Cramming for RISE!!!!!!!!!!!

[KeratinPearls]

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I plan to do some cramming for the RISE.

AP I plan to read Leftkowich and CP Chapters in the Clinical Compendium for the rotations I've done. I need something very high yield but short and concise. How about Osler?

Good idea?

 

[britthumme]

There are no consequences to the RISE at my program. I just take it without studying to see where I stand. If you cram, that's mostly fleeting knowledge, so you won't know your baseline before you gear up in 4th year for boards.

I study best with questions. Osler and now the Companion (goes with CP Compendium). I wasn't impressed with Lefkowitz, though everyone uses it.

I've heard of there are programs "out-there" that penalize residents (probation...) for doing poorly on the RISE.

 

[HbyHA]

no consequences here, either. we use the information to see if the residents are progressing from year to year and to gauge ourselves to the rest of the resident population.

don't waste your time studying, unless you happen to be at one of those programs that penalize you for doing poorly!

 

[Gyric]

Are you serious?
The RISE is not hard. Cram for the boards.

 

[listeriaismfb]

I would not cram for RISE.

RISE tells you (& your PD) what your strengths & weakness are - this is valuable information since it can guide your future efforts. This ultimately results in better utilization of your time.

 

[GeoLeoX]

I'm going to get on the same boat as most others who have posted and recommend against cramming for the RISE. There are a number of reasons:

1. Why? What benefit does one receive for doing well on the RISE? If you have a good score does that mean that you know a lot about pathology or that you have just stuffed your head full of trivia to be regurgitated on an exam?

2. By NOT studying for the exam you are giving yourself and your program director an indication of where you and the program are toward achieving your goals. Don't skew the results with short-term recall. Besides, if you are one of those people who does poorly and your program is one of those that penalizes, perhaps it's for the better and you would be well-served to be studying a small amount each day rather than a large amount just before the exam.

3. While I have found the AP portion of the RISE to be similar in scope and difficulty as the boards (with the glaring overemphasis on forensic pathology on the RISE, however), the CP portion of the RISE is way out there and has little in common with the boards.

Like any investment - financial, personal, physical - incremental regular training provides longer-lasting and further-reaching benefits than intense short-term training.

mis dos centavos.

 

[caffeinegirl]

If you're a first year resident PLEASE DO NOT STUDY for this exam. Go there cold, and do the best you can. Just flat out guess, or just hit "C" if you have no clue.

The fact is that as others have said, the RISE is to track progress. As a first year resident, you want to start AT THE BOTTOM, so that you can show improvement through the years. If you study your butt off, get a high score, and then don't improve the next year, it looks worse than actually starting low and doing better and better in the years to come.

Study for Boards, and the RISE that comes up before the Boards will give you at least an idea of what topics you still need to work on.

SO FIRST YEAR RESIDENTS...DO NOT STUDY FOR THE RISE!!!

 

[Pathwrath]

Whenever you feel inclined to go the extra mile during residency, review more slides. Push glass and train your eyes. See interesting stuff.

Not more **** research for attendings. Not more exam preparation.

 

[pathstudent]

I wouldn't discourage anyone from studying for RISE or studying for any reason for that matter. Every time you go through it you pick up a little.

 

[path28]

Agree with pathstudent, I wouldn't discourage studying for RISE altogether. I do think cramming the night before doesn't make much sense as that would be all short-term memory which you'd lose. Personally I find the RISE good "extra" motivation for reviewing material as the year goes along and really making sure it is cementing in my head. The more time you spend with material and the more time you see it, the better it's going to be for boards, in my personal opinion. That's how it's always worked for me at least.

 

[KeratinPearls]

thanks for the advice everyone.

I have another question...in regards to focused studying for AP boards, what would you all recommend? I was thinking of using Osler for AP boards throughout my residency. Do you think that's a good idea or is it too superficial? Hopefully, going through it multiple times before I take the test will help me tremendously.

BTW, it seems like most in my program use Essentials by Bostwick for AP.

 

[BamaAlum]

Whenever you feel inclined to go the extra mile during residency, review more slides. Push glass and train your eyes. See interesting stuff.

Not more **** research for attendings. Not more exam preparation.

Advice of the year in my opinion....

 

[Patrick O]

"I study best with questions. Osler and now the Companion (goes with CP Compendium). I wasn't impressed with Lefkowitz, though everyone uses it."

Whats you beef with Lefkowitz?... I'm doing some of the questions right now..... aside from the occasional crappy photo, I don't think its that bad....

And, To add my two cents on the whole RISE topic...for the love of everything good in this world don't study for that exam..... not as a first... second.... or even third year..... I promise that unless you are a ***** or perhaps in a program that completely segregates AP and CP or in a crappy program, you WILL improve your score throughout your training.

Also.... sure, in an ideal world, studying osler or other board review books over and over during the course of 4 years of residency would be awesome prep for certification ...even better yet you could read henry and rosai cover to cover (I'm joking....but I am sure there are people out there that have done this).... but you also need have a life and you will likely (should) be busy with service work, research and other duties (like the joy of being a chief resident)...

for the uber ambitious folks (gunners) out there maybe this could work ... (but not I)

also take note that many of the CP questions for the board exam are totally esoteric and aren't even in those board review books...

 

[LADoc00]

Whenever you feel inclined to go the extra mile during residency, review more slides. Push glass and train your eyes. See interesting stuff.

Not more **** research for attendings. Not more exam preparation.

