Covid sucks

[Kr#36]

Wow this threads off topic.


I thought anatomy was useful for stuff like the inguinal canal in surgery. That’s about it. But even stuff like that could be well-demonstrated with a model. We have 3D printers that could probably do it better and be cheaper in the long run.

As an aside, I think what’s done to these cadavers is pretty messed up. They’re not all just kind donations while they were still alive either. A lot of these people died in their nursing homes and their families didn’t care to pay for a funeral/cremation. So the nursing home is allowed to donate (sell) the body to a medical school if the next of kin sign a paper. Of course next of kin will sign because otherwise the home comes after them for the cost of “disposal.”

Honestly I'd argue its one of the more useful things you could do (donating your body to a medical school). Ive always told my wife to either donate me or throw me in the trash, what do I care if I'm dead.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Burnermed]

Then you get to intern year and realize that environmental services could workup a a patient better than you.

I'm not sure how having online rotations is funny. Residency programs are actively discussing how they're going to handle how weak medical students are going to be.

It's a little funny....I just got my warzone high score! Idc b/c Med school's ruining my life. Residency can figure out how to deal with me. Not like they weren't planning on screwing me anyways.

 

[libertyyne]

A few other people told you how different a formalin-infused carcass feels from a living, bleeding human. I'll third that opinion.

The other thing that's totally different about anatomy and surgery is the goal. I strongly disliked anatomy lab. It felt so pointless, unnecessarily difficult, and even grotesque sometimes.

But I'm applying into a surgical subspecialty. Why? Because surgery is about solving a problem. Your understanding of anatomy is what allows you to solve that problem in the least harmful way possible. The anatomical knowledge in and of itself is not the goal. It's like the difference between a vacationer trying to name specific peaks from a gondola, and a mountaineer scaling the Matterhorn.

I do wish anatomy lab if existent would be driven in a problem solving or procedural approach, like perform a cholecystectomy , or perform a subdural evac, or do a roux-en-y or a whipple, appendectomy or laminectomy. Using the cadavers in such a fashion while forcing us to learn the anatomy and pittfalls of the most common procedures would have been much more enjoyable compared to digging through fat to find the brachal plexsus , or even thinking about those procedures while learning anatomy.

 

[Goro]

I do wish anatomy lab if existent would be driven in a problem solving or procedural approach, like perform a cholecystectomy , or perform a subdural evac, or do a roux-en-y or a whipple, appendectomy or laminectomy. Using the cadavers in such a fashion while forcing us to learn the anatomy and pittfalls of the most common procedures would have been much more enjoyable compared to digging through fat to find the brachal plexsus , or even thinking about those procedures while learning anatomy.

Ours does problems like that.

 

[Isoval]

Ours does problems like that.

I love that. Please tell TCOM.

 

[bigindian4891]

Three years later, those "what is this stringy bit of flesh" practicals were absolutely pointless. Like someone said, awesome that people donate their bodies to science and education, but a real waste of time, considering you had to go home and study the structures anyways.

 

[Cornfed101]

Three years later, those "what is this stringy bit of flesh" practicals were absolutely pointless. Like someone said, awesome that people donate their bodies to science and education, but a real waste of time, considering you had to go home and study the structures anyways.

We are still tested on the cadaver images, we just have to watch them. I think someone filmed with a potato from our first mock practical...

 

[Alkaidius]

Three years later, those "what is this stringy bit of flesh" practicals were absolutely pointless. Like someone said, awesome that people donate their bodies to science and education, but a real waste of time, considering you had to go home and study the structures anyways.

Getting purposefully tripped up by some obscure segment of a small vessel just so the anatomists could puff out their chests at their superiority over surgeons was my favorite part of lab lol.

/s

 

[sunshinefl]

Be that as it may, I still got some enjoyment out of anatomy and nowhere else in medical education do you get to poke at a previously living person. Surgeries are so specific and pinpoint these days, it's not the same. I still vividly remember the way the sartorius muscle of my cadaver moved all the way across the thigh. I dont even particularly like anatomy, but I truly believe it's a right of passage and a necessary experience of medical school. It gave me an appreciation for the body.

Or maybe I'm getting nostalgic.

Well yes at my school we did cadaver dissection, but that was not the “only place in Medical education to poke at a previously living person”. At my school we also did a weekend at the medical examiners office doing autopsy and learning how to fill out death certificates.

See I have to disagree......I think the MS-1s have the rawest deal of all. All the residency PDs know that things are F'd up right now and are willing to deal with us only having one SLOE/audition, and not having PE scores back until after graduation....so it's kind of an even playing field. The first years are really screwed...they're trying to learn all this crap online, which totally blows. They're not allowed to gather in study halls or coffee shops to group-study. IDK how TF they're going to learn OMM technique without hands-on lab. I think if I had to go through what they're going through I'd have scored considerably worse on exams and my step/level scores would have been crap.

