Critical Care Salary

Started by ORL10
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ORL10

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Those of you JUST in critical care (not anesthesia or combined pulm) what do you think are the general rates for an intensivist positions, with obvious variance across US.

I ask because a department I was trying to workout a deal with for two positions (ED and CC) had thought 125K (bennies from ED portion) for 7, overnight 12s was reasonable. I thought this was below the average for a big midwest city??
 
As a hospitalist with 7on/7off schedule, 12hrs day shift, midwest town with a population of 60,000, i am pulling 250k ( no RVU's or bonuses but fixed salary). i see 16-18 pts per day with a closed ICU.

250k for an intensivist seems very low, unless you are seeing only 8-10 patients per day. Each critical care billing code (99291) generates around $218. so, i guess, even if you see only 10 patients a day, that amounts to 2180 per day, not to mention about other procedures. So, i guess, anything less than $2000 per day is underselling yourself. Remember, hospitalist doesn't generate more than $1500 per day by seeing 16-18 pts a day.
 
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Ok so on the low end is what I'm getting. Like JDH mentioned I saw avg critical care salary around 250K and so I thought it was in the "ballpark". Then I asked around and people said 125 for 7 12's was too low, especially for nights and should be closer to atleast ~175K.
 
ORL10 said:
Ok so on the low end is what I'm getting. Like JDH mentioned I saw avg critical care salary around 250K and so I thought it was in the "ballpark". Then I asked around and people said 125 for 7 12's was too low, especially for nights and should be closer to atleast ~175K.
Click to expand...

I'm going to toss out the obligatory "money isn't everything" statement now. I know I didn't take my highest paying offer for reasons that had nothing to do with the money and nothing to do with the hospital or work (I would have liked working there), but because one location seemed better for my family right now. There may be other consideration that are just was worthy as that extra 50k you think you should be making. Depending on how bad they want a guy with your skill set (filling an ER and night time intensivist spot with the SAME guy are probably high-five slam dunks kind of action for a lot of places) you may have some negotiation room, but I not sure you'll get to 175 if their opening offer is 125. Maybe try and split the difference (also see if you can get your hands on the MGMA salary data, hospitals are going to generally go off the median, and if you are under that median for your specialty, then I think you've got position that it will be hard for them to ignore).
 
jdh71 said:
Not bad scratch right there. Though, that's probably two weekends a month too. Ugh.
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That was usually 22-24 weeks a year depending on how they worked the vacation/cme time. Not ever place had rotating nights. A class mate of mine starte 15 shifts a month plus 4 weeks PTO/cme half of that was nights @ $375 plus wRVU productivity. Pure CC right now is making more than pulm. No one is sure what to do with a hybrid position because it's so very variable.
 
Hernandez said:
That was usually 22-24 weeks a year depending on how they worked the vacation/cme time. Not ever place had rotating nights. A class mate of mine starte 15 shifts a month plus 4 weeks PTO/cme half of that was nights @ $375 plus wRVU productivity. Pure CC right now is making more than pulm. No one is sure what to do with a hybrid position because it's so very variable.
Click to expand...

Must be a lot of regional variation I suppose. Everywhere I was looking was also wanting pulmonary with the critical care and paying more than that plus wrvu.
 
I'm confused. 125k for 7 12 hour night shifts a month?

So you will be ER and do your er thing... And then in ADDITION u will do 7, 12 hour shifts for an extra 125k?

If that's what u mean, then that is VERY good - especially for large city! I must be mis understanding.....
 
europeman said:
I'm confused. 125k for 7 12 hour night shifts a month?

So you will be ER and do your er thing... And then in ADDITION u will do 7, 12 hour shifts for an extra 125k?

If that's what u mean, then that is VERY good - especially for large city! I must be mis understanding.....
Click to expand...

If the going rate is 300k for 14/15 shifts per month of critical care, then doing HALF of that is at least 150k, and doing only nights should have some differential
 
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I don't think the going rate of full time critical care is 300k at most places. It's less
 
Sounds like a bad deal. If full time CC makes ~300 + benefits. Half time (covering nights, no less) without benefits should be closer to 175.
 
I had several offers this year for pure CCM in nice cities for 150/hr.. This works out to being 310-320K for 7 on 7 off + benefits. I heard of one paying 375.
 
Hernandez said:
It's only less in "desirable" cities. Before you sign a contract, I'd highly my suggest you get the mgma data, as you might be surprised by what you see. I can tell you pure pulm makes less than pure cc on the data.
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OP,

You're getting ripped off man. EM and Critical Care are both red hot right now and $125K for 1 week in an ICU is ridiculous. Take this information and go renegotiate....seriously.

