Couple's match frustration!!!

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MDWoochie

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My husband and I are trying to couple's match FM and EM, and boy, does it suck. We don't like the same areas or the same programs, and he didn't get interviews at any west coast programs.

Anyone have similiar stories and want to commiserate?

I'd like to hear any success stories too, I need the inspiration.
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I'm not couples matching...although I think anyone who is married with or without kids is in effect couples matching...it's really, really hard to find a place that pleases everyone.

I can't offer any success or comiseration with the couples match, but I will tell you that the couples I've met on interviews are all going through the exact thing you describe, except for the ones who are both applying to FM.

In the end, I think if you can work out an acceptable compromise for you both, your marriage will be stronger for it.

Best of luck to you both!
 
Yup, went through this....

My advise....

BE VERY CAREFUL... if he is stuck scrambling after the match, they wont tell you where you matched for 2 days.... meaning your husband will not know where the heck to apply.... meanwhile, the positions will drop down like flies...

Tell your husband to apply EVERYWHERE when it comes down to scrambling.... Doing the first year of residency apart is a hard reality but you might have to go through it.... It's better than either of you without residency/research for a year. Transfering, though not easy, is better than waiting.
 
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Really, is it better to be apart? What are the chances that you'll be able to get back to being together after first year?

I think my husband has a decent chance of matching, he has 10 interviews, but me finding a place I want to be is a different story. Pretty much all his interviews are in the mid-Atlantic which I hear is not great if you want to do OB.

Can you tell more about the experience Faebinder?
 
MDWoochie said:
Really, is it better to be apart? What are the chances that you'll be able to get back to being together after first year?

I think my husband has a decent chance of matching, he has 10 interviews, but me finding a place I want to be is a different story. Pretty much all his interviews are in the mid-Atlantic which I hear is not great if you want to do OB.

Can you tell more about the experience Faebinder?
Click to expand...

If you are family medicine, you can contact the programs near your husband and find something to transfer into, work on it after a month or so into the residency.... Likewise your husband can do the same... use the program directors to your advantage... you'll have a greater push with them being on your side. It will be easier for an FM resident to transfer than an EM resident cause FM is less competitive and more positions are out there.

Waiting a year BLOWS! I understand living apart from your husband blows... but this is the life of career vs family... You have to follow the career for now... As you interview, tell them the truth: If choosing between family and career, you will favor career and hope that family can be worked out later.

Delaying your residency is not your/his advantage at all. It's like a band aid, faster you take it off, the less painful. Good Luck with your ordeal and I hope you end up together for both your sakes.
 
Faebinder said:
As you interview, tell them the truth: If choosing between family and career, you will favor career and hope that family can be worked out later.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...I'm not sure this is everyone's truth....

The more I consider which residency program to choose, the more my heart pulls me toward the one that will be better for my family, even though my head knows there's another program that would give me a slight advantage with procedures and OB.

Consider what really matters to you...imagine a situation where you either had to give up your career or your family--which would you choose? If you say you'd rather give up career, there is your answer to what has priority. That doesn't mean you have to give up either, obviously...but it might mean you make concessions regarding your career in order to be with your husband, or vice versa.

As for OB, you can (and probably should, even with good OB experience in residency) do a fellowship if you want to do OB.
 
sophiejane said:
Hmmm...I'm not sure this is everyone's truth....

The more I consider which residency program to choose, the more my heart pulls me toward the one that will be better for my family, even though my head knows there's another program that would give me a slight advantage with procedures and OB.

Consider what really matters to you...imagine a situation where you either had to give up your career or your family--which would you choose? If you say you'd rather give up career, there is your answer to what has priority. That doesn't mean you have to give up either, obviously...but it might mean you make concessions regarding your career in order to be with your husband, or vice versa.

As for OB, you can (and probably should, even with good OB experience in residency) do a fellowship if you want to do OB.
Click to expand...

We are speaking about location where she has to pick a) match at location X but her husband is in another city at location Y.... or b) her husband matches and she doesn't match, waits another year to apply in the area meanwhile doing research/or-whatever.

I would say take option A.... option B sucks.
 
