. This is an rigid order for almost all applicants.

Making an argument for going to DO over MD is almost as ridiculous as making an argument for going to Carib over DO.

MD>DO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Carib MD>Carib DO lmao

 

[Deecee2DO]

MD > DO > Carribean MD. This is an rigid order for almost all applicants.

Making an argument for going to DO over MD is almost as ridiculous as making an argument for going to Carib over DO.

For the most part yes this is true however there may be a select few circumstances that would make sense to go DO over MD mostly in the primary care arena and school feel.

 

[libertyyne]

For the most part yes this is true however there may be a select few circumstances that would make sense to go DO over MD mostly in the primary care arena and school feel.

Even primary care arena there are certain ACGME residencies that discriminate against DO's. There is still no reason to choose DO over MD. School "feel" is a an elusive thing that changes with each class and almost impossible to figure out in a short amount of time that most candidates have.

 

[Saifa]

Not to mention at a couple MD schools I interviewed with "gunner" is anyone who wants to do something besides IM/FM and goes to class more than once a week. It's ok to have goals.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Not to mention at a couple MD schools I interviewed with "gunner" is anyone who wants to do something besides IM/FM and goes to class more than once a week. It's ok to have goals.

Anecdotal

 

[Deecee2DO]

Even primary care arena there are certain ACGME residencies that discriminate against DO's. There is still no reason to choose DO over MD. School "feel" is a an elusive thing that changes with each class and almost impossible to figure out in a short amount of time that most candidates have.

Ok you know everything. You're right I'm wrong. Good luck in school!

 

[libertyyne]

Ok you know everything. You're right I'm wrong. Good luck in school!

i am confident I dont know everything. However I have read the match data, looked at the surveys and everyone in this thread who is in medical school currently or has been to medical school agree's that going MD is the preferable route. This is not about being right or wrong, rather lets not hand out advice to people that may be detrimental to their career aspects.

 

[TattedMed]

i am confident I dont know everything. However I have read the match data, looked at the surveys and everyone in this thread who is in medical school currently or has been to medical school agree's that going MD is the preferable route. This is not about being right or wrong, rather lets not hand out advice to people that may be detrimental to their career aspects.

A bit harsh to insinuate that going DO is detrimental to ones' career..

 

[libertyyne]

A bit harsh to insinuate that going DO is detrimental to ones' career..

what else would you call something that limits or handicaps your options compared to the alternative?

 

[TattedMed]

what else would you call something that limits or handicaps your options compared to the alternative?

I'm not gunna waste any more of my time with you. You're on of those guys that sits way up there on his high-horse and can't be told anything because you've got it all figured out. I wish the best for you and your career, be it medicine, or whatever it is. Hopefully you don't turn out to be that doctor on the unit.

 

[libertyyne]

I'm not gunna waste any more of my time with you. You're on of those guys that sits way up there on his high-horse and can't be told anything because you've got it all figured out. I wish the best for you and your career, be it medicine, or whatever it is. Hopefully you don't turn out to be that doctor on the unit.

lol. Maybe your views will change once you start school or see a few matches.
I have the utmost respect for DO's and my DO colleagues. I am not going to tell this person to go to a DO school over and MD school and lie to them to say that opportunities at the end are equivalent. I am sorry if that is offensive to you.

 

[Magus5454]

so i am still scratching my head as to why anyone would go DO over MD.

Just go peek at the ARCOM thread for this year..

 

[Deecee2DO]

what else would you call something that limits or handicaps your options compared to the alternative?

you honestly just sound like a pompous know it all classic MD student. i'm sure you'll have a great bedside manner

 

[libertyyne]

you honestly just sound like a pompous know it all classic MD student. i'm sure you'll have a great bedside manner

Instead of defending your contentions with logic and evidence you resort to name calling. lol.


You havent even matriculated yet and you are telling people how the match works and what prospects are for DO vs MD matching. Sound familiar to an accusation you just made?

