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Criminal Background and other info on secondaries?

Discussion in 'Pre-Dental' started by dent-2002, Oct 16, 2002.

  1. dent-2002

    dent-2002 Junior Member
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    After reading about Slave4MD, i was wondering what information is asked about on a secondary. The AADSAS doesn't seem to ask too much personal info.

    1) What questions are asked?
    Are they about activities? Financial situation or parental
    background? I'm just curious.

    I've heard some ask for a photo?

    2) Do they ask about your background? Is it have you ever been arrested? or Have you ever been convicted of a felony?

    Thanks.
     
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  3. UBTom

    UBTom Class '04 official geezer
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    The secondaries vary from school to school... Back when I was applying in 2000, I didn't encounter many secondaries which asked for financial info. A few asked for parent info like their level of education and occupation and such.

    Most of the secondaries do indeed ask for a photo so the adcom officers can put a face to the name.

    Most secondaries I filed also did ask for background info like if you had a criminal record, and most if not all dental schools WILL do a background check on you through the FBI's NCIC database system, because one cannot be licensed to practice dentistry in most states (or even be allowed to perform dental procedures as a student under supervision) if there are felonies on one's record. As far as I know this also applies to med schools, pharmacy schools, and many other health professional institutions.
     
  4. Rhea

    Rhea New York University '07
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    What is this NCIC Database? And what kind of information does it have? Is this the same database that employer's access when they do background checks?
     
  5. UBTom

    UBTom Class '04 official geezer
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    Hi there Rhea,

    The National Crime Information Center at the FBI maintains a nationwide database of casefiles of major crimes, solved and unsolved, suspects, fugitives, parolees, convicted felons, their rap sheets, mugshots and fingerprints, and soon to include criminal DNA profiles as well. This is that national database that all law enforcement and government agencies go to for cross-referencing major criminal cases.

    Dental schools most of the time would submit background check requests through a state agency (in the case of New York State where I am, it would be the NYS Education Department that handles professional licensure and governance), which then runs the check through NCIC to ensure that the dental school applicant or licensure candidate doesn't have a felony record. Convicted felons are forbidden by law in New York State to practice dentistry, and I think this would be pretty standard in other states too.

    Since NYSED is a government agency, they are authorized to access NCIC for "official use." I don't know if private employers can actually access NCIC to do background checks though.

    HTH!
     
  6. Zurich5

    Zurich5 Membership Revoked
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    How do dental programs feel about minor consumptions and things of that nature?
     
  7. UBTom

    UBTom Class '04 official geezer
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    I think NCIC only keeps track of major crimes.. Not sure if they actually track minor misdemeanor-type scrapes with the law like being arrested at political protests or such, so I don't know if that kind of stuff would actually show up on a dental school background check.

    Don't quote me on that, of course.. :D
     
  8. slave4MD

    slave4MD Member
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    But don't you think that's kind of harsh?

    I mean, you're just asking to become a dentist for pete's sake and they do all this FBI check on you?

    And what's so bad about having a sniper as a dentist, as long as he knows that he's doing? He knows that if he wrongfully does something, he will get charged/sued/revoked of his license. Unlike doctors, it's not like you can have dentists who travel from hospital to hospital and start killing people.
     
  9. groundhog

    groundhog 1K Member
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    slave4MD is on to something. We occassionally hear stories of psychopathic licensed MD's which is not an afflication which seems to come upon those who practice dentistry.
     
  10. DesiDentist

    DesiDentist G. S. Khurana, DMD, MBA
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    Yes, misdemeanors and small offenses that result in arrest or conviction are recorded in the database. The offences that vary from state to state are minor offences, or the ones you commited under the age of 18, however not all states have the same rules.

    EVERY school, I mean EVERY school does a background check on you. So be forwarned, if you have been arrested or been convicted of a misdeamenor they will catch you. If it isn't when you matriculate, they will continue to do a search every year that you are at the institution. Trust me on this one and don't try to abuse the system.

    I remember that someone mentioned on this forum that one of their friends was on probation and lied on the application and is now a 3D at an ivy league school, well that is totally different. That is dealing with the school not the legal system. If you commited something that led to an arrest, warrant, search, misdeamenor, conviction, with the government you WILL be caught.

    If you are lying and get caught, the school will submit this information to ADA and that will result in dismissal of your application and you are no longer eligible to re-apply.

    I know that UPENN, Case, University of Washington, and many many other schools are very strict about this. So before you are tempted to lie, I think think about the consequences. Is it worth it?

    If you answer is, yes, you really need a reality check. If you commited an offence I would be direct with the schools and they may forgive you and grant you acceptance since you were honest and straight forward to them.

    DesiDentist
     
  11. conf88

    conf88 Member
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    But remember healthcare schools have a very strong drug policy. They do not forgive any drug related crimes. Also one involved in such crime won't be able to get even a penny in federal aid or loans.
     
  12. DesiDentist

    DesiDentist G. S. Khurana, DMD, MBA
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    conf88,

    that is very true. Drug abuse, even if you just were caught with a fake ID trying to buy alcohol can be an unforgivable offense by the dental schools.

    DesiDentist
     
  13. dent-2002

    dent-2002 Junior Member
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    The reason I brought this up is that I've been arrested before. So what I'm wondering, is whether or not the secondary says:

    1) Have you been convicted of a felony? or
    2) Have you ever been arrested?

