Cornell vs. Penn

Discussion in 'Medical Students - MD' started by abram, Feb 21, 2002.

  1. abram

    abram Member
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    I am waiting to hear from both of these schools (after good interviews) and I would like to know what some of you think about them, comparatively. Thanks.
     
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  3. fourthyr

    fourthyr Member
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    go to Penn.
     
  4. Hisega

    Hisega Junior Member
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    Agreed - Penn.
     
  5. Voxel

    Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

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    Go to Penn. No Ifs, Ands, or Buts.
     
  6. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member
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    Again, I disagree.

    Go where the location feels best for you.

    Go to Cornell.
     
  7. Epi

    Epi Fuzzy Tiger
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    Personally, I think I would go to Penn. I like it a lot better than Cornell. But of course, how do you feel about both schools?
     
  8. matthew0126

    matthew0126 Anaheim Angels
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    in terms of location, i dont think there is any comparison between nyc and philly...

    but that's just location :D
     
  9. sar520

    sar520 Member
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    not EVERYONE likes nyc ! i personally find it really overwhelming. and i like philadelphia (i happen to be from there, so i'm biased, but still). i really think parts of it are very nice, there is enough to do without it being crazy but it's still quite a big city.

    anyway :)

    -s
     
  10. Esco

    Esco Senior Member
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    I'm going to have to agree...I can visit NYC for a couple of days but after that I can't wait to get out...I need some personal space, which new york has none of---but that's me. I'm from Chicago and I loved the big city feel that Philly has combined with the small residential neighborhoods that each have their own character and personality. Penn's the choice for location---and definitely a better school. I don't think you can beat the curriculum!
     
  11. abram

    abram Member
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    Having lived in Philly for 11 years now, NYC--especially the Upper East side-- would be a refreshing place to start a "new" experience. Still, I wanted to know how you guys felt about these two schools on the comparative basis of curriculum and climate. When it comes to international opportunities and research (which I highly value), I think Cornell outshines Penn. While Penn has a very student-friendly 1.5 years of basic science, Cornell too has a very flexible curriculum (mixed PBL and lecture, I have learned) that gives students ample time (classes end at 1pm) to explore extra-curricular interests. And where social "climate"is concern, Cornell appears to have an edge in my view, given the socio-cultural diversity of the student body. Honestly, I am leaning quite strongly towards Cornell, but I wanted to find more insight into how other people saw the comparison between cornell and Penn (who is also a very good institution).
     
  12. SicVic

    SicVic Senior Member
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    read my top ten reasons at the pre-allo sections
    <a href="http://www.studentdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009170;p=2#000025" target="_blank">Pre allo - Cornell countdown tread</a>
    :cool:
     
  13. Steve M

    Steve M New Member

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    New York is the Capital of the World, If you can make it here (you certainly) can make it anywhere...I was born in NYC, went to med school in NYC city, trained in NYC (I'm now an attending)....There is so much to do in NY at any hour I wish I had more time....on the other hand I spent time in Philly where my fiancee (now wife) trained...Philly really closes down at 8 or 9 pm.....there is no other city in the world like NY....honest....and if you school or train in NY residencies directors or later employers would love to have a NYC trained or schooled physician.
     
  14. MacGyver

    MacGyver Membership Revoked
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    New York is a cool city but come on guys... its not THAT MUCH better than Philly.

    Besides, its not like your going to have time to go to all these things that NYC supposedly offers anyways.

    I think Penn is the superior school. And even if NYC is the superior location, its not so much more superior than Philly to trump Penn.

    My analysis:

    School: Clear advantage to Penn
    Location: SLIGHT advantage to Cornell

    Overall: Advantage to Penn
     
  15. Booza

    Booza Lux et veritas
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    It's the difference between Positive infinity and negative infinity...
     
  16. Voxel

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    You'll understand later when you are trying to get the best/coveted residency and/or research position. You will kick yourself that you didn't go to Penn. If you look at the match list, while impressive at both schools, Penn's match list is clearly better. Only school in NYC that stands up to Penn is Columbia. Penn has just as much if not more research and international opportunities across many fields as Cornell. You will only have time to enjoy med school as a fourth year student. Philadelphia has enough entertainment to satisfy most people. And then you can schedule your fourth year electives in NYC.
     
  17. 8deuce

    8deuce Senior Member
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    Steve M,

    let me be the first to welcome you to SDN.
    thanks for the input. :D
     
  18. matthew0126

    matthew0126 Anaheim Angels
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    how come when people are defending a location that is less desirable/boring, they always say "besides, you won't have time to have fun anyways"
     
  19. Lt. Ub

    Lt. Ub Senior Member
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    Abram,

    I'm a third year at Penn, so of course you've got to deal with a biased opinion. But here's what I've got -

    Research: It's absolutely everywhere. Penn is second only to Harvard for NIH funding of biomedical research - millions upon millions flow through this place. Right next door is the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia which is one of the largest pediatric (basic and clinical) research institutions around. Combined, those 2 institutions are a powerhouse of research - amazingly impressive. 25 of the 150 in my class are MD/PhD students and another 20 or so are taking a year out for research purposes - it's really quite impressive what med students are able to produce here in terms of publications.

