Cornell

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I notice*of the 9 PGY-1s, 5 are FMGs, including 3 Carribean grads, which is inconsistent with the credentials of the upper level residents. Strikes me as odd. Have there been significant changes over the last few years that have made the program less competitive?

 

[pathstudent]

I notice*of the 9 PGY-1s, 5 are FMGs, including 3 Carribean grads, which is inconsistent with the credentials of the upper level residents. Strikes me as odd. Have there been significant changes over the last few years that have made the program less competitive?

Given that NYC is such an incredibly desirable city for people in their 20s to live in, I doubt it has to do anything with the program. It probably has to do more with the drop in number of applicants secondary to numerous factors (deteriorating job market, commoditzation of the field, decreased respect from other physicians, loss of autonomy etc....)

 

[scienceguy19]

I think American grads are applying in fewer numbers. Seems to be an increasing number of foreign grads in most path programs.
It's not that they lack interest in pathology but they aren't stupid.
They know that the job market for pathology is bad.
I still don't know why we are overtraining pathologists when we could be training more primary care doctors to support Obamacare.

 

[KeratinPearls]

There are a large number of FMGs and Carribean students in Path. There are a fair number of US grads as well. It has nothing to do with the program. I think there arent as many US grads in Path as some other fields. I dont know if the numbers are declining or what.

I wouldn't take the fact that because a program fills with FMGs and Carribean grads the program is bad. There are those in this group that have good board scores and have multiple publications. Just because you are a FMG and Carrib grad doesnt make you inferior. A few of the FMGs I have met were pathologists in their country, some switched from another field (I think because the field they were in in their country are competitive in the US). Ive also met some US grads who switched over from surgery into path. Ive also met some ppl who I dont think should be in Path at all (poor work ethic).

Path is not a competitive field so I think those who are FMGs who cannot get into another residency choose to do it. Some FMGs have language issues, so they choose Path. The quality of graduating residents is variable.

 

[DrThrowAway]

3 people left the program in 2011, 3 people in 2012 (two of them to other pathology programs), and two people have already decided to quit this year. That should speak for itself...

 

[KeratinPearls]

3 people left the program in 2011, 3 people in 2012 (two of them to other pathology programs), and two people have already decided to quit this year. That should speak for itself...

If you dont mind me asking...why are ppl leaving the program? Why did those ppl quit (did they switch path entirely and go into another field)? This does not sound good.

 

[abc123puck]

I would be interested to know as well since I just got an interview there and had previously considered it to be in that top tier of programs

 

[pathstudent]

I would be interested to know as well since I just got an interview there and had previously considered it to be in that top tier of programs

It probably depends about what you mean by top tier of programs, but hey it is in Manhattan with subsidized housing. You can't really beat that. Who cares what tier it is.

 

[last cookie]

3 people left the program in 2011, 3 people in 2012 (two of them to other pathology programs), and two people have already decided to quit this year. That should speak for itself...

It doesn't speak for itself at all! I think we would all like more information!!!

 

[DrThrowAway]

Well, their residency director just stepped down, after having presided over this mass exodus. Residents were frequently staying until 1:00 and 2:00 in the morning just to get the less-educational portion of their work completed before the next morning. They were having lots of trouble with the 80 hour work week rule, which most of them were frequently breaking. They were also being pressured to report their work hours dishonestly, so the program would not go on probation. There were numerous other problems, to which I am not privy, but they were obviously severe if so many people preferred the stigma of a program switch to the lives they were living as residents there. I would definitely do my homework and find someone who knows all the details before I interviewed there...

 

[abc123puck]

Anyone know any additional info about the troubles that Cornell has been having?

 

[deleted113029]

There are a large number of FMGs and Carribean students in Path. There are a fair number of US grads as well. It has nothing to do with the program. I think there arent as many US grads in Path as some other fields. I dont know if the numbers are declining or what.

I wouldn't take the fact that because a program fills with FMGs and Carribean grads the program is bad. There are those in this group that have good board scores and have multiple publications. Just because you are a FMG and Carrib grad doesnt make you inferior. A few of the FMGs I have met were pathologists in their country, some switched from another field (I think because the field they were in in their country are competitive in the US). Ive also met some US grads who switched over from surgery into path. Ive also met some ppl who I dont think should be in Path at all (poor work ethic).