 

[precisiongraphic]

Also, was accepted to RowanSOM (Great established DO school) , any advice on which school to choose?

I seriously don't have a dog in the fight (not an applicant or MD/DO student) but choosing DO in this time of the merger is risky. (This has nothing to do with any feeling that DO is not equivalent to MD on my part.) As a DO student, you will have to take both COMLEX and Step 1, pass OMM classes and deal with reduced AOA spots due to the merger. Those are burdens an MD student doesn't have to deal with. Just read this thread here and see the anguish of these graduating M4s who are dealing with the merger's reduction of dedicated DO spots.

And then read this specific thread with shadowlightfox's (current RowanSOM student) viewpoints

Too busy studying atm. But when I have time I will give a more detailed explanation of my experiences at the school.

I'm only a second year so I can't give a complete picture but I feel like what I know so far is extremely important to bring up.

But the summary is: The school has traditional curriculum and PBL. I'm from traditional, and here is my take: It's a shell of its former UMDNJ-SOM self. The preclinical education so far here is very VERY subpar, and the school does NOT prepare you for boards, COMLEX or USMLE, for the most part, and many of us are very frustrated because of this. In fact, the one of the administrators openly admitted to the class that it doesn't prepare you for USMLE and that you are on your own if you take it, but but somehow believes that it's adequately preparing us for COMLEX. This doesn't mean our school has a low pass rate for COMLEX. In fact, it's actually quite the opposite, but I'll go into more detail as for why that's the case when I write a more in-depth review.

But you see. That's the thing. If you look at the EMT2ER Doc's post about how this school used to be, you can tell that this school used to not be like most DO schools. UMDNJ-SOM used to prepare their students extremely well for both the USMLE and COMLEX to the point where it was touted as better than handful of MD schools. They used to have everything. Now, with the new set of administration and rules, it's a shell of its former self.

IMO the only valid reason to pick a DO acceptance over an MD acceptance is if you have a spouse/kids/parents who absolutely refuse to move so that the applicant is geographically-limited for med school. Maybe after the merger in 2020 things will settle down but you'll be graduating in 2022 when the effects of the merger will still be in play. Why make it harder on yourself?

 

[precisiongraphic]

Just go peek at the ARCOM thread for this year..

Why? Give us the TL;DR version.

 

[Magus5454]

Why? Give us the TL;DR version.

There's just several people saying theyd rather go to ARCOM than UAMS

 

[libertyyne]

There's just several people saying theyd rather go to ARCOM than UAMS

Good Luck to them, I am sure they will make wonderful PCPs.

 

[precisiongraphic]

There's just several people saying theyd rather go to ARCOM than UAMS

But THIS OP in THIS thread isn't applying to ARCOM or UAMS - he's specifically asking about Rowan/DO versus Cooper/MD.

 

[Magus5454]

But THIS OP in THIS thread isn't applying to ARCOM or UAMS - he's specifically asking about Rowan/DO versus Cooper/MD.

I get that. I was specifically referring to what i quoted in my post. Especially since this thread has turned into another DO vs MD

 

[precisiongraphic]

I get that. I was specifically referring to what i quoted in my post. Especially since this thread has turned into another DO vs MD

Yes, and it's not really fair to the OP to endlessly debate DO and MD here in this thread. DO is a perfectly acceptable choice on its own in the absence of MD acceptances but in this case, head to head, MD Cooper beats out DO/Rowan.

 

[libertyyne]

Yes, and it's not really fair to the OP to endlessly debate DO and MD here in this thread. DO is a perfectly acceptable choice on its own in the absence of MD acceptances but in this case, head to head, MD Cooper beats out DO/Rowan.

You are right, this is OP's thread.

OP you have the information, read the threads. You are going to be a doctor one way or the other if you go to either school.

 

[Dreamer47]

Thanks so much for the help everyone. Just got an interview at FSU!!! First steps to get in, but if I did, how would this schools program compare to Cooper? I’m sure the first two years are similar but idk how the clinicals are at fsu