    The way our curriculum is set up we have 3 months set aside for "scholarly pursuit" during the last year and a half (during electives). I'm heading into pediatrics, and one of the fellows at Children's asked me (I didn't go to him, let alone drop any hints) to head up a retrospective study this year, and the attending (now advisor) makes no bones that I'll be published by graduation. The great thing is that I have plenty of time (3 required months, and 5 months of vacation) during the elective period to make sure this happens.

    You've got to remember that the 1.5 yrs of basic science translates into 1.5 yrs of elective time. When I begin applying to resideny programs, I will have 6 pediatric electives (including a NICU month) and my sub-I finished. And by interview time I will have finished writing up my research and (hopefully) will have it submitted for publication. Not bad in my book - quite exciting. As you can guess, I'm a big fan of the curriculum here.

    Also, since it's important to you, most days in the basics here end at 1pm - everyone is involved in extracurriculars during the "early years." Plus the organization is organ system-based with at least half of the classroom time being taught in the small group format.

    That's what I have to add. And by the way, Philly stays up just as late as you want - whoever says it shuts down at 8 must have visited the 'burbs. Just ask my aching head this morning.

    Good luck.
     
  20. abram

    abram Member
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    Voxel,

    In my comparison of Penn and Cornell, the match list does not distinguish either school, as I see them both capable of launching me into a great residency program--after all that is what I think all top 15-20 schools do for their students.

    Lt.Ub,

    I am actually at Penn right now researching in the medical center. Thus I echo your sentiments that Penn is a research powerhouse. Still, I think that Cornell, while by itself does not bring in as many millions as Penn, is part of another national powerhouse in the tri-institutional Cornell/rockefeller/Sloan-Kettering research consortium. So it appears that both schools are capable of seasoning me with all the research that I'll need to polish my residency applications. What has not really tickle me about Penn is the fact that I have not heard much about an international medicine program that is both financially and structurally established. (One would think that with 1.5 years of elective time, a trend of international electives--warranting a structured and funded program--would be established.) So if you (or anyone else) have insight in that regard, I would greatly appreciated.

    Finally, I must say that the superior ranking of Penn over Cornell is inconsequential to me. I believe that both schools can propel me to a great career heights. Thus I am trying to discern the specific academic/professional "culture" of each school in order to determine which is the best place for me. This is why I am seeking insight on SDN.
     
  21. Lt. Ub

    Lt. Ub Senior Member
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    abram,

    The int'l programs are available, but it's definitely an unstructured business here. I don't have any desire to head overseas so I can't tell you how difficult/easy it is to set these things up. I do know of many classmates who have gone and are heading overseas. The time is available to you, and if you have a desire...

    Concerning the "culture" you wish to know about, I'm not sure what you mean specifically. I'd love to help answer any questions you have. Honestly, it sounds like your heart has already decided on Cornell. Home is where the heart is!
     
  22. abram

    abram Member
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    Lt.Ub,

    the matters of the heart usually take much time to trully reveal themselves. Thus, while it is the case that my heart is oriented towards cornell, I am taking the time to thoroughly inform myself so as to convince myself that, more than Penn, Cornell is the right place for me.

    What I meant by "culture" of a specific school has to do with the fact that two institutions deemed peers of each other by virtue of their academic reputation (i.e Ivy league) each bears its own intangible identity. For example, Cornell med is known for assembling a culturally diverse class. Also 50% of the fourth year class go abroad. These two factors, in my opinion, says something about the ethos of the school. Within this same frame, Penn might be said to be a more research oriented place, as reflected in the amount of time allocated for "scholarly pursuit" and the like.

    In all, there is always a subset of traditions that mark the uniqueness of a school, even when the latter is classified within a broader group with "peer" institutions. (I am in a real rusht to catch a movie, I hope this post makes some sense). Thank you, though, for your honest and helpful insights.
     
  23. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Voxel:
    <strong>You'll understand later when you are trying to get the best/coveted residency and/or research position. You will kick yourself that you didn't go to Penn. If you look at the match list, while impressive at both schools, Penn's match list is clearly better. Only school in NYC that stands up to Penn is Columbia. Penn has just as much if not more research and international opportunities across many fields as Cornell. You will only have time to enjoy med school as a fourth year student. Philadelphia has enough entertainment to satisfy most people. And then you can schedule your fourth year electives in NYC.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Have you REALLY compared their matchlists?

    Both schools send kids to top notch programs. What I found is that Penn sent too many kids into their own programs or Philly-area programs. Take a look at their 2000 matchlist. At least 1/2 go to HUP or CHOP. This is not necessarily a bad thing but Cornell sends their kids to the same top programs except with some more variety.
     
  24. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Voxel:
    <strong>You'll understand later when you are trying to get the best/coveted residency and/or research position. You will kick yourself that you didn't go to Penn. If you look at the match list, while impressive at both schools, Penn's match list is clearly better. Only school in NYC that stands up to Penn is Columbia. Penn has just as much if not more research and international opportunities across many fields as Cornell. You will only have time to enjoy med school as a fourth year student. Philadelphia has enough entertainment to satisfy most people. And then you can schedule your fourth year electives in NYC.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Have you REALLY compared their matchlists?

    Both schools send kids to top notch programs. What I found is that Penn sent too many kids into their own programs or Philly-area programs. Take a look at their 2000 matchlist. At least 1/2 go to HUP or CHOP. This is not necessarily a bad thing but Cornell sends their kids to the same top programs except with some more variety.
     

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