Covid and dentistry business

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Have dentists suffered alot of income due to covid

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 65.2%

  • No

    Votes: 8 34.8%
  • Total voters
    23
PikminOC

PikminOC

MD Attending Physician
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How has covid affected dentists businesses? Some offices near me were closed for two months. Not sure if they paid their staff during this time.

Are dentists hurting financially?
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So far, no problem. I don't know what will happen next year.... how long this pandemic will last?.....vaccine effectiveness in fighting the Covid?.... the economy? For this year, I got the PPP loan and some stimuluds aid from the federal government. Therefore, I don't have to cut my F/T employees' hours. I did initially (during March and April) but I paid them overtime hours as soon as I received the PPP loan. Things like gloves, masks, surface disinfectant solution are in short supply and are more expensive than before the Covid time but we've managed them ok.
 
Last I heard, the average office is down 28% in collections this year. Our clinic's productivity is down 30%. With CDC recommendations, we're likely looking at not returning to pre-covid productivity because it restricts our schedule (can't be as flexible as a small private office).
 
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Only those who are afraid of opening up are the ones suffering in my area. Otherwise, it's the end of the year boom for practices that are open this time around and it's been a boom this year even with that stupid shutdown in April.

Here is how our schedule went down today:

1219.jpg

A fair number of cancellations due to Christmas shopping, but still OK with a 16k day. Most of these PPE/disinfectant shortages seem like an artificially created shortage since I was able to get pallets of gloves/PPE and 55 gallon drums of disinfectant through secondary non-dental markets.
 
TanMan said:
Only those who are afraid of opening up are the ones suffering in my area. Otherwise, it's the end of the year boom for practices that are open this time around and it's been a boom this year even with that stupid shutdown in April.

Here is how our schedule went down today:

View attachment 325470

A fair number of cancellations due to Christmas shopping, but still OK with a 16k day. Most of these PPE/disinfectant shortages seem like an artificially created shortage since I was able to get pallets of gloves/PPE and 55 gallon drums of disinfectant through secondary non-dental markets.
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idk if you meant it like that but your screenshot is blurred out. curious what procedure breakdown you are doing for 16k daily production?
 
PerioDont said:
idk if you meant it like that but your screenshot is blurred out. curious what procedure breakdown you are doing for 16k daily production?
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Blurred for HIPAA. Procedure mix is RCTBUCrns, Individual crowns, lots of small procedures (few fills in those 30 min slots in the beginning, a recementation or two somewhere in there), hygiene, ext+grafts, and 3rds are the primary mix. No implants or bridges today, but they come in waves. A few days ago, I think we had 20+ units in crown and bridgework throughout the day.
 
Yes my local orthodontist is complaining about being closed two months due to our strict state. But I don't see him working even five days a week now, evenings, or weekends so not sure why he's complaining
 
Hold on, you guys are frigging me out, I’m just about to close on a business and other then the months that it was closed back March - may, production is up!? I’ve been hearing the same from many other practices.
 
periopocket said:
Hold on, you guys are frigging me out, I’m just about to close on a business and other then the months that it was closed back March - may, production is up!? I’ve been hearing the same from many other practices.
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I don't think you should worry if other practices around have increased their production. We're up at least 30% YTD and some practices in my area are also kicking butt.
 
TikiTorches said:
How has covid affected dentists businesses? Some offices near me were closed for two months. Not sure if they paid their staff during this time.

Are dentists hurting financially?
Click to expand...
Fully open but patient cancellation has been through the roof
 
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This is not as bad as the 2008 recession. The housing market remains strong and people still live in their houses. Many unemployed people got the weekly $600 checks. And now with the new $900 billion stimulus bill, which is expected to pass, they continue to get the $300 checks every week. Small businesses got the PPP loans. Doctors and dentists got the HHS stimulus money. Hopefully, the new vaccines will end this pandemic and things will return to normal. I feel so fortunate to live in the greatest country in the world.
 
charlestweed said:
This is not as bad as the 2008 recession. The housing market remains strong and people still live in their houses. Many unemployed people got the weekly $600 checks. And now with the new $900 billion stimulus bill, which is expected to pass, they continue to get the $300 checks every week. Small businesses got the PPP loans. Doctors and dentists got the HHS stimulus money. Hopefully, the new vaccines will end this pandemic and things will return to normal. I feel so fortunate to live in the greatest country in the world.
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God bless America and the freedoms we enjoy (in certain states). I'm glad not to live in the EU/UK/AUS/NZ/etc. with their incessant lockdowns.
 
The reality is as the final numbers for 2020 for my practice are about to close out, with the exception of the roughly 2 months between Mid March and Mid May when my practice didn't have any hygienists working, and my production from seeing essentially only emergency patients was down about 50-60% from a normal month, the other 10 months of the year have been either "normal" or above average.

