Hi! Sorry this is going to be long and might repeat info that Dana already gave (I was in the middle of writing this when she posted).
First off, congrats on your acceptances, being accepted to one school is a great accomplishment, so feel proud that you have multiple acceptances to choose from! It's definitely stressful to have to choose (I was in the same position last year) but hopefully we can give you some info that will help your decision making process easier!
hopefully,
@sheepcowdoghorse23 can lend some advice since that's really her expertise!
I can sure try! Also current first year at Penn, so hopefully I can give some good information about my experience so far so you can have an idea about what to expect. One thing to note is that the curriculum has been changed entirely for V26 so you will be following the curriculum that is posted on the website whereas V25 started with and will be continuing on with the old curriculum. I'm not sure what impact that will have on class schedule and how much time you have outside of class to engage in extracurriculars, but hopefully it will remain similar to what we've had so far.
I would like to do small animal emergency medicine or shelter medicine after graduating, possibly open my own practice in the long term.
I'm currently focused on pursuing ECC in the future, although that could certainly change over the next 3.5 years! Penn has a fairly active SVECCS (Student Veterinary Emergency and Critical Care) chapter (full disclaimer: I'm on the exec board so I'm a little biased) - we do regular lunch talks with clinicians and residents as well as wet labs, like our CPR wet lab. Those are great for gaining/deepening your ECC knowledge before you get to clinics! In addition to lunch talks/ wet labs, we also do weekly ECC shadowing. Here you can sign up for a 2-hour shift at a time that fits your schedule. On your "shift" you predominantly shadow the fourth years as they go over history with clients, do their physical exams, and talk to the interns about the exam findings and what the diagnostic/treatment plan will be. It's fairly hands-off, you may be asked to hold a dog here and there or listen to a heart murmur or something, but for the most part it's just watching and getting used to the flow of the ER. When there's a lot going on, it's a great learning experience! They have been on pause/diversion a lot lately due to the increased case load so there are some shifts where you sit in the office and watch the 4th years study for the NAVLE. You can do as much or as little shadowing as you want so it's super workable with your schedule and will look good on a CV for internships/residencies if you want!
In addition to SVECCS we have other clubs that fit your interest on campus. We do have a Shelter Med Club that does some cool events, including the MLK Day of Service where students can volunteer to do exams, vaccines, etc. for free on pets from families in the surrounding community. I did it this year and it was so much fun! They also do lunch talks, etc. similar to SVECCS.
If you're interested in practice ownership, there is also a VBMA chapter here - they host talks and seminars about managing money, staff management, etc. I believe they have an annual conference that you can attend as well!
There are lots of clubs at Penn and there will hopefully be an event in the fall where new students can check out what there is to offer!
- Any comparisons of the clinical skills /surgery experience you can get at each school as a student?
I can't speak for how Cornell structures their clinical skills/surgery, but at Penn we start getting clinical experience in our first semester. It looks like that will continue on for the new curriculum as well (Hippiatrika). Currently, the first year clinical skills includes handling, normal paramaters of different species, physical exams, venipuncture, fluid selection, monitoring, etc. This continues into subsequent years with skills that require further knowledge and mastery of more "basic" skills. I think the 2nd years are currently learning how to splint legs in Ortho, just for an example.
As far as surgery experience, I'm not entirely sure exactly how much we get since V25 hasn't quite gotten there. I know starting 2nd year, at least for us, we have a Med Surg class where we learn basic surgical principals, among other things. I would hope that there would be something similar for V26 as well. There is also an elective (Student Shelter Opportunities) where you work with local shelters to perform spays/neuters for pets in the community. I'm hoping this will be an elective for my year as well as yours, I'm not sure if anything is going to change.
Additionally, there is Surgery Crew. This is something you have to apply for (so not everyone gets in) but if you do, you have the opportunity to do shifts at New Bolton Center. They're more hands on than shadowing for clubs. You get to see emergencies as they come in (so great for people interested in ECC too!) and be present as the clinicians, residents, interns, and fourth years do exams, go over findings, and make diagnostic/treatment plans. Then, if they go to surgery (say for a colic), then you get to go too! You don't get to scrub in but you can help prep the animal for surgery and watch the whole thing from start to finish!