MDWoochie,

I am only an M1 so I don't have match experience, however since I've been married ten years and have three kids and a widowed mother-in-law with a chronic disability I have experience with career/family compromises and will be asking my wife to be very involved in choosing the residency programs to apply to and rank.
With that background, IMHO you and your husband will have better success careerwise if your homelife is happy and that is most likely if you are together. It seems you are concerned about the OB experience you may lack if you go to a Mid-Atlantic program, rather than a specific dislike of a program. You should get adequate experience at any program and my understanding is that program's, especially family medicine, do allow a little wiggle room to focus on your individual interests.
My suggestion is that if you desire more OB training, you go for a 1 year OB fellowship after you and your husband finish residency. Is his EM residency 3yr as well?

Perhaps I should add that my father and grandfather are physicians as well, so I know how much family contributes to effective doctoring:)
 
Don't know of you applied or interviewed there, but jefferson in philly has a pretty strong OB component to its family med program. They have several attendings who do OB, including one who is actually dual-boarded in ObGyn and FM. And there never seems to be an end to the family medicine patients on the L&D floor!
 
Faebinder said:
We are speaking about location where she has to pick a) match at location X but her husband is in another city at location Y.... or b) her husband matches and she doesn't match, waits another year to apply in the area meanwhile doing research/or-whatever.

I would say take option A.... option B sucks.
Click to expand...


I dunno, My husband and I had spent two years apart when we were dating, it nearly broke us apart.
Without a guarantee you could get back to each other, I don't know that this is really the better option.
As far as using program directors, so far that hasn't worked. I have had 3 program directors that liked me for FM, ask EM residency directors to re-look at my husband's application, were 0/3.
 
burlypie said:
Don't know of you applied or interviewed there, but jefferson in philly has a pretty strong OB component to its family med program. They have several attendings who do OB, including one who is actually dual-boarded in ObGyn and FM. And there never seems to be an end to the family medicine patients on the L&D floor!
Click to expand...

I got offered an interview there, but couldn't schedule it for the life of me!!
There secretary is very tight with the interview dates. She only told me of like 4 in November, and then didn't let me know about December or Jan, when I checked back, they were fully booked.
 
Your only hope is for you both to match and then try transfering... otherwise one of you will need to wait out.... and I dont recommend waiting out because it is more likely to break you up (money, hidden envy of the other starting which can lead to unsurfaced resentment, frustration of new match next year, family respect, plus more..) It is easier for FM to transfer than it is for EM....

Careers blow I know... It's your call.. I gave my two cents of experience.
 
sophiejane said:
Hmmm...I'm not sure this is everyone's truth....


Consider what really matters to you...imagine a situation where you either had to give up your career or your family--which would you choose? If you say you'd rather give up career, there is your answer to what has priority. That doesn't mean you have to give up either, obviously...but it might mean you make concessions regarding your career in order to be with your husband, or vice versa.

As for OB, you can (and probably should, even with good OB experience in residency) do a fellowship if you want to do OB.
Click to expand...


I think you are right, I think for me, family matters most, but it's close. I certainly wnat to be able to have the career I want though, I'd be no good to my husband if I was truly unhappy at my job.

As far as OB, I think you are wrong about having to do an OB fellowship. If you go to a program that is strong in OB you should only need to do a fellowship if you want to do surgical OB. That is what an OB fellowship is, C-sections, not routine deliveries. And if you go to a program that's weak in OB, what are the chances that they'd consider you for an OB fellowship? they want the people who have tons of routine OB, and in addition want to do surgical OB.
 
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Faebinder said:
Your only hope is for you both to match and then try transfering... otherwise one of you will need to wait out.... and I dont recommend waiting out because it is more likely to break you up (money, hidden envy of the other starting which can lead to unsurfaced resentment, frustration of new match next year, plus more..) It is easier for FM to transfer than it is for EM....

Careers blow I know... It's your call.. I gave my two cents of experience.
Click to expand...

So I take it that you guys transferred? And it worked out?
 
we sat apart for this year... this match i got a bunch of interviews around her location.... but the separation is killer... lotsa pressure.. money frustrations... a kid is involved... a crazy mother in law...i can complicate it more but dirty laundry is embarrassing to talk about... When it rains it pours...