So while yes, production for the year will be down when compared to 2019's production by probably 18% or so as it looks right now and looking at what's in the schedule the next week or so, overall, all things considered, it wasn't too bad, and certainly could of been far worse.

Looking ahead, myself, my business partner, our hygienists, assistants and staff are all scheduled to get our COVID vaccines in the next 3 weeks, and that on some level will likely help reduce some of the underlying anxiety that we all have felt the last 9 months or so.

Bring on 2021, who knows what it will bring?? Just hoping that it's less BIG surprises than 2020 threw at us!
 
TanMan said:
Are you guys overbooking to compensate for forecasted cancellations?
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yes 100%, the staff are always worried in the morning huddles when they look at the schedule but people are cancelling so much so it's doable. what are you guys doing?
 
TanMan said:
Are you guys overbooking to compensate for forecasted cancellations?
Click to expand...


My practice has been a bit weird on that, where we have some days, and even weeks, where the short term cancellation rate once our automated reminders go out 48hrs ahead of the appt time is basically zero, and then other days where it may be approaching 1/3rd cancellations, and weeks where it's probably close to 20%. Fortunately my staff has done a very good job at handling those cancellations the vast majority of the time.


The same day dreaded no-shows have as always been weighted towards the medicaid patients that we see, and we generally double book against them from day 1.

Heck, one of the weird ones was last week when the snowstorm rolled through the Northeast (we got about a foot at my office) due to the timing of the storm where it was projected to dump the majority of the snow from about 6AM through early afternoon (and that held true), we cancelled the day out, ahead of time out of travel safety, and when my front desk staff called to notify patients, over 75% of them said that they'd come in if we changed out mind about the storm and/or decided to open up later in the day.

20+ years into this, I have come to accept that the reality is that no matter how well you try and plan out a schedule, the reality is that sometimes it just doesn't work out that way, and that you can't control the actions of other people (your patients) at times, and that's just life. The reality is that these days, if that occasional no show happens (as did to me this morning for an hour) I don't stress about it, and just try and enjoy an added few minutes in my day to relax a little. Probably took me about 10-15 years of practice to be able to be truly comfortable with those occasional times (as long as they're just that, OCCASIONAL times 😉 )
 
DrJeff said:
My practice has been a bit weird on that, where we have some days, and even weeks, where the short term cancellation rate once our automated reminders go out 48hrs ahead of the appt time is basically zero, and then other days where it may be approaching 1/3rd cancellations, and weeks where it's probably close to 20%. Fortunately my staff has done a very good job at handling those cancellations the vast majority of the time.


The same day dreaded no-shows have as always been weighted towards the medicaid patients that we see, and we generally double book against them from day 1.

Heck, one of the weird ones was last week when the snowstorm rolled through the Northeast (we got about a foot at my office) due to the timing of the storm where it was projected to dump the majority of the snow from about 6AM through early afternoon (and that held true), we cancelled the day out, ahead of time out of travel safety, and when my front desk staff called to notify patients, over 75% of them said that they'd come in if we changed out mind about the storm and/or decided to open up later in the day.

20+ years into this, I have come to accept that the reality is that no matter how well you try and plan out a schedule, the reality is that sometimes it just doesn't work out that way, and that you can't control the actions of other people (your patients) at times, and that's just life. The reality is that these days, if that occasional no show happens (as did to me this morning for an hour) I don't stress about it, and just try and enjoy an added few minutes in my day to relax a little. Probably took me about 10-15 years of practice to be able to be truly comfortable with those occasional times (as long as they're just that, OCCASIONAL times 😉 )
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some well deserved SDN browsing time... 😉
 
Rambunctious said:
yes 100%, the staff are always worried in the morning huddles when they look at the schedule but people are cancelling so much so it's doable. what are you guys doing?
Click to expand...

So far, we have 120-140 patient-hours available per day, so we try to fit in that many patient-hours as soon as we can, then we call to confirm the day before. During the holiday season, we warn them that if they don't show up to their appointment, they will not be able to get another appointment until after new years, and most other dentists are closed on the last week of December. That seems to get their fire going. Also, mass advertising seems to fill our slots very well and if we do go beyond the 120-140 patient-hours/day, then we do have a alternate waitlist as well for those that want to go in a specific or earliest day available, but only if we have no slots available and if anyone doesn't show up to their appointment, that slot is given to waitlist or walkins. Now, if we still have available patient-hours at the end of every hour, then we supplement that with same day treatments.
 