Clutch advice and it made me LOL so loud dribbled my coffee.

 

[deschutes]

Whenever you feel inclined to go the extra mile during residency, review more slides. Push glass and train your eyes. See interesting stuff.

Not more **** research for attendings. Not more exam preparation.

I would agree, except that in this day and age if you're a straight MD from a mid-tier program and don't do research, you're pretty much sunk when it comes to applying to top-tier fellowships. Face it, on a CV there's few other ways of proving aptitude apart from pubs/presentations.

The glass-pushing "extra mile" in residency just has to be done in tandem with it, because the only time you're asked how many surgicals you looked at is when you put in your application for AP boards.

 

[Pathwrath]

I know you guys are under tremendous pressure--manufactured, by the way, by your pathology leaders--to squander your brief general surgical training on research to secure that string of boutique fellowships.

So be it, but keep in mind that someday this period in your life will be over and you will be paid to diagnose disease. For your job and your patients' sake, please keep the big picture in mind. There's a reason those recent CAP questionnaires keep showing pathology groups are reluctant to hire grads fresh out of training, and it isn't because they are jealous of your youthful good looks.

 

[deschutes]

Well, the way I see it, pathology groups are reluctant to hire grads fresh out of training due to lack of experience/proficiency. Therefore residents are trying to make up for that lack of experience and improving their attractiveness by doing fellowships. How to get a fellowship that provides good training, connections, and isn't just another year of residency? Do research to go to meetings for free, do away rotations and network. Fluff up the CV.

Does it sound like I'm trying to have the last word? That's not really my point. I'd love to be able to kaizen my service workflow, review histories, look at glass, order stains, hammer out reports and call my clinicians back in a timely manner. I'd love to provide the best specimen management and the best patient care I possibly can. Thing is, I'm convinced the people who are going to hire me are not going to notice. The people who are going to hire me (who I want to be hired by) can't see that effort. They won't know that I exist if I do solely that.

I daresay like most people on here, I am just looking for answers. I want to know how I can prove competence and that I "get it" when it comes to the bigger picture. I could argue that I am doing a fellowship for the sake of my patients because while I think I'm ready for a year on a high-volume high-intensity surg path service, I don't think I'm ready for independent AP practice at the level of competence that I want to be at. I don't know how to achieve the necessary experience otherwise.

So work smart, is what I tell my junior residents who are serious about making a go of things.

I know you guys are under tremendous pressure--manufactured, by the way, by your pathology leaders--to squander your brief general surgical training on research to secure that string of boutique fellowships.

So be it, but keep in mind that someday this period in your life will be over and you will be paid to diagnose disease. For your job and your patients' sake, please keep the big picture in mind. There's a reason those recent CAP questionnaires keep showing pathology groups are reluctant to hire grads fresh out of training, and it isn't because they are jealous of your youthful good looks.

 

[QuietSylph]

I'd love to be able to kaizen my service workflow, review histories, look at glass, order stains, hammer out reports and call my clinicians back in a timely manner. I'd love to provide the best specimen management and the best patient care I possibly can. Thing is, I'm convinced the people who are going to hire me are not going to notice. The people who are going to hire me (who I want to be hired by) can't see that effort. They won't know that I exist if I do solely that.

This. Being a great diagnostician who does a fabulous job on every rotation won't land you a primo fellowship. Publishing research will.

 

[KeratinPearls]

This. Being a great diagnostician who does a fabulous job on every rotation won't land you a primo fellowship. Publishing research will.

I've seen ppl with connections and superior ass kissing skills get fellowship spots without having to do any research. Kinda puts all the hard work I've put into research to shame.

 

[deschutes]

Are you saying ass-kissing isn't hard work?

I've seen ppl with connections and superior ass kissing skills get fellowship spots without having to do any research. Kinda puts all the hard work I've put into research to shame.

 

[VickyPath]

Are you saying ass-kissing isn't hard work?

ha ha

 

[listeriaismfb]

Are you saying ass-kissing isn't hard work?

I'd say brown-nosing is the hardest work. I think it's the eqivalent of whoring yourself out.

If you do something to just to please other people then you are being dishonest & unfair to yourself. There's an opportunity cost involved in taking on crap you don't care about.

 

[deschutes]

Oh absolutely. But there are very few people in the world single-minded enough to do something just for one reason and one reason alone. Research projects are just means to a lot of ends.

Ass-kissing is a terrific skill to have though. But since I don't particularly like the taste of ass, I'm not terribly skillful at it. And thus are research projects fueled.

If you do something to just to please other people then you are being dishonest & unfair to yourself. There's an opportunity cost involved in taking on crap you don't care about.

 

[2121115]

Whenever you feel inclined to go the extra mile during residency, review more slides. Push glass and train your eyes. See interesting stuff.

Not more **** research for attendings. Not more exam preparation.

The tension here is between what we do in pathology training and what we do in real pathology practice. We spend so much time focusing on stuff that we will never do or has no real practical point unless you have an academic career planned.

I appreciate the tension between having to do crap meaningless research for attendings to get in their good graces for letters/rec's for jobs/fellowships and concentrating on looking at slides and getting good at day to day pathology. Try to kill 2 birds with one stone. I recommend focusing research projects on things that require you to look at lots of slides, i.e. reviewing 300 cases of a particular type of tumor to compare different characteristics about it or something along those lines. Well, maybe not exactly that, but you get the idea. Make you research time pay off.