Creating a Narrative

[Psyched*Out]

On this forum, I always see the phrases "mission fit" and "narrative" in reference to an application. Given the amount of times it is said, it certainly must be a crucial part of an application, but I still struggle to really understand what it means and how you can achieve it.

I've been thinking about activities I'd like to participate in and as opposed to doing scattered activities that don't relate very much, I wanted to try and pursue activities throughout the next 3 years that are tethered to Islam, my religion. I like neuroscience and psychology and mainly want to get into psychiatry in an attempt to reduce stigma regarding mental health in the Muslim community and provide an Islamic psychiatrist in my community that has lacked one for decades. My question is, how can I convey that through my activities over the next few years of undergrad and does this interest need to be shown in all types of activities I do (shadowing, non clinical work, research, etc)?

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[Sea Of The Leaf]

I'm not an admission expert, but almost all of the compliments I received from admission teams post-acceptances basically narrowed down to them being able to see I was the same person in my personal statement, activities, secondaries, and interviews. It made sense that the person who wrote the PS also did the activities he did and presented himself the way he did in his interviews. That is what I considered narrative when writing my apps and prepping for interviews.

My focus has always been on helping what I believe to be marginalized groups (POC, impoverished, women). That is my "mission." Based off of that, I only applied to schools who heavily valued diversity and volunteerism. This was my "mission fit" for the schools. I looked for schools that were willing to have a diversity statement, made it a priority to have a diverse cohort, or even being okay with mentioning social justice related topics publicly or on social media (BLM, LGBTQ+, abortion rights, etc.). Applying to research focused schools or schools with more conservative values would have just been a waste. I'm not who they're looking for and they're not somewhere I'd want to be. We'd be a bad "mission fit." I can't be for everyone, so I was just me and applied to schools who would like that person.

The easiest way to see my "narrative" was through my application. You could connect activities in ways that made sense. Through my volunteering at a hospital (activity 1) in a POC-dense area, I met a women who was a victim of domestic violence with children. After that meeting I started collecting clothing every year for children in shelters displaced by domestic violence (activity 2). I also won a volunteer award at that hospital (activity 3) and I became a person of confidence that they let me train other volunteers (activity 4). I also ended up shadowing a physician in that hospital's ER who wrote me a LOR (activity 5 and LOR). One of my PS anecdotes was also taken from an experience in that hospital.

...so from that one activity of volunteering at a hospital, I basically filled in a third of my whole application. I showed that I was given a role and grew from it, all while also branching out on my own, based on my experiences. I did something similar with my passion for helping undereducated children (tutoring, volunteering, developing curriculum, summer camp counselor, looking for scholarships) and with that I basically just gave you 5 more activities that were all correlated and the rest of my PS. Each one of those activities either led to or created another activity. My last 5 activities were hobbies, research, and work.

I'll give my final non-expert opinion here, and would love for some of the more professional members of this site to chime in, but for me, the "narrative" tells these schools who you are and who they expect to meet. It is done through your app, and the more it makes sense and flows together, the more confident they can be that you are who you say you are. It defines your "mission" in medicine. If your mission and the mission of the school match, you have a good "mission fit" and will have much more success applying to those schools over ones that value other aspects of medicine and society.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Yep, @Sea Of The Leaf hit the point very well.

We want to get a sense of who you are, what motivates your purpose to be a physician, how you inspire your patients and peers, and that you have the resilience, dependability, and service orientation to make it in medical education.

When you apply to residency, they will look for the same coherent story, albeit with even more focus on ensuring you are the right person who can fit in their program.

I've been thinking about activities I'd like to participate in and as opposed to doing scattered activities that don't relate very much, I wanted to try and pursue activities throughout the next 3 years that are tethered to Islam, my religion. I like neuroscience and psychology and mainly want to get into psychiatry in an attempt to reduce stigma regarding mental health in the Muslim community and provide an Islamic psychiatrist in my community that has lacked one for decades. My question is, how can I convey that through my activities over the next few years of undergrad and does this interest need to be shown in all types of activities I do (shadowing, non clinical work, research, etc)?

If you are a first-year student (which you indicate), then you need to show how you chose your undergrad program and activities to feed your curiosity to understand why Muslim psychiatrists are in need. Is there a network or local organization of psychiatrists that you have been able to connect to? Have you shadowed at least one Muslim psychiatrist or clinical psychologist (also just as important)? What programs have you done to address general mental health challenges, especially for those displaced by conflict? Show me that you have the innate curiosity and determination to learn about these issues to become an advocate where getting a medical education vs. a PsyD makes sense.