TanMan said:
So far, we have 120-140 patient-hours available per day, so we try to fit in that many patient-hours as soon as we can, then we call to confirm the day before. During the holiday season, we warn them that if they don't show up to their appointment, they will not be able to get another appointment until after new years, and most other dentists are closed on the last week of December. That seems to get their fire going. Also, mass advertising seems to fill our slots very well and if we do go beyond the 120-140 patient-hours/day, then we do have a alternate waitlist as well for those that want to go in a specific or earliest day available, but only if we have no slots available and if anyone doesn't show up to their appointment, that slot is given to waitlist or walkins. Now, if we still have available patient-hours at the end of every hour, then we supplement that with same day treatments.
Click to expand...
You must be in a large group practice. That is a lot of patient hours!
 
TikiTorches said:
How has covid affected dentists businesses? Some offices near me were closed for two months. Not sure if they paid their staff during this time.

Are dentists hurting financially?
Click to expand...

2020 has been a year to REMEMBER for many dentists, or a year to FORGET for others.

We can’t group every practice into one basket. A lot of states had different lockdown periods, covid guidelines, etc.

The government definitely stepped up helping qualified dentists with a lot of stimulus to recoup their lost revenue. In the form of PPP loans, state and local grants, etc.

Personally, this was a weird year for my offices. I will finish with 20% drop this year compared to 2019. However, the stimulus money my practices received will make 2020 top numbers about 40% higher compared to 2019. I know. We worked less and produced less, but we made a lot of money - thanks to Uncle Sam!.

The stimulus numbers were $310k in mortgage/rent payments from SBA, $240k in 1st PPP, $160k in HHS grants, $40k in state and local grants, $60k in minority and PPE grants, and roughly $20k from Dental insurances (delta dental grants, etc). So about $850k in stimulus that I didn’t come to work for. Crazy, right?? Some offices got more (in the million+ range), but majority got less. It really paid to be a stimulus qualified owner dentist in 2020. Many owner dentists are not complaining at all. Associates obviously got the short end of the stick.... because the big money were for small businesses.

Crazy part!... more stimulus is coming in 2021. Although I’m very grateful for all this printed money, its all debt and will hurt our economy in the future. We are mortgaging the future generations future.

Also, most dentists who had big retirement accounts made a lot of money past few months through the roaring stock market. All round, 2020 has been the best financial year - if you were on the right side of the stimulus money.
 
Cold Front said:
2020 has been a year to REMEMBER for many dentists, or a year to FORGET for others.

We can’t group every practice into one basket. A lot of states had different lockdown periods, covid guidelines, etc.

The government definitely stepped up helping qualified dentists with a lot of stimulus to recoup their lost revenue. In the form of PPP loans, state and local grants, etc.

Personally, this was a weird year for my offices. I will finish with 20% drop this year compared to 2019. However, the stimulus money my practices received will make 2020 top numbers about 40% higher compared to 2019. I know. We worked less and produced less, but we made a lot of money - thanks to Uncle Sam!.

The stimulus numbers were $310k in mortgage/rent payments from SBA, $240k in 1st PPP, $160k in HHS grants, $40k in state and local grants, $60k in minority and PPE grants, and roughly $20k from Dental insurances (delta dental grants, etc). So about $850k in stimulus that I didn’t come to work for. Crazy, right?? Some offices got more (in the million+ range), but majority got less. It really paid to be an owner qualified dentist for these stimulus money.

Crazy part!... more stimulus is coming in 2021. Although I’m very grateful for all this printed money, its all debt and will hurt our economy in the future. We are mortgaging the future generations future.

Also, most dentists who had big retirement accounts made a lot of money past few months through the roaring stock market. All round, 2020 has been the best financial year - if you were on the right side of the stimulus money.
Click to expand...
I run a physician business and I didnt want any stimulus money.
 
Cold Front said:
Good for you. Majority of businesses took it. Many publicly traded companies who didn’t need the money (even Harvard, LA Lakers, the President’s family’s businesses, you name it) took the PPP loans.
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Im a small solo practice. Cant deal with all the paperwork
 
TikiTorches said:
Im a small solo practice. Cant deal with all the paperwork
Click to expand...

There was a lot of down time during the lockdown. The paperwork was actually a good way to keep me distracted. The accountant did half the work, the bank did the other half... and I was mostly doing DocuSign reviews.

Covid changed the world. Inflation, consolidation of businesses and higher taxes are coming for all of us in the foreseeable future.
 
Business was down, but this too shall pass. Dentistry is changing and getting more saturated, but there is still plenty of money in those willing to work hard.
 
Cold Front said:
2020 has been a year to REMEMBER for many dentists, or a year to FORGET for others.

We can’t group every practice into one basket. A lot of states had different lockdown periods, covid guidelines, etc.

The government definitely stepped up helping qualified dentists with a lot of stimulus to recoup their lost revenue. In the form of PPP loans, state and local grants, etc.

Personally, this was a weird year for my offices. I will finish with 20% drop this year compared to 2019. However, the stimulus money my practices received will make 2020 top numbers about 40% higher compared to 2019. I know. We worked less and produced less, but we made a lot of money - thanks to Uncle Sam!.

