COVID-19 Shutting Down Schools?

[libertyyne]

Western countries are doing as well as they can with what's been handed to them.

We didn't ask for this battle. If China's markets didn't resemble scenes in Upton Sinclair novels, we probably would have never heard of Sars-CoV-2.

thats an easy scapegoat. But this assumes that zoonotic transmission is some novel concept that hasnt happened before, or is not possible in the western world.

We are acting like a nation that thought pandemics were not possible and had no plan in place to tackle one if should arise. Countries like South korea, and singapore were much better equipped and ready to handle something of this nature because they lived through SARs.

Our public health infrastructure has been underfunded. We had months before it actually having to deal with it, We still cant even test everyone we need to in a timely fashion.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Espressso]

thats an easy scapegoat. But this assumes that zoonotic transmission is some novel concept that hasnt happened before, or is not possible in the western world.

We are acting like a nation that thought pandemics were not possible and had no plan in place to tackle one if should arise. Countries like South korea, and singapore were much better equipped and ready to handle something of this nature because they lived through SARs.

Our public health infrastructure has been underfunded. We had months before it actually having to deal with it, We still cant even test everyone we need to in a timely fashion.

Not to mention, there is still no coordinated, federal response. Nor even a geopolitical response. Where is the G20? The EU is scrambled and on their own. Individual states here are left to make their own decisions. The press conference just now shared very little substantial information. Azar can't even comment how many ventilators we have in stock lol. We've botched it. Healthcare workers are doing godly acts right now in WA, NY, NJ, CA. But my home state is currently reporting exponential growth of confirmed cases each day. And for more salt on the wound... the CDC still isn't reporting new confirmed cases on the weekend, as if SARS-CoV-2 takes the weekend off. It's a pathetic response thus far.

 

[radsisrad]

Disagree completely. First of all, no one asks for these battles. The battle came and we didn't do our job putting effort in early. The US has dropped the ball multiple times since mid January. And we continue to do so. The UK is following a similar path as us, and we're following Spain and Italy. Only time will tell but Western countries, specifically the US are not doing as well as we can.

Either every advanced country (that is, the countries that come up with virtually every single advancement in science and medicine) happens to be dropping the ball simultaneously or we have all just been given an impossible battle to fight, and these really are the best results that could be reasonably expected.

It's easy to lose track of this, but a lot of the productive discussions being had on the national level and among the medical community are actually Monday-morning quarterbacking. That's not to say it isn't important to figure out how to learn from what we did/didn't do, but let's at least recognize what we're doing here.

 

[libertyyne]

Either every advanced country (that is, the countries that come up with virtually every single advancement in science and medicine) happens to be dropping the ball simultaneously or we have all just been given an impossible battle to fight, and these really are the best results that could be reasonably expected.

It's easy to lose track of this, but a lot of the productive discussions being had on the national level and among the medical community are actually Monday-morning quarterbacking. That's not to say it isn't important to figure out how to learn from what we did/didn't do, but let's at least recognize what we're doing here.

We literally have been unable to ramp up testing to the levels that any other industrialized country has been able to do.
There are people talking about 5 day turnaround times on tests in certain places in california.
We had the opportunity to get WHO testing kits yet we were unable to do so.
Singapore, Hongkong, and Southkorea have somehow had their **** together despite not being the biggest contributors to "advancement in science and medicine" . Do you know who even talks like that? failing empires.

The first step in recognizing that there is a problem is acknowledging there is a problem. I hope this will not turn into a worst case senario, but frankly when 2 million people die because of " best results" that is not something that should be reasonable expected. and your bar of results need to re-evaluated.

 

[radsisrad]

thats an easy scapegoat. But this assumes that zoonotic transmission is some novel concept that hasnt happened before, or is not possible in the western world.

To the contrary, the world is quite aware of the existence of zoonotic transmission. See: MERS and SARS. Both very recent zoonotic epidemics. China has refused to adopt first-world hygienic practices, and this is the result.

And of course it is a possible phenomenon in the Western world; fortunately, however, our risk is somewhat mitigated by not having open-air markets with bat and pangolin carcasses hanging about.

We are acting like a nation that thought pandemics were not possible and had no plan in place to tackle one if should arise. Countries like South korea, and singapore were much better equipped and ready to handle something of this nature because they lived through SARs.

Our public health infrastructure has been underfunded. We had months before it actually having to deal with it, We still cant even test everyone we need to in a timely fashion.

