Course Recommendations

[deleted600623]

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I've planned out my spring schedule and was wondering if I should add another science course or focus on some ECs. I'm currently going to take physiology and physics along with 3 major courses. Should I add microbiology to my course load to boost my sGPA (3.2) or should I focus on getting research experience and more clinical experience. I currently volunteer for a free health clinic that I helped start and volunteer for my church every Saturday. I've been on a medical missions trip to Ecuador and have worked in a clinical setting for the past 2 summers.

 

[SnakeOilForSale]

The most important thing to do right now is to higher your GPA into a competitive range. The best way to do that is by taking a manageable courseload, and 3 sciences along with 3 major classes seems as if it would be very challenging. I'm ignoring the should/shouldn't I volunteer thing because it really isn't as important as highering your GPA.

 

[deleted600623]

I'm not sure I understand. You're saying I shouldn't take micro and focus on physiology and physics?

 

[ProudMD]

The most important thing to do right now is to higher your GPA into a competitive range. The best way to do that is by taking a manageable courseload, and 3 sciences along with 3 major classes seems as if it would be very challenging. I'm ignoring the should/shouldn't I volunteer thing because it really isn't as important as highering your GPA.

At my undergrad, it would be suicide.

And OP, you need to ask yourself why your sGPA is on the low side. Is it because of heavy EC involvement? Or is it because that you kept on taking too many science classes at the same time? And what year are you currently?

 

[SnakeOilForSale]

I'm not sure I understand. You're saying I shouldn't take micro and focus on physiology and physics?

I'm saying your sGPA isn't that competitive and that you should do whatever it takes to make it higher, and taking a bunch of challenging courses at once probably isn't the best way to do that for most people. Taking more science classes isn't the solution if it sacrifices your grades in them, you need to get A's in the ones you do take.

 

[deleted600623]

@ProudMD My sGPA is on the low side because I've been 1 or 2 percentage points from obtaining A's and thus getting B's. The only C I have is ochem 1. I believe it's because I've been taking too many science classes at the same time. I'm currently a junior but will graduate in 5 years.

 

[deleted600623]

@SnakeOilForSale Okay I understand now. Thanks.

 

[SnakeOilForSale]

@ProudMD My sGPA is on the low side because I've been 1 or 2 percentage points from obtaining A's and thus getting B's. The only C I have is ochem 1. I believe it's because I've been taking too many science classes at the same time. I'm currently a junior but will graduate in 5 years.

with this courseload, how?! Are you like quadruple majoring?

 

[ProudMD]

@ProudMD My sGPA is on the low side because I've been 1 or 2 percentage points from obtaining A's and thus getting B's. The only C I have is ochem 1. I believe it's because I've been taking too many science classes at the same time. I'm currently a junior but will graduate in 5 years.

If you believe that you are taking too many science classes at the same time, then I definitely don't recommend taking 3 of them together. I would limit to 2 science classes per semester at most.

Also, if you are taking 5 years to graduate, why are you in such a hurry jamming so many classes into one semester? An average semester load is 4 classes, and you are planning on 6. Why?

Lastly, does your school do A-/B+?

 

[deleted600623]

I've always been under the impression that medical schools like to see that you can take a heavier course load so that they see that you can handle it. I also need to take the MCAT soon. No it does not do A-/B+.

 

[ski89]

@ProudMD My sGPA is on the low side because I've been 1 or 2 percentage points from obtaining A's and thus getting B's. The only C I have is ochem 1. I believe it's because I've been taking too many science classes at the same time. I'm currently a junior but will graduate in 5 years.

So you have 6 semesters (including fall '14) until you graduate right? With a 3.2 gpa your focus must be getting A's for the rest of your undergrad. It sounds like you have some good ECs under your belt and you should continue to pursue those.

In other words, I recommend that you take as many classes as you can while maintaining all As. Only you know what that number is.