There are also shadowing opportunities through Surgery Club. Similarly to SVECCS, students are only allowed to watch, and given COVID restrictions we are not able to go into the operating room (although I did on my shift 🤫) but can sit in on appointments, etc. Maybe in the future this will change and students will be allowed back in the OR.
Lastly, many students get surgical experience through externships during clinical year. I'm not sure how much surgery, if any, we're allowed to do in clinics due to rules and regulations. Hopefully some other Penn students can chime in!
Like I said before, I can't speak for how Cornell does things, but I can't imagine that they wouldn't have similar clubs and opportunities. I'd be interested to hear what my peers who attend/have attended Cornell have to say! I think both schools will prepare you similarly surgery-wise with the knowledge and opportunities that you have.
- Any insight on how competitive vs collaborative the culture is?
So speaking from my personal experience, I've found the culture to be fairly collaborative! We're all working towards the same thing and learning together, I haven't met anyone yet that has refused to help me if I asked for it. It's definitely a different vibe than undergrad, there's more of a "we're all in this together" attitude that we've adopted.
- Any insight on how COVID has affected each of these programs? Especially for first 2 years?
While we have COVID protocols in place (double masking, masks inside, eating six feet apart, regular testing, etc.), we are still having classes and labs in person for now. I know last year was a different story. They did change our anatomy labs to every other day, which led to some material being cut out. With the curriculum change, I'm not sure what your schedule will be like. We have had some challenges, especially recently with classmates getting COVID, but that hasn't changed any thing thus far. Every lecture is recorded and recordings and slides are made available, which is nice because you don't even need to go to class if you don't want (stream team all the way)! They're not predicting anything changing any time soon, so hopefully it continues to be this way for the rest of this year and subsequent years as well.
- Pros/cons of the city/environment?
So when deciding on what school I was going to attend, it was important to me to be in a city. There's tons to do in Philadelphia, restaurants, museums, bars, sports, and more! The whole city is very accessible either through walking, biking, public transport, etc. Housing is plentiful, even close to the school. It is affordable too, no matter your budget, and you can generally find something for every budget. You can also choose to live outside the city and take the train/drive in daily, I have many classmates that prefer to do that. One reason I chose to be in a city environment is for the diversity that we have here, within the vet school and in the community. I feel like being in such a diverse environment will help me be able to put myself in other's shoes in different situations, which is important when you are a clinician (and just in life in general!). Ryan Hospital has a pretty high caseload, so it's pretty much guaranteed you'll see some interesting things during your four years here!
Cons of the city - lots of people. If you don't like the hustle and bustle of a city, then Penn probably isn't for you. We share our little area of West Philly with the undergrad campus as well as the med school, dental school, and other grad schools, as well as Drexel University, plus all of the people that live and work here. There is always something happening, and in non-covid times the city is buzzing! (This could also be a pro too, depending on what you prefer).
Another con would be how far away NBC is from the city. On a good day its about 45 minutes to an hour away. With traffic that'll definitely be longer. Luckily during first year (not sure about 2nd year and on) we only go out to NBC like, twice. I could see how as a third and fourth year it would be frustrating. There are dorms at NBC for clinical year students and many people swap apartments and stay with friends during their rotations, so there are ways to manage it.
If you have any further questions about living in Philly, feel free to message me. I'd be happy to share my experiences!
- How much does vet school ranking matter/play a role in the quality of education you get?
Vet school ranking has no effect on the quality of education you get. You will get the same education at every AVMA accredited school. You will not be a worse doctor if you attend a "lower ranked" school and you won't be a better doctor if you attend a "higher ranked" school.
- Which of these schools would better prepare you with good surgical skills & to be a good practicing clinician out of school?
Both prepare you with similar knowledge to be a good surgeon/clinician. The real determining factor of whether or not you'll be successful is how hard you work and apply the knowledge learned. Penn has excellent resources to help you succeed, and I'm sure Cornell does as well.
Hope this answers your questions! Ultimately I think that you need to think about what kind of an environment you want to be in (city vs. rural), proximity to family, and consider which curriculum better fits your learning style. Look into extracurriculars at each school and see which school has clubs for what you're interested in (I bet they're both similar!). If you can, tour the schools. I was able to tour my top choices before making a decision, which really helped me decide! And definitely talk to students from both schools about their experiences, I think that will be most valuable for you!
Congrats on your acceptances again! If you have any further questions that I or my peers can answer, feel free to message me or put them in this thread! 🙂