No. Class of 2021 definitely has it the worst.

 

[hallowmann]

I'm not sure how having online rotations is funny. Residency programs are actively discussing how they're going to handle how weak medical students are going to be.

Who are you kidding? Interns are always weak, that's why they're interns. Most of the time they're learning in a completely new system, often new EMR, new departments, and they'll, for the most part, pick it up fast and adapt, because that's what they've had to do for the last 3-4 yrs. Clinical training is already so variable school to school that beyond basic knowledge, anything they didn't learn, will be learned in the first 3 months on service.

I'm honestly much more worried about how we're going to pick people who aren't douches when we only talk with them virtually for a couple hrs as opposed to seeing them interact in many different settings for a day.

 

[ciestar]

See I have to disagree......I think the MS-1s have the rawest deal of all. All the residency PDs know that things are F'd up right now and are willing to deal with us only having one SLOE/audition, and not having PE scores back until after graduation....so it's kind of an even playing field. The first years are really screwed...they're trying to learn all this crap online, which totally blows. They're not allowed to gather in study halls or coffee shops to group-study. IDK how TF they're going to learn OMM technique without hands-on lab. I think if I had to go through what they're going through I'd have scored considerably worse on exams and my step/level scores would have been crap.

No the MS3’s (now 4’s) got the biggest raw deal. The people at top MD schools got an advantage IMO though. (And it doesn’t hurt those with home programs, which most DOs and a few MDs dont have at all.)

Many schools have been doing almost entirely online curricula forever. It isn’t a new thing at all. (A majority of my class 260 never bothered going to class.)

I cant speak to OMM, but many people here seem to agree that not doing it in person won’t devastate anyone.

 

[Osteosaur]

See I have to disagree......I think the MS-1s have the rawest deal of all. All the residency PDs know that things are F'd up right now and are willing to deal with us only having one SLOE/audition, and not having PE scores back until after graduation....so it's kind of an even playing field. The first years are really screwed...they're trying to learn all this crap online, which totally blows. They're not allowed to gather in study halls or coffee shops to group-study. IDK how TF they're going to learn OMM technique without hands-on lab. I think if I had to go through what they're going through I'd have scored considerably worse on exams and my step/level scores would have been crap.

"Group study"? Do you take Step 1 as a group?

The only studying you should do is at home. Your only study partner should be the Anking.

You'll go to class the first two months thinking you're being disciplined and responsible, or respectful of faculty. Then you'll realize you're middle of the class, go home, and crank that lecture speed up to 2x and raise your test scores 10-15 points.

 

[Neopolymath]

"Group study"? Do you take Step 1 as a group?

The only studying you should do is at home. Your only study partner should be the Anking.

You'll go to class the first two months thinking you're being disciplined and responsible, or respectful of faculty. Then you'll realize you're middle of the class, go home, and crank that lecture speed up to 2x and raise your test scores 10-15 points.

and most importantly have hours and hours of free time extra from not doing middle school "learning"

 

[Chibucks15]

Literally the class of 21 was and is having trouble scheduling rotations at all, much less aways, and even just regular rotations in non-core specialties. Pretty hard to apply to things you’ve never even gotten to rotate in. My board exams got cancelled 4 separate times in 3 different states. Anybody saying that there is a class more screwed than us is laughably out of touch

 

[Neopolymath]

Literally the class of 21 was and is having trouble scheduling rotations at all, much less aways, and even just regular rotations in non-core specialties. Pretty hard to apply to things you’ve never even gotten to rotate in. My board exams got cancelled 4 separate times in 3 different states. Anybody saying that there is a class more screwed than us is laughably out of touch

I pulled eye muscles reading that dude's post. WTF. I couldn't believe it. We are out here with unexaggerated, legitimate career altering conditions BUT THINK OF THE M1s WHO CAN'T STUDY IN THE LIBRARY?!!

 

[Chibucks15]

I pulled eye muscles reading that dude's post. WTF. I couldn't believe it. We are out here with unexaggerated, legitimate career altering conditions BUT THINK OF THE M1s WHO CAN'T STUDY IN THE LIBRARY?!!

There was a point in which I was reconsidering entire specialty choices because I was unable to get a rotation set up in neuro. It was terrifying haha

 

[Ho0v-man]

There was a point in which I was reconsidering entire specialty choices because I was unable to get a rotation set up in neuro. It was terrifying haha

I wanted to check out a couple more fields before I pulled the trigger but I just won’t get to do that. I feel ya. Class of 21 is getting super screwed.