 

[Psyched*Out]

I'm not an admission expert, but almost all of the compliments I received from admission teams post-acceptances basically narrowed down to them being able to see I was the same person in my personal statement, activities, secondaries, and interviews. It made sense that the person who wrote the PS also did the activities he did and presented himself the way he did in his interviews. That is what I considered narrative when writing my apps and prepping for interviews.

My focus has always been on helping what I believe to be marginalized groups (POC, impoverished, women). That is my "mission." Based off of that, I only applied to schools who heavily valued diversity and volunteerism. This was my "mission fit" for the schools. I looked for schools that were willing to have a diversity statement, made it a priority to have a diverse cohort, or even being okay with mentioning social justice related topics publicly or on social media (BLM, LGBTQ+, abortion rights, etc.). Applying to research focused schools or schools with more conservative values would have just been a waste. I'm not who they're looking for and they're not somewhere I'd want to be. We'd be a bad "mission fit." I can't be for everyone, so I was just me and applied to schools who would like that person.

The easiest way to see my "narrative" was through my application. You could connect activities in ways that made sense. Through my volunteering at a hospital (activity 1) in a POC-dense area, I met a women who was a victim of domestic violence with children. After that meeting I started collecting clothing every year for children in shelters displaced by domestic violence (activity 2). I also won a volunteer award at that hospital (activity 3) and I became a person of confidence that they let me train other volunteers (activity 4). I also ended up shadowing a physician in that hospital's ER who wrote me a LOR (activity 5 and LOR). One of my PS anecdotes was also taken from an experience in that hospital.

...so from that one activity of volunteering at a hospital, I basically filled in a third of my whole application. I showed that I was given a role and grew from it, all while also branching out on my own, based on my experiences. I did something similar with my passion for helping undereducated children (tutoring, volunteering, developing curriculum, summer camp counselor, looking for scholarships) and with that I basically just gave you 5 more activities that were all correlated and the rest of my PS. Each one of those activities either led to or created another activity. My last 5 activities were hobbies, research, and work.

I'll give my final non-expert opinion here, and would love for some of the more professional members of this site to chime in, but for me, the "narrative" tells these schools who you are and who they expect to meet. It is done through your app, and the more it makes sense and flows together, the more confident they can be that you are who you say you are. It defines your "mission" in medicine. If your mission and the mission of the school match, you have a good "mission fit" and will have much more success applying to those schools over ones that value other aspects of medicine and society.

Thank you for the very thorough response. This definitely helps clear up some querries for me.

 

[Psyched*Out]

Yep, @Sea Of The Leaf hit the point very well.

We want to get a sense of who you are, what motivates your purpose to be a physician, how you inspire your patients and peers, and that you have the resilience, dependability, and service orientation to make it in medical education.

When you apply to residency, they will look for the same coherent story, albeit with even more focus on ensuring you are the right person who can fit in their program.


If you are a first-year student (which you indicate), then you need to show how you chose your undergrad program and activities to feed your curiosity to understand why Muslim psychiatrists are in need. Is there a network or local organization of psychiatrists that you have been able to connect to? Have you shadowed at least one Muslim psychiatrist or clinical psychologist (also just as important)? What programs have you done to address general mental health challenges, especially for those displaced by conflict? Show me that you have the innate curiosity and determination to learn about these issues to become an advocate where getting a medical education vs. a PsyD makes sense.

Well the issue for me is it's hard to show that innate curiousity because there are no Muslim psychiatrists or psychologists in the area I live in, and therefore there is nobody for me to shadow. That lack of presence is the reason I want to get into psychiatry. I can try connecting with Muslim psychiatrists elsewhere though virtually. As for showing my interest in the Muslim community as a whole, I've been setting up events and doing food drives at my mosque for multiple years now and also am joining the MSA chapter at my university to further show that commitment to faith. Where I'm confused is how I can tie mental health to aforementioned work because while I know I'm interested in advocating for Islamic individual's mental health and fighting the stigma that exists against it in the community, I don't know how to physically show that interest.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Well the issue for me is it's hard to show that innate curiousity because there are no Muslim psychiatrists or psychologists in the area I live in, and therefore there is nobody for me to shadow. That lack of presence is the reason I want to get into psychiatry. I can try connecting with Muslim psychiatrists elsewhere though virtually. As for showing my interest in the Muslim community as a whole, I've been setting up events and doing food drives at my mosque for multiple years now and also am joining the MSA chapter at my university to further show that commitment to faith. Where I'm confused is how I can tie mental health to aforementioned work because while I know I'm interested in advocating for Islamic individual's mental health and fighting the stigma that exists against it in the community, I don't know how to physically show that interest.