While we were (and are) not exactly prepared, there hasn't been a very clear answer as to what the best possible solution is. As I posted on one of the threads about this in the Anesthesiology forum, there is a real economic debate to be had as to how to balance economic concerns with medical ones. If the global economy is ground to a halt, there could actually be more resultant deaths than there would be if this were left unchecked.

 

[radsisrad]

We literally have been unable to ramp up testing to the levels that any other industrialized country has been able to do.
There are people talking about 5 day turnaround times on tests in certain places in california.
We had the opportunity to get WHO testing kits yet we were unable to do so.
Singapore, Hongkong, and Southkorea have somehow had their **** together despite not being the biggest contributors to "advancement in science and medicine" . Do you know who even talks like that? failing empires.

The first step in recognizing that there is a problem is acknowledging there is a problem. I hope this will not turn into a worst case senario, but frankly when 2 million people die because of " best results" that is not something that should be reasonable expected. and your bar of results need to re-evaluated.

I'm in complete agreement with you on the bolded text. I have no idea what happened with the CDC's refusal of the WHO's tests; an investigation will be very important once things calm down a bit.

 

[Melchizedek]

CAN we please not de-rail this thread into an SPF topic? This is about discussing educational impacts of COVID-19 Thank you.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Yes, back on topic folks. Educational impacts. Take the other discussions to other threads.

 

[Medic741]

Just pulled from rotations, M3 DO in the Midwest after emailing admin that we didn’t have any N95 available for students

 

[radsisrad]

I would favor pulling med students from clinical rotations at this time.

There is a very real danger for doctors interfacing with patients for the next couple of months at least. Infection with Sars-CoV-2 can be deadly, even for young, healthy people. And med students didn't sign up for this. Residents, yes. Students, no.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I suspect we will get pulled from rotations today. Multiple residents and attendings at the clinic I'm at have said as much without using those exact words.

 

[Neopolymath]

I think the moderation on SDN is now very overly sensitive. We’ll leave it at that.

They have been trying to change their image over the past two years or so but don't understand that their value lies in what they are trying to change.

Edit: we have been pulled out for 2 weeks. So scared of my school trying to delay graduation etc.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Edit: we have been pulled out for 2 weeks. So scared of my school trying to delay graduation etc.

I'm sitting here dreaming about all the MD schools I keep hearing about that have moved to online didactics for rotations to not have a disruption in graduation. I am SO EXCITED to be told by my school that I can't go on auditions because I need to do my 3 required rural rotations during those months if I want to graduate on time.

 

[libertyyne]

I'm sitting here dreaming about all the MD schools I keep hearing about that have moved to online didactics for rotations to not have a disruption in graduation. I am SO EXCITED to be told by my school that I can't go on auditions because I need to do my 3 required rural rotations during those months if I want to graduate on time.

On the flip side I am not looking forward to the garbage online aquafier modules that I am probably going to have to do to meet those online requirements.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I'm sitting here dreaming about all the MD schools I keep hearing about that have moved to online didactics for rotations to not have a disruption in graduation. I am SO EXCITED to be told by my school that I can't go on auditions because I need to do my 3 required rural rotations during those months if I want to graduate on time.

You have 3 required rural rotations? Yikes.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Yeah our Dean sent us an email saying there was an emergency nationwide meeting between deans and all campuses are being closed and 3rd/4th years are being pulled from rotations right now

 

[Neopolymath]

On the flip side I am not looking forward to the garbage online aquafier modules that I am probably going to have to do to meet those online requirements.

Aquifer is a form of torture.

 

[libertyyne]

Yeah our Dean sent us an email saying there was an emergency nationwide meeting between deans and all campuses are being closed and 3rd/4th years are being pulled from rotations right now

is this an MD school or DO or both?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You have 3 required rural rotations? Yikes.

Yeah bro, it's very rough. We also have mandatory "Primary Care Electives." TWO of them. I get that it's our mission, but it is VERY excessive IMO. At some point you compromise having a solid medicine knowledge base when you skip out on basically all specialty rotations to do rural outpatient clinic ones.

 

[libertyyne]

Yeah bro, it's very rough. We also have mandatory "Primary Care Electives." TWO of them. I get that it's our mission, but it is VERY excessive IMO. At some point you compromise having a solid medicine knowledge base when you skip out on basically all specialty rotations to do rural outpatient clinic ones.

mad respect to you folks still matching competitive specialties with that kind of handicap.