 

[SnakeOilForSale]

I've always been under the impression that medical schools like to see that you can take a heavier course load so that they see that you can handle it. I also need to take the MCAT soon. No it does not do A-/B+.

I'm really not trying to be rude, but the problem here is that you can't really handle it apparently. It's better to take a normal courseload and do well at it than try to be impressive by taking too many courses and getting B's in all of them.

 

[ProudMD]

I've always been under the impression that medical schools like to see that you can take a heavier course load so that they see that you can handle it. I also need to take the MCAT soon. No it does not do A-/B+.

That's largely a false impression.

And it really sucks that your school doesn't do A-/B+. That really is unfair.

 

[butternutsquash]

Take what you can handle and do well in those courses. Your main goal is to get your GPA up. If that means 2 science classes instead of 3, just take two.

 

[deleted600623]

@ski89 No I have 5 semesters including fall '14. I should specify it'll be technically 4 1/2 since I started full time in the spring of 2012. I could go another semester but I want to establish residency in Georgia and go to Mercer but they only accept MCAT scores up to 2 years old.. ie. MCAT 2016- gap year for residency- then application. Hope that makes sense.

 

[deleted600623]

@ProudMD I can thank my old pre med advisor for that impression... But tell me about it.
@butternutsquash Okay. Thanks!

 

[ProudMD]

@ProudMD I can thank my old pre med advisor for that impression... But tell me about it.
@butternutsquash Okay. Thanks!

Unless you are only taking 1-2 science courses per YEAR, the "rigor" of your schedule is largely irrelevant. On a related note, a 3.9 GPA as a dance major >> a 3.5 GPA as an engineering major. It may be unfair, but that's how it works.

 

[premedbrah]

Unless you are only taking 1-2 science courses per YEAR, the "rigor" of your schedule is largely irrelevant. On a related note, a 3.9 GPA as a dance major >> a 3.5 GPA as an engineering major. It may be unfair, but that's how it works.

Whoa whoa... really??

 

[deleted600623]

Wow. Wish I would've known that sooner. Thanks for the info!

 

[ProudMD]

Whoa whoa... really??

Unfortunately, yes.

 

[deleted600623]

@gyngyn Is that true about admissions committees? Do they really consider higher GPA better overall no matter the degree?

 

[ski89]

@gyngyn Is that true about admissions committees? Do they really consider higher GPA better overall no matter the degree?

Yes and no. It is true that your major does not matter. However, your course load and perceived level of difficulty of those courses does matter. If you have a 3.9 as a dance major but only took 13 credits a semester and took only the required prereqs (i.e. no upper division science courses) then ADCOMs will see through this as an inflated GPA compared to a the engineering major that has a 3.5 while taking 17 credits a semester.

In sum, your degree does not matter, your course load/course difficulty does.

 

[deleted600623]

Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by upper division science courses?

 

[gyngyn]

@gyngyn Is that true about admissions committees? Do they really consider higher GPA better overall no matter the degree?

We expect you to distinguish yourself in your chosen field of study and show sufficient competency in the sciences.
The MCAT is the great equalizer for those who would "game" the system.

 

[ProudMD]

Yes and no. It is true that your major does not matter. However, your course load and perceived level of difficulty of those courses does matter. If you have a 3.9 as a dance major but only took 13 credits a semester and took only the required prereqs (i.e. no upper division science courses) then ADCOMs will see through this as an inflated GPA compared to a the engineering major that has a 3.5 while taking 17 credits a semester.

In sum, your degree does not matter, your course load/course difficulty does.

The course load will only matter if there's a disparity in the MCAT score. But assuming equal MCAT scores, the dance major will absolutely win out versus the engineering major. 3.9 versus 3.5 is a huge difference, and no major/course load can mediate the disparity. Fortunately, most of the times, the engineering major will have a much higher MCAT than the dance major.

So in short, a dance major with a super light course load, 3.9 GPA, and 35 MCAT will be much more desirable than an engineering major with a super heavy course load, 3.5 GPA, and 35 MCAT.