Where are you located?

I agree you can only do what you can do with what you have. Yes, you may have to network virtually (which is better than what was available before the internet).

The question I have is why you want to go through all the rest of medical education if you are really interested in addressing mental health especially with the Muslim community. You can be a clinical psychologist, which is a more direct route to what you want to do.

Check out

Muslim Association for Psychological Services

www.mapsnetwork.org

Homepage - Institute for Muslim Mental Health

Homepage - Promoting Muslim Americans' Mental Health Through Research, Resource Development, Training & Advocacy

muslimmentalhealth.com

American Muslim Health Professionals: A Vital Community

Discover the contributions of American Muslim Health Professionals to healthcare and community well-being.

amhp.us

Also look up the American Muslim Medical Student Association and network with students who are part of the organization at the schools of interest that overlap with your wishlist.

 

[Psyched*Out]

Where are you located?

I agree you can only do what you can do with what you have. Yes, you may have to network virtually (which is better than what was available before the internet).

The question I have is why you want to go through all the rest of medical education if you are really interested in addressing mental health especially with the Muslim community. You can be a clinical psychologist, which is a more direct route to what you want to do.

Check out

Muslim Association for Psychological Services

www.mapsnetwork.org

Homepage - Institute for Muslim Mental Health

Homepage - Promoting Muslim Americans' Mental Health Through Research, Resource Development, Training & Advocacy

muslimmentalhealth.com

American Muslim Health Professionals: A Vital Community

Discover the contributions of American Muslim Health Professionals to healthcare and community well-being.

amhp.us

Also look up the American Muslim Medical Student Association and network with students who are part of the organization at the schools of interest that overlap with your wishlist.

My reasoning for wanting to be a psychiatrist over a clinical psychologist are mainly that I want to be able to prescribe medication, which satisfies my liking for pharmacology, and by becoming a psychiatrist, I go through medical school and can achieve greater medical knowledge in general. If I were asked why MD over PsyD in a med school interview, that's what I would say, but is that compelling enough?

 

[LindaAccepted]

On this forum, I always see the phrases "mission fit" and "narrative" in reference to an application. Given the amount of times it is said, it certainly must be a crucial part of an application, but I still struggle to really understand what it means and how you can achieve it.

I've been thinking about activities I'd like to participate in and as opposed to doing scattered activities that don't relate very much, I wanted to try and pursue activities throughout the next 3 years that are tethered to Islam, my religion. I like neuroscience and psychology and mainly want to get into psychiatry in an attempt to reduce stigma regarding mental health in the Muslim community and provide an Islamic psychiatrist in my community that has lacked one for decades. My question is, how can I convey that through my activities over the next few years of undergrad and does this interest need to be shown in all types of activities I do (shadowing, non clinical work, research, etc)?

It seems to me like you have the foundation of your narrative in what you wrote . You are a committed and active, practicing Moslem, and you see a need for psychiatrists in your community and there are none (or very few). You don't have to shadow a Moslem psychiatrist. Your commitment as a Moslem will show up in your activities. Working in a mental health clinic even if not one geared to Moslems will show that you know what psychiatry is and may give your more motivation and insight into why your community needs more Moslem psychiatrists. You may find yourself working with non-Moslem patients too and need to be able to work outside your community as well.

And of course you can check out the resources that @Mr.Smile12 provided.

 

[Psyched*Out]

I would like to argue here, you are trying to 'force' an activity to get everything connected together into this 1 activity. Personally, I wouldn't encourage that. Instead, let things come naturally. In your case, you don't need to find ONLY a Muslim medical professional to shadow. Any medical professional that allows you to shadow, take the offer graciously.