Don't follow my route.... i should have just gone with whatever i had available. life would have been better now.
 
Faebinder said:
we sat apart for this year... this match i got a bunch of interviews around her location.... but the separation is killer... lotsa pressure.. money frustrations... a kid is involved... a crazy mother in law...i can complicate it more but dirty laundry is embarrassing to talk about... When it rains it pours...

Don't follow my route.... i should have just gone with whatever i had available. life would have been better now.
Click to expand...

Another thought (and your experiences seem to suggest this might be in hindsight what you wish you did---but don't beat yourself up for hindsight because it's 50/50 and 20/20 at the same time :rolleyes: ) that two of my friends used (engaged, no children so more flexibility than some on this thread have) was to not couples match per se but to coordinate their rank lists in blocks. Ultimately they both matched in the same state, and managed to get married (and live together) after their intern year. She did an EM program that had very little off-service after intern year so she was able to organize shifts well enough to allow for a slightly longer than typical commute and they lived near the hospital where he did surgery.

Seriously Faebinder best of luck with the match this spring. I hope everything works out the way you want it to.
 
MDWoochie said:
As far as OB, I think you are wrong about having to do an OB fellowship. If you go to a program that is strong in OB you should only need to do a fellowship if you want to do surgical OB. That is what an OB fellowship is, C-sections, not routine deliveries. And if you go to a program that's weak in OB, what are the chances that they'd consider you for an OB fellowship? they want the people who have tons of routine OB, and in addition want to do surgical OB.
Click to expand...

I don't want to hijack because we've had this discussion on other threads, but I guess it is a matter of personal preference. Even at a program with "strong" OB, I think it's wise to do a fellowship, particularly for the experience of being primary on C-sections.

I know I am not alone in my conviction that if you aren't prepared to do sections, you have no business doing OB. What are you going to do for patients who need an emergency section and there is no one but you available to do it, and you've only done 5 in residency? If you are an FP wanting to do OB, you will very likely be doing it in a rural area. If you don't do sections, you are going to need to have a partner or an OB in the same town willing to be on call for you (and that means MINUTES away) when a patient needs one. Good luck finding that situation.

Don't want to rain on your parade, just offering another perspective. I've done a lot of thinking, question asking, and research on this topic. Believe me, I'd love to not have to do a fellowship!
 
I agree with you that you should probably do C-sections if you want to do OB in a rural area. I do think it is possible to do OB and be first assist on your C-sections. I mean, midwives don't do C-sections and they practice right?

It is possible. I think I may want to do an OB Fellowship, but I haven't yet decided. There certainly are people who do OB and not C-sections. I mean, look at any program you apply to, how many FP's practice OB, and how many are fellowship trained. It's at least 5:1.

As far as if the program isn't strong in OB, "do a fellowship" won't prepare you to do routine deliveries, and I think doing 40 during residency, which probably maybe 20 you'll actually be doing the entire delivery and expecting you'll be proficient, you're fooling yourself.
 
MDWoochie said:
I mean, midwives don't do C-sections and they practice right?
Click to expand...

Right...but midwives don't have medical licenses, and you will. They send emergent sections to the hospital, sometimes with disastrous outcomes.

Having a medical license means you are responsible if something goes wrong. If you agree to accept responsibility for an obstetrical patient, in my opinion, you are negligent if you can't deliver the baby either vaginally or surgically, depending on which method is best for mother and/or baby. You cannot rely on another physician being available if you need to do an emergent section. Furthermore, emergent sections are frequently more complicated than planned sections because there is bleeding, malpresentation, fetal distress, etc. You simply cannot get the volume of those types of cases in your **typical** 3 year FP residency. Of course there are exceptions to that (did you guys apply to JPS in Ft. Worth? Excellent OB, and there are EM programs nearby, in Dallas).

I don't know of many people who want to do OB that willingly choose a program where they will only get 40 SVDs. Those programs generally graduate docs who do outpatient medicine only, and most are pretty honest about it.
 