 

[ski89]

The course load will only matter if there's a disparity in the MCAT score. But assuming equal MCAT scores, the dance major will absolutely win out versus the engineering major. 3.9 versus 3.5 is a huge difference, and no major/course load can mediate the disparity. Fortunately, most of the times, the engineering major will have a much higher MCAT than the dance major.

So in short, a dance major with a super light course load, 3.9 GPA, and 35 MCAT will be much more desirable than an engineering major with a super heavy course load, 3.5 GPA, and 35 MCAT.

My statement that course load matters is taken verbatim from my state medical school and I doubt that they are the only school that operates this way. Admissions committees don't just stare in awe of a 3.9 GPA, they look at it in the context of the applicant's course load, difficulty of course work, whether they are working or not, etc.

So to your point, I would seriously doubt the validity of your statement that a dance major with a light course load, 3.9 GPA will be much more desirable than an engineering major with a heavy course load, 3.5 -- it's just too much of a blanket statement.

Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by upper division science courses?

An upper division science course is any science course that is intended for juniors or seniors and will have course numbers in the 3000s-4000s (or higher for graduate level courses). Common examples are Biochemistry, Molecular Cell Biology, Physical Chemistry, and many many more.

 

[ProudMD]

My statement that course load matters is taken verbatim from my state medical school and I doubt that they are the only school that operates this way. Admissions committees don't just stare in awe of a 3.9 GPA, they look at it in the context of the applicant's course load, difficulty of course work, whether they are working or not, etc.

So to your point, I would seriously doubt the validity of your statement that a dance major with a light course load, 3.9 GPA will be much more desirable than an engineering major with a heavy course load, 3.5 -- it's just too much of a blanket statement.



An upper division science course is any science course that is intended for juniors or seniors and will have course numbers in the 3000s-4000s (or higher for graduate level courses). Common examples are Biochemistry, Molecular Cell Biology, Physical Chemistry, and many many more.

Did you miss the part where I said "assuming equal MCAT scores"?

A dance major with a 3.9 and 35 >>>>>>> an engineering major with a 3.5 and 35.

 

[ski89]

No I didn't mis that. Did you mis the part where I said that the importance placed on course load/degree of difficulty is a verbatim statement from the associate dean of a medical school?

You can call it N=1 and do with it what you want, but your above statement is a generalization and fails to take into account to nuances of the review process, especially those schools that truly embrace the idea of holistic review.

I like the way my premed advisor explains the process that med schools go through when they review transcripts. She calls it a "transcript autopsy". ADCOMs have seen enough applications to recognize and appreciate that some majors are significantly more difficult than others, especially when you increasing the credit count by 4.

I will concede that the greater the difference in GPA, the less course load/difficulty matters. If you move into the realm of 4.0 vs 3.4 then obviously course load is going to carry little significance in comparing these two candidates. But on the flip side, a comparison of 3.6 vs 3.8 makes for a very interesting discussion.

If the question were 3.6 engineer (35mcat) vs 3.8 dance (35mcat), do you still think course load means nothing?

 

[ProudMD]

No I didn't mis that. Did you mis the part where I said that the importance placed on course load/degree of difficulty is a verbatim statement from the associate dean of a medical school?

You can call it N=1 and do with it what you want, but your above statement is a generalization and fails to take into account to nuances of the review process, especially those schools that truly embrace the idea of holistic review.

I like the way my premed advisor explains the process that med schools go through when they review transcripts. She calls it a "transcript autopsy". ADCOMs have seen enough applications to recognize and appreciate that some majors are significantly more difficult than others, especially when you increasing the credit count by 4.

I will concede that the greater the difference in GPA, the less course load/difficulty matters. If you move into the realm of 4.0 vs 3.4 then obviously course load is going to carry little significance in comparing these two candidates. But on the flip side, a comparison of 3.6 vs 3.8 makes for a very interesting discussion.