You never know, taking the opportunities in front of you could have a butterfly effect, and your story and mission in life could change. Don't have a fixed mindset 🙂



I am also getting the vibes that you are doing activities for the sake of showing a narrative to medical schools. Don't do things to show your commitment for a certain cause, rather do them only because you genuinely like to do them, and through that your story will come in and tie everything together naturally 😉

I definitely do have an interest in what I do and a lot of this stuff like the food pantry or joining MSA has been in the works for years before I ever considered med school, but I do agree that I am now taking that interest and making everything I do tethered towards an eventual application which is not right. Thanks for the input- I feel like looking through SDN and r/premed and observing the competitive nature of getting into med school has made me feel like I need to shift everything I do towards making a strong application and I probably do need to take a step back.

 

[Psyched*Out]

@Mr.Smile12 I've really been pondering your question about why not clinical psych over psychiatry and frankly I wanted to get your opinion on whether the reasons I posted about above (wanting to prescribe medication, more medical knowledge, etc) are that great. They feel generic and its making me question myself now. If it means anything, I am also interested in potentially pursuing a neuropsychiatry specialty because I do quite like neurology too and I've shadowed neurologists/neurosurgeons for 50+ hours, but frankly I'm assuming the question of why not clinical psych is something that is going to come up again later in my life and I don't know if I can answer that question well right now.

 

[LizzyM]

You've shadowed neurologists and neurosurgeons; now shadow psychiatrists and clinical psychologists to get a bigger picture of the various roles.

As an aside, did you know that clinical psychologists can prescribe medications in Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Louisiana and New Mexico? (Illinois might be the only one of the five with a sizable population of Muslims if that is important to you.)

 

[Psyched*Out]

You've shadowed neurologists and neurosurgeons; now shadow psychiatrists and clinical psychologists to get a bigger picture of the various roles.

As an aside, did you know that clinical psychologists can prescribe medications in Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Louisiana and New Mexico? (Illinois might be the only one of the five with a sizable population of Muslims if that is important to you.)

I've tried shadowing psychiatrists and a clinical psychologist for over a year now, but I've had no luck as they don't seem to want a student intruding on personal conversations that are had in the field between patient and physician. I'll continue trying, but my major concern is what if I genuinely never end up being able to shadow one despite my interest. I think I may be able to get time with a clinical psychologist soon though as I have that in the works, but no luck with psychiatrists.

As for your second point, I did know that CPs can prescribe medications in those areas, but frankly I quickly disregarded that because none of those places are areas I'd like to serve later in life or settle down in.

 

[LizzyM]

Have you tried being in touch with psychiatrists that offer therapy in group settings? A group might be more open to having an observer than patients in one-on-one sessions. Another idea would be inpatient settings where psychiatrists are reviewing medical records., participating in team meetings and writing orders in addition to talking with patients and families.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Look, if you want the MD/DO, you have to shadow other physicians including primary care. You won't be focused on just psychiatry in medical school. You should work and shadow in other in-patient settings. As a med trainee, you would spend much more time in education in areas other than psych.

We have a PsyD forum here. Ask for suggestions or feedback.

 

[LizzyM]

Look, if you want the MD/DO, you have to shadow other physicians including primary care. You won't be focused on just psychiatry in medical school. You should work and shadow in other in-patient settings. As a med trainee, you would spend much more time in education in areas other than psych.

We have a PsyD forum here. Ask for suggestions or feedback.

Very true! And you will find that primary care providers are doing first line treatment for depression, anxiety and other psychiatric conditions.

 

[Psyched*Out]

Look, if you want the MD/DO, you have to shadow other physicians including primary care. You won't be focused on just psychiatry in medical school. You should work and shadow in other in-patient settings. As a med trainee, you would spend much more time in education in areas other than psych.

We have a PsyD forum here. Ask for suggestions or feedback.

Oh I didn’t mean to make this whole thing sound like I’ve only shadowed psych. I’ve shadowed primary care, nephrology, cardiology, vascular surgery, neurology, and neurosurgery so far, with another opportunity with an OB/GYN lined up. Apologies if I made it seem like I was super closed off or oblivious to other specialties.

 

[gyngyn]

Oh I didn’t mean to make this whole thing sound like I’ve only shadowed psych. I’ve shadowed primary care, nephrology, cardiology, vascular surgery, neurology, and neurosurgery so far, with another opportunity with an OB/GYN lined up. Apologies if I made it seem like I was super closed off or oblivious to other specialties.

40 hours is more than enough...

 

[Psyched*Out]

40 hours is more than enough...

No I realize that. I’m really just doing that because I have the opportunity to explore different specialties, so I thought why decline if I have nothing better to do. I don’t intend to do it for the hours, that just came as a bonus 🙂