Path is not a competitive field so I think those who are FMGs who cannot get into another residency choose to do it. Some FMGs have language issues, so they choose Path. The quality of graduating residents is variable.

worst thing that can happen. put an FMG with language issues on the front line of patient care; providing incoherent/ambiguous diagnoses. great!

 

[moonraker]

Path is not a competitive field so I think those who are FMGs who cannot get into another residency choose to do it.

This is the problem. Pathology is a refugee field. Why do we entertain applications from any applicant (FMG or AMG) who cannot get into another field? We seem to have resigned ourselves to accepting this unfortunate reality.

We have two options:

1) Limit trainee spots or don't fill them! This has direct effects on the job market.

2) Fill the trainee spots but don't give a significant subset of graduates jobs after training! Of course, this will have effects on the perception of the job market as the idiots come b*tching and moaning about the crappy job market.

I favor #1. We gotta nip this **** in the bud! Move the bottleneck more upstream in the process.

 

[pianoguy05]

This is the problem. Pathology is a refugee field. Why do we entertain applications from any applicant (FMG or AMG) who cannot get into another field? We seem to have resigned ourselves to accepting this unfortunate reality.

We have two options:

1) Limit trainee spots or don't fill them! This has direct effects on the job market.

2) Fill the trainee spots but don't give a significant subset of graduates jobs after training! Of course, this will have effects on the perception of the job market as the idiots come b*tching and moaning about the crappy job market.

I favor #1. We gotta nip this **** in the bud! Move the bottleneck more upstream in the process.

It's tough for me to disagree with Choice #1 if only 50% of the spots available are even applied to by AMG's (NMRP for past 3 years has stated this in their annual reports). The thing is, it's really a niche field. You've got to be willing to go to Med School for 4 years and then say "I don't mind avoiding patient care" in order to continue in - not many med students will do this. Truth be told, I don't think a lot of medical students go into medicine stating "man, I'd sure like to look at skin and moles for the rest of my life" - yet Derm is a remarkably competitive field because they've adjusted/catered to the fact that they too have a niche field.

 

[psgdoc]

I guess it's nice having a Cornell thread on this site. Perhaps the only thing worse than being talked about, is not being talked about, but I'd like to address some misleading comments. I’m currently in my third year of residency at Cornell, and love it. I think the training, mentoring, support and encouragement I’ve encountered have been in the best interests of my career. I like it so much that I’m staying to do my fellowship. It is definitely not the sinking ship that these anonymous comments would indicate.

There were a few transfers recently, but I don't consider it a black eye for the program (or any program). If a 1st year resident decides they made a big mistake and that pathology is actually not the right career for them after all, they should do what’s best for their career and transfer. Likewise, when a resident needs to move closer to home for family reasons, it's unfortunate, but not reflective of the program per se. I also don't think Cornell is unique in either of these scenarios.

The program director did not step down because she 'presided over a mass exodus' of the residents. On the contrary, she was an excellent program director and she stepped down in order to accept a promotion elsewhere. The new program director, who has been involved with resident education for years, is also fantastic, very energetic and is going to be a terrific catalyst for the training program moving forward.

The residents are excellent, accomplished, hard working and dedicated. Cornell has never failed to fill through the match and only rank quality applicants including foreign medical graduates. Everyone I know from Cornell has passed their boards, gotten the fellowships they wanted and have ended up in good jobs afterwards.

I would visit Cornell and get the information first hand before believing a random, anonymous post.

Paula

 

[LADoc00]

3 people leaving in one year is fairly huge for Pathology (maybe not so much for Surgery or big class programs). I haven't heard about that occurring under anything but extraordinary circumstances.

the fact it occurred 2 years running indicates you need to look under the hood quite carefully.

NYC ALWAYS has had a reputation for attracting mostly FMG candidates, all the programs there actually.

I would personally never go to a program with that high of a percent FMGs but to each his own.

In reality though, you can learn Pathology almost anywhere if you are motivated enough.

PS- 9 PGY-1s?! What the...people need to stop asking where all the podlabs come from, they come from this crap.
Cornell should have like 2 trainees per year MAX.

 

[LIT2012]

Heard they have frequent attending turnover as well.