From 2013 MGMA Physician Compensation and Production Survey

Critical Care: Intensivist
Mean $380,279
Std Deviation $122,313

25% percentile $300,504
Median $341,790
75% percentile $437,821
90% percentile $617,570

Emergency Medicine
Mean $318,794
Std Deviation $95,521

25% percentile $255,739
Median $306,682
75% percentile $368,969
90% percentile $447,073

Hospitalist: Internal Medicine
Mean $252,658
Std Deviation $80,106

25% percentile $211,393
Median $240,352
75% percentile $280,518
90% percentile $333,281

Pulmonary Medicine: General

Mean $357,844
Std Deviation $127,577

25% percentile $277,691
Median $359,650
75% percentile $423,615
90% percentile $501,107

Pulmonary Medicine: General and Critical Care

Mean $407,688
Std Deviation $140,728

25% percentile $302,192
Median $386,170
75% percentile $482,937
90% percentile $626,622
 
Last edited:
inspirationmd said:
From 2013 MGMA Physician Compensation and Production Survey

Critical Care: Intensivist
Mean $380,279
Std Deviation $122,313

25% percentile $300,504
Median $341,790
75% percentile $437,821
90% percentile $617,570

Hospitalist: Internal Medicine
Mean $252,658
Std Deviation $80,106

25% percentile $211,393
Median $240,352
75% percentile $280,518
90% percentile $333,281
Pulmonary Medicine: General

Mean $357,844
Std Deviation $127,577

25% percentile $277,691
Median $359,650
75% percentile $423,615
90% percentile $501,107

Pulmonary Medicine: General and Critical Care

Mean $407,688
Std Deviation $140,728

25% percentile $302,192
Median $386,170
75% percentile $482,937
90% percentile $626,622
Click to expand...

I know these are the last set of numbers I have seen for pulmonary and critical care.
 
I should re-phrase:

This is very good for a large city.

Big cities saturated with physicians (ie nyc, SF, LA, Miami) are notorious for paying less than less-desirable places.

Tks for the info though. Apparently I'm getting paid less than I thought!
 
Thanks for the info. The EM part pays about 190 for 8.5 shifts per month (10 hour shifts in academic residency program.) The critical care part is being negotiated currently, I'll let you know what we get.
 
If that's a big city then u are making more than the trauma surgeons who also do ICU! More money and less years of training. I should have done er!
 
ORL10 said:
Thanks for the info. The EM part pays about 190 for 8.5 shifts per month (10 hour shifts in academic residency program.) The critical care part is being negotiated currently, I'll let you know what we get.
Click to expand...


Nice EM component to the salary and a more than reasonable schedule from that end. Hope the Critical care negotiations go well.

Please do keep us updated on how it all shakes out. I've still got a few years left but I've already started looking into securing an EM and Critical Care job and talked to my hospital system. I would love to hear your thoughts on the market trends once you're finished setting up your position and what you are seeing in the different regions.
 
inspirationmd said:
OP,

You're getting ripped off man. EM and Critical Care are both red hot right now and $125K for 1 week in an ICU is ridiculous. Take this information and go renegotiate....seriously.

From 2013 MGMA Physician Compensation and Production Survey

Critical Care: Intensivist
Mean $380,279
Std Deviation $122,313

25% percentile $300,504
Median $341,790
75% percentile $437,821
90% percentile $617,570

Emergency Medicine
Mean $318,794
Std Deviation $95,521

25% percentile $255,739
Median $306,682
75% percentile $368,969
90% percentile $447,073

Hospitalist: Internal Medicine
Mean $252,658
Std Deviation $80,106

25% percentile $211,393
Median $240,352
75% percentile $280,518
90% percentile $333,281

Pulmonary Medicine: General

Mean $357,844
Std Deviation $127,577

25% percentile $277,691
Median $359,650
75% percentile $423,615
90% percentile $501,107

Pulmonary Medicine: General and Critical Care

Mean $407,688
Std Deviation $140,728

25% percentile $302,192
Median $386,170
75% percentile $482,937
90% percentile $626,622
Click to expand...

Im pretty sure those numbers are misquoted from the 2013 report
 
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inspirationmd said:
OP,

You're getting ripped off man. EM and Critical Care are both red hot right now and $125K for 1 week in an ICU is ridiculous. Take this information and go renegotiate....seriously.