Although I can’t imagine the anguish of having step 1 rescheduled multiple times resulting in perpetual dedicated *shudders*

 

[Chibucks15]

I wanted to check out a couple more fields before I pulled the trigger but I just won’t get to do that. I feel ya. Class of 21 is getting super screwed.

Although I can’t imagine the anguish of having step 1 rescheduled multiple times resulting in perpetual dedicated *shudders*

I mean that happened to us (at least me) for Step 2. I burnt out hardcore just punting the deadline down the road

 

[Retro.viridae]

yeah I feel bad for my professors. Our first lecture the professor muted everyone without the option for us to unmute and he couldn’t see the chat so we were blowing him up with questions but he just plowed on... maybe embryo wasn’t the best subject to start with haha

Haha you're at my school? Hope you're ready for that exam on Friday.

 

[Cornfed101]

Haha you're at my school? Hope you're ready for that exam on Friday.

uh I'm close I think

 

[Dr. Daliah]

I agree with all the above. Anatomy was hell but COVID keeping y'all from grinding through school side by side with others and working with your hands is a part of your "medical school experience" you can't replace virtually. And having worked so hard to get to where you are only to do Zoom learning is anticlimactic to say the least. Hang in there and don't worry about not getting enough hands on experience. Even once we graduate we can always take the time to have our colleagues teach things we feel we need more help with.

 

[Chibucks15]

I agree with all the above. Anatomy was hell but COVID keeping y'all from grinding through school side by side with others and working with your hands is a part of your "medical school experience" you can't replace virtually. And having worked so hard to get to where you are only to do Zoom learning is anticlimactic to say the least. Hang in there and don't worry about not getting enough hands on experience. Even once we graduate we can always take the time to have our colleagues teach things we feel we need more help with.

The majority of medical students treat the first two years as “online” anyway Even before COVID. Med school is vastly different from undergrad. There’s not really a med school “experience” to write home about. You just sit and study for hours and hours haha for the preclinical years it really isn’t different

 

[Alkaidius]

The majority of medical students treat the first two years as “online” anyway Even before COVID. Med school is vastly different from undergrad. There’s not really a med school “experience” to write home about. You just sit and study for hours and hours haha for the preclinical years it really isn’t different

I was always looking forward to all those clinical skills lectures, OSCEs, simulations, etc. But my God, how the attitude towards those changes. They become treated with about as much contempt as wellness lectures, and all you’re wanting to do is go home and study for tests cause padding those numbers is all that actually gets you anywhere. Oh you’re able to intubate with your eyes closed? Lol, good for you. *taps at spacebar religously*

 

[Chibucks15]

I was always looking forward to all those clinical skills lectures, OSCEs, simulations, etc. But my God, how the attitude towards those changes. They become treated with about as much contempt as wellness lectures, and all you’re wanting to do is go home and study for tests cause padding those numbers is all that actually gets you anywhere. Oh you’re able to intubate with your eyes closed? Lol, good for you. *taps at spacebar religously*

First off, I hate anki as much as anyone but good generalization! I am the opposite of wanting to go home and study all the time if you’ve ever see me on here.

OSCEs and clinical skills lectures mean absolutely nothing and you will see that when you’re actually out there. But it’s great that you like those lectures! Medical education is majority individual so more power to you. But you intubating/lumbar puncture/ place an IV on a plastic mannequin, Really isn’t much practice besides having you know the steps. Not meaning to call you out at all it’s just how it is.

Just think it’s absurd that people are actually complaining about a minuscule change that barely affects your education compared to other classes.

 

[Alkaidius]

First off, I hate anki as much as anyone but good generalization! I am the opposite of wanting to go home and study all the time if you’ve ever see me on here.

OSCEs and clinical skills lectures mean absolutely nothing and you will see that when you’re actually out there. But it’s great that you like those lectures! Medical education is majority individual so more power to you. But you intubating/lumbar puncture/ place an IV on a plastic mannequin, Really isn’t much practice besides having you know the steps. Not meaning to call you out at all it’s just how it is.

Just think it’s absurd that people are actually complaining about a minuscule change that barely affects your education compared to other classes.

Oh no yeah I agree! It doesn’t change much. I was referring to myself becoming a spacebar addict after getting over the googly-eyed phase. My point was that I feel they should be more useful but aren’t. And I was disappointed in that fact in pre-clinicals. It’s the kind of rose-tinted stuff we’re shown on pictures of med students having fun in medical school that’s just shy of being a blatant lie lol. The system just doesn’t reward getting that kind of practice in anymore (maybe it never did?). It’s reliant on you cramming all the practical skills at the last minute in 3rd/4th year or, worst case, residency.