 

[Mass Effect]

Western countries are doing as well as they can with what's been handed to them.

\

LOL that's hilarious. Seriously.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

is this an MD school or DO or both?

We are DO, but he said it was combined with both.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

mad respect to you folks still matching competitive specialties with that kind of handicap.

It definitely weeds out the people who aren't serious about it, that's for sure.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

We are DO, but he said it was combined with both. View attachment 298689

This is our only hope. That there is a coordinated effort made implementing system wide changes to med ed so we can all graduate on time.

 

[Nucleophile1]

We are DO, but he said it was combined with both. View attachment 298689

Months? Yikes, good luck to those students who haven't picked a specialty yet or who are planning to do an AI and/or away in a core specialty they haven't rotated through yet.

 

[Giovanotto]

Just pulled from rotations, M3 DO in the Midwest after emailing admin that we didn’t have any N95 available for students

lol N95? I don't even have access to a regular face mask. Never mind eye wear protection.

 

[kb1900]

school canceled rotations through june 26th :[

 

[sunshinefl]

school canceled rotations through june 26th :[

That’s a long time!!!

 

[libertyyne]

school canceled rotations through june 26th :[

Wow, are they going to do something online, or will it cut out on elective and away time ?

 

[Espressso]

I'll be honest, I'm quite surprised with my school's response. With the exception of surgical rotations (GS, OB), we've been allowed to continue to rotate as long as the attending/preceptor is okay with it. I've heard of multiple students at my school being told to stay home for the time being, even though they are not on surgical rotations. I'm sure this is all subject to change, as we're most definitely in uncharted territory here.

This might also be a result of being in a state that is extremely rural relative to other schools in urban areas.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'll be honest, I'm quite surprised with my school's response. With the exception of surgical rotations (GS, OB), we've been allowed to continue to rotate as long as the attending/preceptor is okay with it. I've heard of multiple students at my school being told to stay home for the time being, even though they are not on surgical rotations. I'm sure this is all subject to change, as we're most definitely in uncharted territory here.

This might also be a result of being in a state that is extremely rural relative to other schools in urban areas.

My school is the same. Part of me kinda thinks they are just in denial at this point.

 

[kb1900]

Wow, are they going to do something online, or will it cut out on elective and away time ?

communication is still unclear. most students are sticking around but some are flying home immediately and not planning to come back until July at the earliest.

All they’ve said is that we will get elective credit for being part of the medical student workforce should that come to fruition and they will be lenient on online coursera type “electives” for credit if needed.

As far as I can tell our required rotations are probably still gonna mess with our 4th year schedules unless LCME/ACGME comes out with something

 

[wholeheartedly]

As health care workers prepare for COVID-19, medical students pitch in on the home front

The University of Minnesota medical students may be too early in their education to have the kind of clinical experience needed to treat patients, but they’re stepping up to help doctors and nurses with everything from babysitting to grocery shopping.

www.mprnews.org

 

[Espressso]

My school is the same. Part of me kinda thinks they are just in denial at this point.

Yeah, denial or they just don't care. I think this would be a perfect time to be a fourth year student right now. Match and then get most of the remaining rotations cancelled. Hello extended vacation.

 

[Oedipa Maas]

Yeah, denial or they just don't care. I think this would be a perfect time to be a fourth year student right now. Match and then get most of the remaining rotations cancelled. Hello extended vacation.

Minus the part where my school is not cancelling rotations and I get to walk past a crowded lobby of coughing people daily to get to my radiology rotation which to be fair, I have learned a lot from, but am contributing nothing to. Also minus the part of figuring out a potential cross country move during a pandemic. But that's Friday's problem!

 

[crazyboi1993]

For current 4th years, is it possible, that they will start residency earlier than normal due to this COVID situation?

 

[Mass Effect]

For current 4th years, is it possible, that they will start residency earlier than normal due to this COVID situation?

Depends on hospital credentialing, training licenses, etc. They'd need to rush all that stuff and given you've never had a medical license, it's more difficult to rush it. Those who already have a state license in one state (such as someone who's returning to residency or left one residency for another) would have an easier time, even if switching states. But first time licensees take longer due to vetting process.