I'm still hoping for an inspiring couple's match story:)
 
MDWoochie said:
My husband and I are trying to couple's match FM and EM, and boy, does it suck. We don't like the same areas or the same programs, and he didn't get interviews at any west coast programs.

Anyone have similiar stories and want to commiserate?

I'd like to hear any success stories too, I need the inspiration.
Click to expand...

If your combined goal is to match into ANY EM and FM program than the one matching to EM should apply / interview / rank EVERYWHERE as EM is so much more competetive. The one applying to FM will have a MUCH easier time matching. The best thing to do would be to find a metropolitan area with a lot of residencies within driving distance of each other (I dont know about the west coast) but on the east coast the NY-NJ-CT tristate area is a prime example there are literally hundreds of residencies here within driving distance of each other.
 
LanceArmstrong said:
If your combined goal is to match into ANY EM and FM program than the one matching to EM should apply / interview / rank EVERYWHERE as EM is so much more competetive. The one applying to FM will have a MUCH easier time matching. The best thing to do would be to find a metropolitan area with a lot of residencies within driving distance of each other (I dont know about the west coast) but on the east coast the NY-NJ-CT tristate area is a prime example there are literally hundreds of residencies here within driving distance of each other.
Click to expand...


I want to match at a good program, not just any FM program, I think that I pretty much will get my choice, considering how uncompetitive FM is. I do want my husband to match, but I'm not just gonna go to any crummy program.
 
MDWoochie said:
I want to match at a good program, not just any FM program, I think that I pretty much will get my choice, considering how uncompetitive FM is.
Click to expand...

All "noncompetitive" means is that you're pretty likely to match somewhere. It doesn't necessarily imply that you'll be able to hand-pick your program.
 
Agree with Kent. Unfilled programs go unfilled for a reason, they ARE "noncompetitive". Programs that fill every year, however, well....we'll see how it turns out, but I wouldn't be counting my chickens just yet if I were you. Not that you won't get your #1, you likely will, but it's not a guarantee.
 
I think that if you are competitive in FM, you can at least get your top 3.
 
sophiejane said:
Agree with Kent. Unfilled programs go unfilled for a reason, they ARE "noncompetitive". Programs that fill every year, however, well....we'll see how it turns out, but I wouldn't be counting my chickens just yet if I were you. Not that you won't get your #1, you likely will, but it's not a guarantee.
Click to expand...

The interesting part is that you will see less and less FM programs unfilled because the number of programs are dropping....

BTW, I think that's sooooo COOL!!!! Less supply.

Here is nrmp data.

FM positions been dropping from 2962 in 2002 to 2711 in 2006.

I ran the data through my trusty statistical program and ....

it's a frigging linear regression (i didn't even need to use a special regression statistical test)... p = 0.0014 and r-squared = 0.9780 (which is very very high).

My software predicts that there will be 2645 in 2007.... wonder how far off will it be... I bet it will be more like 2680 because there is a lot of competition this year.
 
Faebinder said:
FM positions been dropping from 2962 in 2002 to 2711 in 2006.

I ran the data through my trusty statistical program and ....

it's a frigging linear regression (i didn't even need to use a special regression statistical test)... p = 0.0014 and r-squared = 0.9780 (which is very very high).

My software predicts that there will be 2645 in 2007.... wonder how far off will it be... I bet it will be more like 2680 because there is a lot of competition this year.
Click to expand...

This is OT, but do you use JMP (jump) as your statistical software? I have been hooked since using it in my biostats course.
 
racerx said:
This is OT, but do you use JMP (jump) as your statistical software? I have been hooked since using it in my biostats course.
Click to expand...


Try graphpad... from www.graphpad.com

It's made easy for dummies... (No, I'm not calling you a dummy..)

Best of luck...:cool:
 
Mostly because I just want to keep my post alive, I am happy to announce that my husband got off the waitlist and got an interview in EM at UNC, my #1 choice, all because of our persistence. There is hope!!!

1/4 when begging program directors for interviews for other specialties, but there is hope!!!:) :) :)
 
sophiejane said:
Faebinder, your nerdiness knows no bounds. ;)
Click to expand...

Indeed.... I am invincible!!
lolsign.gif
 
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