From 2013 MGMA Physician Compensation and Production Survey

Critical Care: Intensivist
Mean $380,279
Std Deviation $122,313

25% percentile $300,504
Median $341,790
75% percentile $437,821
90% percentile $617,570

Emergency Medicine
Mean $318,794
Std Deviation $95,521

25% percentile $255,739
Median $306,682
75% percentile $368,969
90% percentile $447,073

Hospitalist: Internal Medicine
Mean $252,658
Std Deviation $80,106

25% percentile $211,393
Median $240,352
75% percentile $280,518
90% percentile $333,281

Pulmonary Medicine: General

Mean $357,844
Std Deviation $127,577

25% percentile $277,691
Median $359,650
75% percentile $423,615
90% percentile $501,107

Pulmonary Medicine: General and Critical Care

Mean $407,688
Std Deviation $140,728

25% percentile $302,192
Median $386,170
75% percentile $482,937
90% percentile $626,622
Click to expand...

Are benefits and performance bonuses included in these figures ?
 
DrAwesomo said:
In areas around NY, the number is 350-400k.
Click to expand...
W2 or all in compensation?

The other thing ppl have to realize with job offers is what retirement plans they offer. People often scoff at academic positions due to "low pay," but many of these offer up to 3 different retirement plans where you contribute tax deferred money. So, if you're making $350k at some private hospital where you can only contribute 18k and they match minimally, then you're only taking home maybe 220-230k tops in NY. However, if you're making $220k at an academic institution which provides some kind of pension fund, 403b, and 457 plans, then you're putting away 80-90k tax deferred, and your all in income will be like 190-200k. This is the importance of taxation...
 
DrAwesomo said:
In areas around NY, the number is 350-400k.
Click to expand...

That's too high to be close to NYC for some reason people want to be close or in NYC so much they are willing to work for pennies and be killing roaches and dealing with traffic in a tiny apartment the size of the shed where I store my lawn mower.
Been there, done that, never going back!

But in all seriousness, if you can get 350-400 around NYC it's a good deal
 
I always thought each critical care billing code 99291 generates 4.5 wRVU's and if see 12 patients, that's already more than 50 wRVU per day and do it for half an year, that's more than 9000 wRVU's for working 7 on and 7 off seeing 12 patients a day. I am not even counting on procedures.

But, the median wRVU is only around 4400. Am i missing something here ? Is it really hard to generate 9000 wRVU's working 7 on/7 off purely in ICU ?
 
nephrondoc said:
I always thought each critical care billing code 99291 generates 4.5 wRVU's and if see 12 patients, that's already more than 50 wRVU per day and do it for half an year, that's more than 9000 wRVU's for working 7 on and 7 off seeing 12 patients a day. I am not even counting on procedures.

But, the median wRVU is only around 4400. Am i missing something here ? Is it really hard to generate 9000 wRVU's working 7 on/7 off purely in ICU ?
Click to expand...

Median. Not mean.
 
bronx43 said:
These numbers are benefits included? Wow... much lower than I thought.
Click to expand...

How much do you think intensivists make? A TC of 380 is around 330 take home with benefits. Hospitalists make 180-200K for the same hours in my area. The only medicine speciality that pays significantly more is GI.
 
nycitygas said:
How much do you think intensivists make? A TC of 380 is around 330 take home with benefits. Hospitalists make 180-200K for the same hours in my area. The only medicine speciality that pays significantly more is GI.
Click to expand...
I guess finances in NYC are different. What kind of retirement packages do these $380k jobs offer? 50k for all in benefits? I guess they don't match too much on your 401k. Do they offer 403b or 457 plans?
 
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anbuitachi said:
Man only 150$ a hour? Im impressed that CC's hourly salary is so much lower than EMs..
Click to expand...

I would imagine it is higher than that. I am doing locums nocturnist work for 200/hr. No benefits obviously as its locum but I am not fellowship trained. Pure CC that is fellowship trained at a community hospital in my areas is paying 2300-2600/shift, plus benefits.
 
Bostonredsox said:
I would imagine it is higher than that. I am doing locums nocturnist work for 200/hr. No benefits obviously as its locum but I am not fellowship trained. Pure CC that is fellowship trained at a community hospital in my areas is paying 2300-2600/shift, plus benefits.
Click to expand...

Define shift. Are you talking that much for 7a-7p? How many beds and what kind of acuity? That pays better than my anesthesiologist locums side job.
 
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