If the question were 3.6 engineer (35mcat) vs 3.8 dance (35mcat), do you still think course load means nothing?

I never said course load means nothing, but in the above example, the 3.8 dancer will still win out quite comfortably.

As for the statement from the associate dean, course load/rigor will likely only matter if two applicants have nearly identical stats. Course load does matter, but it is probably the least important thing in the process, well behind GPA and MCAT.

 

[ski89]

I never said course load means nothing, but in the above example, the 3.8 dancer will still win out quite comfortably.

As for the statement from the associate dean, course load/rigor will likely only matter if two applicants have nearly identical stats. Course load does matter, but it is probably the least important thing in the process, well behind GPA and MCAT.

I'm curious with what authority you are speaking with? "will still win out quite comfortably", why then do adcoms even need transcripts? Why doesn't amcas just verify your GPA (perhaps also inquire about any Ws or Fs) and call it a day.

And even better, "...will likely only matter if two applicants have nearly identical stats". Wrong again, the applicants course load/degree of difficulty is an independent criteria that this school uses to generate a score for each applicant.

#enjoyingthedebate #bordomwaitingforanacceptance

 

[ProudMD]

I'm curious with what authority you are speaking with? "will still win out quite comfortably", why then do adcoms even need transcripts? Why doesn't amcas just verify your GPA (perhaps also inquire about any Ws or Fs) and call it a day.

And even better, "...will likely only matter if two applicants have nearly identical stats". Wrong again, the applicants course load/degree of difficulty is an independent criteria that this school uses to generate a score for each applicant.

#enjoyingthedebate #bordomwaitingformyanacceptance

I am a bit confused.

AMCAS is supposed to verify your GPA based on your transcript so that you aren't lying about your grades. And adcoms do look at your course load - all that information is right on your AMCAS application. Your entire transcript is listed verbatim on your AMCAS, so adcoms have all that information.

And I don't have any authority. But if I get to pick an application as my own, I would pick the 3.8/35 dancer over the 3.6/35 engineer in a heartbeat. And I believe the vast majority of people will make the same decision and pick the dancer.

And finally, the difference between a 3.6 and a 3.8 is quite significant.

 

[ski89]

I am a bit confused.

AMCAS is supposed to verify your GPA based on your transcript so that you aren't lying about your grades. And adcoms do look at your course load - all that information is right on your AMCAS application. Your entire transcript is listed verbatim on your AMCAS, so adcoms have all that information.

And I don't have any authority. But if I get to pick an application as my own, I would pick the 3.8/35 dancer over the 3.6/35 engineer in a heartbeat. And I believe the vast majority of people will make the same decision and pick the dancer.

And finally, the difference between a 3.6 and a 3.8 is quite significant.

Exactly, AMCAS verifies your transcripts and essentially forwards them to the medical schools who are interested in both your overall GPA and your course load/major/number of upper division courses etc.. Your GPA is not a static number, it has context in terms of what courses you took, when you took them, how many you took at a time, etc - it matters.

Yes, most of the time a 3.8 is significantly different and superior to a 3.6 - this can be most clearly seen in the applicant/acceptance table posted on the AAMC. But when it comes time to score an applicant and I am asked who is more academically qualified/prepared to take on the challenges of medical school, you can bet that ADCOMs will rank a student that has proven ability to take on a significantly more difficult course load and achieve a GPA that is only a hand full of letter grades below a student that takes a relatively easy course load.

Which of these students, based on their academic record alone, would you rate higher in terms of aptitude for med school. I think it's student A easy.

Student A: GPA 3.65, credits 17
Fluid mechanics (3) - B
Principles of Chemical engineering (3) - B
Biochemistry (3) - A
English (3) - A
Organic Chemistry + lab (5) - A

Student B: GPA 3.82, credits 13
Modern Dance (3) - A-
Dance performance (2) - A
English (3) - A
Organic chemistry + lab (5) - A-