    The thing is, I've been charged with a crime before, although I was not found guilty. I have no misdemeanors or felonies on my record, but I was charged with a crime.

    I went to Canada last year, (before 9/11) and at the border, they looked me up and saw my "rap" sheet and gave me a hard time for about 15 minutes before letting me into Canada.

    I spoke with a lawyer about it and he said that it should not show up on records. Only convictions do. I was asking about background checks and he said it wouldn't show up. He said the reason they saw it at the border crossing is that law enforcement can see everything.

    I did a background check on myself through the Virginia State Police and they said I have no record at all. I also did a check online ( I know, not too reliable) and nothing came up.

    The lawyer also told me that it's nothing and that law schools are filled with people with records. And that it didn't stop Dubya from becoming president.

    So can anyone tell me more exact details about secondaries, checks etc. I'm not really worried, but out of curiosity.
     
  14. dent-2002

    dent-2002 Junior Member
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    By the way Slavefor4MD, criminal offenses can be serious in health care professions.

    First of all, dentists can write prescriptions for all sorts of drugs. Ever see "Novocaine", the movie where Helena Bonham Carter uses Steve Martin to steal drugs to feed her addiction?

    Killing patients is a valid concern in health care. There are numerous cases of MD's in nursing homes titled "the Killer" for their treatment of the elderly.

    To suggest that dentists can't kill their patients shows that you don't know very much about the dental profession. People can have bad reactions to anesthetics and die in the chair all the time.

    Also ever see "The Dentist"? Alright, it's just a flick, but letting a sniper become a dentist would not be wise.
     
  15. Grubb

    Grubb New Member
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    Hello all,

    I currently work in law enforcement and may be able to shed some light on this subject. A real NCIC check is only available to members of law enforcement and includes a lot of otherwise secretive info. Including, but not limited to, driving records, any and all arrests, convictions (misdemeanor as well as felony), outstanding warrants, any protective orders/restraining orders, and any records that may have been sealed/expunged. They show where, when, and what the person was arrested for and charged or not charged with. I look at these every day and they can vary depending on what criteria you ask for. You can search single single or multiple states, or do a national search but you may miss some hits that would otherwise appear on the report if you specifically ask for info in a certain state.

    As for what dental or any other health-related school may use as a search engine, I do not know. I know that in my state, anyone outside law enforcement is not permitted/authorized to do official NCIC searches. Bottom line, schools most likely do not use the official NCIC database because it just reveals too much information that was never meant for anyone outside law enforcement.

    Hope this helps!

    Regards.
     
  16. savvysearch

    savvysearch Senior Member
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    With dentistry, there are people that exists that are crooks. You always hear stories on the news of dentists telling people they need cavities filled when they really don't need it. It's not just about killing, it's also about being fair and not ripping people off.
    But if you were found not guilty, I don't see a problem.

    By the way, has anyone seen "The strawberry blonde?" Its a movie where James Cagney gets a mail-order dental degree while in prison and eventually gets dental-revenge on the guy who stole his girl.
     
  17. jaiart

    jaiart Junior Member
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    Is this true, regarding the background check's? and the part about not being allowed to practice with a felony conviction? People don't want to give people that have made mistakes in the past a chance at a new life.
     
  18. DesiDentist

    DesiDentist G. S. Khurana, DMD, MBA
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    jaiart,

    I just finished UW secondary and there was two sheets requiring me to fill out about a criminal background check. When you are dealing with people, especially vunerable people it is imperative to the school and patient to have someone who abides by the law.

    People make mistakes, I understand, but some offenses are almost unforgivable. I know a couple of people who are in dental school now and had some trouble in their pasts, but they were upfront and illustrated to the Ad. com where they went wrong. They were forgiven. If you try to hide anything and if it comes up again you will be very sorry.

    Regards,


    DesiDentist
     
  19. groundhog

    groundhog 1K Member
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    Jaiart,
    Most folks who get in trouble with the law are given another chance to come up with a clean record. Trouble is many of those do not learn from their first mistake. Juvinile crime and punsihment records are usually sealed when one becomes an adult. First time adult gross misdemeanor charges can often be handled through a "diversion process." which cleans the record if the process is completed as ordered by the judge. Many first time felony charges can be plea bargained down to a gross misdemeanor. Even some adult felony convictions can be wiped clean if a person turns their life around and demonstrates good citizenship for a period of seven years or so after serving their sentence. Finally, crimminal conviction itself requires "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" but some folks still don't "get it" and go a different direction even when they get a break and manage to elude trial or are judged not guilty after actually committing their first offense.
     
  20. jaiart

    jaiart Junior Member
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    Are you saying that convicted felon's who have been expunged can practice dentistry? Or are you saying that there are no second chances? In my view it would make no sense for anyone to start down this road of study unless/until they get this straight.
     
  21. DesiDentist

    DesiDentist G. S. Khurana, DMD, MBA
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    jaiart,

    Yes, you must get your record expunged and you can start without any complicaitons. I honestly would try to clean your record before applying, because if you apply now then the schools will know and if you don't get in this year due to your record then retry then schools will still have that info available.

    I hope this helps,

    DesiDentist
     

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