 

[libertyyne]

Italy rushes new doctors into service as coronavirus deaths rise above 2,500

Italy will rush 10,000 student doctors into service, scrapping their final exams, in an effort to help the struggling health service cope with the coronavirus which claimed another 345 lives.

mobile.reuters.com

The way our containment has been going we are right in line to have similar stresses placed on our healthcare system.

 

[esob]

School is still making us come in for our exams as of today. I'm anxious about the summer b/c I landed essentially the perfect preceptorship and now it looks like things are up in the air

 

[Giovanotto]

Italy rushes new doctors into service as coronavirus deaths rise above 2,500

Italy will rush 10,000 student doctors into service, scrapping their final exams, in an effort to help the struggling health service cope with the coronavirus which claimed another 345 lives.

mobile.reuters.com

The way our containment has been going we are right in line to have similar stresses placed on our healthcare system.

But libertynne, we aren't interns yet, we don't have a license, and can't put in orders. Whatever will we do? We basically don't know anything. Looks like we gotta go ahead and recruit nursing students to help out instead. I hear they're really good and hands on. Heck, I bet there is some smug poster on here arguing RT students should prob be recruited in lieu of medical students.

 

[longhaul3]

For current 4th years, is it possible, that they will start residency earlier than normal due to this COVID situation?

I wouldn't be surprised if some people who match at their home programs, especially in medicine, might be graduated and onboarded early. There's no precedent here so I would say pretty much everything is on the table.

 

[Espressso]

I wouldn't be surprised if some people who match at their home programs, especially in medicine, might be graduated and onboarded early. There's no precedent here so I would say pretty much everything is on the table.

This is what I've been telling people. Though many classmates around me continue to downplay the situation. I came across this article today:

Italy rushes new doctors into service as coronavirus deaths rise above 2,500

Italy will rush 10,000 student doctors into service, scrapping their final exams, in an effort to help the struggling health service cope with the coronavirus which claimed another 345 lives.

www.reuters.com

What an incredible, and wild time to be alive.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

School just pulled us to online only until April 26th at the earliest. I have no idea how we're going to make up all of the labs/SPs/etc we're going to miss and still have a dedicated. I am seriously getting concerned now.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

School just pulled us to online only until April 26th at the earliest. I have no idea how we're going to make up all of the labs/SPs/etc we're going to miss and still have a dedicated. I am seriously getting concerned now.

Our school put us online until April 20. They just made the labs independent study, and our small group stuff is on google hangouts. They haven’t said how we’re going to do our SP session this block.

 

[sparkysparkyboomman]

Wow late April for online instruction?

We’re going online til the 6th. Wonder if that’ll be extended

 

[hallowmann]

This is what I've been telling people. Though many classmates around me continue to downplay the situation. I came across this article today:

Italy rushes new doctors into service as coronavirus deaths rise above 2,500

Italy will rush 10,000 student doctors into service, scrapping their final exams, in an effort to help the struggling health service cope with the coronavirus which claimed another 345 lives.

www.reuters.com

What an incredible, and wild time to be alive.

Word from a med student here is that they reduced elective time requirements for graduation. He basically said he could leave today and he'd be OK to graduate.... And then later today email from our departments clinical rotation coordinator is that all medical student rotations have been suspended until further notice.

The preclinical students have offered to run errands, babysit, etc. for staff who need them with all the schools closing and us still working.

This stuff is pretty unprecedented. What we're going to likely see is 4th yrs graduate early and be hired to screen if needed, 1st and 2nd years doing all online classes for the time being and likely delaying steps and rotations, and 3rd years being stuck in some kind of limbo. I feel for you guys right now. Really a weird time to be in healthcare.

The FM board just gave word to all the 3rd yr FM residents that they are postponing the board exam that's scheduled for April, and may push everyone to the Nov date if they can't reschedule.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Wow late April for online instruction?

We’re going online til the 6th. Wonder if that’ll be extended

We were till April 1st at first and now they pushed it even further.

1st and 2nd years doing all online classes for the time being and likely delaying steps and rotations

This would seriously suck. Do you really see this being the case?

 

[hallowmann]

We were till April 1st at first and now they pushed it even further.

This would seriously suck. Do you really see this being the case?

At this point, I see this easily going to June, if not Sept.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

At this point, I see this easily going to June, if not Sept.

I don't know if I can handle studying for Step until September

 

[ohmanwaddup]

We were till April 1st at first and now they pushed it even further.

This would seriously suck. Do you really see this being the case?

It would suck but I wouldn't be opposed to another month of dedicated lol