The stimulus numbers were $310k in mortgage/rent payments from SBA, $240k in 1st PPP, $160k in HHS grants, $40k in state and local grants, $60k in minority and PPE grants, and roughly $20k from Dental insurances (delta dental grants, etc). So about $850k in stimulus that I didn’t come to work for. Crazy, right?? Some offices got more (in the million+ range), but majority got less. It really paid to be a stimulus qualified owner dentist in 2020. Many owner dentists are not complaining at all. Associates obviously got the short end of the stick.... because the big money were for small businesses.

Crazy part!... more stimulus is coming in 2021. Although I’m very grateful for all this printed money, its all debt and will hurt our economy in the future. We are mortgaging the future generations future.

Also, most dentists who had big retirement accounts made a lot of money past few months through the roaring stock market. All round, 2020 has been the best financial year - if you were on the right side of the stimulus money.
Click to expand...
I am "richer" during this Covid time. In addition to getting the HHS stimulus money, I have also saved a lot for not spending on things like vacations, shoppings, eating out 2-3 times a week etc. My wife cuts my hair….that’s $40/month in saving. My house cleaning lady quit due to fear of getting the Covid. The kids and I clean the house ourselves….that’s $300/month in saving right there…and it also teaches the kids to be more responsible. I don’t plan to spend these stimulus payments….I save them for paying taxes this coming April.
 
charlestweed said:
I am "richer" during this Covid time. In addition to getting the HHS stimulus money, I have also saved a lot for not spending on things like vacations, shoppings, eating out 2-3 times a week etc. My wife cuts my hair….that’s $40/month in saving. My house cleaning lady quit due to fear of getting the Covid. The kids and I clean the house ourselves….that’s $300/month in saving right there…and it also teaches the kids to be more responsible. I don’t plan to spend these stimulus payments….I save them for paying taxes this coming April.
Click to expand...

Yep. All of the above. Less expensive vacations, less night outs and trips to movie theaters. Owner dentists financially moved closer to retirement.

My wife and I purchased a winter home on the coast of a country on the Indian Ocean with our covid savings. That country’s currency dived against the USD during the pandemic. So we purchased it at about 70% less than what it was valued in USD at pre-covid - simply because their currency crashed. Locally, that house is still worth a lot, but dirt cheap for USD buyers. The vaccine will pull their currency back. Actually, it already started to.
 
I go to a small independent place where I get the best haircuts of my life for $8.00.
 
2TH MVR said:
Interesting thread direction.
I agree. A hair cut twice a month? I can go at least 6-8 weeks before needing a haircut.
Ole @charlestweed must like to look GOOD. Maybe he's using some form of viagra hair tonic.
Click to expand...
To maintain properly trimmed fade haircut, it has to be done every 2 weeks. Short cut also helps hide my gray hairs better. I am so happy that my wife can cut my hair. I had watched several youtube videos to learn how to cut my own hair myself but I wasn't brave enough to do it. It's very time consuming to get it done at the barber shop. Before the pandemic, I had to rush to the barber shop after work.....and then had to wait 20-30 minutes for my turn. My son is also happy because he hates going to the barbershop. His school has very strict haircut policies. I feel bad for the hair salon industry.
 
charlestweed said:
To maintain properly trimmed fade haircut, it has to be done every 2 weeks. Short cut also helps hide my gray hairs better. I am so happy that my wife can cut my hair. I had watched several youtube videos to learn how to cut my own hair myself but I wasn't brave enough to do it. It's very time consuming to get it done at the barber shop. Before the pandemic, I had to rush to the barber shop after work.....and then had to wait 20-30 minutes for my turn. My son is also happy because he hates going to the barbershop. His school has very strict haircut policies. I feel bad for the hair salon industry.
Click to expand...
High maintenance 🤣
 
charlestweed said:
To maintain properly trimmed fade haircut, it has to be done every 2 weeks. Short cut also helps hide my gray hairs better. I am so happy that my wife can cut my hair. I had watched several youtube videos to learn how to cut my own hair myself but I wasn't brave enough to do it. It's very time consuming to get it done at the barber shop. Before the pandemic, I had to rush to the barber shop after work.....and then had to wait 20-30 minutes for my turn. My son is also happy because he hates going to the barbershop. His school has very strict haircut policies. I feel bad for the hair salon industry.
Click to expand...

How long is each haircut (plus going to the hair stylist - that’s time and indirect cost). That’s like 1,000+ hours over a lifetime for a haircut. lol
 
Cold Front said:
How long is each haircut (plus going to the hair stylist - that’s time and indirect cost). That’s like 1,000+ hours over a lifetime for a haircut. lol
Click to expand...
Gotta keep up with appearances - cali ortho market is tough! haha. I love getting fades. I've actually not cut my hair since a little pre-pandemic, so now it is the longest it has ever been in my life.
 
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